The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[London Kev]

3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Any chance you access of the past 10 years? 

 

I only use their regular site, I don't know if they have that kind of information hidden somewhere, or in their Premium package.

Here's the link.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

Corral has better traits than Ridder if you ask me. I’d rather have a guy that runs a twitchy 4.7 with an excellent NFL arm than a guy that runs a 4.4 with a borderline/average NFL arm and questionable accuracy. Both took programs that hadn’t been good and won a lot, so you have to like that. 

 

Neither should be running much at the pro level.  If things breakdown, absolutely.  Otherwise they both project to be solid with shifting pockets and buying time against pressure.

 

Ridder is closer to the prototype QB physically than Corral.  Corral's size is closer to Taylor Heinicke, and there's a rumor he's less than 200 pounds.  I'm not questioning that Corral has more arm velocity.  But Corral is not Jay Cutler, and Ridder is better than you claim.  Ridder has a good arm, Corral has a better one.  Neither are excellent.  Malik Willis is the only QB in this class with excellent arm velocity.

 

As for accuracy, metrics show Corral is worse in deeper shots and they're about equivalent in intermediate and short.

 

Deeper shots of 20 or more Air Yards:

 

Air Yards in the Intermediate range:

 

Short range:

 

For the sake of this, let's also include stats while under pressure:

 

This was sorted by IQR, which was explained as:

IQR: Sports Info Solutions’ proprietary quarterback metric builds on the traditional Passer Rating formula by considering the value of a quarterback independent of results outside of the his control such as dropped passes, dropped interceptions, throwaways, etc.

 

Ridder is inconsistent but flashes quality mechanics when he gets into a rhythm.  It's something that seems fixable as he has reps where his footwork is what you want.  He's got the size, athleticism, no durability concerns, 10" hand size, and a good arm which adds the total package up to a plus prospect physically.

 

I think Ridder is the only QB in this class with hand size in the ideal range of 10".  Everyone else is 9-9.5", with Pickett at 8.25".  Although I don't believe we know Corral's hand size yet.  Given his smaller stature, it's possible it fits in with the rest of the QB class in the 9-9.5" range.

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Allen isn't coming back.  He's a restricted FA who they're going to let walk.  

 

There is a really goop chance Fitz just retires and goes on to have another 5 kids.  If he could have 8 while still playing, imagine what he could do when he could devote his entire energy to it?   

 

Most teams like to have 4 QBs in camp so why let Allen go?  I'm surprised anyone thinks Fitz will do anything but retire

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

There is no chance they are going to put TH out as the opening day starter.  Zero.  Zilch.  Zadda.  Nadda.  Not going to happen.

Injury to one of the QB's in preseason could easily open the door for TH to start. Say they sign Trubisky and he gets hurt. Hello TH as your starting Commanders QB. 

Also, if they only draft a rookie over getting a free agent or vet in a trade, I could see TH beating out any of the rookie QB's in this class. RR needs to win now and TH has already proven he can win games given enough support. 

I'd say there's a better chance than zero that we see TH out there again if circumstances warrant it. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I wonder who plays out more scenarios in their head where TH starts again, @kingdaddy or Taylor himself? 😂

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I'd put my money on Keim over Russini.   If I recall Standig hinted at the same thing, forgot how he said it, or someone else did -- I know someone else also said they made a swing at Rodgers, it wasn't just Keim.

 

Russini also said the Packers don't want to franchise D. Adams, days later of that we keep hearing that the Packers are going to franchise Adams.

I never cared much for her while she was a local reporter here.  Others really did.  I think she makes stuff up at times, or uses some really flimsy sources.  

 

I personally think it would be insane to think Ron didn't at least send a note to the Packers to say, "if you want to trade Rodgers, tell us the price, we'll pay it."  Of course, since he's said it on every interview he's done, I don't even know if he HAD to do that.  But I'm sure he did.  

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Steelers get a lot of their ideas from this board -- part of the reason why Tomlin never had a losing season. 

No, the reason he hasn't had a losing season is because he was educated at the absolute most distinguished collegiate powerhouse in the history of the world: The College of William and Mary.  Go Tribe.    

