All things defense

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 hours ago, Silvernon said:

Mathis is clearly a bust.

 

The 2nd round should be reserved for a starter and he is one the three worst players of that round. 

I think that’s a bit harsh.  He missed his entire rookie season with a torn ACL and then started this year on IR.  
 

I think it’s premature to judge him.  A torn ACL is a tough injury to recover from. It’s also a “bad luck” injury.

 

I didn’t like the pick at the time, just because we keep spending high draft capital on the less important side of the ball.  

[Silvernon]

6 hours ago, method man said:

I think you are remembering Fuller now but not remembering the Fuller from the first half of 2021 and first half of 2022 who got smoked on the regular. I became a BSJ fan early last season when they played the Eagles the first time and he played competently against Brown and Smith. The tools are absolutely there with the smarts, the size, the length and the elite quickness for a man his size, which allows him to play in the slot. With better coaching from a real secondary coach (not a guy JDR scooped up from a high school), I think that guy can help BSJ build his confidence so that he doesn’t have to be as grabby and he does a better job looking back for picks.

 

You guys have to remember that he didn’t actually play a lot of college football given the injuries he dealt with at Michigan

I just looked up their rating on PFF and one is evaluated as a great starter and the other below-average/replacement level. 

 

It's BSJ vs Forbes for the CB1 and I don't see how St-Juste wins. More likely both are not the guy and they'll have to go back to the draft well. 

 

I'm sure someone with access to those sites could show me that the eye test of Curl and Fuller being the best players checks out for analytics. 

[DWinzit]

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think that’s a bit harsh.  He missed his entire rookie season with a torn ACL and then started this year on IR.  
 

I think it’s premature to judge him.  A torn ACL is a tough injury to recover from. It’s also a “bad luck” injury.

 

I didn’t like the pick at the time, just because we keep spending high draft capital on the less important side of the ball.  

I hated that pick as well and have been ultra frustrated with the lack of availability and production from him.

 

I do agree that it is early to call him a bust but dang, he best start picking it up because he is teetering

[method man]

1 hour ago, Silvernon said:

I just looked up their rating on PFF and one is evaluated as a great starter and the other below-average/replacement level. 

 

It's BSJ vs Forbes for the CB1 and I don't see how St-Juste wins. More likely both are not the guy and they'll have to go back to the draft well. 

 

I'm sure someone with access to those sites could show me that the eye test of Curl and Fuller being the best players checks out for analytics. 

I don’t think PFF always does the best job grading players in the secondary because they don’t always understand coverage responsibilities. I think ultimately both guys are #2 corners but BSJ shows a bit more ability to cover #1 receivers, which he did more of last season. Fuller is the smarter player, plays with better technique and has more experience. BSJ is the more physically talented of the two by quite a bit.

Ultimately, our best hope is that Forbes shows some #1 corner ability so that we are not forced to give an older guy like Fuller a long term deal

[Warhead36]

Fuller is solid. He's not a "shutdown" CB but those are extremely rare, there might be like 3-5 in the league total right now at most. But you can rely on him to not get roasted by average receivers.

 

St. Juste has more upside because of his size and measurables but he's just so sloppy with his hands and his lack of ball skills means teams don't fear going at him. He's been thrown at I believe something like the 3rd most times in the league. Now he does lead the league in PBUs but again that's because teams target him so much because there is no fear factor. He doesn't get interceptions and its a 50/50 shot he'll commit a penalty on any given pass.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

13 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

we held the Giants to 14 points last time and I think we got three turnovers

It was an 8 point fantasy game. That's mediocre at best. We barely hit double digits one time all season. First game of the year vs Arizona ( 12 ) We stink. We scored negative 5 last week. LOL. 

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Fuller is solid. He's not a "shutdown" CB but those are extremely rare, there might be like 3-5 in the league total right now at most. But you can rely on him to not get roasted by average receivers.

 

St. Juste has more upside because of his size and measurables but he's just so sloppy with his hands and his lack of ball skills means teams don't fear going at him. He's been thrown at I believe something like the 3rd most times in the league. Now he does lead the league in PBUs but again that's because teams target him so much because there is no fear factor. He doesn't get interceptions and its a 50/50 shot he'll commit a penalty on any given pass.

