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The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

Koolblue13

By Koolblue13
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NoCalMike

NoCalMike

Posted
Posted (edited)

Heinicke's arm strength issues aren't just about heaving the ball downfield.  In a clean pocket, with time to really wind up and throw the ball, I am not crazy-worried about the guy's throws.  What I am worried about is D-coordinators having all the tape on him from the second half of 2021 where they figured out that if you coach your defense to flush Heinicke out of the pocket in a certain direction it damn near eliminates every option on the field because once your QB can't actually set & plant their feet/legs/hips/etc etc....then their throws become 100% about how much their arm can do the work, and that means even those shorter passes to your bail out options need to have zip on them because the linebackers and safeties are going to be sitting in those zones and we saw a lot of times where Heinicke was making the correct reads with where to throw the ball but his floating ducks took so long to arrive that they were batted down or the WR was tackled immediately after the catch.    I really think people downplay the lack of NFL arm issue because they only look at it in terms of the ball being thrown 60 yards downfield.

 

If I am Scott Turner I am going to be scheming to get ahead of that strategy by the opposing coaches with putting Heinicke in motion from the get go.  Roll the pocket, bootleg, RPO, all that stuff that buys him time organically instead of him having to avoid the rush and make these wobbling knuckeball throws.

 

 

Edited by NoCalMike
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Professor_Nutter_Butter

Professor_Nutter_Butter

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

The last ten games of Heinicke starting last season, he had 11 touchdowns and 11 total turnovers.  The team managed to go 5-5 in spite of his poor play.  I don't see this team getting even remotely close to .500 for these last games.  

Not with that attitude.

Edited by Professor_Nutter_Butter
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Califan007 The Constipated

Califan007 The Constipated

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I never said I was paraphrasing anyone. I said the way you guys were talking about Heinicke made it sound like he was some master escape artist scrambler who could make poor OLs irrelevant. The best example of a guy I could think of who actually fits that mold is Russell Wilson (at least in his prime).

 

But sure, feel free to focus on the semantics of whether I was paraphrasing you or claiming that you ever said the name Russell Wilson, as opposed to the content of what I posted, which is that Heinicke isn't some amazing of a scrambler and he was completely overwhelmed last season when defenses learned how to stop him.

 

Um, I never said you were paraphrasing lol...I said I got admonished for doing so. The point I was getting across--which I guess I also have to explain--was, if you're gonna describe (or in my case, paraphrase) what someone is saying, you should quote it as well, and for the reasons I was told by mods.

 

Because what you claim I'm doing rings less true when it's coupled with what I actually said:

 

Me: "They've more than seen his escapability in broken-down pockets...and behind this line it's gonna be needed lol..."

You: "But you're talking about Heinicke as if he's some master escape artist scrambler who makes poor OLs irrelevant"

 

If your only argument against what I said is to exaggerate what I was saying and then argue against that exaggeration--coupled with the tired and lazy "semantics" retort--you're not making much of a case for your stance.

 

 

 

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mistertim

mistertim

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Posted
1 minute ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Um, I never said you were paraphrasing lol...I said I got admonished for doing so. The point I was getting across--which I guess I also have to explain--was, if you're gonna describe (or in my case, paraphrase) what someone is saying, you should quote it as well, and for the reasons I was told by mods.

 

Because what you claim I'm doing rings less true when it's coupled with what I actually said:

 

Me: "They've more than seen his escapability in broken-down pockets...and behind this line it's gonna be needed lol..."

You: "But you're talking about Heinicke as if he's some master escape artist scrambler who makes poor OLs irrelevant"

 

If your only argument against what I said is to exaggerate what I was saying and then argue against that exaggeration--coupled with the tired and lazy "semantics" retort--you're not making much of a case for your stance.

 

 

My "stance" is supported by Heinicke's play in the latter half of last season; he made my case for me. My "stance" is that his scrambling and escapability is overrated and that it didn't do much for him after teams keyed in on how to stop him last year, so we should stop talking about him as if he has some sort of secret weapon vs pass rush when last year proved that it wasn't the case.

