All things defense

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, philibusters said:

I think Montez Sweat is having a pro bowl year.  I think Payne is having a good year, but I don't think he is as good as Allen or Sweat.   Sweat has a 81 pass rush grade and 80 run defenses grade.  Very good balanced player.

 

I don't. But, as harsh as I've been on Sweat I think he is much better against the run than he used to be and is a good pass rusher and an overall good defensive end. I don't think he's a great finisher, but with Young active maybe he starts getting home more often and I change my overall thought on that aspect of his game. 

 

My biggest "thing" with Sweat is: "Is he worth the contract he is going to demand?"

 

As of now, I'm not sure. With Young, Sweat, Allen and Payne (he needs to be re-signed) we have a ton of resources tied up in the starting DL and that group hasn't played together in that many games considering this is year 3 of that grouping. I haven't looked into it too deeply but Young has only played 24 games so far in 2.5 seasons of a possible 44 games. Not sure who else has missed time in that window that they all could have been on the field together but that's a huge number to tie up in the DL for a group that is rarely all healthy. 

 

If something has to give I think it's going to be Sweat.

 

But, again, credit where it is due. He is a good player who knows how to get to the QB and now is playing well against the run. I'd just like to see him finish those opportunities more before we back the truck up. 

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am listenting to Sheehan in recent days and Grant Paulsen both often cynical about this team and boy have they gone overboard the other way -- talking about how good this team is and how they can not only make the playoffs but win a game in it -- Grant saying this is better than the teams he's seen in the playoffs during his lifetime -- and this defense is for real, etc. 

 

I don't know if i agree it runs through Payne.  But Payne's been VERY good.  I've been saying for a long time if you watch the D line on coaches tape which I do from time to time but not recently -- people would be surprised about Allen taking on double teams and playing some nose.  He's an eclectic player.  Allen I think is the best player on their defense.  But Payne and Sweat IMO is close behind him.   Overall the D line is finally playing to their hype and its fun to watch.

 

Although I am afraid with all the adulation they get it will jinx them. . Sheehan talking right now that we are 1 point favorites in Vegas for the upcoming game in NY and how Vegas now takes this team very seriously.  I'd rather they don't.  I like the underdog vibe better. 

 

I think the DL goes through Allen AND Payne, to be honest. And in extension, the entirety of the defense.

 

Curl is probably the next most important piece of the defense. I think he is an all-pro type of player (but he won't be because of my next sentence). Doesn't get his name in flashing lights because he doesn't make too many splash plays but he is all over the field and is about as sure of a tackler as you'll see in the League. Forrest isn't as sound, in fact he's kind of the opposite of Curl, which is what makes that grouping so fun to watch.

 

Forrest misses more reads, but he has good recovery speed and is ALWAYS around the ball. He's not as sure of a tackler but he'll come downhill and blast someone. He's the flash, Curl is the silent assassin. It's a fun safety group. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

Sweat is going to get paid.    Love to have more sacks versus QB hits but he's still likely to ends up with double digit sacks so I think that won't effect his payday. 

 

I admit I haven't really glued into him as a run stopper but I know by reputation throughout his career he was hailed as a good run stopper with the hiccup being last season when it feels like Chase and Sweat brought the worst out of each other as to free lancing.  PFF has him as a borderline elite run stopper through most of his career so at least they back his rep on that front. 

 

So hopefully with Chase's return they don't bring out the worst of each other again -- am guessing they had some bet over who has more sacks or something -- they were thick as theaves all last off season and Montez bragged about them setting the sack record.  Hopefully both of them have matured.

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

I was hoping that the D line old school style would define the team and make them good.  It really hasn't happened until now.  But now that it has I am not breaking up that band especially at their age -- they are in peak form. 

 

 

NFL playoff race: Get to know the best defense that no one has been talking about

This is an emerging, super-stingy group that's been flying under the radar

 

There's an NFC East defense that ferociously pressures the quarterback, hardly allows passing offenses to get off the ground, and scoffs at the idea of the opposition efficiently running the football. And it's emerged as such a stingy unit without a genuine household name. 

