The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Welcome to the internet. If you think sports is bad,............

I don’t pay attention to anything other than sports. And quite frankly I want this forum to be better than the “internet” in general.

 

Having said that, I’m not naive. I know my pleas and hopes are falling upon ears that have biases and add the letter “s” to random names, like Mayes.

 

But… I’m going to continue to stick my head in the sand.

[fearlessNelms]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I am really struggling why propping up the guy you want means taking shots at the other guys… 

 

One poster made a great post and then took a shot at McCarthy because of bad passes in the ‘22 season… but neglects to mention that Daniels wasn’t very good in ‘22 or really any season prior to this year.

 

There is the idea that Maye regressed, but it’s ignored he had no talent.

 

There is the convo that Daniels only had one good season, but that one good season was absolutely absurd. 
 

People hold it against JJ that Michigan was a running team but that team had the talent to be a running team more than a passing team, and as fans we always want our coaches to do what the personnel fits, don’t we? Why is that a major strike against McCarthy?

 

In my opinion Michigan had the best back in the class, why wouldn’t you use him and Edwards with an OL built to run the ball? 
 

Stop looking at stats. 
 

Watch plays. Watch the way these guys move. Watch their playmaking. Watch their arm under duress and with a clean pocket. Just watch. 
 

Hold them all to an equal standard. Instead of completion percentage, look at % of completable passes. Why? Because receivers can screw that stat up. 
 

Instead of interceptions, look at % of interceptable passes. Why? Because defenders drop them, too.

 

If you evaluate this stuff honestly, you’ll find that they all have strengths and all have weaknesses in their on field games. All of them.

 

If you evaluate physical traits the board changes. Maye sky rockets in value. Penix would also, if injuries and age weren’t such a concern (but they are, so he won’t). McCarthy and Daniels could both stand to gain some weight and Caleb is small for a high end QB prospect.

 

I keep saying this, and I mean it… if we get Maye, Daniels or McCarthy I’ll be happy. Why? I think all four, if put in a good situation, can develop and be a great quarterback.

 

(I also think all four, if put in a bad situation can totally **** the bed)

 

If pass playmaking is your thing it’s Caleb and it’s not close.

 

If speed is your thing it’s Daniels, and it’s not close.

 

If size/athletic combo is your thing, it’s Maye.

 

If unmolded clay who did a little of everything above well and also didn’t do a little of everything above well is your thing, it’s McCarthy.

 

im truly good with whoever.

This is good @#$% right here.- all excellent, valid points. But the most valid point is situation. I think the way our coaching staff and roster is built is going to be very rookie QB friendly, both on and off the field, to whichever QB we draft. Our coaching staff is top notch and we have a bunch of high character veterans- a good recipe to cook up an ideal situation for rookie QB to come into. 

 

I think a perfect example of your "going to to the right or wrong situation" is CJ Stroud and Bryce Young last year. Stroud goes to a great situation in Houston and has a great rookie season. Young goes to a bad situation in Carolina and looks headed to be a bust. Reverse situations and you're looking at different rookie seasons for both- at least in my opinion. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Been listening to a zilllion podcasts during a long drive yesterday including catching up with everything Keim. My impressions after doing it and piling on to what I already listened to.

 

A. Its close as to what personnel and coaches around the league think between Maye and Daniels with Daniels having a small edge 

 

B. They get Maye has more arm talent and Daniels brings dual threat on steroids so the drill is what do you value more?

 

C. Keim seems to be leaning that this team is leaning Daniels and seems to think its between Daniels and Maye without McCarthy seriously in the running. But the regime is undecided 

 

D, The McCarthy buzz is all over the place but most dont expect him to exceed Maye or Daniels 

 

E. This team almost for certain is sticking at #2

Edited March 29 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

With Maye keep hearing different versions of his intangibles being sky high

 

 

 

 

 

[HigSkin]

Logan Paulsen early on The Junkies made a good point.  He's going to be listening to what they (Peters/Quinn) say over the next few weeks about the QB position.

 

1.  Are they talking like they want a guy to start right away?  That's Daniels or McCarthy according to Logan, more ready.

 

2.  Or are they talking about a guy who needs to sit a few weeks before starting?  That would be Maye.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Logan Paulsen early on The Junkies made a good point.  He's going to be listening to what they (Peters/Quinn) say over the next few weeks about the QB position.

 

1.  Are they talking like they want a guy to start right away?  That's Daniels or McCarthy according to Logan, more ready.

