The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[KDawg]

Just now, Rufus T Firefly said:

I think the phrasing is adequate. Could be a bit more hardlined. But it’s fine.

[The Consigliere]

51 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

No offense, but you’ve championed so many prospects in the past that didn’t live up to the billing.  As has literally every scout in existence, much less armchair GM fans like we have here.

 

At what point do you admit they are right and you’re wrong?  What is the benchmark for that, if at all?

 

I say that as someone that would prefer Maye as well.  But I’m not delusional enough to pretend I know better.

Sometimes you should be. There are times when teams are making obvious, stupid outlier decisions. Last year Forbes was the pick and the vast majority of the board we're right in questioning it, in '21 Jamin was the pick and the same was true. There are plenty of times when people will use the appeal to authority argument to provide cover for incompetent nepobaby GM's, just look at the Wizards/Boulez. It's not hard to understand why the suck has stank up the halls of Wizardom for nearly 45 years, just look at the GM's. 

 

We don't have as much information as they have but often you can see exactly how and why they're process is leading them into a terrible, or highly risky decision. I'm not going to give auto-cover to guys simply because they have jobs in the league. The NFL has been littered with nepo babies, and connected morons since its inception. Today is no exception to that, although I think its reasonable to argue it's a bit rarer these days than in the past. 

Edited April 16 by The Consigliere

[Dah-Dee]

18 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Drake Maye has the most rizz of any of the QBs.

 

That's ridiculous, he doesn't even have the most vowels!

[The Consigliere]

41 minutes ago, e16bball said:

It always drives me crazy reading these “team personnel” pieces, just because you’ll see a lot of seemingly on-point stuff — followed by something so off the wall that you can only wonder if they’re lying or just don’t know what they’re talking about. 
 

I picked out one of the threads in the Daniels section that bothers me. Some NFL team executives apparently compared him to Russell Wilson and Bryce Young. What are the two traits Wilson and Young share? Well, (1) they’re both short and (2) their superpower is scrambling to create big pass plays. 
 

Jayden Daniels is tall and he almost never scrambles to create pass plays. Once he bails, he’s gone. He runs to run, he doesn’t run to buy time to throw. He’s like RG3 or Vick or early Lamar in that respect. He couldn’t be less like Russell Wilson or Bryce Young, except that Bryce is also painfully skinny. These are awful comps.

 

But comps are hard, and in fairness, I don’t have a great comp for Jayden either. However, you keep moving on through the piece, and you get to the AFC scout talking about how his legs will “buy him time” to create and make plays. Which seems to suggest this is a genuine narrative that exists for some evaluators around this player. 
 

Maybe it’s just lazy word choice or falling back on scouting cliches. But these are the kind of things that matter. If Jayden had demonstrated the ability to consistently bail, buy time, and keep searching for plays down the field, he’d be a different and better prospect. The only thing you really see Jayden’s legs “create” is big runs with the ball still in his hand. Thinking, even in passing, that him being “mobile” means you’re drafting the Wilson/Mahomes ability to elude the rush and escape to a new platform behind the LOS to launch a bomb downfield — that’s how teams end up getting disappointed by the player they actually get.

Ding ding ding. The one thing those quotes consistently accomplish, is alarming fans paying attention to the fact that either:

#1 they aren't honest with journalists (for instance, years later, Michael Stipe was asked why he talked about UFO's so much in a couple of interviews, but not in others around the New Adventure's in Hi-Fi album, and how many speculated about how the record had connections to X-Filiesish conspiracy/paranoia and ufo theory, and Stipe answered that: "If you see us discussing UFO's in that kind of stuff in response to a journalists question, it means we hated something about the interviewer/interview, and decided to have a laugh with answers, rather than answer questions thoughtfully)

 

#2 they're idiots. 

 

I don't think there's another answer. When i read these GM's/Ex-Front office execs/ex-scouts: take articles at SI.com, espn, theathletic and other sources over the years, all its done is deeply alarm me at the chuckleheads that have had careers in the NFL, it's very clear with some of the takes, they're either stupid, or lying, or just deeply ignorant, and not in a position to answer a question, but deciding to answer it anyway and hoping their air of authority will get them across the finish line. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Just now, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

Can you translate this into old man contemporary English for me?

 

What does “rizz” mean? Is it a good thing or a bad thing?

 

Or did you mean “jizz”, if so no explanation needed, I know what that means.

 

 

Charisma. 