The Commanders boast the NFL's best defense no one's talked about this season. Be honest, you haven't. Heck, it took me until the week of Thanksgiving to take the brawny essence of Washington's defensive unit seriously. Oddly enough, it came after a dominant effort against the lowly Texans for this realization to take place in my thick skull. 

 

OK, most serious football fans know Jonathan Allen. He's been bringing the heat since his rookie season in 2017. For as annually disruptive as Allen is, he doesn't have the same name recognition as some of the superstar defenders in his own division. He had calmly whistled his way through another routine day at the office in Week 11 against the Texans with six pressures and two sacks on 33 pass-rush opportunities. At defensive tackle, Allen's season 11.2% pressure-generation rate is rather massive. 

 

Then there's the often unnoticed, former first-round pick Montez Sweat. In a 2019 draft class overflowing with defensive front talent -- Nick Bosa, Jeffery Simmons, Quinnen Williams, Dexter Lawrence, Ed Oliver, and Christian Wilkins -- Sweat has quietly hummed under the radar in Washington.

 

He's having a season as monstrous as his combine workout, when he ran 4.41 with a 36-inch vertical and 7.00 three-cone time at 6-foot-5 and 260 pounds. To date, the former Mississippi State star has registered 45 pressures on 315 pass-rushing snaps. While that doesn't equate to a ginormous pressure-creation rate (14.2%), the high-volume nature of that statistic makes it impressive. 

Because of his supreme athletic gifts and imposing size, often when Sweat wins, those victories are worthy of going viral. Sweat was aligned at right defensive end here. Hold onto your butts. 

 

 

Sweat and Allen may be the anchors on the line of scrimmage, but they're hardly the sole reason Washington has morphed into one of the league's least-fun-to-play defenses. The safety duo of Kamren Curl and Darrick Forrest have emerged as one of the best in the NFC, if not all of football. Seriously. 

Curl's the prototypical strong safety/linebacker hybrid at 6-1 and 200-ish pounds. He's everywhere, particularly against the run and he filters in a flash to any action underneath or at the intermediate level. The former Arkansas star averages more than six tackles per game and has five tackles for loss in nine outings. Forrest, the rangier of the two, already has three interceptions, six pass breakups, and two forced fumbles on the season. 

Curl was a seventh-round selection in 2020. Forrest was picked in Round 5 a year ago. That's probably partly why they're massively underrated. They entered the league with minimal fanfare. 

Check how much ground Forrest covered on this interception against the Texans in Week 11. 

 

Impossible to miss on that play: the brilliant coverage and tip from Benjamin St-Juste. As a third-round draft choice, he had more pedigree than Curl or Forrest, yet still fits the "no name" mantra of this Washington defense because he famously didn't record an interception in three collegiate seasons and had just one pass breakup in his final year at Minnesota. 

But he's a rare cat at corner, standing in at over 6-3 and 204 pounds with nearly 33-inch arms. St-Juste has settled into his role as a suffocating perimeter defender. He's batted away seven passes heading into Week 12's game against the Falcons. 

The linebacker duo of Jamin Davis and Cole Holcomb, a clear liability in 2021, is on the upward swing. Davis has played with more assertiveness and quicker reactionary skills against the run and Holcomb continues to outplay his fifth-round draft position by leading the team with 69 tackles. 

As is the case with any high-caliber defense, the Commanders are getting quality pitch-ins from rotational pieces. Front-seven defenders Efe Obada, Casey Toohill, and James Smith-Williams have each flashed as pass rushers in limited roles. 

Clearly, I can't rave enough about the collective effort of Ron Rivera's club and the mostly superstar-less identity of it makes that unit even more commendable. 

On the season, Washington's allowed 20.3 points per game, good for 12th in the league. Since Taylor Heinicke became the starter, the Commanders have surrendered just 17.6 points per contest. In that five-game stretch, they've allowed an average passer rating of 84.2 and less than 70 yards rushing in each outing. 

The Heinicke story, finally earning a "starting quarterback" label in the NFL, is a fantastic one. But the Commanders defense, with some unjustifiably overlooked studs and a gang of chippy overachievers, is the true foundation of this club being in the thick of the NFC playoff race after winning five of its last six games.