I like St Juste but he can be very frustrating at times. Worst thing about him is his dumb looking celebration thing. Lol. Whatever it is that he does after each pass break up.

[samy316]

14 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

we held the Giants to 14 points last time and I think we got three turnovers

 

The Giants moved the ball up and down the field at will in the 1st half against this team.  If we were playing a halfway decent opponent, that would've been a 28-0 or 35-0 halftime score.  The defense was about as pathetic as it gets in that 1st half.  They get a little bit of credit for what they did in the 2nd half, but overall they were a C- or D+ at best.  They made Tyrod Taylor look like Lamar Jackson for 2 Quarters, and he probably had his best day passing the ball in several years.  The whole D this year has been unacceptable and unforgivable.  Just a horrific season, and one that is entering the days of Haslett or Barry, where we wake up on game day, wishing to just hold opponents below 30, and not have opposing QB's or WR's have season high or career high days against us.

 

Isn't it hilarious that the one time we finally have an offense that looks like it can score 20-24 points per game consistently, our supposedly "strong" defense reverts back to the Haslett/Barry days, and we give up 30 PPG?  It never ends with this team.

Edited November 17, 2023 by samy316

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Worst thing about him is his dumb looking celebration thing. Lol. Whatever it is that he does after each pass break up.

If only he celebrated just pass break-ups, the guy celebrates when QBs throw an incomplete pass to the receiver he was 3 steps behind.

[Skinsinparadise]

[Warhead36]

Good grief. Literally only two guys over a 70. No wonder we suck on defense.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Guys like Mayo, Butler and Smith-Williams in the 50’s is no surprise.  But man, the two big dogs in the middle of the line have all but disappeared and that’s sad.

[oraphus]

Ron's roster building philosophy " Its not about skill!.. its about position flex!.. who else has a safety who could also play center in a pinch?!"

[Warhead36]

46 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Guys like Mayo, Butler and Smith-Williams in the 50’s is no surprise.  But man, the two big dogs in the middle of the line have all but disappeared and that’s sad.

We've seen flashes of them but no consistency. I think someone mentioned how they might be wearing down playing so many snaps and I think there might be some truth to that theory. Also in this scheme they're asked a lot to occupy blockers and contain instead of attacking and as a result you're getting beaten up a lot more without having the chance to make big plays.

[dyst]

I'm not a huge fan of BSJ

[Est.1974]

Just now, dyst said:

I'm not a huge fan of BSJ

Same. Can’t see him getting any better. 

[Warhead36]

Just now, dyst said:

I'm not a huge fan of BSJ

I like him as a solid #2 outside CB. He's too handsy and not enough of a playmaker to be on #1s but he should be able to play well against most #2s and he's a good matchup against some of the bigger stronger WRs. 

[RandyHolt]

BSJ is always on my fantasy guys pick on list and has been since last year. He says you already know we are picking on St Juste.. he's a big physical guy that I would like to see shadow a Mike Evans type. Sure he may not be up for a shadow but you know what? He and no one is up for what we are doing, and a shadow assignment KEEP THINGS SIMPLE at least. We need to get back to basics. Our D needs a reset.

 

Those PFF grades are kinda useless unless you compare them to clones of JDR on every team league wide.

 

Say it with me #DelRiosGottaGo

Edited November 17, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Chris 44]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Good grief. Literally only two guys over a 70. No wonder we suck on defense.

We lack any kind of bonafide game changers on defense. Most teams have one or two, we have zero.

 

If you really think about it, how many players outside of Payne, Allen and perhaps Fuller would start for another team.

Forgot about Curl.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Chris 44

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

10 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

We lack any kind of bonafide game changers on defense. Most teams have one or two, we have zero.

 

If you really think about it, how many players outside of Payne, Allen and perhaps Fuller would start for another team.

Forgot about Curl.

Don't forget defensive rookie of the year, Emmanuel Forbes!

[Going Commando]

19 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Good grief. Literally only two guys over a 70. No wonder we suck on defense.

 

We used to have Chase Young and Montez Sweat too.  Talent wasn't our issue until we made it one.

18 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Guys like Mayo, Butler and Smith-Williams in the 50’s is no surprise.  But man, the two big dogs in the middle of the line have all but disappeared and that’s sad.

 

PFF can't grade IDLs.  Their system actually punishes the ones who play a ton of snaps, despite that being one of the markers of the top end players at the position.

