The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[KDawg]

23 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I am so excited this morning that I couldn't give less of a **** about getting robbed by the refs last night. Those things happen. You know what doesn't happen? Finding a franchise QB in the fifth round? Finding one who can keep his cool when everybody is counting him out and calling for him to be benched. 

 

I had twetted Kevin Sheehan to watch our Comeback Kid bring us back because the Eagles had left too much time on the clock. 103 seconds. Way too much time for this guy. And he used every second. And scored. 

 

This is the makings of a new rivalry. 

not everyone wanted him benched.

 

Anyone who did was either way too reactionary or a fan of the previous QB.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

Anyone who did was either way too reactionary or a fan of the previous QB.

 

Speaking of which, I'd love to see Redacted in 2 weeks versus Howell.

 

In Sheehan's defense, I found him obnoxious when pushing Sam Darnold and trashing Wentz.  He was clearly wrong on Darnold but right on Wentz.

 

As to Howell, he hasn't struck me positive or negative but sort of lets see.  His negativity is he thinks ANY young QB will have ups and downs and you have to endure them so its tough to win in season 1.  I am much higher on Howell than that.  But I find Sheehan's take pretty harmless.

 

I'll give some props to Jay Gruden and Cooley.  Neither dude was that high on Howell before the season.  They wreen't negative either but lukewarm.  Both warmed up to him when they watched the season.  They weren't slaves to their prior thoughts.  And both defended Howell after this week and thought he'd be OK.

 

Jay also was down on Pickett before it was cool, at the start of the season.  So far he's been right.  But in Pickett's defense the season is still young.

 

I admit I enjoy that so far arguably Howell >> Pickett, Ridder.   The reason why I liked Howell better than both in that draft -- arm talent over Pickett.   I liked Ridder's intangibles but his accuracy was really sketchy.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

like @Voice_of_Reason likes to say if Rick Snider lands on a hard opinion, it must be true

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

I just rewatched the game tying TD. Holy crap what a throw. Didnt realize Dotson was actually pretty well covered but he fired it into the one spot only he could catch it. 
 

The kid can definitely ball. Really excited to see him grow/develop. 
 

I think last week was just running into a buzzsaw. Buffalo even held Miami to just 20 a week after they scored 70. 
 

I wanna see Howell eviscerate Chicago this Thursday.

[method man]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Speaking of which, I'd love to see Redacted in 2 weeks versus Howell.

 

In Sheehan's defense, I found him obnoxious when pushing Sam Darnold and trashing Wentz.  He was clearly wrong on Darnold but right on Wentz.

 

As to Howell, he hasn't struck me positive or negative but sort of lets see.  His negativity is he thinks ANY young QB will have ups and downs and you have to endure them so its tough to win in season 1.  I am much higher on Howell than that.  But I find Sheehan's take pretty harmless.

 

I'll give some props to Jay Gruden and Cooley.  Neither dude was that high on Howell before the season.  They wreen't negative either but lukewarm.  Both warmed up to him when they watched the season.  They weren't slaves to their prior thoughts.  And both defended Howell after this week and thought he'd be OK.

 

Jay also was down on Pickett before it was cool, at the start of the season.  So far he's been right.  But in Pickett's defense the season is still young.

 

I admit I enjoy that so far arguably Howell >> Pickett, Ridder.   The reason why I liked Howell better than both in that draft -- arm talent over Pickett.   I liked Ridder's intangibles but his accuracy was really sketchy.

I disagree on Sheehan. Yes the “wait and see” thing was his official take but, all offseason, he went about listing reasons why Howell wouldn’t workout. I don’t think I ever heard reasons for why it would.
 

The guy who took the perfect approach was Keim. Wait and see was his official take too but we got/have gotten a balanced approach from him

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

like @Voice_of_Reason likes to say if Rick Snider lands on a hard opinion, it must be true

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[Califan007 The Constipated]

16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Yeah, but is it your code? Your motto?...You weren't very clear in your post.

[Redwards]

For me, it's not how good a QB looks in his first year of playing.  

 

The REAL test is and always will be the SECOND YEAR.

 

Why?

 

Because that's the year that opposing defensive coordinators will be taking away what that QB does best.  They'll be working all offseason on taking away your strengths.  Now...what do you do?  Can you respond?  That's the real proof of whether you have your answer at QB.

