The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Warhead36]

I don't get how our regime can not fall in love with Maye. Kid has it all.

[frontline205]

2 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

You turned my argument into a strawman because you cannot argue it. That is a you problem. I don't have to defend this stuff. But look at what you said, look at what I said, and then look at what you said I said. They differ a lot. You are defensive about the "he doesn't always do that" argument because its correct, he doesn't. You want to argue its a pattern of behavior that is difficult if not impossible to solve at the next level. I argue he is coached to do it, is making the correct, positive play. We have danced this dance before. Its why we used to be friends. 

 

Honestly if you are going to do this I don't know why we are even getting into this. You know what I'm going to say at this point. And I know you are going to accuse me of making strawman arguments. No fun in that for me. And I guarantee you can anticipate my responses to all these points by now. So soon we are just gonna skip all the typing and just grunt at each other. 

 

 

The list of people good at that stat is not super good company either really. Unless you manipulate the numbers to only include people who got a second contract (ie isolate the good people). Then sure, you have a point. PFF, who loves this number, says all the time that its nebulous at best when it comes to predicting an NFL career. Only that its hard to improve on. Which I agree its hard to improve. Might be something he struggles with. 

 

 

Speed kills at all levels. He has it. He will be effective. Define wont translate. Cause if you mean he wont be getting yards on the ground in the NFL then I couldn't disagree more and I don't think you have anyway to prove that. If you mean he will take such big hits that he will break then yes that is the worry we agree there. 

 

 

The hope will be he learns or his coach sits him before it ends his career. But it is a worry, yes. 

 

 

We watched offensive coordinators all over the NFL during the regular season and especially in the playoffs scheme guys wide open. Are we the only team in the league who is not planning to do that? Even if we are (the only team who wont scheme guys open) watching his film gives me no reason to believe he cant do this stuff. He has done it. He also looks to be really good staying on time and on schedule in the pocket. If there is a worry about him passing, its how often he does it outside of the planned offense. To me its easy to see what he could do in the correct structure. 

 

Honestly we have done this enough I know your points. I think they are valid. I just disagree with your analysis. Thats not what ended our friendship. It was that snake who got in between us. 

My Friend, you are putting into words the thoughts I'm much too busy to really sit down and write out. I appreciate your prospective.

[zCommander]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't get how our regime can not fall in love with Maye. Kid has it all.

 

The FO will do the opposite of what the media thinks they will do. So in another words it will be Maye. So don't sweat it.  

[Jumbo]

I absolutely want May over the others.

 

I have the typical concerns for JD's durability. But zero disrespect. He's got a lot of talent and has developed well over a very extensive college resume.

 

He's had more experience/play time than many a candidate to date. Nevertheless, he's definitely below Maye for me.

 

I think JJ is likely to translate his pluses to the NFL if he lands that "right" environment.

 

Same with Penix, but I see him clearly below the others overall.

 

If we get JD as so many on the internet seem to believe is happening, I don't be bummed but I will be a mixed bag of excitement over his skillset and concern about his long term health.

 

If we get Maye, I know I will be more optimistic about the long term picture and appropriately patient about his development. 

 

I see his potential to be more than that of JD overall even before factoring my worries re: JD, but then when I add those, the combination puts me solidly in the Maye camp.

 

And I also see how easily my best thinking on all these choices can be wrong in more than one instance. 😆

[Llevron]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

DJ backing off thinking Maye will be the pick

 

 

 

 

Weird part about this was him saying he was just going with Drake Maye in the beginning cause "his gut" was telling him that Maye was more of a Matt Ryan type of player. What my man? How? 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Just now, Jumbo said:

I don't be bummed 

You mean "I Isn't be bummed."

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I can't disagree. But, I personally would take under serious consideration the fact that the young man did not give up. IIRC, he was very close to quitting football because of the injuries and yet persevered, transferred to Washington, and was successful. When jobs are on the line, I can certainly understand the reticence when it comes to Penix but by all accounts, he is going somewhere in the 1st despite the red flags.