Oh, and Chase Young -- who does possess serious superstar juice -- is due back in Week 12. HELLO. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-playoff-race-get-to-know-the-best-defense-that-no-one-has-been-talking-about/

Edited November 23, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

21 teams in the history of sacks in the NFL have had a year with 3 guys having 10+ sacks and we have 3 guys with 6+.

 

Pretty cool.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

Sweeping the Giants and shoving their heads into the bottom of the division would be so sweet.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Sweeping the Giants and shoving their heads into the bottom of the division would be so sweet.

 

Me too.  Most of my in-laws are Giants fans -- the Giants matchup has been sort of my private in house bragging rights SB.  I hate the Giants.

 

They got maybe one of the better rivals talent wise to our DT room -- Dexter Lawerence and Leonard Williams are studs. 

[HigSkin]

 

[FootballZombie]

I know we didn't draft him but Ridgeway is gonna put new focus on out behavioral evaluation of rookies next year.

 

Either that or start checking GPAs. lol

 

 

Every team needs a few "Monster go get football" kinda dudes... but daym.

[Jabbyrwock]

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

I know we didn't draft him but Ridgeway is gonna put new focus on out behavioral evaluation of rookies next year.

 

Either that or start checking GPAs. lol

 

 

Every team needs a few "Monster go get football" kinda dudes... but daym.

 

You just gotta know Ridgeway has a superman T on under that jersey.  Get 'em Sloth.

 

 

[Going Commando]

Ridgeway is dumb but strong.  Good make up for a nose tackle.

[Going Commando]

Just wanted to point out that Mathis wasn't drafted in the second round just to be a fat mashing run plugger.  The dude plays third downs and gets to the QB.  We got him to be a complete player and help bolster our interior pressure.  He's got skills.

 

Also wanted to add that I don't think Montez sees the ball super well.  He's a super athlete with an awesome combo of length and power to go with his speed, so he does a lot of winning, but last week was not the first time I noticed he was a step late recognizing a screen, and ended up having to make the pursuit tackle down field instead of the Ryan Kerrigan play to end it in the backfield (often with a turnover or by playing the pass itself).  I think this lack of processing speed is the reason Montez has so many almost big plays.  If he had Kerrigan's instincts, he would be the best DE in the NFL.  And I'm not sure instincts get a ton better for a guy going into his fifth year.

[NoVaSkins21]

Ridgeway needs more tutelage from Zgnonia and could learn a lot from Allen and Payne.  He's still raw and but will get better as time goes along.  

[Going Commando]

If we have to make hard choices about who to keep on the DL, Montez is the odd man out for me.  I think he's pretty close to peaking and if we give him a four or five year deal, the last two or three seasons of it could be rough.  And I think trading him soon could be selling high.

[Chris 44]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was hoping that the D line old school style would define the team and make them good.  It really hasn't happened until now.  But now that it has I am not breaking up that band especially at their age -- they are in peak form. 

 

 

NFL playoff race: Get to know the best defense that no one has been talking about

This is an emerging, super-stingy group that's been flying under the radar

 

There's an NFC East defense that ferociously pressures the quarterback, hardly allows passing offenses to get off the ground, and scoffs at the idea of the opposition efficiently running the football. And it's emerged as such a stingy unit without a genuine household name. 

The Commanders boast the NFL's best defense no one's talked about this season. Be honest, you haven't. Heck, it took me until the week of Thanksgiving to take the brawny essence of Washington's defensive unit seriously. Oddly enough, it came after a dominant effort against the lowly Texans for this realization to take place in my thick skull. 

 

OK, most serious football fans know Jonathan Allen. He's been bringing the heat since his rookie season in 2017. For as annually disruptive as Allen is, he doesn't have the same name recognition as some of the superstar defenders in his own division. He had calmly whistled his way through another routine day at the office in Week 11 against the Texans with six pressures and two sacks on 33 pass-rush opportunities. At defensive tackle, Allen's season 11.2% pressure-generation rate is rather massive. 

 

Then there's the often unnoticed, former first-round pick Montez Sweat. In a 2019 draft class overflowing with defensive front talent -- Nick Bosa, Jeffery Simmons, Quinnen Williams, Dexter Lawrence, Ed Oliver, and Christian Wilkins -- Sweat has quietly hummed under the radar in Washington.

