The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[HigSkin]

3 hours ago, RWJ said:

 

 

To me these tweets show that Drake has been and will be the pick at #2.  That's my take from Keim.  The first tweet was a repost by Keim.

 

 

 

Seems like a bunch of smoke that way now that the draft is done.

 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

32 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

My curiosity has now been peaked, which is a crying shame and not a position I wanted to be in.  But I am now interested in taking a look at Daniels and Maye, at least a little bit, just so I can see how they compare.  But I'm only going to watch one game per QB.  It took about an hour to go through the Michigan vs. Alabama game play by play.  I have a job, a wife, 2 kids, 2 cats, and other responsibilities, so my time is limited.  And yes, it's the cats that need the most attention. I was led to believe the Michigan vs. Alabama game was going to be on the "good" side. It wasn't, but my intention was to watch a "good" game.

 

So, I don't follow college football.  I ask you all, what games from Maye and Daniels would be considered their best games.  And ones that have cutups like the one for McCarthy which just shows all the pass plays, that would be ideal.  If I can get a good consensus, I'll try and go through it this week at some point.  

 

NOTE: I'm not going to bother with Williams.  Until I hear there's a chance the Bears don't take him, I'm not considering him an option.  

 

 

 

 

"...what games from Maye and Daniels would be considered their best games..."

 

I'm not a big college football guy, but the first game of Jayden Daniels that I watched live was his game against Florida back in November.

 

It is not hyperbole to say that the whole game was a human hilight reel. I fell in love with the kid immediately. He just kept doing amazing-- almost inhuman things (to be fair he also did some knucklehead things too).

 

As far as Drake Maye goes I've watched a few of his games after the NFL season ended, but none of them stand out to me like that LSU vs Florida game did for Jayden.

 

Perhaps, someone else can give you an informed reccomendation for Drake's best game.

 

Good luck. I look forward to reading your analysis.

 

EDIT:

 

Watch the whole game, not just the hilights on YouTube, if you can.

 

 

 

Edited March 4 by CommanderInTheRye

[zCommander]

On 3/1/2024 at 11:24 AM, Warhead36 said:

They absolutely should consider all options. It'd be criminal not to.

 

But at the end of the day, taking the blue chip QB in year 1 of your new regime is just the no brainer move.

 

Keep it simple.

 

But it is not always as black and white like one thinks it should be. There is still the possibility the Bears could go Maye and don't want to fiddle with another running QB and one that has diva attitude(s). If that happens the question is will the Commanders then go Williams or trade the #2 spot for a haul to a team who is willing to sell the farm for him?

 

Edited March 4 by zCommander

[FootballZombie]

11 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

I'm not a big college football guy, but the first game of Jayden Daniels that I watched live was his game against Florida back in November.

 

It is not hyperbole to say that the whole game was a human hilight reel. I fell in love with the kid immediately. He just kept doing amazing-- almost inhuman things (to be fair he also did some knucklehead things too).

 

Florida will be the game everyone jumps to for JD. Its hard not to when the dude went out there and put up a 1-of-1 statline that has never been seen before in college football.

 

Oddly enough when he interviewed w/ Chris Simms at the combine he was asked what one game he would want teams to review to showcase himself and he chose Miss St. Not a bad choice either since he has a big consecutive completion streak to open the game and ended up w/ an 88% completion percentage.

 

 

 

With Maye there is an issue of whether you wanna stick w/ 2023 or jump back to 2022. If you allow yourself to go back, he has a much heartier selection of "great games" to choose from. 2023 feels like slim pickings in comparison.

 

I liked his game vs Pitt from 2022. It showed a lot of the things that make him a big time prospect. The ability to throw at differing velocities, a good rushing outing and a game that they were behind in for a good while that forced them to put the pedal down on O. It was not some wire-to-wire blowout where he just got to put up numbies, even if the final score looks a tad misleading.