 

2.  Or are they talking about a guy who needs to sit a few weeks before starting?  That would be Maye.

 

 

 

Right now am guessing the McCarthy stuff is BS in the context of this team.   I'll take it seriously when Keim takes it seriously and maybe it happens but it hasn't yet as far as I can tell.

 

The way I see this argument framed here is some say on this thread its a no brainer to run with Maye or its no brainer to run with Daniels highlighting that people's favorite attributes about said QB are the correct attributes to care about.  But it feels like apples to oranges.  Both QBs are intriguing for different reasons.

 

While I personally am in the Maye camp.  I get why some in the league doesn't see this discussion as a no brainer.  Keim seems to be leaning that they are more likely to go with Daniels because when he asked coaches around the league who they like better Daniels has a distinct edge.  But he also said that's not the Washington coaches who are more close to the vest about this.  And they are still digesting this.  So am gathering maybe in a week or two after they digest it more maybe something leaks.

 

But this team is so tight with keeping things in house we might not know until they actually pick the player.

 

For me right now I prefer Maye, half a peg over Daniels and a full peg over McCarthy,  I like McCarthy more than most, I touted him early during the college season but I'd be slightly dissappointed if they took him at #2 but after listening to much yesterday I am not too worried they take him.  I think this is VERY likely a 2 horse race.

Edited March 29 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

All of this my guy is best and the other guys suck always leaves out Caleb Williams from the slander!

 

What happened to equal opportunity? Take your shot at him too! Chicago will rue the day they didn't take (insert desired QB here) over Caleb and thusly gifted (insert desired QB here) to us. They will! Mwahahahaha!

[HigSkin]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Right now am guessing the McCarthy stuff is BS.   I'll take it seriously when Keim takes it seriously and maybe it happens but it hasn't yet as far as I can tell.

 

The way I see this argument framed here is some say on this thread its a no brainer to run with Maye or its no brainer to run with Daniels highlighting that people's favorite attributes about said QB are the correct attributes to care about.  But it feels like apples to oranges.  Both QBs are intriguing for different reasons.

 

While I personally am in the Maye camp.  I get why some in the league doesn't see this discussion as a no brainer.  Keim seems to be leaning that they are more likely to go with Daniels because when he asked coaches around the league who they like better Daniels has a distinct edge.  But he also said that's not the Washington coaches who are more close to the vest about this.  And they are still digesting this.  So am gathering maybe in a week or two after they digest it more maybe something leaks.

 

But this team is so tight with keeping things in house we might not know until they actually pick the player

 

Yeah, Logan weighted 80% tape, 10% combine, 10% pro-day in the evaluation process.  He also said this group got a late start (not a bad thing) due to staff assembly.  He suggested they probably have a 'lean' by now but not decided.

[DogofWar1]

9 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Logan Paulsen early on The Junkies made a good point.  He's going to be listening to what they (Peters/Quinn) say over the next few weeks about the QB position.

 

1.  Are they talking like they want a guy to start right away?  That's Daniels or McCarthy according to Logan, more ready.

 

2.  Or are they talking about a guy who needs to sit a few weeks before starting?  That would be Maye.

 

Keim mentioned this on I think the Maye pro day podcast that went out last night, alluding to Peters mentioning that with Mariota they don't have to rush a new guy in.  Obviously he said that we shouldn't read too far into it, and he's right, but that statement is out there.

 

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

With Maye keep hearing different versions of his intangibles being sky high

 

I like that.  Always good to help out the people around you.  Especially the offensive line.

 

At UNC the talent was suspect but in the NFL, that attitude will help gel the unit.  And a cohesive unit is gonna play better and want to play better for you.

 

I know the others did various little things too, but in this new age of the NIL, it's a cool idea and a good one.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Yeah, Logan weighted 80% tape, 10% combine, 10% pro-day in the evaluation process.  He also said this group got a late start (not a bad thing) due to staff assembly.  He suggested they probably have a 'lean' by now but not decided.

 

Keim has said now in three different segments he believes their lean is Daniels.  But also lean is the operative word and they haven't decided.

 

He's not as plugged in with this group than the past simply because this FO doesn't leak.  So not totally sure where he's getting the lean from.  In his recent podcast he said its because when he asked coaches he trust (I gather from other teams) Daniels has a distinct edge.  But I'd guess it must be a little more than that but I don't know.

 

Having said that even a lean probably doesn't matter much yet.  The most strong impressions though I get from him is this is more likely a 2 way race not a 3 way race and they are likely sticking at #2

Edited March 29 by Skinsinparadise

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I don’t pay attention to anything other than sports. And quite frankly I want this forum to be better than the “internet” in general.