[Going Commando]

15 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

If you really think about it, how many players outside of Payne, Allen and perhaps Fuller would start for another team.

Forgot about Curl.

 

Juice and Jamin would start for a ton of teams too.  Hell Quan would probably be starting for more teams than not, and the fact that he isn't playing for our high school caliber system is yet another major indictment of the coaching here.

 

Edge went from a strength to dismal weakness for us at the trade deadline.  But before that, having eight or nine out of your core 11 on defense being good players was a ton of talent.  That's more than enough talent to dominate and run a top five group, which is what we did last year.

 

We quit on this defense and dismantled it because they were getting torched by big passing plays because our coaching was incompetent.  Vieselmeyer and Del Rio should have been the ones shipped out, not Chase and Montez.

[Silvernon]

21 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Thank your for this.

 

Ok, so say what you will about PFF but I said the two clearly best players on the D based on the eye test were Fuller and Curl, and this checks out. 

 

21 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Good grief. Literally only two guys over a 70. No wonder we suck on defense.

I would assume Sweat was graded well. 

 

But yes, Payne/Allen and Jamin in the 80s would be game changing. 

 

19 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I like him as a solid #2 outside CB. He's too handsy and not enough of a playmaker to be on #1s but he should be able to play well against most #2s and he's a good matchup against some of the bigger stronger WRs. 

I think you want your CB1 to be on the X, and that player is often a better physical specimen....and therefore it really doesn't make sense to have BSJ unless he can become a CB1.

 

It's not as simple as saying that since he is not a legit CB1, then obviously he's a better than average CB2. I legitimately think they are different positions in today's NFL. Even more so the case for nickel and dime corners too.

[method man]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Juice and Jamin would start for a ton of teams too.  Hell Quan would probably be starting for more teams than not, and the fact that he isn't playing for our high school caliber system is yet another major indictment of the coaching here.

 

Edge went from a strength to dismal weakness for us at the trade deadline.  But before that, having eight or nine out of your core 11 on defense being good players was a ton of talent.  That's more than enough talent to dominate and run a top five group, which is what we did last year.

 

We quit on this defense and dismantled it because they were getting torched by big passing plays because our coaching was incompetent.  Vieselmeyer and Del Rio should have been the ones shipped out, not Chase and Montez.

Got it. So you would’ve made Montez the highest paid player on the team and looked to keep around a guy whose knee is in such bad shape that no team was willing to beat SF’s offer on for what was effectively a 4th

[method man]

24 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

Thank your for this.

 

Ok, so say what you will about PFF but I said the two clearly best players on the D based on the eye test were Fuller and Curl, and this checks out. 

 

I would assume Sweat was graded well. 

 

But yes, Payne/Allen and Jamin in the 80s would be game changing. 

 

I think you want your CB1 to be on the X, and that player is often a better physical specimen....and therefore it really doesn't make sense to have BSJ unless he can become a CB1.

 

It's not as simple as saying that since he is not a legit CB1, then obviously he's a better than average CB2. I legitimately think they are different positions in today's NFL. Even more so the case for nickel and dime corners too.

Have you forgotten that BSJ, at his size, can also man the slot? Do you realize that makes us one of the few teams that has an answer for big slot receivers like Kupp. 
 

What BSJ needs is to jam more at the LOS given his size and play with more confidence. The only thing he lacks is great deep speed - he is 6-3, long, has elite quickness at that size and is a smart player who studies his ass off. He is already starting caliber corner where he’s at with the potential to get to another level. I’m excited to see what he can do in a new scheme with better coaching

 

He is a top extension candidate for me this offseason.

[Silvernon]

1 hour ago, method man said:

Have you forgotten that BSJ, at his size, can also man the slot? Do you realize that makes us one of the few teams that has an answer for big slot receivers like Kupp. 
 

What BSJ needs is to jam more at the LOS given his size and play with more confidence. The only thing he lacks is great deep speed - he is 6-3, long, has elite quickness at that size and is a smart player who studies his ass off. He is already starting caliber corner where he’s at with the potential to get to another level. I’m excited to see what he can do in a new scheme with better coaching

 

He is a top extension candidate for me this offseason.

What are you his agent? Feeling the love.

 

You're not going to pay a nickel corner good money.