The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[ExoDus84]

Just now, SoCalSkins said:

He can’t be that religious. If South Park has taught us anything is that gingers have no souls.

 

[zCommander]

10 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Just need a backup better than Heinicke. If Wentz flops; Ron won’t be the one finding another QB

 

I am gonna say you are wrong on both of these points. Ron is so high up the ladder like Joe Gibbs was (Gibbs left on his own due to illness in his family) that Ron has a longer leash than some of you think. TH started 16 games last year. He is not the worst backup QB like some teams have. I don't see why you would want to get rid of that. I heard it on the radio today that at least with TH you know he is going to come in and try to win you a game like he did with Tampa. I trust in Ron so I will let him decide what he wants to do with TH. 

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

16 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

He was just dumped after 1 year by his high school sweetheart Frank Reich. He has to know his attitude played into that. If he's smart, he'll be a team player as much as possible, otherwise his career is going to careen into a ditch real quick.

 

IF.

[zCommander]

13 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

He can’t be that religious.

 

He met his wife when she was 20 years old and married her a year later. Had to be a religious thing there to move that fast to a marriage. No sex before marriage perhaps. 

[SoCalSkins]

4 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

He met his wife when she was 20 years old and married her a year later. Had to be a religious thing there to move that fast to a marriage. No sex before marriage perhaps. 

I was being facetious. I just wanted to use the gingers have no souls joke from South Park.  😂 

 

Also, I thought he’s married to the actress from suits? Megan something.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by SoCalSkins

[MartinC]

26 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

He’s supposedly deeply religious. Maybe he will come the conclusion, football isn’t his calling and something else is.

Unless ‘something else’ pays him $28M a year I’m going to guess he will decide playing football is part of Gods plan for him.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

The things Keon says don’t seem to add up to me. One rumor was that we would spend a 2nd-4th round pick on a QB if we made a move for a solid vet. The other rumor being that we’d try to get an athletic QB for our athletic vet to mentor? That’s not happening outside the 1st. I really think Ridder is going in the first now. Corral, Willis, Pickett, all in the 1st. Howell maybe? I just don’t see it. 

 

Keim isn't offering his opinion on what HE thinks they should do.  He is simply relaying what he hears THEY intend to do.  i am not debating the point personally.  And I can't say Keim is just full of crap on this and is making it up because its not his style and he's the dude who nailed their interest in Wentz in the first place.  He didn't say for certain but he knows they are seriously considering drafting a QB still especially after the first. 

 

My guess is it depends on context.  They will have Wentz in the building for a month plus before the draft, maybe that is telling to them on some count?  I doubt also that they would just take a QB no matter what in the 2nd, it would likely depend on who is there at that pick among other things.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

7 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

I was being facetious. I just wanted to use the gingers have no souls joke from South Park.  😂 

 

Also, I thought he’s married to the actress from suits? Megan something.

 

 

 

Oh...lol

 

Madison Oberg. They met in 2017 during a trip to Haiti as part of Mission of Hope. Carson attended the mission to represent his charity, The Carson Wentz A01 Foundation, which was one of the donors of Mission of Hope. Mission of Hope was launching a sports initiative that was seeking to build a sports complex and education centre. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by zCommander

[Riggo-toni]

On 2/15/2022 at 8:20 PM, Riggo-toni said:

Like it or not, we are getting Wentz. We always trade for ex-Philthy redhead QBs.

Told you!

[Voice_of_Reason]

31 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Carson’s relationship went south with Philly when they drafted Hurts. I just don’t see it. We don’t have a 3rd  now and if we do trade back smartest move is to trade back for a first next year and have draft capital for 2023 than picking from the scraps of this crap QB class this year. I fully expect us to go all in on impacting 2022. Ron has said this is the year he expects a huge step forward. 

Yeah but Hurts was drafted basically to replace Wentz who was the entrenched starter.  
 

That won’t be the case here.  But Wentz knows he’s on a 1 year tryout deal now.  And I’m sure Ron can convince him they need to at least draft a backup to replace TH

41 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I would have bet you that burrito but knowing you it will be just a bean burrito. 🤮

Any burrito you want.  The king of burritos. Any burrito from any restaurant you want.   The only stipulation is I am not flying your ass to Mexico to get the burrito.  If you can find a $50 burrito I’d buy it for you.  
 

Take the bet.  I want a burrito to go along with my steak dinner I bet for Jay never winning 10 games as a head coach.  I think that bet matures in 2029….

[SoCalSkins]

16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah but Hurts was drafted basically to replace Wentz who was the entrenched starter.  
 

That won’t be the case here.  But Wentz knows he’s on a 1 year tryout deal now.  And I’m sure Ron can convince him they need to at least draft a backup to replace TH

Any burrito you want.  The king of burritos. Any burrito from any restaurant you want.   The only stipulation is I am not flying your ass to Mexico to get the burrito.  If you can find a $50 burrito I’d buy it for you.  
 

Take the bet.  I want a burrito to go along with my steak dinner I bet for Jay never winning 10 games as a head coach.  I think that bet matures in 2029….

You don’t draft backups in the first 2 rounds. 