 

I know that without looking it up. That means I'm hip to all the lingo the hepcats use nowadays. Word. 

[mac8887]

21 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Drake Maye has the most rizz of any of the QBs.

But does he have the skibidi? Or the fantum tax? I’m glad to hear he is the rizzler. Now we know we should go with JJ because he doesn’t have time for chasing girls, he’s all about football 

Edited April 16 by mac8887

[CommanderInTheRye]

Just now, mac8887 said:

But does he have the skibidi? Or the fantum tax?

 

 

Now you guys are just messing with me. No way that’s real slang.

 

Next thing you’ll be saying a cap emoji means somebody’s lying.

[Ghost of]

1 minute ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

Now you guys are just messing with me. No way that’s real slang.

 

Next thing you’ll be saying a cap emoji means somebody’s lying.

Cap is old, like everything with these kids, it's just recycling better, more original stuff.  "Rizz" is technically novel but is lame af. I couldn't believe when I heard someone say "pressed" in a skit about Zoomers. lol you know how old that is?

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Sometimes you should be. There are times when teams are making obvious, stupid outlier decisions. Last year Forbes was the pick and the vast majority of the board we're right in questioning it, in '21 Jamin was the pick and the same was true. There are plenty of times when people will use the appeal to authority argument to provide cover for incompetent nepobaby GM's, just look at the Wizards/Boulez. It's not hard to understand why the stuck has stank up the halls of Wizardom for nearly 45 years, just look at the GM's. 

 

We don't have as much information as they have but often you can see exactly how and why they're process is leading them into a terrible, or highly risky decision. I'm not going to give auto-cover to guys simply because they have jobs in the league. The NFL has been littered with nepo babies, and connected morons since its inception. Today is no exception to that, although I think its reasonable to argue it's a bit rarer these days than in the past. 

 

Coming from me, the dude who said on the day draft thread that I'd have a stroke if they didn't take Gonzalez and took Forbes -- to me its apples to oranges to tis QB discussion.

 

Plenty had Forbes as a late 1st-early 2nd rounder.  The buzz that this team might take him earlier started to leak before the draft and some me included didn't get that.  Though once they took him I trusted it in that moment because I have to let a sample play out before putting in a verdict. But it didn't play out well.  And it was considered an outlier move in real time.

 

Yes in THIS thread, the idea of taking Daniels is absurd like it would be to take Forbes.  But in the real world outside of here, its Daniels and Maye clearly head to head.  It's no joke.  It's a real contest. That was not the case for Forbes versus Gonzalez,

 

We can accuse everyone else of Group Think but how do we know the Group Think isn't here on this thread? I love our draft takes here more than most but tough for me to go so far to make the case that we are the best scouting minds in the NFL. 

Edited April 16 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

8 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I know that without looking it up. That means I'm hip to all the lingo the hepcats use nowadays. Word. 

 

8 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

But does he have the skibidi? Or the fantum tax? I’m glad to hear he is the rizzler. Now we know we should go with JJ because he doesn’t have time for chasing girls, he’s all about football 

 

Imma put an end to this right now

 

[Dah-Dee]

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

14 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Sometimes you should be. There are times when teams are making obvious, stupid outlier decisions. Last year Forbes was the pick and the vast majority of the board we're right in questioning it, in '21 Jamin was the pick and the same was true. There are plenty of times when people will use the appeal to authority argument to provide cover for incompetent nepobaby GM's, just look at the Wizards/Boulez. It's not hard to understand why the stuck has stank up the halls of Wizardom for nearly 45 years, just look at the GM's. 

 

We don't have as much information as they have but often you can see exactly how and why they're process is leading them into a terrible, or highly risky decision. I'm not going to give auto-cover to guys simply because they have jobs in the league. The NFL has been littered with nepo babies, and connected morons since its inception. Today is no exception to that, although I think its reasonable to argue it's a bit rarer these days than in the past. 

As someone who spent the better part of a decade railing on how inept Bruce Allen was, I’m well versed in the fact that there are inept folks in the highest ranks of the league.

 

However, there’s literally nothing about any of our top brass or any decisions made thus far that even remotely indicate they will fail long term.

It’s easy to bet on failure, most in the NFL do - even the good ones.

 

Whats currently taking place is folks are in their feelings because they feel strongly about one player or the other.