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

...this adds credence to the theory nobody in the QB class profiles as likely a franchise guy, so they're going with highest ceiling prospects.  Willis and Ridder being the only two with overall above average QB traits (physically).  Bridge QB + developing those traits is a plan that could net a franchise guy.  Unlikely, but there's a chance.

 

Not sure how Corral wouldn't be in there. IMO he's the 2nd most gifted in the class after Willis. Better runner than Ridder and IMO his arm strength is only a little bit behind Willis.

[Voice_of_Reason]

40 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

Most teams like to have 4 QBs in camp so why let Allen go?  I'm surprised anyone thinks Fitz will do anything but retire

He's not under contract so they would have to re-sign him.

 

My guess is they won't.  They will let him go, and they will bring in some camp arm to go along with the rookie, the new backup and TH. Then they'll put that guy on the practice squad.  

 

Also, I think they like him, and they're not going to keep Allen around if they KNOW he can't make the final roster.  UNLESS they think Allen could unseat TH for 3rd string, there's just no benefit to bringing him back. 

21 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I wonder who plays out more scenarios in their head where TH starts again, @kingdaddy or Taylor himself? 😂

I'm not going to dig it up, but there's no question it's @kingdaddy

 

In an interview with Nicki Jhabvala Taylor said something like, "I don't care if I'm a starter or backup, I just want to be in the league."

 

 

[Darth Tater]

20 hours ago, Mrshadow008 said:

I disagree w/ this to an extent most inside the league players/coaches/staff understand and pay attention to other stuff in the league way more than we do. Front office staff and coaching staff are mostly pretty well respected around the league. Players/ executives usually know pretty well what each roster offers. Key in point that Russ wouldn’t be opposed to coming here this year when he wasn’t last year. Another key point here is we’ve gotten to a point where numerous national analysts and nfl executives have said this roster is ready to go in a winnable division and that it just needs qb. If execs and analysts have noticed it players around league will have as well. 

Actually by a positive light I am referring more as a team that is a winner on the field. Last time we had a poor season and turned around to a consistent winner was going from 7-9 to 4 straight winning seasons (3 of 10 or more) was before many players parents born. They remember a team that has one mediocre year good enough to get to the playoff followed by suck or at least low-level mediocrity. I don't think TH is a top-half of the league QB. I was just saying that if a given poster thinks our roster is not top-half, THEY must believe that TH is. I am also saying that Washington is more just not a destination that players think of when asked as opposed to a no destination.

[Voice_of_Reason]

30 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Injury to one of the QB's in preseason could easily open the door for TH to start. Say they sign Trubisky and he gets hurt. Hello TH as your starting Commanders QB. 

Also, if they only draft a rookie over getting a free agent or vet in a trade, I could see TH beating out any of the rookie QB's in this class. RR needs to win now and TH has already proven he can win games given enough support.

If they sign Mitch and he gets hurt in pre-season, and they have drafted a rookie in the first round, then the rookie will start no matter what.  They will NOT trot TH back out on opening day.  OR they will go sign somebody else to start or make a trade to get another starter  if there is enough time left in camp.  There is literally no situation where TH starts opening day unless he goes Nancy Kerrigan on them in the locker room before the opener.  Even if it was 1 day sooner, they would have somebody else in to start.  

 

Taylor proved in the back half of the season unless they are playing a team which is completely out of it and looking to lose, he can't win games.  And even in the game against the Giants, he was bad.  

 

I know, I know, he beat Tom and Russ.  You put as much stock in the 4 game winning streak, where Gibson and the defense really led the way, as Bruce Allen did in the 6-3 start with Alex Smith.  Both were mirages.  You're seeing what you want to see.  Bruce saw what he wanted to see.  

 

TH played 1 good game against 1 good team: against Tampa.  That's the one really good game he played against a really good team.  His other good games came against a really bad Giants team in week 2, and not a very good Atlanta defense.  The rest was either average to bad.  He ended the season with the 31st QB Rating by PFF of 36 qualified QBs.

 

I really just don't understand how anybody at this point can't see the truth:  He would serve as an absolutely fantastic QB as long as he never has to play more than a half of football in relief.  Everything else, he just isn't good enough.  

 

30 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I'd say there's a better chance than zero that we see TH out there again if circumstances warrant it. 

Is there a chance?  Sure.  There's also a chance I could run into Peyton List on the way home and she could declare her undying love for me.  

 

The latter is more likely than TH starting the opener.  

 

Seeing TH play?  Well, we have used 3 or 4 QBs in each of the last 4 seasons.  So, if he's on the roster, most likely as a third stringer, yeah he COULD play.  

 

But then the season is over.  So I hope he doesn't.  

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, sjinhan said:

If we are going for that second tier bridge QB then i would be most interested in Winston.  Biggest upside QB out there that hasn’t accomplished anything lol.

 

Hes mental. I don't know if I would want a young person that I hope to grow into a professional around him. At least that's the impression I get I could be off base. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

Last time we had a poor season and turned around to a consistent winner was going from 7-9 to 4 straight winning seasons (3 of 10 or more) was before many players parents born

Wait, what? What season are you talking about?

 

They went 7-9 in 1988, and then 10-6, 10-6, 14-2, 9-7.  Is that the season you're referencing? 

 

Chase Young was born in 1999.  For Damn Sure his parents were alive in 1988.  Otherwise his parents would have been less than 10 when he was born.  Hell, if you were born in 1988, you would be 34 this year.  There probably a few players who were there.  

 

Even if you went back to 1980, They were 6-10 in 1980, Then 8-8 in 1981, 8-1 (strike shortened) in 1982, and then 14-2, 11-5, etc. 

 

Unless Chase Young's parents were 19 when he was born (very possible), they were alive in 1980 also.  I would fathom a guess almost all (Probably not ALL), I'm sure some of the rookies had younger parents) of the parents of our current team were alive in 1980.  

 

I get your point.  But I think you messed up your math a little bit...

[Darth Tater]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Wait, what? What season are you talking about?

 

They went 7-9 in 1988, and then 10-6, 10-6, 14-2, 9-7.  Is that the season you're referencing? 

 

Chase Young was born in 1999.  For Damn Sure his parents were alive in 1988.  Otherwise his parents would have been less than 10 when he was born.  Hell, if you were born in 1988, you would be 34 this year.  There probably a few players who were there.  

 

Even if you went back to 1980, They were 6-10 in 1980, Then 8-8 in 1981, 8-1 (strike shortened) in 1982, and then 14-2, 11-5, etc. 

 

Unless Chase Young's parents were 19 when he was born (very possible), they were alive in 1980 also.  I would fathom a guess almost all (Probably not ALL), I'm sure some of the rookies had younger parents) of the parents of our current team were alive in 1980.  

 

I get your point.  But I think you messed up your math a little bit...

Oops, I originally wrote the player was born and wanted to change that to before their parents had met.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

14 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Not sure how Corral wouldn't be in there. IMO he's the 2nd most gifted in the class after Willis. Better runner than Ridder and IMO his arm strength is only a little bit behind Willis.

 

Hmm, how about this type of break down?  I would not add this up to be an overall plus physical talent.  Physically, we could say it maybe all adds up to neutral.

 

Hand Size: Unknown

Height: -

Weight -

Durability: -
Athleticism: +

Speed: Neutral (not at + level for the NFL)

Arm Velocity: +

 

Corral has to change his running style in the Pro's, he's going to get obliterated against NFL speed/hitting.  He also runs in a way that won't draw flags from refs for violent hits.  Compare the above to Willis, who while having similar height, has better weight, durability, and speed.  I will add that Corral does have a variety of arm angles he throws from, which is normally good.  Except for whatever reason he can't throw on the run well, but maybe that's fixable?

 

The above is a bit crude, but that is the gist.  After that comes intangibles, processing defender leverage to the route post-snap, IDing coverage pre-snap, coverage rotations post-snap, offensive scheme versatility or limitations.  But I'd qualify those as separate from physical QB traits.

[mistertim]

16 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Hmm, how about this type of break down?  I would not add this up to be an overall plus physical talent.  Physically, we could say it maybe all adds up to neutral.

 

Hand Size: Unknown

Height: -

Weight -

Durability: -
Athleticism: +

Speed: Neutral (not at + level for the NFL)

Arm Velocity: +

 

Corral has to change his running style in the Pro's, he's going to get obliterated against NFL speed/hitting.  He also runs in a way that won't draw flags from refs for violent hits.  Compare the above to Willis, who while having similar height, has better weight, durability, and speed.  I will add that Corral does have a variety of arm angles he throws from, which is normally good.  Except for whatever reason he can't throw on the run well, but maybe that's fixable?

