The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Wait, he said what?

 

They don't want to draft a guy because they may lose the opportunity to draft them after 1 year?

 

Is that essentially saying he's a lame duck HC at this point? I don't get it.

 

I don't want Watson. At some point character matters. If he's cleared of all charges, fine. If it's settled or its still in litigation? I want NOTHING to do with him. 

 

He didn't say that concretely, he hit on the reasons for various moves at QB. He said that look at the Chargers, they drafted Herbert and their HC was fired after 1 year even though Herbert played well. He cited patience as being critical for a rookie QB situation, and  mean ... he definitely alluded to the fact that time isn't on their side (maybe I'm reading into that). But then at another point he asked why you couldn't win with a rookie QB .. said it's been done. Again, he cited the Bills as the example for team-building successfully. Mentioned drafting Allen in Year 2, taking strides in Year 3.

 

I'm putting 2+2 together here. Weaker QB class. Had a chance to draft a QB last year and didn't because they had Fitzpatrick and wanted to keep building the team. Went aggressively after Matt Stafford early in the off-season.

 

They need to find the answer at QB. But last year would have been the year to draft a QB, and they chose to go the veteran route. In a less impactful class, I have a hard time seeing them get aggressive for a rookie unless they have a "The Guy" circled that they feel they can win right away with. My guess is Plan A is to trade for a stud QB. Plan B would be to get a solid veteran option ala FItzpatrick (Mariota, Trubisky?) as a stop gap for a rookie draft pick.

 

If you listened to the interview in whole you could probably pick a "QB Path" that seems most likely based on what he said and it would be different than what someone else picked up on. But my read is ... go hard after a QB (Watson would be my guess) and have the backup plan be a stopgap veteran and aggressive move for a desired rookie.

Edited January 11, 2022 by JamesMadisonSkins

[KDawg]

Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

He didn't say that concretely, he hit on the reasons for various moves at QB. He said that look at the Chargers, they drafted Herbert and their HC was fired after 1 year even though Herbert played well.

 

I'm putting 2+2 together here. Weaker QB class. Had a chance to draft a QB last year and didn't because they had Fitzpatrick and wanted to keep building the team. Went aggressively after Matt Stafford early in the off-season.

 

They need to find the answer at QB. But last year would have been the year to draft a QB, and they chose to go the veteran route. In a less impactful class, I have a hard time seeing them get aggressive for a rookie unless they have a "The Guy" circled that they feel they can win right away with. My guess is Plan A is to trade for a stud QB. Plan B would be to get a solid veteran option ala FItzpatrick (Mariota, Trubisky?) as a stop gap for a rookie draft pick.

 

We've been discussing Trubisky/Mariota/Bridgewater as a combo with a rookie for months here.

 

But if he is worried about job security he should probably not be our coach at this point. It literally ruins the franchise when you can't draft a guy because YOU may not be around. 

 

I'm actually pretty frustrated to read that. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

It's wise not to take too much from what a coach says to the media.  If you hang on to every word and go back to what they said X amount of weeks ago and all that, you're only going to find they have a way of talking around in circles and out both sides of their mouth.  There are legitimate reasons for this.

 

What you can takeaway is the overall gist, that he's well aware of how important it is that he finds a QB, by any means necessary.  

[KDawg]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It's wise not to take too much from what a coach says to the media.  If you hang on to every word and go back to what they said X amount of weeks ago and all that, you're only going to find they have a way of talking around in circles and out both sides of their mouth.  There are legitimate reasons for this.

 

What you can takeaway is the overall gist, that he's well aware of how important it is that he finds a QB, by any means necessary.  

 

Agree.

 

But why the **** would you say that at all? Give non answers. 

[pcbothwel]

8 minutes ago, Bacon said:

I think people are too down on this upcoming QB draft class and I'm especially fond of Matt Corral. His footwork is excellent, he makes great decisions and can help make our running game better with his command of the RPO. 

 

Look at this throw into a bucket at 1:25:

 

 

With the kind of offense we run, there is real potential for him and he probably can be had without moving up too much. Maybe he's even available at 11 depending on his draft stock at the time and what happens with Pickett. 

 

Agreed. Corral is my QB1. Great Feet and arm. Natural football athlete. Hyper competitive (Plays as underdog in SEC, Demanded to play in Sugar Bowl and not opt out).

I like Howell and Pickett, but you almost have to swing for Corral if he makes to ~7.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

But why the **** would you say that at all? Give non answers. 