 

Having said that, I’m not naive. I know my pleas and hopes are falling upon ears that have biases and add the letter “s” to random names, like Mayes.

 

But… I’m going to continue to stick my head in the sand.

Well while we are being serious….I know I have my biases. And I think most of you can guess just by my posts. And I have a bad habit of rooting for the guys I find unfairly criticized by my fellow ESers to the point that it has to come off annoying at some point. 
 

Being aware of your biases is a huge step towards being able to think past them. Not to be too direct - but many here I don’t think even attempt to understand this and of course that just dilutes their points and makes these arguments so circular. Most of us have biases. That’s normal! But it’s expected that you get past that. Most of y’all are honestly too smart and well written not to. And I mean that last part. 
 

I appreciate your posts specifically because you are a good example to follow when I allow my preconceptions cloud my judgement. I mean this **** is all fun and games, literally. But we can always work to being better at it. 

[HigSkin]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Keim has said now in three different segments he believes their lean is Daniels.  But also lean is the operative word and they haven't decided.

 

He's not as plugged in with this group than the past simply because this FO doesn't leak.  So not totally sure where he's getting the lean from.  In his recent podcast he said its because when he asked coaches he trust (I gather from other teams) Daniels has a distinct edge.  But I'd guess it must be a little more than that but I don't know.

 

Having said that even a lean probably doesn't matter much yet.  The most strong impressions though I get from him is this is more likely a 2 way race not a 3 way race and they are likely sticking at #2

 

FWIW, not to give too much credence to what the Junks say but couple weeks ago said scouts were leaning Daniels and Quinn/Peter's were not decided.  That's what they (EB/Lurch) heard.

 

As you said, Peter's is making the decision so no one really knows.

 

We'll see.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

FWIW, not to give too much credence to what the Junks say but couple weeks ago said scouts were leaning Daniels and Quinn/Peter's were not decided.  That's what they (EB/Lurch) heard.

 

As you said, Peter's is making the decision so no one really knows.

 

We'll see.

 

 

 

Yeah I gather Keim is giving Daniels the edge because of the scouts-coaches he talked to they are giving Daniels a clear edge.  I gather Maye next.  And McCarthy after Maye.  That there is a hierarchy shaping.  But that's not per se this team but more of an around the league vibe.  Multiple stories I noticed recently that the Vikings and Pats are hot for Daniels.  The Vikings with some stories also tied to Maye.

[mac8887]

6 hours ago, illone said:

 

"mauraders"?

 

No way dude, if I am by myself I get to slap my own sign up.

 

For now, let's just go with "Camp JJ" until I can think of something better.

 

 

I've got a warm fire with enough smores, gin, and all-beef hotdogs to last a few years out here...

 

So back to your little colt mccoy strawman. By the way Colt is a good comp for Bo Nix, but I digress...

 

Not even sure why you brought that guy into the discussion.

 

I was comparing Maye to JJ.

 

In college. 

 

That's it.

 

JJ is superior to Maye in several metrics that are related to arm talent. Accuracy is important. In college, JJ has been a more accurate passer than Maye, and has a better TD to Int ratio, and blows every other QB in college football AWAY on 3rd and long situations.

 

If you want to contend that 3rd down execution can be removed from the discussion, I'd buy that since maybe that falls under the "talent" column and not "arm talent".

 

So if you are isolating that Maye can throw a deeper ball than JJ, then I'd agree. Perhaps he can throw it faster? Not sure if that is even worth quantifying.  I think JJ threw 61 mph at the combine?

 

But bottom line for me, McCarthy is a better football player than Drake Maye is right now. JJ executes at a higher level and is a more accurate passer than Maye.

I was leaning Maye yesterday, then last night I was thinking to myself, it’s the 4th quarter of a close game, who do I want with the ball in their hands? Maye or McCarthy? I wanted McCarthy. I wanted Jayden. Why you might ask? I just got done watching the Maye pick 6 vs Clemson. It was eerily similar to the pick Sam Howell threw against the pats this year.

[skinsfan66]

7 hours ago, e16bball said:

Yeah, those of us who “don’t follow college football enough” have been fooled into thinking that Michigan had pass-catching talent. That a Day 2 receiver (Wilson), a Day 3 receiver (Johnson), a Day 3 tight end (Barner), a likely Day 2 tight end next year (Loveland), and the best RB duo in the country (both of whom were weapons in the pass game) is a strong group. Most college teams have 6 surefire upper-class draft picks at the skill positions to throw to.

