2022 Draft Order/Tracker: Now Picking #11

[philibusters]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

How did Philly get Miami’s pick?

 

BTW, Miami has really squandered their draft capital.

 

Nevermind, that was part of the Tua trade up, I think.

 

I think Miami traded last year's 12th overall pick plus a first rounder this year to move up to 6 last year to draft Jaylen Waddle.  It seemed like a bad move at the time.

[abdcskins]

LB, safety, or corner.  Do not reach and draft a QB.  It would be Haskins all over again 😧

[Daniel.redskins]

It seems there are 3 sure thing first round qbs next draft: Corral, Willis, and Ridder. Personally, I like Ridder the best. With his size and speed, if anyone could become Josh Allen like it will be him. Corral seems too skinny for the NFL. I think he weighs 190 which is smaller than Murray. I think Willis has Murray potential but he really needs to sit for a couple years and that wouldn't work for us. Howell, Strong, and Pickett seem to be the Tier 2 guys. Pickett is an intriguing option as he seems like an athletic version of Kirk Cousins. I just wouldn't take him in the first due to average arm strength.  I'm not a fan of Howell or Strong.   

 

We cannot enter next season with the same QBs.  I know people will laugh but I think Trubisky is an intriguing option. He has a cannon and can scramble. There were times in Chicago where he looked Josh Allen like. Obviously Rodgers and Wilson are options as well but how much are we willing to spend?  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, abdcskins said:

LB, safety, or corner.  Do not reach and draft a QB.  It would be Haskins all over again 😧

 

As a dude who slammed the idea of taking Haskins before the draft, and openly rooted for Haskins to go before our pick so we didn't take him, I respectfully disagree.  There are some intriguing QB prospects IMO who look distinctly better than Haskins.  We are talking about them plenty on the draft thread.  But of course we need the season to play out before feeling confident about any of them. 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As a dude who slammed the idea of taking Haskins before the draft, and openly rooted for Haskins to go before our pick so we didn't take him, I respectfully disagree.  There are some intriguing QB prospects IMO who look distinctly better than Haskins.  We are talking about them plenty on the draft thread.  But of course we need the season to play out before feeling confident about any of them. 

 

This missing the point he and others are making.  We don't know where we are drafting yet nor where these QB prospects are going to be worth taking a risk on jus because we, like other teams need a QB. 

 

I dont want to see us trade up for someone or take what falls in our lap unless we honestly believe they can be a franchise QB.  Not a good one, but someone to build around and can win us games even while we are working on the rest of the team.  

 

We also have a track record of drafting guys that don't fit out offense, square pegs in round holes, and are shoved down the coach's throat because we need a franchise QB.

 

Nah, bump that, let's jus get another veteran and try and build a good team until we are position to get the right guy, not a guy.  Signing Ryan was a good idea, we should do something like that again considering no rookie will be able to keep up with the way we are giving up points right now, so why bother putting them in that spot?

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This missing the point he and others are making.  We don't know where we are drafting yet nor where these QB prospects are going to be worth taking a risk on jus because we, like other teams need a QB. 

 

I dont want to see us trade up for someone or take what falls in our lap unless we honestly believe they can be a franchise QB.  Not a good one, but someone to build around and can win us games even while we are working on the rest of the team.  

 

We also have a track record of drafting guys that don't fit out offense, square pegs in round holes, and are shoved down the coach's throat because we need a franchise QB.

 

Nah, bump that, let's jus get another veteran and try and build a good team until we are position to get the right guy, not a guy.  Signing Ryan was a good idea, we should do something like that again considering no rookie will be able to keep up with the way we are giving up points right now, so why bother putting them in that spot?

 

Supposedly they liked Fields but were only willing to trade up if he fell closer to their pick -- Keim said in the last off season based on what he heard he thinks they will be aggressive this coming off season at the spot.

 

I think they will try to trade for a veteran or if there is a prospect they love and lets say he's likely not available at their pick they will try to trade up.  

 

Personally, I got two QB prospects I am especially intrigued by but want to see the college season play out.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

8 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This missing the point he and others are making.  We don't know where we are drafting yet nor where these QB prospects are going to be worth taking a risk on jus because we, like other teams need a QB. 

 

I dont want to see us trade up for someone or take what falls in our lap unless we honestly believe they can be a franchise QB.  Not a good one, but someone to build around and can win us games even while we are working on the rest of the team.  