 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

Rich Eisen on the Commanders unusual tactic of bringing all the quarterbacks in on the same day for a group free for all interview followed by a furious last man wins it all game of murderball…

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16 by CommanderInTheRye

[Chump Bailey]

https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/washington-commanders-ideal-nfl-draft#:~:text=But which two players could,with their first two picks%3F&text=NFL.com's Chad Reuter has,the two he would select.

 

Just came across this AFTER going McCarthy #2. At least someone else feels the same. I like JJ a lot - on the record now as I was last year. 

 

Quote

NFL.com's Chad Reuter has given his take on it and has named Michigan's J.J. McCarthy (No. 2 pick) and Arizona's Jordan Morgan (No. 36) as the two he would select.

 

[The Consigliere]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

As someone who spent the better part of a decade railing on how inept Bruce Allen was, I’m well versed in the fact that there are inept folks in the highest ranks of the league.

 

However, there’s literally nothing about any of our top brass or any decisions made thus far that even remotely indicate they will fail long term.

It’s easy to bet on failure, most in the NFL do - even the good ones.

 

Whats currently taking place is folks are in their feelings because they feel strongly about one player or the other.

 

 

I'd feel a lot better if it was that simple. I just disagree w/you, at least w/regards to some of them. They aren't just simply hating on a prospect, and cheering on their guy. I don't think people look at drafts and prospects the same way they did 15, 25 years ago, we're more familiar these days with hit rate, busts, and analytics in a way nobody was, when they were just buying draft guides decades ago. 

[Dah-Dee]

I mean the guy's middle name is Draft, this lunacy must be accurate:

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Ding ding ding. The one thing those quotes consistently accomplish, is alarming fans paying attention to the fact that either:

#1 they aren't honest with journalists (for instance, years later, Michael Stipe was asked why he talked about UFO's so much in a couple of interviews, but not in others around the New Adventure's in Hi-Fi album, and how many speculated about how the record had connections to X-Filiesish conspiracy/paranoia and ufo theory, and Stipe answered that: "If you see us discussing UFO's in that kind of stuff in response to a journalists question, it means we hated something about the interviewer/interview, and decided to have a laugh with answers, rather than answer questions thoughtfully)

 

#2 they're idiots. 

 

I don't think there's another answer. When i read these GM's/Ex-Front office execs/ex-scouts: take articles at SI.com, espn, theathletic and other sources over the years, all its done is deeply alarm me at the chuckleheads that have had careers in the NFL, it's very clear with some of the takes, they're either stupid, or lying, or just deeply ignorant, and not in a position to answer a question, but deciding to answer it anyway and hoping their air of authority will get them across the finish line. 

 

I don't get why some are so startled by different takes coming from different scouts, love, hate, somewhere in between.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  It's not like we all agree with each others takes on this thread or the draft thread.  We make some emotional proclamations too.

 

I like to bring up Terry McLaurin, not to pick on you, we all get some wrong but about how polarizing he was.  Strong emotions.  I recall it well because I had to spend a lot of time defending that pick and not just to you.  two other people on the draft thread posted "Terry McLaurin sucks.".  Now in a vaccum those posts look idiotic.  But in fairness, its just real time opinion, that's all.  People get em wrong and get em right.  The "experts" are mortal.    But we here are mortal too.   

 

To say our criteria is better or heck when we have strong opinions about a player then in that case we are absolutely right because our conviction is that strong as we know is absurd even though it doesn't feel that way in real time.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

I mean the guy's middle name is Draft, this lunacy must be accurate:

 

 

 

Some here would go in deep depression if they draft Daniels, not me.

 

But this would depress me a lot -- it would test my trust the process thoughts.  But lol, I am not worried about it.

Edited April 16 by Skinsinparadise

[Bifflog]

You know, at least if a GM is wrong we can fire them eventually.  No one gets fired from here (for football takes, anyways.)

[Ghost of]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't get why some are so startled by different takes coming from different scouts, love, hate, somewhere in between.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  It's not like we all agree with each others takes on this thread or the draft thread.  We make some emotional proclamations too.

 

I like to bring up Terry McLaurin, not to pick on you, we all get some wrong but about how polarizing he was.  Strong emotions.  I recall it well because I had to spend a lot of time defending that pick and not just to you.  two other people on the draft thread posted "Terry McLaurin sucks.".  Now in a vaccuum those posts look idiotic.  But in fairness, its just real time opinion, that's all.  People get em wrong and get em right.  The "experts" are mortal.    But we here are mortal too.   

 

To say our criteria is better or heck when we have strong opinions about a player then in that case we are absolutely right because our conviction is that strong as we know is absurd even though it doesn't feel that way in real time.