[ThatNFLChick]

34 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

My curiosity has now been peaked, which is a crying shame and not a position I wanted to be in.  But I am now interested in taking a look at Daniels and Maye, at least a little bit, just so I can see how they compare.  But I'm only going to watch one game per QB.  It took about an hour to go through the Michigan vs. Alabama game play by play.  I have a job, a wife, 2 kids, 2 cats, and other responsibilities, so my time is limited.  And yes, it's the cats that need the most attention. I was led to believe the Michigan vs. Alabama game was going to be on the "good" side. It wasn't, but my intention was to watch a "good" game.

 

So, I don't follow college football.  I ask you all, what games from Maye and Daniels would be considered their best games.  And ones that have cutups like the one for McCarthy which just shows all the pass plays, that would be ideal.  If I can get a good consensus, I'll try and go through it this week at some point.  

 

NOTE: I'm not going to bother with Williams.  Until I hear there's a chance the Bears don't take him, I'm not considering him an option.  

 

 

 

Here are the ones for Daniels

 

Vs Ole Miss

https://youtu.be/9Zmu5u_juFU?si=bOoNjLcZ9ghShNbP

 

Vs Mizzou

https://youtu.be/QoFOBU-ZqXc?si=5a79wwWNr5LJ333v

 

Vs Auburn

https://youtu.be/XYnJIx4mo4E?si=CeVQdhVbjmfir0kw

 

Vs Mississippi State

https://youtu.be/8Zh_cwtibJQ?si=-uf3OEcH5SV1A2Xb

 

 

[The Consigliere]

15 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I think we know they will all go where they are selected. I think the point is that whether they are the 1st pick or 3rd is mattering less and less because more people are realizing its all about the situation you are drafted to that largely determines your success.

 

And he said it to Simms and Florio when they asked him about people talking about him possibly going #1

 

 

That's too bad, I believe you're about to land in the worst situation of the 3 teams picking QB's at the top. I like the thinking though. Far too many QB's/prospects forget how critical landing spot is, and fixate on the ego piece of going high, forgetting most teams with top picks are typically total --- and damn near hopeless. We aren't hopeless, but we're a terrible landing spot in the short term, anyway. New England is even worse in most ways other than the defense. If he lands with NE, it's gonna be horrible, for multiple seasons. 

[Est.1974]

9 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

That’s interesting because during the combine the main thing that had traction in the rumor mill relating to us was Washington/Maye being hot.

[SkinsNatsFan]

2 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

That’s interesting because during the combine the main thing that had traction in the rumor mill relating to us was Washington/Maye being hot.

 

 

 

[actorguy1]

Craig Hoffman on the latest Keim Report:

 

As the All 22 footage is becoming more available to the media for Maye and Daniels you start seeing the details. Many times, Maye has no one open is getting pressured, and has to start scrambling to buy time where as Daniels is calmly standing in a perfect pocket with 2 to 3 open receivers and decides to take off running for 20 to 30 yards as everyone in the stands and watching on TV oohs and ahhs. This is why the media is starting to become more defined on Maye over Daniels as well as the gap between Daniels and McCarthy narrowing.

[HTTRDynasty]

7 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

Craig Hoffman on the latest Keim Report:

 

As the All 22 footage is becoming more available to the media for Maye and Daniels you start seeing the details. Many times, Maye has no one open is getting pressured, and has to start scrambling to buy time where as Daniels is calmly standing in a perfect pocket with 2 to 3 open receivers and decides to take off running for 20 to 30 yards as everyone in the stands and watching on TV oohs and ahhs. This is why the media is starting to become more defined on Maye over Daniels as well as the gap between Daniels and McCarthy narrowing.

Yeah, I saw a JP Finlay interview with Daniel Jeremiah the other day and DJ mentioned how when you freeze the screeen at the top of Maye’s drop, oftentimes there’s just nowhere for Maye to go and no way for him to be right before pressure gets there. 
 