 

We also have a track record of drafting guys that don't fit out offense, square pegs in round holes, and are shoved down the coach's throat because we need a franchise QB.

 

Nah, bump that, let's jus get another veteran and try and build a good team until we are position to get the right guy, not a guy.  Signing Ryan was a good idea, we should do something like that again considering no rookie will be able to keep up with the way we are giving up points right now, so why bother putting them in that spot?

 

Franchise quarterbacks are made more than found.  Every year there are multiple prospects good enough to be built into franchise QBs provided they end up on teams with good and stable coaching staffs and strong roster building and solid orginizational support.  There is a reason good franchises always seem to find quarterbacks and bad ones like us never do.

 

The first step to a successful rebuild is hiring the right front office structure.  The GM is really the most important figure in the building, something that I feel gets recognized in baseball and basketball, but much less so in football.

 

But once you get past that, the foundation of a rebuild is head coach and quarterback.  You can not build a contender without first building that foundation.  Otherwise you're building a house upon nothing and it will collapse.  This is the reason why so many new coaching staffs that take over teams with no QB draft or trade for or sign a QB in their first off-season.  Rarely do they wait until off-season two or three.  And if Rivera doesn't pick one in off-season three, he's probably not making it to off-season four.  Three seasons of losing records and no direction at QB whatsoever would be intolerable.

 

He's gotten a ton of latitude to make decisions about the QB position, and to put off picking a direction for so long.  Primarily because no one else has been at the wheel of the franchise.  That's not going to continue, he's going to pick a direction this off-season, it's ridiculous that he hasn't already.

[Koolblue13]

I do think we have the makings of a great spot for a rookie QB. Good oline, good TEs, a very good WR. We need to address the ground and pound RB, because Gibson just isn't built for it. He's great and McKissic is a great 3rd down back, but we really need a grinder. If we're going with a rookie QB, a veteran RB would be a massive asset. 

 

I think Zambezi and Turner can be good coaches and we have the stability to develop a young QB.

[Renegade7]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Franchise quarterbacks are made more than found. 

 

I agree its a bad idea to have no plan at QB in year three, but I have zero confidence in this franchise finding then developing a rookie into a franchise QB.  If it wasn't about to be year three, maybe I'd be more patient with the "rebuild". 

 

But signing Fitz shows Rivera knows he needs somebody who knows what they are doing right now.  With our defense last year, we didn't need much, but now he's hurt and secondary is reeling.  This franchise is a mess, a rookie wouldn't stand a chance here, we've seen that over and over again.

[Going Commando]

39 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I agree its a bad idea to have no plan at QB in year three, but I have zero confidence in this franchise finding then developing a rookie into a franchise QB.  If it wasn't about to be year three, maybe I'd be more patient with the "rebuild". 

 

But signing Fitz shows Rivera knows he needs somebody who knows what they are doing right now.  With our defense last year, we didn't need much, but now he's hurt and secondary is reeling.  This franchise is a mess, a rookie wouldn't stand a chance here, we've seen that over and over again.

 

I don't disagree with you.  TBH I too have basically no confidence in this organization's ability to develop a first round draft pick into a franchise QB.  I can't completely give up hope because then what's the point of being a fan?  But yeah, my head says I don't think we can do it either.

 

But the draft isn't the only route to finding a QB good enough to contend with.  We could trade for or sign a reclamation QB who flamed out with his draft team.  Or best case scenario, we get one of these disgruntled superstar QBs who is looking for a change of scenery.  That would shortcut the minefield of the rebuilding process by several years and launch us into immediate contention.

[KDawg]

I think everyone is overlooking the fact that our franchise QB may be on another team right now.

 

Really, the possibilities are endless for what we may wind up doing with our first round pick.

 

If we need to go stop gap, Trubisky is 100% a solid option. Spending a year in Buffalo with a top flight MVP candidate in front of him is going to do wonders for his confidence and skills. 

[88Comrade2000]

You guys are dreaming if a first tier QB: Wilson, Rodgers or Watson would want to come here. Expect a trade or signing of a second tier qb like Trubisky, Jimmy G or even Darnold, if Carolina moves on from him. Maybe Mariota?

[Koolblue13]

Trubinski will be a FA. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I agree with @stevemcqueen1 about many things.  I get the point about QB's being made, I agree but also disagree.  No doubt you want to support your QB with good supporting players and a good staff.  100% true.  But that IMO is only 50% of it.  The other 50% of it is what kind of person that player is.  What kind of drive. How smart are they?  How good is he?

