The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

JJ is not a high first round pick. That is the most ridiculous **** I’ve ever seen. You do not have a stud quarterback and then not let him throw the ****ing football. The reason they didn’t let him throw more is because he ain’t that great.

Edited April 4 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[FootballZombie]

8 minutes ago, Blanka said:

See it’s things like this that make me believe Keim isn’t just getting outside talk on leans and whatnot. He’s so cautious normally that for him to be so adamant against JJ being in discussions. It’s hard for me to believe the JD slant is only from around the league talk. 

 

He goes out of his way to say his sources on Maye and JD are from around the NFL.

 

but that JJ stuff pretty much HAS TO come from a primary team source.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Blanka said:

See it’s things like this that make me believe Keim isn’t just getting outside talk on leans and whatnot. He’s so cautious normally that for him to be so adamant against JJ being in discussions. It’s hard for me to believe the JD slant is only from around the league talk. 

 

Exactly.  Some here are acting like Keim spitballs or is easily played.  None of that is true though.

 

He's super cautious about offering any nuggets.  Cooley used to make fun of how Keim is so cautious to say anything unless he has 7 sources backing him up.

 

This is coming from me who is firmly in the Maye camp.  But I guess am a bit different than some of the Maye people here in that I won't be angry or dissappointed if they took Daniels.

 

And my only point is for those who think no way they are taking Daniels.  At a minimum it feels like a real possibility.  I am not saying it happens.  But at a minimum, I don't think its some outlandish ridiculous possibility where we shouldn't brace ourselves for it happening.  Keim at a minimum has been telegraphing it could happen.  Just like he did say Quinn is a real possibility as HC from pretty much from the jump.

 

Ditto him referencing he doesn't think McCarthy at #2 but wouldn't rule it out in a trade down.  He has had to hear something.  He doesn't throw stuff against the wall.  Other reporters throw stuff against the wall but not Keim. 

 

 

Edited April 4 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[wit33]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

  Cooley used to make fun of how Keim is so cautious to say anything unless he has 7 sources backing him up.

 

Uh oh... whenever this Cooley comment comes up, Bruce Arians' book is bound to get some mention soon! Jk. 
 

Also, come over to the good side and welcome Jayden Daniels—I know you've got it in you. The uber-elite athletic QB is about to break through, just like MJ did for shooting guards in the early 90s. Ahead of the curve! 

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Uh oh... whenever this Cooley comment comes up, Bruce Arians' book is bound to get some mention soon! Jk. 
 

Also, come over to the good side and welcome Jayden Daniels—I know you've got it in you. The uber-elite athletic QB is about to break through, just like MJ did for shooting guards in the early 90s. Ahead of the curve! 

 

If we draft Daniels I'll be very disappointed on draft day, and think the pick was a mistake, but then the next day I'll shift to fully supporting him and hoping I'm wrong. I think most Maye advocates feel the same way.

 

And the "uber athletic" running type QB is nothing new. There have been some over the last 20 years. Vick, Cam, RG3, Lamar, Richardson. But most teams prefer pocket passers first, and none of those guys won anything or had especially long careers. So "about to break through" is a bit misleading.

Edited April 4 by mistertim

[DiscoBob]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

If we draft Daniels I'll be very disappointed on draft day, and think the pick was a mistake, but then the next day I'll shift to fully supporting him and hoping I'm wrong. I think most Maye advocates feel the same way.

 

...I'm in the same boat, except, even if we draft Maye, Ill have to mourn the lost decade of Penis jokes we could've had with Penix....

[DogofWar1]

Just now, DiscoBob said:

 

...I'm in the same boat, except, even if we draft Maye, Ill have to mourn the lost decade of Penis jokes we could've had with Penix....

Best case scenario is the Giants trade back up into the 1st for him.

[DiscoBob]

1 minute ago, DogofWar1 said:

Best case scenario is the Giants trade back up into the 1st for him.

 

...that would be a dick move.... 🤫

[Warhead36]

38 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

JJ is not a high first round pick. That is the most ridiculous **** I’ve ever seen. You do not have a stud quarterback and then not let him throw the ****ing football. The reason they didn’t let him throw more is because he ain’t that great.