He's not saying that he thinks they're stupid because they're wrong. It goes back to having bizarre takes, bad player comparisons, things that suggest the guy didn't spend a minute watching film, etc.  

[mh86]

Personally, I don’t see the big deal of lumping top 30 visits together, especially this year. We’ve already met with these QBs a few times and had our one on ones. Hell, Peter’s was at Mayes practices when he was still with the 9ers. What more are they going to ask them that will sway their pick? What’s your favorite cereal? Besides some of these other players may end up being day 2-3 picks and it’s good to see how they will all interact with each other so you know who may be good fits 

 

edit to add, Cinnamon Toast Crunch 

Edited April 16 by mh86

[MartinC]

21 hours ago, illone said:

 

 

 

Should San Fran have taken Aaron Rodgers instead?

 

Another way to frame the question: Does WHERE you go matter?

 

I think most sane football minds would say "yes", Rodgers should have been the pick there. I thought so at the time and still think so now. I was in shock that Arod sat in the green room for so long. One of NFLs biggest mistakes ever. If only Green bay would have taken Jason Candle instead, maybe he would have ended up in Washington, but I digress...

 

To add another layer to it, of course nobody knows how their careers would have turned out had they gone to different teams. Arod could have struggled had he been thrown out there too early. My guess is he would have more super bowls, but does Shanny even get hired there if Arod plays well?

 

 

The situation a QB is drafted into and how they are developed matters a massive amount. To your specific question/point above I recall watching Rodgers play in the preseason of his rookie year. He was awful - looked like a deer in headlights. If he'd been asked/forced to play early who knows how his career would have gone - he certainly looked like he would have struggled a lot as a rookie. Instead he got to sit and learn for basically 3 full seasons before he started in his 4th year. 

 

Impossible to say how things would have changed of course - but high probability things would have changed in multiple ways.

[lavar1156]

8 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Rich Eisen on the Commanders unusual tactic of bringing all the quarterbacks in on the same day for a group free for all interview followed by a furious last man wins it all game of murderball…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That was a whole lot of nothing.

[Ghost of]

Just now, mh86 said:

Personally, I don’t see the big deal of lumping top 30 visits together, especially this year. We’ve already met with these QBs a few times and had our one on ones. Hell, Peter’s was at Mayes practices when he was still with the 9ers. What more are they going to ask them that will sway their pick? What’s your favorite cereal? Besides some of these other players may end up being day 2-3 picks and it’s good to see how they will all interact with each other so you know who may be good fits 

The Cereal question's importance has already been addressed by Prince

"You don't even know what kind of cereal I like?...Wrong! Cap'n Crunch..with soymilk...

because cows are for calves, you'd probably take me for half.

You don't love me, you're a faker, you just want me for my acres"

[CommanderInTheRye]

4 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

I mean the guy's middle name is Draft, this lunacy must be accurate:

 

 

 

 

Based on those picks he’s predicting his middle name should be “Daft”.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

He's not saying that he thinks they're stupid because they're wrong. It goes back to having bizarre takes, bad player comparisons, things that suggest the guy didn't spend a minute watching film, etc.  

 

I see some bizzare takes on the draft thread as to how someone sees a player including comps compared to how I see them.  But I often don't take them at face value.

 

The bad comps to me are often just ways to take shots, that's all.

 

Like for example when Mueller compares Maye to Mac Jones.  Do i really think he thinks they are the same player?  Nope.  It's just his way to say in his mind Maye's arm is overrated so he sticks an average to below average arm comparison.

 

Someone wants to stick Bryce Young at Daniels, its a shot.  It's not because the scout has no idea that Daniels is taller.  It's because Young has struggled.

 

The idea that Drake Maye needs to sit that some say -- also a shot.  Just like some here who say that if we draft Daniels we need to load up on the O line-and WR in a bigger way than if we take Maye -- its a shot at Daniels.  It's not that i think they don't get that a QB with wheels often takes pressure off of versus adding pressure on the O line or at worse its a wash typically -- but making the point that one player needs a lot more help is a shot at that player disguised as making an off hand statement.

 

My point is odd comps and dramatic statements I often find as colorful ways to take a dig.  Be like me saying a ethnic restaurant I don't like is akin to McDonalds.  It's not that I don't get that the type of food is different but the idea is say its junk food quality not real restaurant quality.

 

 

Edited April 16 by Skinsinparadise