 

I know i am using a movie cliche but Rocky was a great movie because you are watching a dude with extraordinary drive who doesn't go down for the count no matter what obstacles he faces.   It's a great movie because not everyone is like that as opposed to it being a dime a dozen quality.   And heck yeah there are some football players who are special in that way.  But most are not.  Cooley who has been around many football players in his career and loves breaking down film so he's into ability and diving deep on that front -- still said one time if he were a GM the top thing he's try to gauge is who loves football -- who has that drive.  He finds that to be what seperates players the most and its right there with talent in its importance. 

 

Peyton Manning wasn't great IMO because he joined the Colts.  He was terrible and the team was terrible in season 1.  But his confidence wasn't shattered because he was Peyton Manning.  He had great ability but also special makeup. You watch Peyton talk about football and he just lights up.  He even says he loves the sport so much that he can't get enough of it.   Justin Herbert isn't great because he was under the tutlege of Anthony Lynn.   And the Chargers just do everything right.  He's successful IMO in a large part because of his ability, smarts and drive.

 

Bill Belichick without Brady has a losing record.   Brady is a special dude.  Not just talented but a maniac of a worker.  Jim Nagy who is around college draftable players every year talks frequently about how the makeup of every player isn't the same and he looks at that heavily as for who to tout especially at QB.  Nagy highlighted Justin Herbert from being around him before it was known he was the goods.  He also highlighted Mac Jones this off season on that front. 

 

I trust Rivera to have a franchise QB here. Cam Newton was that.  They ran RO before most of the rest of the league modeled them.  Cam did worse in NE then Carolina not because IMO Rivera ran a better offense but because Newton's injuries caught up with him.   Some thought McVay fixed Jared Goff.  But it clearly didn't hold.  I can go on and on and on. 

 

I don't believe the hard part is fostering good QB play here.  Heck an undrafted FA QB who was out of football is putting up numbers in this offense.  So if they land a really talented QB, I got little doubt that they'd play well here.  The hard part is finding that QB.  And my point its not just about the talent of that QB but their personality plays heavily into the equation.  And this isn't some off beat quirky opinion that is just held by me.  Arians has talked about this subject.  Ditto Shanny.  Ditto Gibbs.  To find that special QB you need a talented dude with the right personality.  And those guys aren't easy to find. 

 

Some consider the Bengals the worst organization in the NFL, articles written about it.  Bad owner among other things.  Yet Joe Burrow is being Joe Burrow.  He can't be denied.  Would Burrow fail here?  I doubt it.   Burrow by most accounts is a special dude. 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think everyone is overlooking the fact that our franchise QB may be on another team right now.

 

Really, the possibilities are endless for what we may wind up doing with our first round pick.

 

If we need to go stop gap, Trubisky is 100% a solid option. Spending a year in Buffalo with a top flight MVP candidate in front of him is going to do wonders for his confidence and skills. 

 

I am about as out on Trubisky as it gets. 😀    But I do agree that there is a good chance they trade for a QB versus draft one.  If I had to guess who right now? Matt Ryan.

 

Wilson and Rodgers i don't think would be willing to come here.  And I can't really think of any other good QB who hits the trading market. 

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am about as out on Trubisky as it gets. 😀    But I do agree that there is a good chance they trade for a QB versus draft one.  If I had to guess who right now? Matt Ryan.

 

Wilson and Rodgers i don't think would be willing to come here.  And I can't really think of any other good QB who hits the trading market. 

 

 

I wouldn't be so hasty on Trubisky. Keep in mind, I'm mentioning him as a stop gap. Many of his issues were Nagy related and he is getting a major boost in Buffalo right now.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I wouldn't be so hasty on Trubisky. Keep in mind, I'm mentioning him as a stop gap. Many of his issues were Nagy related and he is getting a major boost in Buffalo right now.

 

I don't care much about the preseason.  I know he got some revenge against his former team.  I've seen enough of the sample in the regular season to reach the conclusion from my perspective that he's not a gamer.  He has some good good games here and there.  But to me he's not consistent enough and doesn't rise to the occasion when it counts. 

 

Look I could be wrong about him.  It wouldn't be the first time.   But I did spend some time thinking about him in the off season and decided he's not the guy.   But again that is just my opinion.