 

He's having a season as monstrous as his combine workout, when he ran 4.41 with a 36-inch vertical and 7.00 three-cone time at 6-foot-5 and 260 pounds. To date, the former Mississippi State star has registered 45 pressures on 315 pass-rushing snaps. While that doesn't equate to a ginormous pressure-creation rate (14.2%), the high-volume nature of that statistic makes it impressive. 

Because of his supreme athletic gifts and imposing size, often when Sweat wins, those victories are worthy of going viral. Sweat was aligned at right defensive end here. Hold onto your butts. 

 

 

Sweat and Allen may be the anchors on the line of scrimmage, but they're hardly the sole reason Washington has morphed into one of the league's least-fun-to-play defenses. The safety duo of Kamren Curl and Darrick Forrest have emerged as one of the best in the NFC, if not all of football. Seriously. 

Curl's the prototypical strong safety/linebacker hybrid at 6-1 and 200-ish pounds. He's everywhere, particularly against the run and he filters in a flash to any action underneath or at the intermediate level. The former Arkansas star averages more than six tackles per game and has five tackles for loss in nine outings. Forrest, the rangier of the two, already has three interceptions, six pass breakups, and two forced fumbles on the season. 

Curl was a seventh-round selection in 2020. Forrest was picked in Round 5 a year ago. That's probably partly why they're massively underrated. They entered the league with minimal fanfare. 

Check how much ground Forrest covered on this interception against the Texans in Week 11. 

 

Impossible to miss on that play: the brilliant coverage and tip from Benjamin St-Juste. As a third-round draft choice, he had more pedigree than Curl or Forrest, yet still fits the "no name" mantra of this Washington defense because he famously didn't record an interception in three collegiate seasons and had just one pass breakup in his final year at Minnesota. 

But he's a rare cat at corner, standing in at over 6-3 and 204 pounds with nearly 33-inch arms. St-Juste has settled into his role as a suffocating perimeter defender. He's batted away seven passes heading into Week 12's game against the Falcons. 

The linebacker duo of Jamin Davis and Cole Holcomb, a clear liability in 2021, is on the upward swing. Davis has played with more assertiveness and quicker reactionary skills against the run and Holcomb continues to outplay his fifth-round draft position by leading the team with 69 tackles. 

As is the case with any high-caliber defense, the Commanders are getting quality pitch-ins from rotational pieces. Front-seven defenders Efe Obada, Casey Toohill, and James Smith-Williams have each flashed as pass rushers in limited roles. 

Clearly, I can't rave enough about the collective effort of Ron Rivera's club and the mostly superstar-less identity of it makes that unit even more commendable. 

On the season, Washington's allowed 20.3 points per game, good for 12th in the league. Since Taylor Heinicke became the starter, the Commanders have surrendered just 17.6 points per contest. In that five-game stretch, they've allowed an average passer rating of 84.2 and less than 70 yards rushing in each outing. 

The Heinicke story, finally earning a "starting quarterback" label in the NFL, is a fantastic one. But the Commanders defense, with some unjustifiably overlooked studs and a gang of chippy overachievers, is the true foundation of this club being in the thick of the NFC playoff race after winning five of its last six games.

Oh, and Chase Young -- who does possess serious superstar juice -- is due back in Week 12. HELLO. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-playoff-race-get-to-know-the-best-defense-that-no-one-has-been-talking-about/

Noticed in all of that Payne wasn't mentioned...not because he is not good, think it was because we have a bunch of play makers on defense. Telling, in a good way, that he didn't get mentioned.

[Warhead36]

I don't know Sweat seems like the kind of guy who could easily explode for 15+ sacks. Its gonna be like Preston Smith all over again where he never got double digit sacks here but then as soon as he goes to Green Bay he gets a bunch and makes the Pro Bowl. I think he's still scratching the surface of his potential.

 

Personally I feel like we CAN keep the entire DL. The contracts are gonna be staggered out anyway, the salary cap is only gonna get higher and higher(and could explode with a new TV deal on the horizon)and of course we're about to get that Bezos money.

