The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[method man]

In addition to letting Wentz go, you can clear up another $18M in cap by trading Fuller and letting Roullier and Thomas go. This is an ultra loaded corner, center and TE draft 

[Riggo#44]

16 hours ago, KDawg said:

Have you, though? 

The guy in the mirror thinks so.

[HigSkin]

John Keim on The Junkies just said something I didn't know.  Not that he was going to start at Dallas but Wentz is done now because if he gets injured, next years contract becomes guaranteed.

 

Keim also said he could see a split at Dallas where both Heinicke and Howell play.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig

In the opposing locker room, the Browns seemed unsurprised by Wentz’s struggles. Several defenders, including end Jadeveon Clowney and linebacker Reggie Ragland, said they preached all week that stopping the run on first and second down would force Wentz to throw on third and long, a situation in which he struggles.

 

“Once we get him rattled in the pocket, it’s over,” Clowney said. “Coming in, we said, ‘If we can get him rattled, we can get some turnovers out of him.’ We knew that.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/01/01/carson-wentz-commanders-uncertain-future/

[goskins10]

12 hours ago, TMK9973 said:

When wentz was healthy Rivera said that whoever he picked as his QB would have his full commitment.

But after 2 turnovers (one def not his fault) against the #1 defense in the league, despite having one of his best games, he got pulled.

 

Meanwhile 3 turnovers, a terrible performance against the worst defense in the league and Wentz stayed in the game.

 

TH should be pissed at Rivera.

 

That is such a myopic look at what happened. TH body of work was basically ****. Playing like **** for 3 Qs+ then pulling out a nice drive at the end to win can be fun but wears on a team, especailly when it's stops being enough. The team around him played a lot better and dragged him to most of those wins. This is why both last year and this year the team won a few games but then got weary at the end. 

 

Ron had to make a change. I would have put Howell in not Wentz. But I get why he went that way. The team was playing better until a few weeks ago so maybe Wentz could reignote that. I might actually agree that at the half I might have put TH back in but it is what it is. The team in general played like ****. I like Ron but that is on him and the coaches as much as Wentz. It's like they thought the Browns were just going to give them the win. 

 

But TH has zero reason to be pissed at Ron R or the team. If he is its a childish reaction and is reallly beneath who he at least seems to be as a person. I believe he has more class than that and understands that this team gave him an opportunity no other team would have given him and is grateful not pissed. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by goskins10

[88Comrade2000]

If it wasn’t for Ron, Taylor would be on sister’s couch.

 

TH got the opportunity to play. He can say he beat Brady and Rodgers.

[Skinsinparadise]

After watching Wentz early this season I was out on him fast.  When we acquired him, I thought they were fleeced on the deal but got the idea of why to do it-- boom-bust player to roll the dice on. Once the bigger names at the time were out, the options weren't hot.  

 

While I thought there was a chance Wentz would play bad, I didn't envision this level bad.  He has looked every much the punchline that PFF, Football Outsiders and much of the national media said he would be.    Irsay would have had the last laugh if it were not for his own screw ups.

 

Wentz looks done to me.  As far as taking shots at Rivera, this is my top shot.  I get the roll of the dice chance.  But he was awful -- and I'd let that go if they didn't pay what they did for him.  Baker Mayfeild flamed out too in Carolina but they weren't fleeced in the deal.  I get that there is a premium that this FO needs to play to get a player but even by those standards, the picks, and salary look ridiculous.  I like more of their personnel moves than I don't.  And I agree with that Sheehan said this morning, its a good roster with QB being the sore spot.  I'd add clearly O line, too.

 

Heinicke is much mentally tougher IMO and a gamer versus Wentz.  Wentz plays tight.    But neither dude puts up points.  Both guys require killer running games and the defense needs to play lights out.   Teams stack the box against both to stop the run and dare them to beat them in the air, and they both aren't good doing so.

 

Wentz this season had the two best games as to putting up points.  Wentz looked good when SF blitzed the heck out of him the previous week.  I get the gamble.   I'd add Heinicke as Rivera said was 0-2-1 in recent games.  It's not like Taylor was riding on a high.  Yeah I agree his best game was the first half against SF, still they only put up 7 points.