Agreed, although I didn't hear it, perhaps that's not what he was conveying.  Doesn't sound like a Ron thing to say.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

We've been discussing Trubisky/Mariota/Bridgewater as a combo with a rookie for months here.

 

But if he is worried about job security he should probably not be our coach at this point. It literally ruins the franchise when you can't draft a guy because YOU may not be around. 

 

I'm actually pretty frustrated to read that. 

 

My edited comment reflects this, but you could listen to the interview and probably get a different takeaway than me. He basically gave the pros and cons of the rookie drafting scenario. He didn't give any cons to trading or acquiring a veteran option, only Pros. But the Pros/Cons to the rookie have much higher stakes with more unknowns. He cited the Bills and Josh Allen as the right model to build a team. He also responded to a question saying "why not" when told you can't win with a rookie, cited Ben Roethlisberger.

 

My read, though, is veteran QB acquisition as Path A, with Path B being what you laid out as a Trubisky/Mariota/Bridgeater + rookie. BUT, that was my hope for LAST off-season, so it kind of makes 2021 season a wash in hindsight.

[KDawg]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Agreed, although I didn't hear it, perhaps that's not what he was conveying.  Doesn't sound like a Ron thing to say.

 

Agree there, too. Definitely doesn't sound Ron like. I'd have to hear this interview myself because it doesn't make sense.

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

IMO if you were to compare the QB options from 2020 21 22 23 I wouldnt have anyone of the QBs in this class in the top 10

Right now you wouldn't, but who knows who will develop. Hurts looks like a better QB right now than Tua and Lawrence. Who saw that? I think Corral has it all and I like that. I think Howell has a lot but didn't do as well without his WRs. Both are guys I think can be really good. After that its a question mark because with guys like Ridder and Willis you have running threats who have success passing but what's their ceiling as passers? Can they be effective like some of the previous running QBs in college? If so they could be better than Lance and Fields from last year. Then there is Pickett who had it all come together this past year similar to Burrow. Who is to say he can't be a Burrow in the pros? I don't like his hand size and its freaking me out but he has done what he's done and its not Madden. 

 

I think there is some talent but people (myself included) aren't excited because there is no gamechanger who everybody is saying must go number 1. I think this is a good class that may be comparable to 2017 or 2018 where some really good QBs were taken early. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Agree there, too. Definitely doesn't sound Ron like. I'd have to hear this interview myself because it doesn't make sense.

 

He went through just about every scenario of QB. Said 4 paths. In-house, Rookie QB, veteran FA, trade for QB. All 4 options will be analyzed and a path forward will be laid out.

 

Rookie: Pros being you like a guy you move to get him and can build around him. Cons being you might have to give up substantial capital and players to do so, is it worth it? Also, learning curve for rookies, cited Chargers as instance where they made a good pick at QB but were fired after a year, so no guarantees even if you get the pick right (in response to a question about whether they could draft a QB in Year 3 and have Dan's support to groom the rookie).

 

[Bacon]

10 minutes ago, Redwards said:

My main legit concern about Corral (aside from him running the scheme he does) is his weight.  The dude is 190 pounds.  There is no way anyone can convince me that a QB playing at that weight with Corral's build can last.  NFL LBs and DEs are bigger, stronger and faster than they have ever been.  Heck, WRs who are 190 or less are considered a legit risk...and they aren't getting pounded every other play.  Imagine a QB like Corral dropping back and getting popped over and over again like every QB does.  I just cannot see any way they guy can survive.  And again, his frame isn't going to support that much more muscle.  He's scrawnier than RGIII was.  

 

Where did you see that he's 190? He's listed as 205. As of now, he's the same height as the likely MVP and 20 pounds lighter. Absolutely would like to see him put on another 10 pounds but I haven't heard too many other analysts fret over his build. 

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 I think Howell has a lot but didn't do as well without his WRs.

 

In converse, the receivers didn't do well without Howell this year in the League. 

 

Dazz Newsome - 2 rec, 23 yards.

Dyami Brown - 12 rec, 165 yards

 

 

Last year in college:

 

Dazz Newsome 54 rec, 684 yards

Dyami Brown: 55 rec, 1099 yards

 

In comparison, Josh Downs and Antoine Green had better years this year than Dazz and Dyami last year at UNC:

 

Downs: 101 rec, 1335 yards

Green: 31 rec, 612 yards.

 

So where does this "he didn't do well without his receivers" stuff come from? He also almost rushed for 1k yards.