It aligns with the timing of actual NFL evaluators and coaches beginning to dig into the film, as they tend to be a lot less susceptible to the oohs and ahhs of spectacular plays (or lack thereof) without considering the context behind it. 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

5 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

That's too bad, I believe you're about to land in the worst situation of the 3 teams picking QB's at the top. I like the thinking though. Far too many QB's/prospects forget how critical landing spot is, and fixate on the ego piece of going high, forgetting most teams with top picks are typically total --- and damn near hopeless. We aren't hopeless, but we're a terrible landing spot in the short term, anyway. New England is even worse in most ways other than the defense. If he lands with NE, it's gonna be horrible, for multiple seasons. 

 

I don’t know, I think Eliot Wolf is legit and has an excellent pedigree. He’ll have NE back in playoff contention as quickly as I think Peters can do for us if they get the QB position right. 
 

FWIW, here are the NE and WAS rankings in DVOA over the past few years. I’m sure their fans would argue their team is in a better spot roster-wise than ours is right now (even though they don’t have many players with household names like we do with Allen or Terry):

 

2021: 

 NE - 8th

 WAS - 25th

 

2022:

 NE - 16th

 WAS - 22nd

 

2023:

 NE - 27th

 WAS - 31st

[CommanderInTheRye]

10 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Florida will be the game everyone jumps to for JD. Its hard not to when the dude went out there and put up a 1-of-1 statline that has never been seen before in college football.

 

Oddly enough when he interviewed w/ Chris Simms at the combine he was asked what one game he would want teams to review to showcase himself and he chose Miss St. Not a bad choice either since he has a big consecutive completion streak to open the game and ended up w/ an 88% completion percentage.

 

 

 

With Maye there is an issue of whether you wanna stick w/ 2023 or jump back to 2022. If you allow yourself to go back, he has a much heartier selection of "great games" to choose from. 2023 feels like slim pickings in comparison.

 

I liked his game vs Pitt from 2022. It showed a lot of the things that make him a big time prospect. The ability to throw at differing velocities, a good rushing outing and a game that they were behind in for a good while that forced them to put the pedal down on O. It was not some wire-to-wire blowout where he just got to put up numbies, even if the final score looks a tad misleading.

 

 

A couple of things:

 

I haven't watched any '22 games from either player as I wanted to fairly evaluate there best outings their final year in college.

 

I think going back could be useful as long as you do it for both players as well as abanalyzing one game for each player in '23.

 

I  used my youtubetv account to watch the entire uncut broadcast, but it only goes back through last year.

 

If you go back to '22 for Maye, to be fair to both players I think you should also look at a great '22 game for Daniels as well as one great '23 game for each player (if you can find the time).

 

@BayouBrave would likely be an excellent source for Jayden's best 2022 game.

 

This might even help us diagnose the cause(s) and veracity of what's been referred to as Maye's diminished play  in '23 vs '22.

 

I'm really looking forward to your final results VOR.

 

If you don't have youtubetv the youtube link for the LSU vs Florida game of the ages is listed below.

 

It is a three point game at the half with Jayden overcoming cracked ribs from a brutal hit on a td run to absolutely take things over in the second half.

 

 

 

 

Disclaimer:

 

Even  after the apparent combine push back against Jayden Daniels as the 2nd pick (which could be more disinformation or actual hard cold fact) combined with Jayden refusing to be measured, I still find myself waking up to occasional dreams of  him tearing up things for the burgundy and gold from time to time.

 

Though I am resigned to this as nothing more than the idle dreams of an old timer that have little likelihood of occuring.

 

 

Edited March 4 by CommanderInTheRye

[ST_DaGoat21]

For those that aren’t local, EB from the Junkies mentioned an interesting rumor he heard over the weekend.

 

The just of it was that Jayden doesn’t like Adam Peters.  Supposedly Aiyuk put Jayden in touch with Peters last year to gauge whether or not he should enter the draft and Peters told him that he wouldn’t draft him before the 5th round and that his skills would have a hard time translating to the NFL.