 

Both QBs aren't the answer.  Heinicke is a backup.  And I'd say Wentz is probably just a backup now, too. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

After watching Wentz early this season I was out on him fast.  When we acquired him, I thought they were fleeced on the deal but got the idea of why to do it-- boom-bust player to roll the dice on. Once the bigger names at the time were out, the options weren't hot.  

 

While I thought there was a chance Wentz would play bad, I didn't envision this level bad.  He has looked every much the punchline that PFF, Football Outsiders and much of the national media said he would be.    Irsay would have had the last laugh if it were not for his own screw ups.

 

Wentz looks done to me.  As far as taking shots at Rivera, this is my top shot.  I get the roll of the dice chance.  But he was awful -- and I'd let that go if they didn't pay what they did for him.  Baker Mayfeild flamed out too in Carolina but they weren't fleeced in the deal.  I get that there is a premium that this FO needs to play to get a player but even by those standards, the picks, and salary look ridiculous.

 

Heinicke is much mentally tougher IMO and a gamer when Wentz clearly is not.  Wentz plays tight.    But neither dude puts up points.  Both guys require killer running games and the defense needs to play lights out.   Wentz this season had the two best games as to putting up points.  Wentz look good when SF bitzed the heck out of him the previous week.  I get the gamble.   I'd add Heinicke as Riversa said was 0-2-1 in recent games.  It's not like Taylor was riding on a high.  Yeah I agree his best game was the first half against SF, still they only put up 7 points.

 

Both QBs aren't the answer.  Heinicke is a backup.  And I'd say wentz is probably just a backup now, too. 

Wentz probably won’t last more than a year a two as a backup.  He’s just another in a long line of qb busts.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, 88Comrade2000 said:

Wentz probably won’t last more than a year a two as a backup.  He’s just another in a long line of qb busts.

 

Probably.  I am guessing but it feels like he's sort of checked out.  

[drowland]

46 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

John Keim on The Junkies just said something I didn't know.  Not that he was going to start at Dallas but Wentz is done now because if he gets injured, next years contract becomes guaranteed.

 

Keim also said he could see a split at Dallas where both Heinicke and Howell play.

 

 

 

Ugh...Ron trying to pull a Doug Pederson?  Just name Howell the starter and give him the first team reps and see how he does.  

Edited January 3, 2023 by drowland

[skinsfan66]

12 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Add 5 fumbles and 71 total points in those four games to your stat line. The offense was horrid under his leadership. I dont really know what else to say. 

Minus one fumble that cost 1 Giants game and most possibly the playoffs and another in the other Gants game both at the goal line from the blind side, also untouched by any OL strictly on the play call and OL and not on Taylor.  

12 hours ago, Bigmuss1 said:

All of these comments about how bad TH is / was or Wentz is…..makes me wonder how epically bad Howell must be???  Kinda had my hopes up for him.  

But their is no comparrison Wenth is no longer a NFL QB and Taylor is.

[DJHJR86]

12 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

 And there was no way to know Wentz would suck as bad as he did yesterday.

 

A career of doing the same thing as well as the first 6 weeks wasn't enough?  This dude literally did the same exact thing last season.  

[skinsfan66]

12 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

I wasnt as big on Howell as a lot of the rest of the people in the draft thread were last year. But He is far more talented than TH. And definitely more hungry than CW as well. 

Never has played but hope he is.  That would be fantastic but how do you know these things.

[goskins10]

19 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Wentz probably won’t last more than a year a two as a backup.  He’s just another in a long line of qb busts.

 

Unfortunately this is true. He may not even make it as a backup although someone will like the arm enough. But I would think his chances of starting anywhere are done as are many chances to even be the #2. He was set up the best he could to refute the naysayers both at the start of the season and then esepcially last Sunday and he **** the bed spectacularly. He should be released at the soonest point possible. It's too bad really. He seems like a genuinly good guy and has an arm that is a rocket. But it all ends there at this point. 

 

They need to turn thier attention to Howell. Give him the 1st team reps and let him play. Keep TH active and if Howell is getting mauled put TH in for mop up. Maybe even activate Jake Fromm. Release Wentz and make TH inactive. 