 

https://dknation.draftkings.com/nfl/2021/8/21/22635578/mitchell-trubisky-stats-vs-bears-revenge-game-video-preseason-week-2-josh-allen-bills-backup-qb

The preseason slate means we got a Trubisky revenge game opportunity on Saturday — and the former Bear did not disappoint! In his first two drives, Trubisky led the Bills to a pair of touchdowns. He did not have any huge plays in either drive, but completed 12 of 17 passes for 113 yards and a touchdown.

 

 

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/qb-accuracy-chart-reveals-how-brutal-mitch-trubisky-was-in-2020/

Trubisky had by far the lowest on target rate of anybody in the league.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't care much about the preseason.  I know he got some revenge against his former team.  I've seen enough of the sample in the regular season to reach the conclusion from my perspective that he's not a gamer.  He has some good good games here and there.  But to me he's not consistent enough and doesn't rise to the occasion when it counts. 

 

Look I could be wrong about him.  It wouldn't be the first time.   But I did spend some time thinking about him in the off season and decided he's not the guy.   But again that is just my opinion.

 

https://dknation.draftkings.com/nfl/2021/8/21/22635578/mitchell-trubisky-stats-vs-bears-revenge-game-video-preseason-week-2-josh-allen-bills-backup-qb

The preseason slate means we got a Trubisky revenge game opportunity on Saturday — and the former Bear did not disappoint! In his first two drives, Trubisky led the Bills to a pair of touchdowns. He did not have any huge plays in either drive, but completed 12 of 17 passes for 113 yards and a touchdown.

 

Only thing I'd say to you is that last offseason I would have agreed.

 

Now I'm not sure that I do. It's a different year and he's in a great situation with great people learning the game from that perspective and away from Nagy. 

[srtman04]

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Bill Beichick without Brady has a losing record.   Brady is a special dude.  Not just talented but a maniac of a worker.  Jim Nagy who is around college draftable players every year talks frequently about how the makeup of every player isn't the same and he looks at that heavily as for who to tout especially at QB.  Nagy highlighted Justin Herbert from being around him before it was known he was goods.  He also highlighted Mac Jones this off season on that front. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm convinced Tom Brady is an alien from another planet.   He's outta this world on so many levels....freak of nature itself lol.  

Edited October 13, 2021 by srtman04

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Only thing I'd say to you is that last offseason I would have agreed.

 

Now I'm not sure that I do. It's a different year and he's in a great situation with great people learning the game from that perspective and away from Nagy. 

 

I'll start with I don't discount anyone's opinion on QBs if they feel like they'd watched that QB.  So if you like what you've seen recently, I take note.

 

But for my opinion to change I would need to see if for myself.  Right now my memories about Trubisky come from watching some games over the years and rewatching some games during the last off season as I did for other impending FAs. 

[Koolblue13]

Rocky lost that fight sip.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Rocky lost that fight sip.

 

Like Heinicke against Brady but it made Heinicke a legend anyway. 

 

 

[cakmoney61]

I was just wondering about having a thread like this after losing to the Saints combined with their hellacious schedule over the next several weeks.  I expect Washington to rise and rise and rise up the draft board.  A top five pick is in this team's future.

 

It sure would be nice, however, to see them compete in at least a couple of those games, but I honestly don't expect them to.

[DiscoBob]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think everyone is overlooking the fact that our franchise QB may be on another team right now.

 

Well... I think we are all damn sure he's not on our team right now.

 

 

[philibusters]

Trubisky was consistently underwhelming in Chicago, but I am still intrigued.   One thing he was is very consistent.   Unfortunately it was consistently meh.   Every year as a start his PFF grade was in the 60's, which is what you would call a serviceable QB.  Compare that to Fitzpatrick who has one seaosn in the 80's (82), a couple in the 70's, a few in the 60's and a one in the 50's.  Fitzpatrick may also be an example of how the team you play for does impact how you play.   The season he had a 52 PFF score was when he played for the Jets.  Maybe in a new setting Trubisky can be better.  Twice he has lead teams to the playoffs.   If he could get from consistently being in the 60's to being in the 70's, if we could sure up the LB and secondary he could get this team to the playoffs consistently.  That is a big if---but the appeal to him is he a free agent  so you don't have to give up draft capital and you could get him on a multiple year deal fairly cheap allowing you to continue build the roster in other positions, but also letting you move on if he is not good. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by philibusters