 

Not sure how reliable his source was, but he prefaced it with saying he doesn’t have a reason to lie about it.  I don’t take much from it other than the point about JD hating AP.  But I think a late round grade is what most evaluators had on him after the 2022 season.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Here are the ones for Daniels

 

Vs Ole Miss

https://youtu.be/9Zmu5u_juFU?si=bOoNjLcZ9ghShNbP

 

Vs Mizzou

https://youtu.be/QoFOBU-ZqXc?si=5a79wwWNr5LJ333v

 

Vs Auburn

https://youtu.be/XYnJIx4mo4E?si=CeVQdhVbjmfir0kw

 

Vs Mississippi State

https://youtu.be/8Zh_cwtibJQ?si=-uf3OEcH5SV1A2Xb

 

 

I’m going to watch one.  Which one did you think he played the best in?

[CommanderInTheRye]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m going to watch one.  Which one did you think he played the best in?

 

 

While Jayden played well in several games It would be criminal for someone who wants to see his best game to not  watch the LSU vs Florida game that is universally acclaimed as his best performance.

 

I left the link in my previous post.

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 minutes ago, ST_DaGoat21 said:

For those that aren’t local, EB from the Junkies mentioned an interesting rumor he heard over the weekend.

 

The just of it was that Jayden doesn’t like Adam Peters.  Supposedly Aiyuk put Jayden in touch with Peters last year to gauge whether or not he should enter the draft and Peters told him that he wouldn’t draft him before the 5th round and that his skills would have a hard time translating to the NFL.

 

Not sure how reliable his source was, but he prefaced it with saying he doesn’t have a reason to lie about it.  I don’t take much from it other than the point about JD hating AP.  But I think a late round grade is what most evaluators had on him after the 2022 season.  

Nothing EB says is reliable.

 

And if in some bizarre universe Peters did say that to Daniels before the 2023 season, and Daniels still holds a grudge, that’s on Daniels.  If a scout had talked to Burrow before his senior season, they would have said something similar. Maybe not 5th round but he was slotted 3-4 or somewhere in there, and then was the consensus #1 overall pick. 
 

Things change.  If you ask for an opinion from a scout and he gives it, you can’t hold that opinion against the guy. 
 

That said, 98.7937% chance it never happened.  EB got drawn in during lying season and it’s nothing.  

[HTTRDynasty]

Couple interesting notes from the recent Breer article:
 

In interviewing then USC assistant Kliff Kingsbury for their offensive coordinator job in Los Angeles in January, the Bears did a ton of fact-finding. Kingsbury described a player beloved by his coaches and teammates, and also gave the Bears very real insight into Williams’s father, and how involved he was. The quarterback’s dad, Kingsbury told them, was sharp, and someone that Williams leaned on a lot business-wise. But the father left the football part to his kid; Kingsbury explained to Chicago he saw the dad maybe once last year at USC’s practice facility.
 

Commanders owner Josh Harris being in the quarterback interviews isn’t far out of line, I’d say. Remember, Buffalo Bills owner Terry Pegula was involved in similar processes in 2017 and ’18, and they wound up with Josh Allen. If things are working right, the billionaire in the room is simply serving as a valuable sounding board.

 

 

 

[spjunkies]

22 minutes ago, ST_DaGoat21 said:

For those that aren’t local, EB from the Junkies mentioned an interesting rumor he heard over the weekend.

 

The just of it was that Jayden doesn’t like Adam Peters.  Supposedly Aiyuk put Jayden in touch with Peters last year to gauge whether or not he should enter the draft and Peters told him that he wouldn’t draft him before the 5th round and that his skills would have a hard time translating to the NFL.

 

Not sure how reliable his source was, but he prefaced it with saying he doesn’t have a reason to lie about it.  I don’t take much from it other than the point about JD hating AP.  But I think a late round grade is what most evaluators had on him after the 2022 season.  

 

That seems like the biggest load of bs I've heard in a long time. If he's holding such a long-term grudge why even bother interviewing with the team last week?

[CommanderInTheRye]

Adam Peters played it straight with no chaser and did Jay Daniels a favor.