 

You’re 100% right that they leaned on their OL and run game a lot. That was their calling card. Moreso than any elite team since the Jalen Hurts Bama team, probably. They had a special group, and everything you said that I didn’t quote is true — well-coached, cohesive team, good leaders, all that stuff. And that includes McCarthy.

 

But again, there are those of us among the uneducated masses who think maybe one of the main reasons they didn’t totally trust their passing game, even in big situations, is because their QB singlehandedly put 14 points on the board for a grossly inferior TCU team in last year’s CFP Semis and dug them a hole too deep to escape.

Just adding, 19 year old QB took his team to the semi's and get's the shake down.  1 RB day 2, 1 OL day 3 is 1 WR day 2. Good players not great on Off. and D. 

[Going Commando]

22 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Yeah, Logan weighted 80% tape, 10% combine, 10% pro-day in the evaluation process.  He also said this group got a late start (not a bad thing) due to staff assembly.  He suggested they probably have a 'lean' by now but not decided.

 

Adam Peters has been scouting this QB class for years.  He took this job in 15 seconds of consideration, and #2 is pretty much the only reason it was attractive.  He knows who he likes and he just has to build consensus.  Maybe the coaches got a later start, but they are not the primary drivers of this decision.  He put the staff together, they're going to agree with him.

 

If Peters didn't have a firm plan by now, I don't think he would have traded Howell.  It makes sense that the FO is telling everyone they are undecided and still working through the process of evaluation, because they should still work on gathering and considering information up until the end.  But I find it hard to believe (and would even be concerned if) they don't have a clear preference by this point.

[Warhead36]

Its gonna be Maye and its likely been Maye for a while. Everything else is due dilligence and media filling air time. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I will be surprised if it is not Maye. Maye should be the wire to wire #1/#2 pick. The rest is noise.

 

Daniels wasn't even considered a Top 10 option until like 5 weeks ago. McCarthy - same thing.

 

This draft was always about Maye and Williams. I think that will hold true.

[BMagic]

14 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I will be surprised if it is not Maye. Maye should be the wire to wire #1/#2 pick. The rest is noise.

 

Daniels wasn't even considered a Top 10 option until like 5 weeks ago. McCarthy - same thing.

 

This draft was always about Maye and Williams. I think that will hold true.

 

Spielman thinks so as well.

 

 

The prospects still need to visit Ashburn and go through the interviews though.

[Wyvern]

46 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

FWIW, not to give too much credence to what the Junks say but couple weeks ago said scouts were leaning Daniels and Quinn/Peter's were not decided. ...

 

Is this the scouting network of the Snyder/Allen/Rivera tenure? ...Or has Peters had time to overhaul that group? 

 

I recall that former Redskins' Exec. Scott McCloughan (who was well-regarded for scouting management) had tried to overhaul the Redskins' scouting network, but was stopped by Allen in a power-play.  And considering Rivera's drafts, it may have still been needing some "re-calibration."

 

 

Edited March 29 by Wyvern

[HTTRDynasty]

I'm assuming most coaches are leaning Daniels and most scouts / FO people are leaning Maye.

 

One group is motivated by immediate results while the other is motivated by long-term success.  Can't really blame either for their thinking, as they are extrinsically motivated to lean one way or the other.

 

Whatever we decide, I would assume the potential for long-term success is the primary factor driving the decision - which is why I think it's likely Maye.

 

Edited March 29 by HTTRDynasty

[ThatNFLChick]

 

 

Edited March 29 by ThatNFLChick

[Warhead36]

Yeah as soon as someone mentions "he's a winner" in any way I threw their argument in the trash.

[CommanderInTheRye]

Don't know if this has been shown before. Fun video to look at, but not determinative in isolation imho. 

 

Gonna be a tougher decision than many of us think.

 

Rest assured, we're finally in good hands, let's trust 'em to get it right.

 

 

 

Edited March 29 by CommanderInTheRye

[Fred Jones]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah as soon as someone mentions "he's a winner" in any way I threw their argument in the trash.

I don't necessarily disagree because what does "he's a winner" actually mean?  That the guy happened to play on good teams.  The best QB currently in the NFL played on a bad college team.  So, he was not a "winner" entering the NFL.  9 teams passed on him in the first round because of his lack of "winning".

 

My point is not that said QB will not be successful, but "being a winner" doesn't mean you will "win" in the NFL.  The use of the words by the media has gotten tiresome.