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DJHJR86

DJHJR86

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Posted

I think the reality for Heinicke starting is at best, you are going to have peaks and valleys with him.  He'll have a terrible sub 30 QBR game and then have a solid, game managing like one the next week.  At worst, he's going to look even worse than Wentz has in the last few weeks.  Either way, I still think we're going to see Howell at some point.

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HigSkin

HigSkin

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

I think the reality for Heinicke starting is at best, you are going to have peaks and valleys with him.  He'll have a terrible sub 30 QBR game and then have a solid, game managing like one the next week.  At worst, he's going to look even worse than Wentz has in the last few weeks.  Either way, I still think we're going to see Howell at some point.

 

It will be interesting to hear about Howell at practice now that he has an opportunity to take backup reps and not just scout team stuff.

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DJHJR86

DJHJR86

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, HigSkin said:

It will be interesting to hear about Howell at practice now that he has an opportunity to take backup reps and not just scout team stuff.

 

Howell is intriguing to me because a lot of people had him going in the 1st round before his last season in college.  I just want him to play at some point this season because I think Rivera & company are gone after this year and whoever the new head coach is going to be should see what could potentially be there with Howell.  

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Califan007 The Constipated

Califan007 The Constipated

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

My "stance" is supported by Heinicke's play in the latter half of last season; he made my case for me. My "stance" is that his scrambling and escapability is overrated and that it didn't do much for him after teams keyed in on how to stop him last year, so we should stop talking about him as if he has some sort of secret weapon vs pass rush when last year proved that it wasn't the case.

 

Not your stance on Heinicke lol (I agree with much of it)...I meant your stance on me and what I was--in your eyes--trying to say.

 

 

12 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

It will be interesting to hear about Howell at practice now that he has an opportunity to take backup reps and not just scout team stuff.

 

 

I was thinking this, too...on the other thread (I think, anyway) I had said that Howell should be made to earn the #2 spot and thus any playing time instead of just playing him to "see what we have". I thought earlier today that, if Wentz is out for more than a week Howell is automatically given more opportunities in practice to do just that. And that might be what moves him up the depth chart even when Wentz gets back.

Edited by Califan007 The Constipated
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HigSkin

HigSkin

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Lol RG3 apparently said In his weekly sports junkies appearance that he’d entertain a reunion with Washington. Yeah, cause THAT would be a great idea!!!

 

LOL, in context he did say he's really good friends with Howell and has known him for a while and that he'd love to be a mentor to him.  I think he feels he could be a good QB in NFL.

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mistertim

mistertim

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Posted
38 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

LOL, in context he did say he's really good friends with Howell and has known him for a while and that he'd love to be a mentor to him.  I think he feels he could be a good QB in NFL.

 

I'd be ok with that as long as RG3 isn't teaching him how to slide.   :ols:

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method man

method man

Posted
Posted

I'm not worried about playing Howell due to the OL as he played with a bad OL at UNC last year and his running back build should help him out. What I am worried about is that Turner runs an offense that he doesn't adjust much that takes proven high IQ veteran guys a while to learn. I worry that Sam may be discombobulated in this offense and he'll look worse than he actually is due to it. If we had a legit OC, that person would run more a college style offense with Sam in there

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dyst

dyst

Posted
Posted (edited)

This team has had a remarkably odd relationship with its QBs, which obviously became even worse under Snyder.

 

Even Gibbs first go-round he never had a legitimate long-term solution at QB. Joe broke his leg, while Doug and Mark were one-hit wonders.

 

Then you have Heath as a bust, RG3 knee issues, Alex with a broken ankle, Fitzpatrick breaks his back, Haskins passes away, now Wentz with his finger. 
 

So many random things happening to one franchise at one position is odd.

Edited by dyst
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Professor_Nutter_Butter

Professor_Nutter_Butter

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Posted
19 minutes ago, dyst said:

This team has had a remarkably odd relationship with its QBs, which obviously became even worse under Snyder.

 

Even Gibbs first go-round he never had a legitimate long-term solution at QB. Joe broke his leg, while Doug and Mark were one-hit wonders.

 

Then you have Heath as a bust, RG3 knee issues, Alex with a broken ankle, Fitzpatrick breaks his back, Haskins passes away, now Wentz with his finger. 
 

So many random things happening to one franchise at one position is odd.

To be fair, Haskins passing away was post-Washington. 

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