 

The above is a bit crude, but that is the gist.  After that comes intangibles, processing defender leverage to the route post-snap, IDing coverage pre-snap, coverage rotations post-snap, offensive scheme versatility or limitations.  But I'd qualify those as separate from physical QB traits.

 

Honestly I don't think we'll have any idea of his speed until he runs at the combine. I'd guess he's probably a close to a 4.5-4.6 guy from what I've seen. Certainly not as fast as Willis but I think it would probably qualify as close to NFL+

 

He also has some nice wiggle and cutting ability when he runs, unlike Howell for example who was mostly a power runner. But I agree that he'll probably need to adjust his running in the NFL, though some of that is scheme. There seemed to be a fair amount of designed A gap runs and I really don't want to see too much of that in the NFL, and we probably won't.

 

Also agree that he'll need to add a bit of weight. He's not a beanpole, but 6'1-6'2 205 is a bit thin. I don't think he necessarily needs to get up to 225-230 or anything, but adding 10 pounds or so would be a smart move and probably pretty obtainable with NFL conditioning.

 

Corral mostly seems to be under the radar at the moment, which makes sense because he couldn't play in the Senior Bowl. I think once the combine rolls around we'll probably start to hear more about him again.

[Anselmheifer]

30 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Hmm, how about this type of break down?  I would not add this up to be an overall plus physical talent.  Physically, we could say it maybe all adds up to neutral.

 

Hand Size: Unknown

Height: -

Weight -

Durability: -
Athleticism: +

Speed: Neutral (not at + level for the NFL)

Arm Velocity: +

 

 

There are no rumors about small hands. That will be neutral at least. He’s listed at 6’2”. I’d say his height is neutral. I don’t think he missed a bunch of games. No concussions. No surgery. He played through some injuries. And he’s tough. Id list that as neutral. Speed is definitely not neutral. He had plus speed for an NFL QB. Watch him run away from Alabama. 
 

I do agree that he is sleight of frame and will need to run less often in the NFL. 
 

I have questions about his ability to process and run an NFL offense. 

[bowhunter]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Honestly I don't think we'll have any idea of his speed until he runs at the combine. I'd guess he's probably a close to a 4.5-4.6 guy from what I've seen. Certainly not as fast as Willis but I think it would probably qualify as close to NFL+

 

He also has some nice wiggle and cutting ability when he runs, unlike Howell for example who was mostly a power runner. But I agree that he'll probably need to adjust his running in the NFL, though some of that is scheme. There seemed to be a fair amount of designed A gap runs and I really don't want to see too much of that in the NFL, and we probably won't.

 

Also agree that he'll need to add a bit of weight. He's not a beanpole, but 6'1-6'2 205 is a bit thin. I don't think he necessarily needs to get up to 225-230 or anything, but adding 10 pounds or so would be a smart move and probably pretty obtainable with NFL conditioning.

 

Corral mostly seems to be under the radar at the moment, which makes sense because he couldn't play in the Senior Bowl. I think once the combine rolls around we'll probably start to hear more about him again.

I'm thinking Corral will be there at #11 without a lot of angst and moves. No Senior bowl and now not throwing at the Combine may give enough teams pause just due to uncertainty. And btw, I'm just fine with that. As long as the FO is convinced that the ankle isn't an achilles heel, that should give him time to heal up, without pressure to produce immediately

[Skinsinparadise]

I actually have equal grades on Malik [Willis] and Kenny [Pickett],” McShay says. “I have Malik 20, Kenny 21, [Matt] Corral 25 overall. If I’m being honest, that is probably a little high just knowing that they always go higher, in terms of grade. But my point is, you would start at six with this year’s class.”

McShay calls Pickett a poor man’s Mac Jones (also, get ready for a lot of hand-size talk on the Pitt product), and agreed when I said I had heard Ole Miss’s Corral called a poor man’s Zach Wilson. As for Willis, McShay sees the former Liberty star as the one prospect in the group with the kind of untapped potential that might make someone believe there might be something there.