[skinsfan66]

12 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

While I agree with this take he earned his benching. And there was no way to know Wentz would suck as bad as he did yesterday. I mean we saw him throw 4 TD's in a game this season. 

There was no way to know? But there was a good Idea of his past play, 

[DJHJR86]

41 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

If it wasn’t for Ron, Taylor would be on sister’s couch.

 

If it wasn't for Taylor, Ron would be on Taylor's sister's couch.

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by DJHJR86

[Chump Bailey]

I'm relieved in a sense. Wentz was the one option I was not interested in pursuing last year and we finally get to see someone I and a lot of others are very interested in seeing play and that would be Mr. Sam Howell. I do think Sam has what it takes to lead this team and be the starter for next season though he will indeed have to earn it. Carr is going to be on our radar and complicate things. I don't dislike Carr but confess I have never be able to figure him out. But, he is not going to come cheap and I do fear the risk of yet another setback for the franchise is uncomfortably high. 

[DJHJR86]

Jake Fromm vs. Sam Howell is the QB debate we need to keep this page going for another 1000 pages.

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

15 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Jake Fromm vs. Sam Howell is the QB debate we need to keep this page going for another 1000 pages.

My money's on Fromm. 

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

That is such a myopic look at what happened. TH body of work was basically ****. Playing like **** for 3 Qs+ then pulling out a nice drive at the end to win can be fun but wears on a team, especailly when it's stops being enough. The team around him played a lot better and dragged him to most of those wins. This is why both last year and this year the team won a few games but then got weary at the end. 

 

Ron had to make a change. I would have put Howell in not Wentz. But I get why he went that way. The team was playing better until a few weeks ago so maybe Wentz could reignote that. I might actually agree that at the half I might have put TH back in but it is what it is. The team in general played like ****. I like Ron but that is on him and the coaches as much as Wentz. It's like they thought the Browns were just going to give them the win. 

 

But TH has zero reason to be pissed at Ron R or the team. If he is its a childish reaction and is reallly beneath who he at least seems to be as a person. I believe he has more class than that and understands that this team gave him an opportunity no other team would have given him and is grateful not pissed. 

Why would Taylor be pissed ? He knew he would be playing behind the same line and coaches for starters, and he has a better mental understanding then Wentz. They played on the same terms, and you saw the results playing against a team with nothing to gain.

[SpacePenguin]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

John Keim on The Junkies just said something I didn't know.  Not that he was going to start at Dallas but Wentz is done now because if he gets injured, next years contract becomes guaranteed.

 

Keim also said he could see a split at Dallas where both Heinicke and Howell play.

 

 

 

It's a shame they didn't play to win vs. the Giants.

[method man]

Regarding Carr, something I was thinking of this morning is what if Payton has pinged him and gotten him to be a part of the crew he is pulling together? 
 

As we have learned, Payton will cost a team a 1st, which would diminish the resources he would have at his disposal to get a QB. Carr would be his path to getting a quality QB without his new team giving up draft capital. 
 

For Payton, the Chargers were his best bet to join a team with a QB but Staley is probably safe after this year. When you look around the league, the slots likely won’t be any with a quality QB in play

 

(It is also entirely possible he is having backroom discussions with Brady)

[CobraCommander]

You can't go back to Heinicke now because if he beats Dallas, then Ron will be burned at the stake. Only option is to start Howell imo. Gotta get some reps in a real game. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by CobraCommander

[Koolblue13]

WTF are we talking about Jake Fromm for? 

 

Makes me think of Abe Fromman, sausage king of chicago.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

You can't go back to Heinicke now because if he beats Dallas, then Ron will be burned at the stake. Only option is to start Howell imo. Gotta get some reps in a real game. 

Not great for Ron, either. If Howell plays well the question becomes “why wasn’t he playing earlier?!”

 

If he stinks the question is: “why did we waste a pick on this guy?!”

 

They have mismanaged this big time.

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

WTF are we talking about Jake Fromm for? 

 

Makes me think of Abe Fromman, sausage king of chicago.

Because people love a controversy.