 

Daniels was not a likely first round qb after his '22 performance. Scouts did in fact say he was a late second day pick at best.

 

It was Daniels, who after hearing Adam Peters honest opinion decided to put in the work in the off season, who studied his playbook and came out executing the offense and leading his team to victiry  better than he had ever done before,.

 

He grinded his way from draft afterthought  to a consensus  top 5 selection. 

 

Had he come out last year, it would have been a mistake that would have cost him millions of dollars.

 

The first thing he should have done in our interview was to hug Peters and  thank him for looking him in the eye and giving him the straight dope.

 

 

Edited March 4 by CommanderInTheRye

[OtisDriftwood25]

I don’t get the narrative of Maye had bad talent around him. UNC is the third most talented team in ACC most years behind Clemson and FSU. We all just watched the combine. How many defensive players from ACC do you remember seeing? At some point last season UNC was a top 10 team.

 

Remember Tom Brady talent his first 3 super bowls or Patrick Mahomes just last year.

Edited March 4 by OtisDriftwood25

[mac8887]

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

My curiosity has now been peaked, which is a crying shame and not a position I wanted to be in.  But I am now interested in taking a look at Daniels and Maye, at least a little bit, just so I can see how they compare.  But I'm only going to watch one game per QB.  It took about an hour to go through the Michigan vs. Alabama game play by play.  I have a job, a wife, 2 kids, 2 cats, and other responsibilities, so my time is limited.  And yes, it's the cats that need the most attention. I was led to believe the Michigan vs. Alabama game was going to be on the "good" side. It wasn't, but my intention was to watch a "good" game.

 

So, I don't follow college football.  I ask you all, what games from Maye and Daniels would be considered their best games.  And ones that have cutups like the one for McCarthy which just shows all the pass plays, that would be ideal.  If I can get a good consensus, I'll try and go through it this week at some point.  

 

NOTE: I'm not going to bother with Williams.  Until I hear there's a chance the Bears don't take him, I'm not considering him an option.  

 

 

Jayden has amazing games littered throughout the season, but none of which have many throws that are going to make you oooh and aaah at his arm strength or ability to really squeeze the ball into a tight window consistently.
 

He will need to use timing, touch, and accuracy to be able to do consistently in the NFL.  I believe he can, but he hasn’t shown it consistently, mainly due to not being asked to, it’s not like he has proven to be a failure at it, so to say he can’t do it would be a lie.
 

the great thing about him is he has a lethal weapon to lean on while he learns to translate his game to the next level.

 

While I don’t think his boom potential is as high as Caleb or Drake do to his arm strength, his legs should keep him from busting barring injury , and he can potentially be a top 10 qb for 7 or 8 years, and then maybe a little of a drop off to middle of the pack once his legs start to go, unless he is able to become truly elite with his timing, accuracy, reading defense, and going through his reads, but that’s a bit much to expect and project on him.

 

 

 

When you look at Drake, at first look, you will oooh, and aaaah. The dude has amazing size and mobility for his size and a canon for an arm. He has proven that he will have no problem throwing into tight windows and all over the field. The dude has that kind of ability.

 

His problem is he locks onto guys to long quite often, and the big one is inconsistency with accuracy and his inconsistency at playing at a high level day in and day out and especially against tougher competition. Though it did happen against lesser competition as well.

 

He has some games where he looks like the second coming of John Elway, huge arm, making amazing tight window throws, and creating on the move and either gaining yards with his legs or buying time and making a great throw. He has that kind of potential. Top 5 qb in the league kind of potential.

 

But the next game he hovers around 50%-60% and throws a couple of picks, and isn’t even the best qb on the field, let alone the best player in the game, this didn’t happen with Jayden at all this year and it’s terrifying, this can’t happen in the pros.

 

Drake also has a propensity to make just really bad throws that leads to picks, the Clemson one comes to mind. He has a lot of throws that you make you want to shake him and yell what the heck are you doing, it makes you wonder if he has a problem seeing the field. Sam Howell did this a lot, and we know now that he just didn’t see the field very well.