[NoVaSkins21]

7 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

If we have to make hard choices about who to keep on the DL, Montez is the odd man out for me.  I think he's pretty close to peaking and if we give him a four or five year deal, the last two or three seasons of it could be rough.  And I think trading him soon could be selling high.

IMO, as long they don't have a QB to pay big money (long term deal), it could be possible to keep all four.  The foundation of this team is finally their DL and now that they have right coaching which has allowed the group to flourish.  

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

If we have to make hard choices about who to keep on the DL, Montez is the odd man out for me.  I think he's pretty close to peaking and if we give him a four or five year deal, the last two or three seasons of it could be rough.  And I think trading him soon could be selling high.

 

He'd be the odd man out for me too.  But if possible I want all 4.  Is it doable?  I don't know.  But I do know the cap is supposed to soar soon.   

[Warhead36]

It absolutely is possible. Again, the Bucs brought back an entire Super Bowl winning team and that's with Brady getting a big salary. The Rams won it all and basically brought back the entire team, on top of that ADDED Wagner and Robinson(they got rid of Woods and OBJ because both were coming off big injuries)AND they were in the market for McCaffery and Quinn at the trade deadline.

 

You just need an owner that's cash rich and some creativity in your FO.

[NoVaSkins21]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

It absolutely is possible. Again, the Bucs brought back an entire Super Bowl winning team and that's with Brady getting a big salary. The Rams won it all and basically brought back the entire team, on top of that ADDED Wagner and Robinson(they got rid of Woods and OBJ because both were coming off big injuries)AND they were in the market for McCaffery and Quinn at the trade deadline.

 

You just need an owner that's cash rich and some creativity in your FO.

Right now it looks like the Rams are paying the piper after trading all those picks and basically have no depth, but I do agree that new ownership that wants to win will help in the structure of this team.

[philibusters]

For me Payne would be the odd man out.  I think it is easier to get DT's in free agency than DE's and they go a little lower in the draft.  We have to rookies in Mathis and Ridgway.  I don't think either of them will ever be as good as Payne, but if you really want to, you could use a first or second rounder this year and get a good DT as it is good year for DT's after like 3 straight meh drafts for the position.

 

I don't think Ridgway is an uprade over Matt Ion.  I think he is a slight downgrade.  That said he is way cheaper and they are different players.  Matt Ion. brings you a lot more as a pass rusher, but maybe wasn't in the same tier as a run defender as Ridgway.  Matt had one year where had a PFF grade above 70 and that included a 64.4 run grade that year, but that was hte only year Matt finished with above a 60 in run defense.  By contrast, every year but his rookie year he finished above 70 in pass rush grade.

[Koolblue13]

Mathis is the gap between Allen and Paynes play and the perfect rotational guy between them. Wise and Ridgeway are excellent depth.

 

Chase should be like super charged Sweat and we have to see what the difference between their style is next year, but the reason the Line is playing at a special level is mostly the middle of it. That needs to stay together and continue to evolve.

 

Obada, JSW and Toohill are really nice pieces to have on the line outside as well. This Dline is top to bottom incredible and it's showing on the field. There is no reason that we can't keep these guys together for a few years, whilw we un-**** the center of the offense, because we have plenty of skill players there.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

If we have to make hard choices about who to keep on the DL, Montez is the odd man out for me.  I think he's pretty close to peaking and if we give him a four or five year deal, the last two or three seasons of it could be rough.  And I think trading him soon could be selling high.

 

I'm with ya, jus want to see what we getting from Young first.

 

It's entirely possible Young doesn't end up better then Sweat.  Sweat has had more games where I felt he was better, granted some before Young got here, and not coming off a major knee injury.  And not once was Sweat asked about doing commercials instead of OTAs.

 

This is NOT a Chase is a bust post, this is a make sure what he actually is before calling Sweat odd man out post.  I want to be wrong, Young has more upside and we have more time with him in a rookie contract then Sweat.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

[Warhead36]

Young is the one guy on our defense that can be a complete game wrecker single handily like a Watt or Parsons type. I'm not saying he's that guy right now, but he has that kinda potential. Nobody else on our defense does, as good as some of them are.