[kingdaddy]

39 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I am gonna say you are wrong on both of these points. Ron is so high up the ladder like Joe Gibbs was (Gibbs left on his own due to illness in his family) that Ron has a longer leash than some of you think. TH started 16 games last year. He is not the worst backup QB like some teams have. I don't see why you would want to get rid of that. I heard it on the radio today that at least with TH you know he is going to come in and try to win you a game like he did with Tampa. I trust in Ron so I will let him decide what he wants to do with TH. 

TH is also the best bargain QB in the league!!! 

4 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

You don’t draft backups in the first 2 rounds. 

Wentz doesn't like competition...it's proven. He couldn't handle Foles or Hurts in Philly knocking on his door. RR is gonna need to give him the keys to the car and hope it works rather than drafting someone in the first 2 rounds if he wants CW to be comfortable.....This is probably a good year to do it given the state of the QB's in the draft. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

I'm highly skeptical, as for trading up, they didn't make a serious effort because they didn't move up. Didn't matter how much it cost, youre getting guys that many people thought should have gone #2 overall or #3 overall (and in time, at least Jones, and I definitely believe Fields, will be looked at as steals, clearly Mac already is). There was no price that was too high to pay for two guys that should have gone top 2-3 overall and were available in the double digits. I dont see how its even possible to conceive that the direction they went was wiser than actually paying the iron price, it was obvious at least to me at the time, and it's definitely obvious now, that 1 of the 2 is already a confirmed franchise QB (though I think Jones Ceiling is Matt Ryan to Matt Ryan-lite rather than HOF talent).. 

 

 

 

OK.  Will see.  The only thing I heard was that the other team wanted a major player on the roster and major draft capital.  So lets say for argument sake we will regret not trading Terry McLaurin and two #1 picks and a 2nd rounder for Justin Fields.  Your point seems to be slam dunk we all know its a mistake that they didn't do it --  because of the perception of who Fields is as a player. 

 

Coming from one of the people who was higher on Fields than most -- I think for the moment if anything they look smart for not going overboard to get him but I do agree that over time if Fields ends up becoming the next Russell Wilson they will look foolish.    But I don't feel like arguing this anymore.  We've had this same argument multiple times.  So lets agree to disagree.  And if you want the last word on this, you got it.  

 

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

 

But honestly I think how this plays out seems kind of obvious, just on the odds. I'd bet it plays out like a cross between Alex Smith, Boonell, and Brad Johnson but w/2000, rather than 1999 being the performance. I suspect he's just good enough to make us stick with him and we get nowhere, we play just over and just under .500 ball for the length of his contract, and then move on a few years from now with nothing to show for it beyond more above and below .500 seasons and still no answer at QB on the roster, and that hilarious angle: no drafted and developed HOF caliber QB's since The Great Depression streak still very much intact (probably the craziest, most hidden, and yes cherry picked, and yet still accurate streak in history of any successful team. I find it astonishing that the Redskins managed to make 5 super bowls, win 3, and produce tons of playoff seasons since Sammy Baugh retired, and yet never drafted, developed and produced a HOF caliber QB career once in that run of 75 or so years). 

 

 

 

I think you are frustrated with about the team for decades as to the QB spot and you are saddling Rivera with it and assume he's the same old same old.

 

You have what it seems like a stereotype of Rivera being an old school coach who just doesn't get that the modern NFL is predicated on getting ellte QBs and riding that.  I get it but the facts don't really play well to that stereotype 

 

IMO if you look at actions/statements, Rivera is the first HC we've had that sings your song almost entirely.  Yet I find it ironic you are so frustrated by him.  If you want to criticize him for not being as bold in his statements and interest in a QB last year as this year, that I can see maybe.  But I don't care if it took him a bit to hit an epiphany.  He's certainly in your school about QBs now. 

 

I hit you back on this point not to give you a hard time but to assure to chill because this dude is talking your language.  Not to your level which IMO is extreme -- people have accused me for years for being a bit extreme on the QB spot but you take it up a notch from me.  But Rivera is as close as we've had to your level of extreme about QBs from my observation.  Definitely a notch above on this topic any HC we've had.

 

Here are the three things that I don't feel he's at your level extreme but i am not sure any coach is:

 

A.  I don't think he agrees that there is no price that's too big for a rookie QB in the draft

B.  I don't think he will purposely tank-lose games on purpose

C.  I don't get the sense that he is just hung up on a rookie or young QB or bust, feels like he's fine paying big for a killer QB veteran

 

But outside of that, he's talking your language.  I can't recall ever having a coach basically pimping to the league saying he wants a QB like Rivera has been doing.   He's the first coach we've had who offered 3 first rounders and change for a QB since 2012/RG3.  He's said multiple times its a Qb league.  He's said if you have a great QB you don't have to be as perfect as far as the rest of the team.  On and on and on. 

 

But here's the kicker that should make you happy?  Rivera hasn't said this but Keim who seems to have really good sources with the team has said multiple times is the goal is to get a great QB and they are willing to do multiple drafts in a row to do it.  In all my time following the team, I've never heard about a coach here willing to draft a QB multiple years in row.