That's kinda how I see it too. 

 

Like Daniels I can get. I don't agree, but I get it. 

 

JJ freaking McCarthy #2 overall though? Dude who threw like 10 passes a game? I just...I can't man. I would IMMEDIATELY be questioning if Peters is the guy and if either Maye or Daniels has a great rookie year, he gets immediately put on the hot seat(unless McCarthy also balls out, then I happily eat crow).

[Voice_of_Reason]

I still don’t think Peters has said anything to anybody.  The reporting might be right.  
 

Or it might not be.

 

But the thing I think I know is there are probably 3 people who know: Peters, Quinn, Harris.  There are 2 who might know: Newmark and Kliff.

 

I don’t think any of them are saying anything to anybody. Certainly not Schefter. 
 

Remember when the entire league said Ben Johnson was going to be the coach and the entire league was expecting it and we ended up with Quinn?

 

It might be Daniels.

 

It might not.

 

We’ll know in about 3 weeks and 30 minutes from now.  

Edited April 4 by Voice_of_Reason

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Uh oh... whenever this Cooley comment comes up, Bruce Arians' book is bound to get some mention soon! Jk. 
 

Also, come over to the good side and welcome Jayden Daniels—I know you've got it in you. The uber-elite athletic QB is about to break through, just like MJ did for shooting guards in the early 90s. Ahead of the curve! 

 

Actually Arians and Keim-Cooley rarely converge.  😎 

 

As for Maye-Daniels.  I am not really on anyone's side or against another.   I am one of the people here (not sure how many are with me, i know plenty aren't) who would be jazzed about either one.    And by that i don't mean I'd suck it up and accept it and warm up to it.  I mean actually excited.

 

But as preferece, zero chance, nada, I'd move off from Maye to Daniels.  I spent a lot of time watching and reading about both.    I dig both players for different reasons.  But I have more concerns about Daniels and Maye's traits excite me more.  

 

Where I disagree with some of the Maye critics.  I don't think he's inaccurate.  And I disagree that he's a bad decision maker. IMO his accuracy is good.  But on the first level he can miss some throws that look super easy and off platform, he can look like Mahomes on one play and then on another look wildly off.    But this dude can sling it.  His arm is special.  Makes throws on all three levels.  And his touch and the way he varies the speed on his throws is awesome.  And for a dude that size, he has some wheels.

 

Where I disagree with some of Daniels critics.  I don't think he's overrated as a runner with bad vision or is a straight line runner.   I think he's a great runner with plenty of wiggle and good vision.  Also I disagree about him having a ceiling that's far behind Maye.  I like Maye's ceiling better.  But i don't find Daniels ceiling a mile behind.

 

Every now and then I mention raising kids as Commanders fans and its not easy.  It's been a losing ride and also a boring ride for them.  This team doesn't get national play much.  They were at their height of fandom in 2012 when RG3 was electric.  My son already prefers Daniels.  He loves Lamar Jackson.  It took effort from me to keep him from switching to the Ravens.    I recall reading an article once about how Lamar has been a big part of helping convert Washington fans, especially young ones to Baltimore and especially helping young ones in the DMV who didn't have a team yet decide to root for Baltimore.

 

Some say that's just because the Ravens are better.  Yeah that's part of it.  But I recall listening to a Ravens reporter talk about how the Ravens pre-Lamar had a stage where their fans were a bit bored by the team and Lamar helped reignite the fire some.    That's my long-winded way of saying Daniels in theory at least would be a lot of fun.  But can he stay healthy?  I want them to draft Maye but it wouldn't bother me one whit if they took Daniels. And unlike some here, I think there is a shot it happens and if it does I don't think it would be because this FO is dense.

 

Edited April 4 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

If there is a divide in the org between Maye and Daniels I wonder if it's split cleanly, eg: scouts and GMAP are for Maye and coaches are for Daniels, or if it's more scattered with some scouts and coaches being for Maye and some being for Daniels.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

If there is a divide in the org between Maye and Daniels I wonder if it's split cleanly, eg: scouts and GMAP are for Maye and coaches are for Daniels, or if it's more scattered with some scouts and coaches being for Maye and some being for Daniels.

I could see Quinn preferring Daniels because as a defensive guy he finds mobile QBs harder to gameplan for, but Kingsbury preferring Maye because his arm allows him to scheme up ways to attack the entire field and doesn't have to rely on QB mobility(which means your entire offense goes to crap if the QB gets hurt or loses some of that mobility).

 

As far as scouts/FO goes, they're probably mostly leaning Maye. He's just the scout's dream when you talk about age, measurables/traits, etc. And remember that Peters loved Lance(whether he loved him enough to push for trading 3 #1s for him or not is an unknown but it is reported he liked him a lot), so its likely that he prefers taking a big home run swing at a QB and trust that his coaches can develop him.

[BayouBrave86]

I stand by my belief that Daniels is going to be a better version of Lamar Jackson in that he can actually be an elite passer. He won't rely on his running ability as much as Lamar but I think he's going to be an absolute force in this league by year 2 or 3 and is going to have a Stroud like impact for whatever team drafts him next season. 

 

He just needs to avoid an injury. 😎 I'm good with drafting Maye too.  Don't think you can go wrong with either one. I also think Brian Thomas Jr. is going to be the better pro between him and Nabers. Hope he falls to Buffalo to see him paired with Allen. 

Edited April 5 by BayouBrave86

[CommanderInTheRye]

33 minutes ago, mistertim said:

If there is a divide in the org between Maye and Daniels I wonder if it's split cleanly, eg: scouts and GMAP are for Maye and coaches are for Daniels, or if it's more scattered with some scouts and coaches being for Maye and some being for Daniels.

 

I'd love to be on the inside of Commanders Park for this too. 

 

If I know Dan Quinn there may well be heated discussions prior to the final decision-- that's altogether a good thing. I wouldn't trust our process if everyone agreed from day one.

 

But once the final decision is made I guarantee you DQ will make sure that everyone in that building is comfortable, committed, and focused, to do everything in their power to ensure that this young man has the best opportunity to succeed.

 

We will present a united front and the public will never know what went on behind the scenes.

 

.

Edited April 5 by CommanderInTheRye

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

Qualifying that something is how you feel doesn’t make it less wrong. Feelings and opinions can be objectively wrong even if they’re acknowledged to be a minority opinion. 

 

Okay the way I see it then. I was right about Wentz, Grappolo, Carr, R. Wilson, Turbs and yet I am the one who doesn't understand or watch football lol

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

JJ is not a high first round pick. That is the most ridiculous **** I’ve ever seen. You do not have a stud quarterback and then not let him throw the ****ing football. The reason they didn’t let him throw more is because he ain’t that great.

 

The reason they didn’t let him throw more is because he ain’t that great.

 

Not neccesarily true.

 

McCarthy could be a great passer who by circumstances beyond his control simply never got the opportunity to display his expertise.

 

"You play the game to win."

 

The strength of Michigan is their huge offensive line that dominates in run blocking.

 

If you have an overwhelming strength, one that opponents can't stop, and you win every game by focusing almost exclusively on this strength, why would you resort to any other tactic?

 

The ultimate goal is to win, not to prepare a college qb to play in the NFL.

 

EDIT:

 

It is within the realm of possibility that McCarthy is a great passer, but we will never know until he gets the chance to actually show it which won't come until he is in the NFL.

 

 

Edited April 5 by CommanderInTheRye

[kingdaddy]

All things considered, if Maye, Daniels and McCarthy all have that "dog mentality" and leadership skill on top of everything else, I think Daniels is the pick. He's just too explosive with his legs and can make all of the throws. He's Randall Cunningham but faster. Randall was incredible to watch and had little to no coaching, Daniels will be coached up by a great staff. Both Randall and Daniels are (were) 6'4 with Randall weighing 216 lbs. 

Sign me up for Daniels, he's my pick. 

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

All things considered, if Maye, Daniels and McCarthy all have that "dog mentality" and leadership skill on top of everything else, I think Daniels is the pick. He's just too explosive with his legs and can make all of the throws. He's Randall Cunningham but faster. Randall was incredible to watch and had little to no coaching, Daniels will be coached up by a great staff. Both Randall and Daniels are (were) 6'4 with Randall weighing 216 lbs. 