 

RGIII looked incredible his first year.  Couldn't respond to what DCs took away from him.  He's just one of a million examples of this.  

 

Now, I'm not down on Sam in any way and I'm certainly not implying that Sam won't be able to respond next year (should he still be our starter).  I want to make that crystal clear.  But I also don't hop on a rookie (or rookie-esq, in Sam's case) QB's bandwagon until midway through their second season of playing with strong results.   

 

I'll enjoy what I'm seeing so far but I'm certainly not anointing the guy the franchise stud.  The NFL is just now finding out about this kid and what he does well.  The counters and adjustments in large will come next year.  

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Speaking of which, I'd love to see Redacted in 2 weeks versus Howell.

 

This seems like it has an excellent chance of happening. I don't want to see TH....Atlanta is terrible with Ridder. 

 

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

This seems like it has an excellent chance of happening. I don't want to see TH....Atlanta is terrible with Ridder. 

 

But does Smith think Atlanta is terrible?

[Thinking Skins]

25 minutes ago, Redwards said:

For me, it's not how good a QB looks in his first year of playing.  

 

The REAL test is and always will be the SECOND YEAR.

 

Why?

 

Because that's the year that opposing defensive coordinators will be taking away what that QB does best.  They'll be working all offseason on taking away your strengths.  Now...what do you do?  Can you respond?  That's the real proof of whether you have your answer at QB.

 

RGIII looked incredible his first year.  Couldn't respond to what DCs took away from him.  He's just one of a million examples of this.  

 

Now, I'm not down on Sam in any way and I'm certainly not implying that Sam won't be able to respond next year (should he still be our starter).  I want to make that crystal clear.  But I also don't hop on a rookie (or rookie-esq, in Sam's case) QB's bandwagon until midway through their second season of playing with strong results.   

 

I'll enjoy what I'm seeing so far but I'm certainly not anointing the guy the franchise stud.  The NFL is just now finding out about this kid and what he does well.  The counters and adjustments in large will come next year.  

That's kinda true but its what they say as long as there is no tape on a QB. 

 

QBs evolve and learn schemes and defenses and to read defenses. That doesn't change. A guy like Mac Jones whose mistakes were covered up by a coach and a running game and good team is more likely to be found out than a playmaker. 

[DJHJR86]

Great bounce back game from Sam and Bieniemy.  Called a fairly balanced game and Sam executed it well.  It's still too early to crown him as the guy going forward, but it's definitely trending upward.

[Voice_of_Reason]

55 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

This seems like it has an excellent chance of happening. I don't want to see TH....Atlanta is terrible with Ridder. 

 

They'd be worse with Hallock.  Because he can't, you know, throw the ball.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

They'd be worse with Hallock.  Because he can't, you know, throw the ball.  

 

Have you guys learned nothing about the football gods?...Just imagine this place if Hallock starts against us and the Falcons win. Jeebus. I probably will avoid this thread until 2025, everyone on it--both pro-and-anti Hallock--will be so damn obnoxious lol...

[Skinsinparadise]

I don't fear Heinicke even a little.  Bring him on.  it would be fun. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't fear Heinicke even a little.  Bring him on.  it would be fun. 

 

I don't fear him, either....but I do fear the football gods lol...They're like Loki, they live to cause chaos and mischief.

 

This thread:

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

I don't fear him, either....but I do fear the football gods lol...They're like Loki, they live to cause chaos and mischief.

 

This thread:

 

 

I hear you.

 

But I think it was Dan Synder who is now of course gone, he was the stupid and more evil version of Kang that provided the overhang of the football gods working against us. 

[philibusters]

I don't fear Heinicke, but I fear that Falcons run game quite a bit.  And while I don't fear Heinicke, with a strong run game behind him, I definitely think he can beat us.

[Voice_of_Reason]

13 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

Or gone for it in OT on 4th and 5. How could he trust his D at this point?

13 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

If we were closer we’d definitely go for it but at our own 30 its not worth the risk-reward.

So, I actually said we should have gone for it on 4th and 5 and considered it like the 2-point attempt.  You win or lose on that play, because punting the ball back to the Eagles, even with a good punt, they only need a FG and they have a kicker who can make it if he was standing at the 50 yard line from Wembley Stadium in London.  At best, they have to work it 40 yards for a legitimate FG attempt.  

 

Which is why I would have probably taken a TO and made that the last stand.  If it works, it works.  If it doesn't, you were punting and losing anyway.  