 

Some of his critics like to say he'd rather eke into the playoffs than not.  That sounds to be true but it sounds to be true for EVERY coach.  But I've heard multiple times Ron has been there and done that as for making the playoffs.  His ultimate goal isn't the playoffs here.  He wants a SB before he retires.  And yes he indeed wants a great QB.  I get that impression from his own interviews and what others who cover the team have said they heard.

 

Wentz for his faults has arguably the highest upside of the QBs left on the market.  But from what I understand if he doesn't look to be the guy, they will keep fishing.  The impression I get is Ron's goal isn't to say he took over the Commanders and they had a couple of 9-8 seasons.  He wants a SB. 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

Wentz loves TE's.....we need to get someone to go with LT to put pressure on defenses. If we give him LT and a guy like Evan Engram he will be that much better...I like Bates but I don't think he's the route runner or has the hands that Engram does. Hell I'd even take Ertz.....would love to see this duo against Philly's weak ass defense.

[Monte51Coleman]

Bates will break out this coming season.

[Voice_of_Reason]

22 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

TH is also the best bargain QB in the league!!! 

Not even close.  
 

Herbert and Burrow are the best bargains in the league.  

[kingdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Not even close.  
 

Herbert and Burrow are the best bargains in the league.  

they don't count....rookie contracts.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

they don't count....rookie contracts.

They’re In the league.  I’m not sure how they don’t count.  But whatever.  

[zCommander]

33 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Not even close.  
 

Herbert and Burrow are the best bargains in the league.  

 

Herbert or Burrow will come to the Commanders in 2023 to be backup to Wentz? 

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think they can justify a late second or third (trade back) QB just saying they are at the least looking to replace TH either this year or next.  Chances are that guy is the backup on a rookie deal.  If they develop, awesome.  If Wentz flames out, you might have guy who can play in 2023.

 

They won’t do it at 11 but they need another talented player in the building.  
 

Think 2012 with Griffin and Cousins.  They didn’t want Rex as even a backup even though he started in 2011.  I see that exactly the same way with TH.  Except they didn’t even want TH to play last year, he did because he was forced to. 

I don't think teams draft players looking to replace their backup QB.....Your hatred for TH is noted. And your 2012 comparison is totally ridiculous. Do your research. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I doubt the first round. Breer is pretty connected too so Keim isn’t on an island here as far as his sources 

 

 

[kingdaddy]

36 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

They’re In the league.  I’m not sure how they don’t count.  But whatever.  

If you have a QB that beats Tom Brady, Derek Carr, Russ Wilson, Matt Ryan and any other team in the league making only 1.5 mil per there's no bigger bargain....You hate TH and just want to bash everything TH. Compare the salaries of the QB's TH beat and there's no bigger bargain in the league....Keep reading my posts and think before you respond with TH hate and maybe you'll learn something. And I'm not twisting facts like you claim I do....you're the spin doctor on this site because you hate TH.

[dunfer]

5 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I don't think teams draft players looking to replace their backup QB.....Your hatred for TH is noted. And your 2012 comparison is totally ridiculous. Do your research. 

depends on how many qbs you carry and if the backup is grooming to be a starter.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

It feels like December all over again up in here. 😂

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I don't think teams draft players looking to replace their backup QB.....Your hatred for TH is noted. And your 2012 comparison is totally ridiculous. Do your research. 

I don’t hate TH. But I know what he is. I seriously don’t think you do.  

 

How is my 2012 comparison not absolutely the same?  Rex was the opening day starter and played most of the 2011 season.  TH wasn’t the opening day starter,  it played most of the 2021 season.  

 

They traded up to get Griffin. We traded to get Wentz.

 

They picked Cousins in the 4th.  That’s after the team used a first (and 2 additional firsts and a second) to get Griffin.  Why? Because they needed a third QB and they wanted a better option than Grossman.  And the Shanahans really likes Grossman.  So rhey used a second pick in the same draft on a QB who was definitively going to be a backup.  

Rex went to 3rd string then off the team. Cousins was the backup in 2012 - 2014 until he got the starting job in 2015. He played some when Griffin was hurt. 
 

The differnce this time is they don’t have the definitive starter long term on the team. Wentz is basically on a one year prove-it deal.  If he souls himself, he can be released.  And that means maybe they pick a second QB higher.  Maybe not.  We’ll see.
 

They have to have 3 QBs on the roster.  Ron said he wants a veteran, another veteran and the chance at a rookie.  That’s the quote he gave Standig.  
 

They actually need 2 more QBs on the team because you need 4 for camp.

 

Most likely 1 is a draft pick, I think end of second round or trade back to third round, and one is an UDFA who either gets cut after camp or ends up on the practice squad.

 

And quite frankly, if they draft a guy in the second or third round it’s not unfathomable that player beats out TH for the backup job.

 

Again, a 4th round rookie beat out Rex Grossman in 2012 and then started a game during a playoff run.  And Rex was the starter going into 2011.  Rex knew the system, he came with Kyle from Houston.  Not even a backup who “got a field promotion” to quote Mayhew.