 

He as all the talent in the world, and the physical tools to drool over, but his new coaches will need to find a way to figure out why he is so inconsistent game to game, sometimes, moment to moment, if he can’t consistently play at the high level he is capable of against college kids with less talent than he has, it will be much harder in the NFL.

 

If his coaches can figure this out, Drake could be a real gem, he has all the traits to be a top 10 qb in the league for pretty much his entire career.

 

Watch Jayden’s game against Florida, it really shows you what he is capable of, but will make you understand why so many worry about him throwing with anticipation into tight window, he just doesn’t do it very often. That way you can see his best and worse traits. You’ll be able to see how awesome he is while also see why some are worrying about his game translating.

 

With Maye watch the Virginia game. You get to see some truly amazing throws that make you think he is HIM and see why so many are drooling about his ability, while at the same time watching how inaccurate and inconsistent he can be, so much so that for a lot of the game he is getting outplayed by Tony Muskett.

 

I say these two games so that you can see some good and bad from both, people will try to knock me for suggesting the Florida game, saying there isn’t much bad in that one, but just watch the pace of some of Jayden’s balls and really try to watch his game with the mindset of his game translating to the NFL where the windows to throw are very small.

[ThatNFLChick]

53 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m going to watch one.  Which one did you think he played the best in?

 

Some will say Florida, but I think you should watch Ole Miss

[Going Commando]

29 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

I don’t get the narrative of Maye had bad talent around him. UNC is the third most talented team in ACC most years behind Clemson and FSU. We all just watched the combine. How many defensive players from ACC do you remember seeing? At some point last season UNC was a top 10 team.

 

Remember Tom Brady talent his first 3 super bowls or Patrick Mahomes just last year.

 

They were top 25 entirely because of Maye.  He was the incumbent best player in the ACC and that's what the polling rewarded.  Mac Brown is about to get sent off into the sunset because of his coaching and recruiting failures there.  The UNC OL and Receivers were terrible this year, and the only other good players Drake played with as a starter have been Josh Downs and Omarion Hampton.  There is a world of difference between that and what the other early round QBs from the past two years have gotten to play with. And yet Drake still made a ton of big plays.  His situation in college is similar to what Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson had.  He is the whole show.

[ThatNFLChick]

1 hour ago, actorguy1 said:

Craig Hoffman on the latest Keim Report:

 

As the All 22 footage is becoming more available to the media for Maye and Daniels you start seeing the details. Many times, Maye has no one open is getting pressured, and has to start scrambling to buy time where as Daniels is calmly standing in a perfect pocket with 2 to 3 open receivers and decides to take off running for 20 to 30 yards as everyone in the stands and watching on TV oohs and ahhs. This is why the media is starting to become more defined on Maye over Daniels as well as the gap between Daniels and McCarthy narrowing.

 

This doesn't make any sense at all. The media has had the All-22. Is he talking about podcast people? No way anyone believes people at NFL and ESPN did not have access. 

 

I assume he is not referring to actual talent evaluators but people like the ones he talked to on his show - podcasters. 

Edited March 4 by ThatNFLChick

[mac8887]

Just now, Going Commando said:

 

They were top 25 entirely because of Maye.  He was the incumbent best player in the ACC and that's what the polling rewarded.  Mac Brown is about to get sent off into the sunset because of his coaching and recruiting failures there.  The UNC OL and Receivers were terrible this year, and the only other good players Drake played with as a starter have been Josh Downs and Omarion Hampton.  There is a world of difference between that and what the other early round QBs from the past two years have gotten to play with. And yet Drake still made a ton of big plays.  His situation in college is similar to what Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson had.  He is the whole show.

I get that people on this board really like Maye, but to say that he didn’t have talent around him, is not true, especially compared to the teams they were playing against. 
 

People say he had no receivers this year but Tez Walker is about to be drafted in the 4th round at the latest.

 

On top of that, the qb is supposed to elevate the talent around him, and it was vice versa with Maye, the lesser talent made him lesser