 

UNC's issue was their offensive line.

Edited January 11, 2022 by KDawg

[skinny21]

14 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

1 WR. The Oline yes. The defense is closer to what we saw this year vs last. I have major doubts about Thomas being good again at his age with the injury. He likely wont be back until mid to late september at the earliest. 

He preaches building the team last year for not wanting to give up picks but now is open to trading up for significantly worse QB options. Awesome

Totally understand why you might have a fairly negative view of the roster, but I think that will differ from how a veteran qb might view it.  Speaking of which, I wonder how much effort qbs would put into ‘scouting’ a team before joining it?  

 

So yep, 1 receiver, but I’d think McLaurin is quite attractive to a qb.  I will say that for us fans, we’re down on Samuel (understandably), but from an outsider’s perspective he might elicit an “ok, he’s pretty good” though.  I could be wrong about that.  Agree about the concerns regarding Thomas, which is why I put him separately.

I’d think a 1,000 yard back and McKissick would move the needle a bit.

The biggest attraction though (maybe aside from McLaurin) could be the oline.

 

Maybe the defense is considered to have taken a step back from last year, but 1) they played well against some good teams (held them to low point totals), 2) I think outsiders would probably think (rightly or wrongly) we really missed our DEs, and 3) they had to deal with an inconsistent offense.

 

Interestingly, we played a lot of the top vets that have been discussed (Rodgers/Wilson/Carr/Ryan/Mariota/Trubisky), so I wonder how they view our defense.  Obviously they weren’t watching film of our offense, but got to see them in action (with Heinicke at the helm).

 

[88Comrade2000]

The best option to me is:

 

Get Mariotta/Tribusky to be your stopgap qb- 1-2 year starter.

 

Draft a rookie to groom- he would take over in year 2-3.

 

Taylor as third string.

 

If Ron is worried about being fired by going with a rookie qb; then he should resign. Then we would have a new coach to go with that rookie qb.

 

His First 2 years mistakes are catching up to him.

[HigSkin]

28 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

We've been discussing Trubisky/Mariota/Bridgewater as a combo with a rookie for months here.

 

But if he is worried about job security he should probably not be our coach at this point. It literally ruins the franchise when you can't draft a guy because YOU may not be around. 

 

I'm actually pretty frustrated to read that. 

 

You should listen to the interview because I didn't get any of that from it.  I guess it's all perspective but a lot of the interview was The Junkies throwing scenario's at him and names which RR would not answer.  He was just speaking in generalities and not really saying anything.

 

https://www.audacy.com/thefandc/listen#schedule

 

It's around the 8:25 mark

 

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by HigSkin

[Zim489]

29 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

We've been discussing Trubisky/Mariota/Bridgewater as a combo with a rookie for months here.

 

But if he is worried about job security he should probably not be our coach at this point. It literally ruins the franchise when you can't draft a guy because YOU may not be around. 

 

I'm actually pretty frustrated to read that. 

Im right there with you. For 2 years now now you have Ron on record being sckeevy on the QB spot. I don't think he values the position the way he should. I think his entire mindset is warped from stepping into Day 1 year 1 with Cam. 

29 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

My edited comment reflects this, but you could listen to the interview and probably get a different takeaway than me. He basically gave the pros and cons of the rookie drafting scenario. He didn't give any cons to trading or acquiring a veteran option, only Pros. But the Pros/Cons to the rookie have much higher stakes with more unknowns. He cited the Bills and Josh Allen as the right model to build a team. He also responded to a question saying "why not" when told you can't win with a rookie, cited Ben Roethlisberger.

 

My read, though, is veteran QB acquisition as Path A, with Path B being what you laid out as a Trubisky/Mariota/Bridgeater + rookie. BUT, that was my hope for LAST off-season, so it kind of makes 2021 season a wash in hindsight.

Yeah the 2021 season was just a waste of year. We learned nothing. Gained nothing. Built nothing. Its painfully obvious they should have been more aggressive in last years draft and spent this year building the Rookie. 

[HigSkin]

 

[Zim489]

28 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Right now you wouldn't, but who knows who will develop. Hurts looks like a better QB right now than Tua and Lawrence. Who saw that? I think Corral has it all and I like that. I think Howell has a lot but didn't do as well without his WRs. Both are guys I think can be really good. After that its a question mark because with guys like Ridder and Willis you have running threats who have success passing but what's their ceiling as passers? Can they be effective like some of the previous running QBs in college? If so they could be better than Lance and Fields from last year. Then there is Pickett who had it all come together this past year similar to Burrow. Who is to say he can't be a Burrow in the pros? I don't like his hand size and its freaking me out but he has done what he's done and its not Madden. 

 

I think there is some talent but people (myself included) aren't excited because there is no gamechanger who everybody is saying must go number 1. I think this is a good class that may be comparable to 2017 or 2018 where some really good QBs were taken early. 

I personally dont know how anyone can say its a good class. There will be 1-2 guys that Will end up in the 12-16 range but personally I dont feel like that will be good enough. Its clearly the worst class since 2013 if youre looking for a franchise QB. 

[Llevron]

26 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Agreed, although I didn't hear it, perhaps that's not what he was conveying.  Doesn't sound like a Ron thing to say.

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Agree there, too. Definitely doesn't sound Ron like. I'd have to hear this interview myself because it doesn't make sense.

 

For the most part he gave non-answers but they did get him waxing poetically about teams in similar situations that he thought he could learn from. Either they or he mentioned the Chargers where (I think) they had a coach who drafted a young guy, got fired, and then the young guy blossomed. He was speaking frankly and slipped up and said that it is a factor. He did say it. But he also said he was open to the option because it may be what's best for the team. 

 

Ultimately he said it comes down to what compensation you want to pay. There are obvious other factors, he says, and he included the idea that you can draft a guy and get fired....but i don't think he said he was worried about that happening to him. He just aware of situations where it happens and who isn't. But when he started to talk about compensation to pay, he lead me to believe its all about the best business decision. As a matter of fact, the most animated and honest he was during the entire interview was when he was talking about how 'Why not US' when it comes to drafting a guy and him being successful enough right away. It became very obvious be believes that with all the pieces in place.....Samuels, the defense, the top 10 Oline.....that the right rookie can come in and get us there. He very clearly believes that and was pissed when the Junks said that they couldn't. 

 

He also said, multiple times, that hes not sure it makes sense to spend multiple picks and maybe a player on a guy to have to turn around and have to spend salary capital to keep him around when you could draft a guy and have him for years without that much investment. IMO he is clearly in favor of drafting a guy and thinks he has a team in place for them to be successful. 

 

Don't let snippets upset you yet. There will be a recording of it by COB I'm sure and we can break it down then. But to me he said exactly what we wanted him to say.....which ultimately wasn't much at all other than I'm keeping ALL OPTIONS open and we have confidence in what we choose. 

 

ill proof read this in like an hour but i wanted to get this out cause imo it was a good interview. He also told the junks to leave him TF alone for a year which I thought was hilarious lol

[Zim489]

19 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

 

 

If Ron is worried about being fired by going with a rookie qb; then he should resign. Then we would have a new coach to go with that rookie qb.

 

His First 2 years mistakes are catching up to him.

Honestly would be the best thing for the franchise. Ron messed up his timeline ignoring the position for 2 years. Now itll be a struggle to get a QB right within the next 2 years to warrant an extension. We can't fire him because hes well respected and would look bad around the league. But now we might be stuck with him for another 2 years building the team in an incorrect way. 

[Est.1974]

Trading for Watson would be wild. Even by our standards.

[Llevron]

19 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

You should listen to the interview because I didn't get any of that from it.  I guess it's all perspective but a lot of the interview was The Junkies throwing scenario's at him and names which RR would not answer.  He was just speaking in generalities and not really saying anything.

 

https://www.audacy.com/thefandc/listen#schedule

 

It's around the 8:25 mark

 

You just changed my life I did not know I could listen to this at work. 

 

Productivity down

[KDawg]

Just now, Llevron said:

 

You just changed my life I did not know I could listen to this at work. 

 

Productivity down

 I just listened to it. He's just talking about all the various things to talk about. I didn't take a thing away from any of that other than there are 8 million factors to think about in the decision including what options are even available. 

[Redskins 2021]

6 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Trading for Watson would be wild. Even by our standards.

Get Watson he will be on best behavior now, he is perfect for this offense, and will put excitement back in the stadium we have not seen since RG3. It's risky but this will be the best QB we can realistic get. I think we have the package they really want.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 I just listened to it. He's just talking about all the various things to talk about. I didn't take a thing away from any of that other than there are 8 million factors to think about in the decision including what options are even available. 

 

Cool. Cause if you panic I'm more inclined to panic and I'm having a good day right now 😶