 

Kindof the same mentality of the 2-point try: if it works, you win, if it doesn't, you lose.  

 

 

13 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

This wasn't like last year's Philly game where it took everything going right while playing hide-a-Qb for them to win it. Hell if RR had made the correct decision and gone for 2 they probably win this one too.

The metrics say it's not even a 50/50 chance to convert a 2-point conversion.  So you're being a bit bullish on the odds there.  Also, I don't think THIS offense has figured out short yardage yet.  They tried the Logan Thomas thing twice, they've tried to run it, pass it, and none of it has been especially effective or repeatable.  

 

Maybe in a few weeks, but I get the distinct feeling EB is still trying to figure out short yardage.  I would have been fine if they went for it, but I'm fine with them not going for it also.  

13 hours ago, CobraCommander said:

The Bills defense brought TUa and the Dolphins back down to earth. We got sliced and diced by a buzzsaw. 

After the week 1 debacle, they look like the best team in the AFC.  

 

The problem for them is they often look this way in October.  It's January when they turn into a pumpkin.  Just like every good Bill's team.  I can't wait for them to lose in the playoffs at home and dance on their grave.  Bills Mafia can go shove it up their ass sideways.  

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Same comment as my Jay Gruden comments: what the hell has Jason Garrett ever done except fail to meet expectations with loaded teams to earn the right to have an "expert opinion."  Dude is a no-nothing, bottom of the barrel OC and worse HC who was appointed by Skeletor to coach a loaded team.  I actually think he and Jay Gruden are the same person.  Except Garrett had better talent to fail with.  

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Now his opinion, I value.  

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Speaking of which, I'd love to see Redacted in 2 weeks versus Howell.

Hallock, Please!

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

In Sheehan's defense, I found him obnoxious when pushing Sam Darnold and trashing Wentz.  He was clearly wrong on Darnold but right on Wentz.

 

As to Howell, he hasn't struck me positive or negative but sort of lets see.  His negativity is he thinks ANY young QB will have ups and downs and you have to endure them so its tough to win in season 1.  I am much higher on Howell than that.  But I find Sheehan's take pretty harmless.

I disagree.  In the takes I heard from Sheehan, he was overly advocating for Brissett and I think he was just cherishing the possibility of last week being the "real" Howell and being proven right.  I heard it in his podcast with Cooley, which is all I listen to of him now.  

 

He likes to be right.  And he thought he was going to be right.  And that made him giddy.  He did say he would give it a week or two more, but he was absolutely giddy at the prospect of putting 6 sacks on Howell (Cooley's number in the pod) and being right Ron should have started Brissett.  He also did a whole thing about Sam looking "small" out there as well.  He was planting seeds for when inevitably Sam got pounded by the Eagles, he could do his famous Sheehan "I told you so." 

 

Sadly, (for him), he can't do that.  Yet.  But I'm sure he's going to sow those seeds after every bad game.  He's become such a petty, have to be right, intolerable jack hole.  

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I'll give some props to Jay Gruden and Cooley.  Neither dude was that high on Howell before the season.  They wreen't negative either but lukewarm.  Both warmed up to him when they watched the season.  They weren't slaves to their prior thoughts.  And both defended Howell after this week and thought he'd be OK.

In what I listened to Cooley on Howell before the season, I think he was concerned about a few things: 1) propensity to hold the ball, 2) size as it relates to taking a pounding because of #1. 3) the unknown because of the system he played in in college. All of which were legitimate concerns.  Last week, Cooley was REALLY hard on Howell because of decision making.  Like, REALLY REALLY hard on him.  He put 6 sacks on Howell, and went through each play and said where the checkdown was, what he should have done, and which ones were dead easy, and what was really concerning.  He did say he thought a lot of it was correctable.  He also gave Sam a D, D+ for the game, said it was barely a passing grade, but he did enough to get a passing grade, and a lot of his issues were correctable.  He had a lot of "welcome to the NFL" plays he hasn't seen and needs to figure out 

 

Sheehan PROUDLY announced "I gave him an F." Again, petty, intolerable jack hole.    

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Jay also was down on Pickett before it was cool, at the start of the season.  So far he's been right.  But in Pickett's defense the season is still young.

If you pick enough things, even if you're dumb as rocks, you'll get something right occasionally.  