I think for the previous 2.5 months of this QB debate, I was laughing at people arguing for trading down because #1 it was a pointless argument as the entire reason we got the hires we did is because we got to use that 2nd overall on a QB, and #2 we were taking Maye. I never even considered the trading down idea and laughed at it, but a big part of that was I always assumed the pick was Maye, and never really bothered to dig into Daniels more than knowing it made no sense, but a few weeks ago it kinda hit me that:

 

Yeah, if the pick was/is Daniels, I'd much rather trade down and take Penix instead because I think Penix could easily be a better QB or at least Daniels equal, and that Penix, while injury prone as hell in football, doesn't strike me as the injury risk Daniels does long term due to his running (and taking hits like "looney tunes characters". If I knew the pick was 100% Daniels, and I could get like 3 firsts, multiple 2nds, etc and just take Penix over Daniels? Yeah, I'd do that. I just wouldn't do it for Maye.

 

It was disturbing to realize I always had a trade down insanity perspective in play, I just didn't realize it because I never seriously was concerned about us being stupid enough to take Daniels (or JJ for that matter) at 2. Now that we clearly are, yeah, I'd 100% take the trade down, draft Penix, and then reboot at QB in '26 if Penix busts or can't stay healthy. I much prefer that plan, to rolling the dice on Daniels.

 

That being said, that isn't happening, so I just have to deal with the reality that we may just do something unbelievably foolish to me. At least there's some solace in that if those guys bust, we'll know within 18 months, and can take for '26. I don't think Maye gives you that, I think Maye gives you a high enough floor to where you don't know what to do for the 2nd contract a la Derek Carr/Jameis Winston etc (which to my mind, is the worst of all worlds). 

Edited April 22 by The Consigliere

[Llevron]

15 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't get how our regime can not fall in love with Maye. Kid has it all.

 

Who knows. He really seems like their type of player and personality. I cant imagine them not liking him. I still think he is the pick over Daniels. And I don't see how they cannot be worried about JD getting hurt. Seems so obvious. 

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

Lamar was not a good passer coming outta college. That is why he dropped to the end of the first.

 

He was an absolute project coming into the NFL that practically every team passed on. The chances a guy like that work out was an absolute moonshot. In the league he has seen abnormal and unnatural growths in passing metics, ones that are only rivaled by Josh Allen.

 

 

People jump to Lamar b/c we have so few examples of guys who's running ability is that electric, but I maintain he's a terrible comp for JD is so many ways.

 

 

JD is a polished passer, who has shown far more development as a thrower of the ball. Your not drafting him and praying to the football gods that he could develop into a decent passer like was done w/ Lamar.

Lamar absolutely annihilated Daniels numbers in terms of QBR every single year of college, save for Daniels QBR as a 5th year senior, and even at that age, Lamar was still better because Lamar was doing the same thing, but at the NFL. A #1 QBR ranking in college as a 5th year senior at age 22 does not trump a #1 QBR ranking in the NFL, at age 22, which is what Lamar produced in his 2nd year.

 

I'm not gonna argue he was polished coming out, he wasn't, but he was a better prospect, period every single year of college in comparison except for Daniels '23, and even Daniel's '23 isn't more impressive than Lamar's profile when you compare what they were doing at similar ages. Lamar didn't need five freaking years to produce a season like Daniels produced in '23, he did that in his second year of college, in 2016, earning 4th in overall QBR #'s, which not coincidentally was why you saw him listed inside a bunch of top 3's and top 5's after the 2017 NFL draft in late April and May of  '17. I don't really know why he fell like he did, though I know that Simmons never stops mentioning how irate he and Patriots fans were when they passed on a dropping Lamar for Sony Michel...but it seems quite clear that the argument that Daniels is or was a better prospect has to be premised on totally ignoring everything Daniels did for 80% of his college seasons which is just ridiculously silly, especially when you compare what they were doing at similar ages, it's no contest. The NFL botched this, period. 

[RWJ]

38 minutes ago, rockluc said:

Another take on Bob:

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't get how our regime can not fall in love with Maye. Kid has it all.

 

Maye is a great prospect IMO.  But judging by a zillion reports which are coming from every corner under the sun, most in the league feel Daniels is the better prospect.

 

The Daniels hype doesn't shock me.  I think the idea that this brass sees Maye as the #3 Qb prospect is a bit shocking to me -- if its indeed true.  I consider myself higher than most on McCarthy but I don't see him on the level as the other two.