“Some guys really love Willis. Other guys think, ‘I'm getting Jalen Hurts, at best,’” McShay says. “I think he’s more athletic, a more dynamic athlete and he definitely has a stronger arm, but Hurts was more mature and won bigger games in bigger scenes. … Malik has the biggest upside, but there’s probably the lowest floor of all the guys.”

So, essentially, Willis needs someone to go all-in on and build an offense for him.

 

...Beyond Willis, Corral and Pickett, there is Cincinnati’s Desmond Ridder, North Carolina’s Sam Howell, and then a cliff. McShay says Nevada’s Carson Strong is the sixth amid the depth chart and carries serious mobility concerns, even when accounting for injuries last year. So … yeah, not a great year to be looking for a quarterback.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/02/28/mmqb-nfl-draft-outlook-aaron-rodgers-contract-combine

[Est.1974]

These QBs might have low rankings in comparison to previous drafts but I expect a team to jump into the top 4 to get one.

[Skinsinparadise]

Breer, who is Keim level almost accurate nationally

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/02/28/mmqb-nfl-draft-outlook-aaron-rodgers-contract-combine

 

Teams are, indeed, willing to deal for Deshaun Watson without full resolution of the 22 lawsuits filed against him. The biggest question is whether the Texans believe they can get fair value before such resolution comes about.

 

• Seahawks QB Russell Wilson has worked with his coaches in recent weeks as if he’s going to play in Seattle in 2022. We know the owner wants him there, but we still have yet to hear from Wilson specifically. What coach Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider say about their quarterback in Indy should be interesting.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, sjinhan said:

If we are going for that second tier bridge QB then i would be most interested in Winston.  Biggest upside QB out there that hasn’t accomplished anything lol.

I've brought this up before: He's coming off of an ACL tear, so he's not going to be able to fully participate in the off-season.  He should BEG to go back to Tampa, at least to compete to be the backup if not starter.  Because he knows the offense.  And they can bring him along slowly.

 

If he comes here and has to learn a new offense while recovering, I think that's a lot.  He won't be able to get all the reps, they'll have to ration the work, and there's no assurance he'll be ready for week 1.  He might be, but that's far from certain.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Darth Tater said:

Oops, I originally wrote the player was born and wanted to change that to before their parents had met.

Now, I wonder ... Would Chase Young's parents have met in 1988?  I don't know how old his parents are.  The average age of first child is 25 years old in the US.  I just looked that up.

 

So, I guess if you assumed Chase Young's parents were around 25 in 1999, then they would have to have met when they were 14 in 1988.

 

For the younger players, that's probably true.

[RWJ]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Breer, who is Keim level almost accurate nationally

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/02/28/mmqb-nfl-draft-outlook-aaron-rodgers-contract-combine

 

Teams are, indeed, willing to deal for Deshaun Watson without full resolution of the 22 lawsuits filed against him. The biggest question is whether the Texans believe they can get fair value before such resolution comes about.

 

• Seahawks QB Russell Wilson has worked with his coaches in recent weeks as if he’s going to play in Seattle in 2022. We know the owner wants him there, but we still have yet to hear from Wilson specifically. What coach Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider say about their quarterback in Indy should be interesting.

 

I know you are more concerned about Philly getting Wilson than anything else, at least I think so.  SIP, I think you can take a deep breath.  He going to stay in Seattle.  He's trying to get more money along with an extension.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

40 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I'm thinking Corral will be there at #11 without a lot of angst and moves. No Senior bowl and now not throwing at the Combine may give enough teams pause just due to uncertainty. And btw, I'm just fine with that. As long as the FO is convinced that the ankle isn't an achilles heel, that should give him time to heal up, without pressure to produce immediately

None of the top QBs throw at the combine, though, do they?  I think they all do some of the measurables, the 40, etc.  But then they wait until their own pro-day to actually throw?  I would assume the other top QBs are eventually going to do the same.  

 

It's a pity he couldn't participate in the Senior Bowl practices.  But I think he was still recovering from injury.

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I know you are more concerned about Philly getting Wilson than anything else, at least I think so.  SIP, I think you can take a deep breath.  He going to stay in Seattle.  He's trying to get more money along with an extension.