Sign me up for Daniels, he's my pick. 

Except he hasn't shown he can make all the throws. He doesn't make anticipatory throws down the middle into tight windows.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

7 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

The reason they didn’t let him throw more is because he ain’t that great.

 

Not neccesarily true.

 

McCarthy could be a great passer who by circumstance never got an opportunity to display his expertise.

 

"You play the game to win."

 

The strength of Michigan is their huge offensive line that dominates in run blocking.

 

If you have an overwhelming strength, one that opponents can't stop, and you win every game by focusing almost exclusively on this strength, why would you resort to any other tactic?

 

The ultimate goal is to win, not to prepare a college qb to play in the NFL.

 

EDIT:

 

It is within the realm of possibility that McCarthy is a great passer, but we will never know until he gets the chance to actually show it which won't come until he is in the NFL.

 

 

Yeah, I mean I get it. That’s the thinking and that’s the reasoning a lot of people keep saying, but I don’t think that that’s ever actually been true in practice. If a team has an awesome rushing attack and an awesome passing attack, they do both and they complement each other Making them even more dangerous. Imagine how good Michigan run game would have been if they weren’t facing stacked boxes all the time.

[Jumbo]

1 hour ago, BayouBrave86 said:

I stand by my belief that Daniels is going to be a better version of Lamar Jackson in that he can actually be an elite passer. He won't rely on his running ability as much as Lamar but I think he's going to be an absolute force in this league by year 2 or 3 and is going to have a Stroud like impact for whatever team drafts him next season. 

 

He just needs to avoid an injury. 😎 I'm good with drafting Maye too.  Don't think you can go wrong with either one. I also think Brian Thomas Jr. is going to be the better pro between him and Nabers. Hope he falls to Buffalo to see him paired with Allen. 

 

I have some doubt about that first sentence coming true, but can see it being possible enough. That would be cool for we fans.

 

Lamar's had his share of injuries and has yet to make it to a sb but I'm a big fan of his and see him as elite as Burrows or Allen. I really like Herbert too but I need to see SD do more as a team to help move him up to those other guys.

 

So if JD comes through as being lamar level i would call that a huge success for any team that gets him.

 

If it's us I'll be a little disappointed it's not Maye as I see things but that will pass soon enough since I think JD has way more potential then anyone we've had since rg3.

 

I say all that will full acceptance that my ranking of the two can easily be in the wrong order of preference.

 

I don't think the optimistic scenario you describe for him is some far reach.

 

I still favor Mayes current strengths over him and that includes what I envision as an even higher potential over a longer period of time 

 

But I wouldn't advise anyone to bet $100 on my take unless they wouldn't miss the hundred.😁

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

All things considered, if Maye, Daniels and McCarthy all have that "dog mentality" and leadership skill on top of everything else, I think Daniels is the pick. He's just too explosive with his legs and can make all of the throws. He's Randall Cunningham but faster. Randall was incredible to watch and had little to no coaching, Daniels will be coached up by a great staff. Both Randall and Daniels are (were) 6'4 with Randall weighing 216 lbs. 

Sign me up for Daniels, he's my pick. 

Cunningham had a rocket arm.  Daniels does not.  But he can play in the context of the offense better.  
 

Can Daniels make all the throws? Maybe. I’m not sure.  I haven’t seen him throw into tight windows in the middle of the field or drive the ball to the outside.  
 

Maye can do those things.  But he’s inconsistent.  He’s got a much better arm, but worse mechanics and more inconsistency.  
 

If Maye puts it all together he could be a top 5 QB.  He has the arm and the athleticism to be as good as anybody in the league. 
 

I think Daniels floor is higher, but his ceiling is lower.  He's also more ready now and closer to his ceiling.  
 

I don’t think he can be Lamar.  Can he be something approximating Hurts, just a bit different? I mean, he’s not going to Tush Push anybody at 200lbs.  
 

He can be very good.  He probably bad the floor of being good. 
 

Maye could be great.  Or he could be a backup in 3 years because he can’t get over the inconsistency. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

 I'm a big lavar fan

If you’re so big of a fan, why didn’t you get his name right? It’s spelled LeVar.