 

Having said that, its not over, we don't know yet its not Maye.  So I wouldn't throw in the towell just yet. 

[Llevron]

 

Wow...he very braggadocios. I like my players more tactful and humble.  🚩

(this is a joke) 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Lamar absolutely annihilated Daniels numbers in terms of QBR every single year of college, save for Daniels QBR as a 5th year senior

 

Speaking of Lamar. They are playing the Ravens on the road this year.

 

If they take Daniels, am guessing that game goes prime time.

Edited April 22 by Skinsinparadise

[CommanderInTheRye]

Challenge:

 

Predict the top 5 picks (with trades) for bragging rights.

 

1. Bears take Caleb

2. Commanders take Daniels

3. Vikings trade with Patriots and take Maye

4. Arizona takes MHJ

5. Giants trade with Chargers and take McCarthy

 

EDIT-

Contest Scoring System-

You get 1 point for correctly picking the first pick.

5 points for correctly picking the Commanders pick (it has to be the most points we’re on a Commanders forum).

3 points each for correctly picking the 3rd, 4th, and 5th draft picks.

Bonus of 2 points for every correctly predicted trade. (You must be correct on both the teams that trade and the player selected).

 

 

 

Edited April 22 by CommanderInTheRye

[OtisDriftwood25]

Well Kiem is my most trusted source because he doesn’t really say things without having a good source. He’s saying Daniels or McCarthy. Maybe this is a smoke screen to get more trade value. I doubt Washington wants to move out of top 4 of the draft. Maybe they like McCarthy or Maye more but want Patriots to give up second round pick for Daniels.

[DiscoBob]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maye is a great prospect IMO.  But judging by a zillion reports which are coming from every corner under the sun, most in the league feel Daniels is the better prospect.

 

The Daniels hype doesn't shock me.  I think the idea that this brass sees Maye as the #3 Qb prospect is a bit shocking to me -- if its indeed true.  I consider myself higher than most on McCarthy but I don't see him on the level as the other two.

 

Having said that, its not over, we don't know yet its not Maye.  So I wouldn't throw in the towell just yet. 

 

I think I see the problem - you need to just ignore the reports that don't support the outcome you want.

[RWJ]

Just now, CommanderInTheRye said:

Challenge:

 

Predict the top 5 picks (with trades) for bragging rights.

 

1. Bears take Caleb

2. Commanders take Daniels

3. Vikings trade with Patriots and take Maye

4. Arizona takes MHJ

5. Giants trade with Chargers and take McCarthy

 

 

1. Bears take Caleb

2. Commanders take Maye

3. Patriots take Daniels

4. Arizona takes MHJ

5. Giants trade with Chargers and take McCarthy

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

I think I see the problem - you need to just ignore the reports that don't support the outcome you want.

 

The problem for whom?  

[Jumbo]

16 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

You mean "I Isn't be bummed."

 

That is what happens when I dasn't concentrate on my linguinisticks.

[rockluc]

3 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Challenge:

 

Predict the top 5 picks (with trades) for bragging rights.

 

1. Bears take Caleb

2. Commanders take Daniels

3. Vikings trade with Patriots and take Maye

4. Arizona takes MHJ

5. Giants trade with Chargers and take McCarthy

 

 

1. Bears take Caleb

2. Washington takes Maye

3. Pats take McCarthy

4 Arizona takes MHJ

5. Vikings trade up and take Daniels

[NewCliche21]

Just now, Jumbo said:

 

That is what happens when I dasn't concentrate on my linguinisticks.

 

linguinstix*

[Skinsinparadise]

We need @KDawg back. The Penix narrative was his thing before it became cool 

Edited April 22 by Skinsinparadise

[Jumbo]

1 minute ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

linguinstix*

 

I love stix. Grate band.👍

[DiscoBob]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The problem for whom?  

 

[Idaho fan]

7 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Challenge:

 

Predict the top 5 picks (with trades) for bragging rights.

 

1. Bears take Caleb

2. Commanders take Daniels

3. Vikings trade with Patriots and take Maye

4. Arizona takes MHJ

5. Giants trade with Chargers and take McCarthy

 

 

1. Bears take Williams 

2.  Washington takes Daniels

3.  Patriots take Maye

4. Cardinals take Harrison Jr.

5. Vikings trade up for McCarthy