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I admit I enjoy that so far arguably Howell >> Pickett, Ridder.   The reason why I liked Howell better than both in that draft -- arm talent over Pickett.   I liked Ridder's intangibles but his accuracy was really sketchy.

Wasn't Malik Willis also in that draft?  That idiot The Mighty Thor Nystrom went on and on about how he was the best QB in the draft, and said "I haven't been so sure the NFL messed up since they passed on Lamar Jackson?" (Forgetting Lamar was actually drafted in the first round, granted, the last pick in the first round, but the first round.)  

 

I think the NFL was pretty right about that entire draft of QBs, as a whole.  None of them were ready to play, and none of them seem to (as of yet) have top-5 QB ceilings.  

 

We'll see.  I would LOVE for Howell to end up having a top-5 QB ceiling, but he hasn't earned that yet.  Clearly none of the rest of them have either. 

 

Thor's man-crush, Willis, can't even get on the field.

 

2 hours ago, method man said:

I disagree on Sheehan. Yes the “wait and see” thing was his official take but, all offseason, he went about listing reasons why Howell wouldn’t workout. I don’t think I ever heard reasons for why it would.
 

The guy who took the perfect approach was Keim. Wait and see was his official take too but we got/have gotten a balanced approach from him

He's an insufferable, passive-aggressive ass hat who just likes to flaunt being right.  He's stuck on the "b" radio station, behind the idiotic Sports Junkies on the flagship station, is bitter about it, and has just become a bitter, useless, petty a hole.  

 

Credit though, when Cooley's on, he typically reverts to form and is really, really good with Cooley.  It's like Chris can pull him out of the doldrums.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I hear you.

 

But I think it was Dan Synder who is now of course gone, he was the stupid and more evil version of Kang that provided the overhang of the football gods working against us. 

 

I hadn't thought of that part in bold...

 

[CobraCommander]

7 minutes ago, philibusters said:

I don't fear Heinicke, but I fear that Falcons run game quite a bit.  And while I don't fear Heinicke, with a strong run game behind him, I definitely think he can beat us.

All we gotta do is put McLaurin in coverage and Heinicke will throw it to him.

 

Checkmate. 

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Redwards said:

For me, it's not how good a QB looks in his first year of playing.  

 

The REAL test is and always will be the SECOND YEAR.

 

Why?

 

Because that's the year that opposing defensive coordinators will be taking away what that QB does best.  They'll be working all offseason on taking away your strengths.  Now...what do you do?  Can you respond?  That's the real proof of whether you have your answer at QB.

 

RGIII looked incredible his first year.  Couldn't respond to what DCs took away from him.  He's just one of a million examples of this.  

 

Now, I'm not down on Sam in any way and I'm certainly not implying that Sam won't be able to respond next year (should he still be our starter).  I want to make that crystal clear.  But I also don't hop on a rookie (or rookie-esq, in Sam's case) QB's bandwagon until midway through their second season of playing with strong results.   

 

I'll enjoy what I'm seeing so far but I'm certainly not anointing the guy the franchise stud.  The NFL is just now finding out about this kid and what he does well.  The counters and adjustments in large will come next year.  

 

 

Not saying you are completely wrong but RGIII is a bad example. He was injured, tried to come back too soon, and once he lost his speed he was not a good enough QB as a thrower. The Ds didn;t take his speed away, Mike S and RGIII himself did. 

 

I do agree it takes more than a single year. But you can see traits that he can be a starter in this league. He is very methodical, has a laser arm, and works his ass off. And nothing seems to rattle him. He and EB will form a good bond and can make some hay. Agree it's too early to say franshise stud - whatever that means, you can see enough he has all the tools. And all this with an oline that resepmbles swiss cheese more than a line. 

 

I for one am very excited to see him grow. I personally think he is our guy. But also get the hesitation. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

29 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Have you guys learned nothing about the football gods?...Just imagine this place if Hallock starts against us and the Falcons win. Jeebus. I probably will avoid this thread until 2025, everyone on it--both pro-and-anti Hallock--will be so damn obnoxious lol...

I am deathly afraid of the football Gods, their rath, and their whims.  I worship at the alter of the football gods.  

 

In this case, however, I believe the football Gods WANT Hallock to start so this long, suffering fan base can see Allen and Payne pound him into the turf.  I think they're on our side.  Our demons have been Exorcised.  The football God's are on our side now.  

 

So, to Hallock: