The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[seantaylor=god]

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I am incredibly worried about Daniels' frame. Throw out all of the other issues and noise up to this point, but his body cannot sustain a long NFL career. And he's almost 24, not like he can grow into that frame more. Definitely concerning and my gut feel on Daniels is he ends up being a bust. But I will still root and cheer for him but will continue to hope and pray we either draft Maye or trade down.

I’d try not to worry about it. RG3 PTSD is real but unlike RG3, Jayden has no major injury history, and took big shots in the SEC. 
 

Just enjoy the fun until you can’t anymore lol. 

[DogofWar1]

42 minutes ago, Idaho fan said:

Nope.  To much “smoke” he hates DC.  He doesn’t want to be there.  He won’t sign a future contract.  Bla bla bla.  lol.  What does he need to do next to satisfy the anti Daniels crowd?  Get a big W tattooed on his forehead?

 

Man normally you have to live here a bit to hate it.  Why is he allowed to skip that step

[The Consigliere]

1 minute ago, seantaylor=god said:

I’d try not to worry about it. RG3 PTSD is real but unlike RG3, Jayden has no major injury history, and took big shots in the SEC. 
 

Just enjoy the fun until you can’t anymore lol. 

See JK Dobbins. Healthy throughout college as a bell cow in the Big 10, an injury riddled disaster in the NFL. Past injury history is no predictor of future injury trends, though it can be suggestive. 

[CommandB11]

Dear GMAP, please let Daniels have his way. We dont want to be stuck with another bust at QB. Needs to get this one right. Thanks!!!!!

Edited April 24 by CommandB11

[DogofWar1]

 

Basically every team in top 5 (Chi gets in via their 9)

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

56 minutes ago, Commander20180 said:

Colin Cowherd just said on his show that he's been told its Jayden.

 

 

"I don't know but I been told!!!

 

I don't know but I been told...

 

Ess-kee-mo ***** is mighteee cold!!!

 

Ess-kee-mo ***** is mighteee cold...

 

Sound off!!!

 

One two..

 

Sound off!!!

 

Three four...

 

ONE TWO THREE FOUR!

 

One two...Three four!

 

.

Edited April 24 by CommanderInTheRye

[Redskin21502]

I am perfectly fine with anyone that we take because after the Snyder Error I am excited to get back to being a great organization which means being all in on GMAP and his decisions until proven wrong.

 

Having said that, with the expectation that Daniels is the QB I go back to last football season. It was college and obviously it doesn't mean anything moving forward but as an ACC football fan (Miami guy) I rarely watch much other than the ACC. The last half of the year I would make a point to watch LSU for Daniels. He was electrifying so I choose to hope that can continue in the NFL. I choose hope for the first time in many years. 

[Blanka]

45 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Im getting his jersey. F it. Im all in. Lets support our new QB.

I’m bad luck. My last 3  rookie jerseys were RG3, Dwayne(was a gift) and Chase.

 

I’ll do the whole fanbase a solid. I will not buy a JD5.

[Warhead36]

Daniels is gonna bring us national buzz and hype. Expect at least a couple of nationally televised games.

1 minute ago, Blanka said:

I’m bad luck. My last 3  rookie jerseys were RG3, Dwayne(was a gift) and Chase.

 

I’ll do the whole fanbase a solid. I will not buy a JD5.

I haven't bought a jersey since like....Cooley in 08 ish? I got a McNabb jersey as a gift in 2010, maybe if I can find it I can repurpose it as a Daniels one assuming he keeps #5.

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 minute ago, Blanka said:

I’m bad luck. My last 3  rookie jerseys were RG3, Dwayne(was a gift) and Chase.

 

I’ll do the whole fanbase a solid. I will not buy a JD5.

 

 

Do us a real favor and buy a jersey of whoever Mara's Giants draft. lol

Edited April 24 by CommanderInTheRye

[DogofWar1]

7 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

See JK Dobbins. Healthy throughout college as a bell cow in the Big 10, an injury riddled disaster in the NFL. Past injury history is no predictor of future injury trends, though it can be suggestive. 

 

I do think there's an underexplored (certainly not unexplored but not sufficiently explored either) area of sports injuries/medicine that looks at the sheer forces involved in going from college to the nfl.

 

Kinetic force is 1/2 mass times velocity squared.

 

Bigger faster objects are going to exert WAYYYYY more force than smaller slower ones.  It would be interesting to see exactly how much more force an NFL player is exposed to compared to an average college player.

 

Add in that you're going from 13-15 games to at least 17 (plus preseason and potential post season) and boy howdy is that a LOT of wear and tear.

[Kalu44]

21 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

My gut says we will never know what he could have become. Because he wont physically survive the NFL game. But if he can stay healthy. I think he could be amazing. 

 

If Daniels does get injured and flames out, then this franchise will NEVER choose another "thin" QB again...and we won't have to worry about it as a fanbase moving forward. If he stays healthy, then the sky is the limit.

[seantaylor=god]

12 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I think the real dividing line between the two sides of this Daniels/Maye debate is in how you weigh 2023 versus prior years.

 

I see a lot of scouting comments (and metrics) that are focused entirely on 2023. Where the most recent data points seem to be overwhelmingly the most important ones. Traditionally, this gets cast aside by "well, that's who he is now" or "so you're saying it's a bad thing that he improved?" From this perspective, Daniels is far and away the better selection, as he was staggeringly good for the last 10 games of his college career. Maye, on the other hand, had 2-3 pretty dicey games to end his career.

 

But where things become tricky for me is that I believe the following statement is undeniably true: If you watched the first 85-90% of Maye's career (his first 25 games) and you watched the first 80-85% of Daniels's career (his first 45 games), there is absolutely no chance that you would have rated Daniels the better player.

 

Considering the overall picture of their respective college careers, it's a very narrow sliver in which Daniels actually exceeds Maye. I have some concern that the draft community as a whole is putting a ton of stock in the last things we've seen -- and forgetting a lot of what came before. Just as one example, this article was previously posted, and it cites serious concerns about Maye and his comparatively poor accuracy. But the stats they're looking at in putting together the big multi-colored graph about completions and on-target rate by distance is based solely on "final college season."

 

But what happens when you take into account "career" rather than just "2023"? All of a sudden, Maye is the career leader among the draft QBs in completion percentage over expectation -- and Jayden finds himself bringing up the rear. So does that go out the window because Jayden was exceptional in his final year? That's the question that I think is dividing everyone more than anything else.

 

 

Great post, thanks.

 

It’s why this is so difficult. All of these guys CAN do it physically, it’s a question of how often they do it and can they repeat it.
 

My hope is that the QB who performed the best on the board and in any tests looking at reading defenses, football acumen, etc. is our pick from the top 3 guys. Everything else we can work on.

 

 

[The Consigliere]

9 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

Basically every team in top 5 (Chi gets in via their 9)

 

So are the Chargers going Alt, a different OL, or Nabers? 

[clskinsfan]

I have posted enough negative stuff about Daniels. It is important to see the good as well. His arm is adequate. Not special. But he is capable of making the throws. I posted a bunch of bad throws from him a few weeks ago. I wont do that now that I am pretty much convinced he is our franchise QB. 

 

This is a dime from Daniels. One of the few opposite hash throws I saw on tape from him. The ball travelled roughly 50 air yards. With perfect touch:

 

 

Backside dig. Watch how he manipulates the LB with his eyes. The ball is driven with velocity for 25 yards. 

 

 

Daniels progressing through reads:

 

 

Opposite hash deep out. The only one I saw on tape from him. But it is a perfect throw. 

 

 

Best throw on the run of his college career:

 

 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

His release is so lightning quick and fluid. Its gonna be fun to watch. Just gotta protect him. His OL at LSU was all world.

 

McLaurin and Dotson are gonna feast and I hope we can draft a third to run along with them.

 

Our offense should be like 2012 again but even better if Daniels is better than RG3 because the rest of the supporting cast is much better than what RG3 had.

 

10-7 and we steal the NFC East. Book it.

[The Consigliere]

16 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I think the real dividing line between the two sides of this Daniels/Maye debate is in how you weigh 2023 versus prior years.

 

I see a lot of scouting comments (and metrics) that are focused entirely on 2023. Where the most recent data points seem to be overwhelmingly the most important ones. Traditionally, this gets cast aside by "well, that's who he is now" or "so you're saying it's a bad thing that he improved?" From this perspective, Daniels is far and away the better selection, as he was staggeringly good for the last 10 games of his college career. Maye, on the other hand, had 2-3 pretty dicey games to end his career.

 

But where things become tricky for me is that I believe the following statement is undeniably true: If you watched the first 85-90% of Maye's career (his first 25 games) and you watched the first 80-85% of Daniels's career (his first 45 games), there is absolutely no chance that you would have rated Daniels the better player.

 

Considering the overall picture of their respective college careers, it's a very narrow sliver in which Daniels actually exceeds Maye. I have some concern that the draft community as a whole is putting a ton of stock in the last things we've seen -- and forgetting a lot of what came before. Just as one example, this article was previously posted, and it cites serious concerns about Maye and his comparatively poor accuracy. But the stats they're looking at in putting together the big multi-colored graph about completions and on-target rate by distance is based solely on "final college season."

 

But what happens when you take into account "career" rather than just "2023"? All of a sudden, Maye is the career leader among the draft QBs in completion percentage over expectation -- and Jayden finds himself bringing up the rear. So does that go out the window because Jayden was exceptional in his final year? That's the question that I think is dividing everyone more than anything else.

 

 

Definitely does a nice job of illustrating why I'm so distrustful of Daniels. I am utterly baffled at people's insistence on ignoring 80% of Daniels CV, and fixating on what, 20-25% of Maye's. It's very odd. 

 

It may not matter, but man oh man is the history not favorable to guys w/those kinds of trend lines, the positive to me anyway is that Daniels wasn't awful earlier, like say, Pickett, he was solid to good, but still, it's pretty wild to ignore a giant chunk of a player's cv and fixate on '23 alone which its patently obvious, at least people quoted in media are doing with Daniels, if not the team necessairly. Projecting exclusively off the ideal season is a fools errand the vast majority of time. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

42 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

One of my fave gifs I started using here way back. Classic scifi, book and film. 👍

 

 

Two great films actually.

 

The original, much like the classic Fred Zinneman western, "High Noon", was a (mod edit political reference).

[The Consigliere]

5 minutes ago, Kalu44 said:

 

If Daniels does get injured and flames out, then this franchise will NEVER choose another "thin" QB again...and we won't have to worry about it as a fanbase moving forward. If he stays healthy, then the sky is the limit.

Nah, regime's change, but stupidity is always right around the corner, doing push ups. 

[tmandoug1]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

His release is so lightning quick and fluid. Its gonna be fun to watch. Just gotta protect him. His OL at LSU was all world.

 

McLaurin and Dotson are gonna feast and I hope we can draft a third to run along with them.

 

Our offense should be like 2012 again but even better if Daniels is better than RG3 because the rest of the supporting cast is much better than what RG3 had.

 

10-7 and we steal the NFC East. Book it.

Watching the above clips...it does seem like he has all day. Much different than what Howell had last year. I don't think he would have made it through the year if played last year. Need to nail the oline this year or JD is doomed.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

14 minutes ago, Blanka said:

I’m bad luck. My last 3  rookie jerseys were RG3, Dwayne(was a gift) and Chase.

 

I’ll do the whole fanbase a solid. I will not buy a JD5.

 

Ramsey, Campbell, RG3 for me.

 

I just said screw it and bought a Sean Taylor jersey after the RG3 fiasco. Said I'd never buy another jersey again.

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

What you see sometimes lies to you and you to yourself....it's inherently biased. You bring yourself into what you're watching and logging. 

 

But if the PFF guys don't even trust their numbers to dicipher what QB to take.  And you think the tape lies because scouts can watch it objectively.  How do we do this?

Edited April 24 by Skinsinparadise

[NickyJ]

If whoever we picked uses his first interview to say that the team that picked before him done messed up, I'm on the phone with Goodell to see if draft picks come with warranties.

[Jumbo]

I also hope if we pick Maye that the JD fans will be supportive.

 

Hooper has directed his castigation of "biases and narratives" to the JD critics. 

 

I loathe lazy and simplistic bias in particular, in any argument. "Narrative" often gets used in a presumptive pejorative sense when of course the word is really a neutral term. I prefer using the term "false narrative" or applying some sort of appropriate qualifying adjective in front of the word. Some false narratives are promulgated with knowing, deliberate intent. That's the worst.

 

Most here that are false, to whatever degree,  will be the product of a bias with the presented  arguments getting repeated and expanded until they are more a whole tapestry of arguments considered truth, though they may largely still be legitimately debated and. countered 

 

Over the course of the thread I've seen all of that from some hard liners in both the JD and Maye camps. So it's not one-sided, though the sides making the most noise has switched places back and forth over time.

 

Overall, while still full of internet opinionator hijinks, it's actually been one of the better QB debate threads we've had in quite awhile. 👍

 

Sure beats the ____ out of the Heinikie and Howell daze. 😁

[TheGoodBits]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

 

 

Our offense should be like 2012 again but even better if Daniels is better than RG3 because the rest of the supporting cast is much better than what RG3 had.

 

Eh I would absolutely not say that. 2012 we had Trent Williams at LT, an aging but still productive Santana Moss plus a very good prime Pierre Garcon at WR. Run game had a 1600 rusher in Alfred Morris. Plus Kyle Shanahan >>> KK.  
 

Terry and Dotson are good but not great, RBs have more skill, Oline is definitely worse. I think the 2012 team was better.
 

Idk what to expect with Daniels. I was so ****ing excited for Robert Griffin and remember there was so much said pre draft about his mature passing game. "Not just a runner." Gonna have to take a "believe it when I see it" approach. Honestly I might not fully buy in until he makes it through a full season or even two, bothj unscathed and productive.