The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

We don't need to see Jayden run a 40.  And wether he runs a 40 is more about how he trained for the drill than his weight IMO.  If he really trained for it and got good times during training and his legs feel good, then maybe he runs it.  But all of that would have been a waste of time for him IMO.  He just needs to throw and throw well.  I want to see video of the ball exploding out of his hand.

 

His running is a bigger part of his game than his arm talent, though.

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

I want to see video of the ball exploding out of his hand.

 

 

Then I think you will be disappointed.

 

Daniels doesn't have that kind of "whip" based on what I've seen of him on video.

 

You'll likely see that true ball explosion you're looking for at NC tomorrow and you'll definitely see it at Washington's pro day from Michael Penix Jr.

 

Pure arm strength to a qb, is a bit like a sub 4.4 forty to a running back-- it's a great attribute if you have it, but their are legions of players that don't, that are permanently enshrined in the hall of fame.

[Dexter]

On 3/25/2024 at 11:14 PM, SoCalSkins said:

Maye looks like a cross between Drew Bledsoe and Josh Allen to me. Dude is a baller. 

I'm sorry but that is laughable...

 

Drake Maye looks like a project to me....he's not polished at all.  He throws a wobbly ball, throws off his back foot consistently, is extremely inaccurate unless he's throwing a 5 yard hitch and has no poise in the pocket.  If he were 6'1 he would be a Day 3 QB.  

 

His Virginia film is sooooo bad it's hard to watch....Duke is hard to watch.

 

Joe Milton is the cross between Bledsoe and Allen.

Drake Maye is a cross between Jordan Love and Kenny Pickett

 

Watch Joe Milton vs Bama and Florida and then try to stomach Drake Maye against Virginia, Clemson or Duke.  

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

I don't think this week will be a "starting point". If he's put on a fair amount of weight over the past couple of months, it's quite likely temporary so he can assuage concerns about his frame.

Hopefully we now have qualified people in charge to work that out 

[Chris 44]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

We don't need to see Jayden run a 40.  And wether he runs a 40 is more about how he trained for the drill than his weight IMO.  If he really trained for it and got good times during training and his legs feel good, then maybe he runs it.  But all of that would have been a waste of time for him IMO.  He just needs to throw and throw well.  I want to see video of the ball exploding out of his hand.

I want to see him run the 40, at the finish line grab his hamstring, hobble a few steps and then look at the cameras and the attending hordes, who have their mouths wide open in shock, then with a big smile run off chuckling to himself. We need some humor in this process!

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig who has won some awards for being correct as to mock drafts.

 

 

 

Matt Miller today.  lol, i guess its Daniels day with the mocks.  It's pretty even between Maye and Daniels typically

 

2024 NFL mock draft: Miller predicts seven rounds, 257 picks

ROUND 1

1. Chicago Bears (via CAR)

Caleb Williams, QB, USC

The Bears trading Justin Fields to Pittsburgh cements their selection of a quarterback at No. 1 overall. Williams is not only the best one in this class, but also the best of the past decade. A talented creator under center, he accounted for 120 touchdowns in his three-year college career (93 passing, 27 rushing) to just 14 interceptions. The Bears have built a fantastic supporting cast, allowing Williams the chance to see instant success. He'll be a Week 1 starter and could have a C.J. Stroud-like impact here.

---

2. Washington Commanders

 

Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

Everything is new in Washington -- ownership, general manager and coach. And there will be a new quarterback, too. Daniels' dual-threat ability is an ideal fit for new offensive coordinator Kliff Kingsbury's version of the Air Raid offense. With back-to-back seasons of over 1,000 rushing yards and a nearly perfect QBR of 99.5 on passes over 20 yards, Daniels would thrive with wide receivers Terry McLaurin and Jahan Dotson opening things up down the field. The Commanders will have a tough decision to make between Daniels and North Carolina's Drake Maye, but I see Daniels as the clear-cut QB2. He's also ready to play immediately after starting 55 games in college; Maye might have more upside, but Daniels is ready to excel right now.

---

Projected mock trade: Minnesota moves up for a QB

The Vikings made an early move to acquire pick No. 23 in the draft from the Texans, and it would allow their front office to aggressively come up the board from No. 11 for a top-three quarterback. I have Minnesota sending Nos. 11 and 23, along with a 2025 first-rounder, to New England for this third pick. The Vikings badly need a solution under center. The Patriots' hole there is less dire in the short term since they have a solid bridge option on the roster in Jacoby Brissett. The extra draft capital would allow for better roster building under exec Eliot Wolf and coach Jerod Mayo as the architects of this post-Bill Belichick team.

---

3. Minnesota Vikings (via mock trade with NE)

Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina

Maye is a big-armed and mobile, with the tools to thrive under coach Kevin O'Connell. With a star left tackle in Christian Darrisaw, arguably the league's best receiver in Justin Jefferson and a very good WR2 in second-year player Jordan Addison, the Vikings' offensive supporting cast is perfect for a rookie quarterback. Maye is raw, and in many situations it would be best for him to sit and learn for a year, but the Minnesota structure could get him on the field early. He has thrown for 7,929 yards and 62 TD passes over the past two seasons.

 

play

1:44

The plays that make UNC's Drake Maye a top NFL prospect

Take a look at the top plays from Drake Maye during his time at North Carolina.

---

Projected mock trade: Denver also moves up for a QB

With quarterbacks going 1-2-3 to start the draft, I could see the Broncos getting on the phone and sending a package to Arizona for the No. 4 pick to get QB4. I think it would take something in the realm of pick No. 12, a 2025 first-rounder and a 2026 first-rounder. The deal is molded like the deal the 49ers made in 2021 to move up for Trey Lance, and yes, it's an expensive trade package. But if Broncos coach Sean Payton lands his quarterback, no one will care much about the cost to move up to get him. The Cardinals, meanwhile, would have multiple first-rounders in 2024, 2025 and 2026.

---

4. Denver Broncos (via mock trade with ARI)

J.J. McCarthy, QB, Michigan

McCarthy is a tough, instinctive and accurate quarterback with plus-level mobility and great play from the pocket. I'm not saying he's Drew Brees, but the style of play would fit very well with what Payton ran in New Orleans. McCarthy is relatively inexperienced with just 28 starts in college, but he left Michigan with a 27-1 record. He completed 72.1% of his passes and threw only four picks last season, and his third-down QBR of 86.7 was 11th-best in the nation. McCarthy would be a sure bet to beat out Jarrett Stidham and start Week 1 in Denver.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39806887/2024-nfl-mock-draft-matt-miller-seven-rounds-257-picks-predictions

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, Dexter said:

I'm sorry but that is laughable...

 

Drake Maye looks like a project to me....he's not polished at all.  He throws a wobbly ball, throws off his back foot consistently, is extremely inaccurate unless he's throwing a 5 yard hitch and has no poise in the pocket.  If he were 6'1 he would be a Day 3 QB.  

 

His Virginia film is sooooo bad it's hard to watch....Duke is hard to watch.

 

Joe Milton is the cross between Bledsoe and Allen.

Drake Maye is a cross between Jordan Love and Kenny Pickett

 

Watch Joe Milton vs Bama and Florida and then try to stomach Drake Maye against Virginia, Clemson or Duke.  

 

If he's so inaccurate beyond 5 yards how does he have the most big time throws of any QB coming out over the last several years?

[DogofWar1]

Normally I don't care toooooo much about QB 40 times, but for Jayden it's a bit more important than for everyone else.

 

Keep in mind that a huge part of his game is his straight line speed.  It's his biggest weapon.  If he was Maye level of a scrambler, we'd be talking about him as a mid-round guy, and he doesn't have a heisman to his name.  And it truly is straight line speed.  Sure he's no slouch laterally but he's not Lamar Jackson either.

 

No, rather a huge part of his game stems from the fact that if a lane opens up for him he's got 10 yards before anyone even knows he's scrambling, 20 before anyone can start chasing, and 30 before he's tackled.

 

To that end his 40 plus his 20 and 10 are important to his game.

 

He needs to gain weight most likely.  If he truly was 210 at LSU he coulda easily bulked to 215 at the combine and then run at 200-205 at pro day and not weighed in.  Him not weighing in at the combine suggests he was underweight.  Maybe he was 208 or, as is often speculated, maybe he was struggling to get above 205.

 

Either way, if he was playing at 200 and then suddenly is 215, that is gonna have some impact on his speed.  Maybe it's a small impact but we don't know that.

 

And if you're spending the #2 pick on a guy, with Drake Maye right there, who he needs to be better than to earn that pick, I wanna see how one of his most important weapons (his takeoff speed) is impacted when he is playing at an appropriate NFL weight.

[mac8887]

I’m not to concerned about Jayden running the 40. I would like to see him weigh in at 210 or more, but even if he doesn’t it really doesn’t concern me. If he comes into the league and is an electric playmaker, the refs won’t allow anyone to touch him. The new hip drop rule is just another way to protect these guys. The NFL is on a path to try to keep their superstars healthy and on the field. 

[skinsfan66]

21 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I want to see him run the 40, at the finish line grab his hamstring, hobble a few steps and then look at the cameras and the attending hordes, who have their mouths wide open in shock, then with a big smile run off chuckling to himself. We need some humor in this process!

Maybe he will do a Deon and run his 40 and keep running till he is out of the LSU campus and in his car burning rubber all the way home.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I’m not to concerned about Jayden running the 40. I would like to see him weigh in at 210 or more, but even if he doesn’t it really doesn’t concern me. If he comes into the league and is an electric playmaker, the refs won’t allow anyone to touch him. The new hip drop rule is just another way to protect these guys. The NFL is on a path to try to keep their superstars healthy and on the field. 

 

This is legitimately one of the most delusional things I've ever read. You think refs are going to somehow stop players from hitting a QB who has effectively become a running back on the play?

 

Once he's off to the races he's a running back and he can be hit like one. As long as it's not an illegal hit like helmet to helmet, etc. then it's completely allowed and the refs aren't going to suddenly step in and tell players they can't hit.

Edited March 27 by mistertim

[mac8887]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This is legitimately one of the most delusional things I've ever read. You think refs are going to somehow stop players from hitting a QB who has effectively become a running back on the play?

 

Once he's off to the races he's a running back and he can be hit like one. As long as it's not an illegal hit like helmet to helmet, etc. then it's completely allowed and the refs aren't going to suddenly step in and tell players they can't hit.

I don’t think it’s “delusional”. The league is all about protecting these QBs.  The league just had the owners meeting, and during it they came out with  another rule to protect these guys, the hip drop swivel. I’m not to concerned about Jayden taking legal hits. He’s taken plenty and hasn’t been injured yet. 

Edited March 27 by mac8887

[bh32]

Just now, mac8887 said:

I don’t think it’s “delusional”. The league is all about protecting these QBs. 

Yeah QB's that stay in the pocket..once he breaks the line of scrimmage he is fair game unless he slides and we all know JD ain't sliding.

[mac8887]

2 minutes ago, bh32 said:

Yeah QB's that stay in the pocket..once he breaks the line of scrimmage he is fair game unless he slides and we all know JD ain't sliding.

The new rule even protects players that are out of the pocket.

[CommanderInTheRye]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Standig who has won some awards for being correct as to mock drafts.

 

 

 

Matt Miller today.  lol, i guess its Daniels day with the mocks.  It's pretty even between Maye and Daniels typically

 

2024 NFL mock draft: Miller predicts seven rounds, 257 picks

ROUND 1

1. Chicago Bears (via CAR)

Caleb Williams, QB, USC

The Bears trading Justin Fields to Pittsburgh cements their selection of a quarterback at No. 1 overall. Williams is not only the best one in this class, but also the best of the past decade. A talented creator under center, he accounted for 120 touchdowns in his three-year college career (93 passing, 27 rushing) to just 14 interceptions. The Bears have built a fantastic supporting cast, allowing Williams the chance to see instant success. He'll be a Week 1 starter and could have a C.J. Stroud-like impact here.

---

2. Washington Commanders

 

Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

Everything is new in Washington -- ownership, general manager and coach. And there will be a new quarterback, too. Daniels' dual-threat ability is an ideal fit for new offensive coordinator Kliff Kingsbury's version of the Air Raid offense. With back-to-back seasons of over 1,000 rushing yards and a nearly perfect QBR of 99.5 on passes over 20 yards, Daniels would thrive with wide receivers Terry McLaurin and Jahan Dotson opening things up down the field. The Commanders will have a tough decision to make between Daniels and North Carolina's Drake Maye, but I see Daniels as the clear-cut QB2. He's also ready to play immediately after starting 55 games in college; Maye might have more upside, but Daniels is ready to excel right now.

---

Projected mock trade: Minnesota moves up for a QB

The Vikings made an early move to acquire pick No. 23 in the draft from the Texans, and it would allow their front office to aggressively come up the board from No. 11 for a top-three quarterback. I have Minnesota sending Nos. 11 and 23, along with a 2025 first-rounder, to New England for this third pick. The Vikings badly need a solution under center. The Patriots' hole there is less dire in the short term since they have a solid bridge option on the roster in Jacoby Brissett. The extra draft capital would allow for better roster building under exec Eliot Wolf and coach Jerod Mayo as the architects of this post-Bill Belichick team.

---

3. Minnesota Vikings (via mock trade with NE)

Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina

Maye is a big-armed and mobile, with the tools to thrive under coach Kevin O'Connell. With a star left tackle in Christian Darrisaw, arguably the league's best receiver in Justin Jefferson and a very good WR2 in second-year player Jordan Addison, the Vikings' offensive supporting cast is perfect for a rookie quarterback. Maye is raw, and in many situations it would be best for him to sit and learn for a year, but the Minnesota structure could get him on the field early. He has thrown for 7,929 yards and 62 TD passes over the past two seasons.

 

play

1:44

The plays that make UNC's Drake Maye a top NFL prospect

Take a look at the top plays from Drake Maye during his time at North Carolina.

---

Projected mock trade: Denver also moves up for a QB

With quarterbacks going 1-2-3 to start the draft, I could see the Broncos getting on the phone and sending a package to Arizona for the No. 4 pick to get QB4. I think it would take something in the realm of pick No. 12, a 2025 first-rounder and a 2026 first-rounder. The deal is molded like the deal the 49ers made in 2021 to move up for Trey Lance, and yes, it's an expensive trade package. But if Broncos coach Sean Payton lands his quarterback, no one will care much about the cost to move up to get him. The Cardinals, meanwhile, would have multiple first-rounders in 2024, 2025 and 2026.

---

4. Denver Broncos (via mock trade with ARI)

J.J. McCarthy, QB, Michigan

McCarthy is a tough, instinctive and accurate quarterback with plus-level mobility and great play from the pocket. I'm not saying he's Drew Brees, but the style of play would fit very well with what Payton ran in New Orleans. McCarthy is relatively inexperienced with just 28 starts in college, but he left Michigan with a 27-1 record. He completed 72.1% of his passes and threw only four picks last season, and his third-down QBR of 86.7 was 11th-best in the nation. McCarthy would be a sure bet to beat out Jarrett Stidham and start Week 1 in Denver.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39806887/2024-nfl-mock-draft-matt-miller-seven-rounds-257-picks-predictions

 

The majority of the forum, I know, will be just fine with whatever the professionals decide.

 

I just hope that the relatively few members out there who have vociferously proclaimed in no uncertain terms that they are completely committed to one guy and one guy only, and have said that a certain player or players should not, and/or will not, be selected by the team, can get behind and fully support whoever we select, even if that means accepting graciously, an ample serving of crow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27 by CommanderInTheRye

[bh32]

2 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

The new rule even protects players that are out of the pocket.

What rule?

[mistertim]

Just now, mac8887 said:

The new rule even protects players that are out of the pocket.

 

It protects players from one specific type of tackle. They can still be completely trucked by legal hits. And just because Daniels has somehow managed to not get hurt yet means nothing. The more a guy gets hit the more chances he has of getting hurt, just that simple. Daniels tucks and runs more than almost any other QB since 2019 after he breaks the pocket. He also sucks at sliding often doesn't even bother.

 

Yes, you're delusional.

[mac8887]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

It protects players from one specific type of tackle. They can still be completely trucked by legal hits. And just because Daniels has somehow managed to not get hurt yet means nothing. The more a guy gets hit the more chances he has of getting hurt, just that simple. Daniels tucks and runs more than almost any other QB since 2019 after he breaks the pocket. He also sucks at sliding often doesn't even bother.

 

Yes, you're delusional.

I’m not “delusional”. The league has come out and said its main objective is to protect these guys. I’m also not going to assume injury onto someone with no injury history.

[Warhead36]

You can protect em all you want, theres no protection against basic physics. 

[skinsfan66]

I think the hip drop rule is a good rule. I think TE's and taller WR's will be on the list of favoring this change, it's their worst nightmare. They go across the middle and the smaller DB's do this tackle all the time, but they have turned it into a trip by sticking their leg in between the receivers' legs and the others pile on the leg. It's as bad as the horse collar maybe worst. Like sticking your leg in a ladder as it falls over. If a QB can slide this will not affect him.  

Edited March 27 by skinsfan66

[DogofWar1]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

You can protect em all you want, theres no protection against basic physics. 

 

Exactly.

 

Just throwing some weights an speeds into a calculator here.  Here's a hypothetical 222 random college linebacker who has no real NFL prospects and whose closing speed is 14 mph.

 

And here's a calculation based on Ray Lewis' weight and 40 time

 

 

According to google, joules convert 1:1 to Newtons and it takes about 4000 newtons to break bones.

 

So sure, he's generally not getting hit with enough force in the nfl to snap bones, but comparing average college hits to average NFL hits is risky.

 

These dudes are heavier, run faster, and thus hit harder.

 

In the video game Mass Effect 2, while describing rail guns I think, they throw in the quote "Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a **** in space."

 

I'd say the same applies to the gridiron.

[Est.1974]

Holy **** what’s going on in here 

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I’m not “delusional”. The league has come out and said its main objective is to protect these guys. I’m also not going to assume injury onto someone with no injury history.

 

The league is not stopping people from getting hit. They're banning one specific type of tackle, like they did with the horse collar tackle years ago. A player can still absolutely get hit really hard legally. And Daniels will get hit really hard, legally...because once he breaks the pocket and tucks it he's a running back and he sucks at sliding and often doesn't even do it. How long he'll last is anyone's guess.

Edited March 27 by mistertim

[MartinC]

5 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

Exactly.

 

Just throwing some weights an speeds into a calculator here.  Here's a hypothetical 222 random college linebacker who has no real NFL prospects and whose closing speed is 14 mph.

 

And here's a calculation based on Ray Lewis' weight and 40 time

 

 

According to google, joules convert 1:1 to Newtons and it takes about 4000 newtons to break bones.

 

So sure, he's generally not getting hit with enough force in the nfl to snap bones, but comparing average college hits to average NFL hits is risky.

 

These dudes are heavier, run faster, and thus hit harder.

 

In the video game Mass Effect 2, while describing rail guns I think, they throw in the quote "Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a **** in space."

 

I'd say the same applies to the gridiron.

I played QB. I was not very fast - when they timed my 40 they used a sun dial. In games however I was a very effective scrambler and could run away from and around linebackers and even elude DBs. I had "game speed". I rarely took big hits while running.

 

This calculation explains why I got faster and very aware of who was around me when large unreasonably angry humans were chasing me with ill intent. 

[Llevron]

This offseason is really starting to get to you guys lol

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The league is not stopping people from getting hit. They're banning one specific type of tackle, like they did with the horse collar tackle years ago. A player can still absolutely get hit really hard legally. And Daniels will get hit really hard, legally...because once he breaks the pocket and tucks it he's a running back. How long he'll last is anyone's guess.

 

Its hard to argue that the ways to legally hit a QB haven't changed significantly since we watched RG3 get crumpled regularly and I think that's all he is trying to say. NFL is trying to protect playmakers for sure. Will it help Daniels? Hopefully lol.