The Official Roster Thread or similar ;)

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

@stevemcqueen1 Appreciate the perspective/info man, changes the way I view him a bit, TBH.

 

Yeah his cut ups really went against the perception I had built up of him in my head.  Can't get off the line of scrimmage, can't play through contact, can't run a sharp tree, etc.  I just hadn't seen enough of him recently I guess, as he is better than I thought he was.  It feels kind of good actually, like finding money in your pants after you take them out of the dryer.

 

I think a lack of opportunity is the main things standing in his way.  He's got to stay healthy and he needs to find a role on special teams, and he needs to really bust ass to show the coaches he's better than Cam Sims and is worthy of getting snaps this year.  I'm kind of expecting him to make the roster now, and if he does stay healthy, then I think the snaps will come this year.  Our top WRs are going to miss time and that will be his chance.  And I think Fitz won't be shy about throwing the ball into coverage to give him chances.  He has to make the most of them.

[MisterPinstripe]

18 hours ago, Borgold said:

One thing I sometimes wonder about short yardage backs is how much power matters over vision. I mean it makes sense that you want a powerful running back, but a BIG running back is still going to be outweighed by 50-100 lbs by the Dlinemen he's trying to run through so I'd think you'd want someone with power/leg drive, but that vision and quickness matters just as much. The RB has to find the crease to exploit or be able to bounce it before his power matters.

Just enough power to break the arm tackles at the goal line.

 

...Did you change your name?

[Malapropismic Depository]

In a perfect world that revolves around our best interests, maybe it's possible we trade Kyle Allen before the season starts.

If he shows his foot grows back together in Alex Smith fashion, and that Fitz and Heiny also stay healthy, and both bang out in preseason play.

Of course I realize we wouldn't get much for him.

Maybe in exchange for the rights to the first UDFA a certain team has dibs on, in 2022

Edited August 19, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[JaxJoe]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Context to me though matters.  Not every player clearly is a killer starter.  If your 6th rounder is a capable backup, that's a really good pick.   Your roster should be filled up with capable backups.  Do I think Harmon has the ability to be a decent backup?  Yes, I do.

Harmon was drafted when we had Alex Smith so a big bodied possession receiver running 7-10 yard curls is a plus. With Fitzpatrick, we need receivers with wheels. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

6 minutes ago, JaxJoe said:

With Fitzpatrick, we need receivers with wheels. 

 

And we got 'em

 

McLaurin, Samuels, Brown. And if we keep Steven Sims. Though he's not really on their level.

Speed not a big need, any longer !

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

And we got 'em

 

McLaurin, Samuels, Brown. And if we keep Steven Sims. Though he's not really on their level.

Speed not a big need, any longer !

 

Sims runs about a 4.5.  I watched some clips of him against guys that had timed 40's, and that was my best guess.

 

So, he's about WR/CB average?

[mistertim]

55 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

I believe there is a genuine possibility that we trade Kyle Allen before the season starts.

Not real soon though, because it depends if he shows his foot is fully recovered,  and that Fitz and Heiny also stay healthy, as well as consistent in their play.

Of course I wouldn't expect to get much for him. But I still think we might trade him. Or maybe not. The solid depth of these 3 may be an important thing to hold onto.

So I'm kind of torn on that idea.

 

If Kyle Allen got released today he wouldn't be picked up. No way anyone is giving up a draft pick for him. We gave up a 5th round pick for him, and that was before he had a serious season ending injury that he still hasn't recovered from.

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

If Kyle Allen got released today he wouldn't be picked up. No way anyone is giving up a draft pick for him. We gave up a 5th round pick for him, and that was before he had a serious season ending injury that he still hasn't recovered from.

 

Sounds like you're fully on board the Heinicke Train now, buddy !

[ILikeBilly]

47 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

If Kyle Allen got released today he wouldn't be picked up. No way anyone is giving up a draft pick for him. We gave up a 5th round pick for him, and that was before he had a serious season ending injury that he still hasn't recovered from.

This is one of the reasons I am predicting he goes to the practice squad.  Real good chance that no one claims him and it keeps a 3rd QB in the fold in case of emergency.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Rumor has it if the Giants can't snatch some IOL help when everybody cuts their rosters down to the final 53, they would then trade for someone, maybe even a starter.

 

I'm glad we don't have any obvious holes for once.  Anyone remember back in 2016 when our DL was filled with rejects the other 31 teams didn't think were good enough for their rosters?  It was uggglllyyy.

 

Or 2016 and 2017 when our RB group were all guys out of the league within a year or two?

 

Or in 2017 and 2018 when our WR room had no viable outside WR's?

 

Man...I don't want to be blindly optimistic for 2021, but how were our previous rosters ever constructed that poorly?

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, ILikeBilly said:

This is one of the reasons I am predicting he goes to the practice squad.  Real good chance that no one claims him and it keeps a 3rd QB in the fold in case of emergency.

 

Maybe they keep 2 QBs on the active roster and just use Thomas as the emergency QB.

[Malapropismic Depository]

fwiw, Kyle Allen did look very good in 2020, before he was hurt.

Question is, how far is he now, from playing at that level

[TK]

5 hours ago, Borgold said:

the insidiousness of having to explain it was a drip torture I didn't expect

 

4 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Unless that was his intention 😁

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

fwiw, Kyle Allen did look very good in 2020, before he was hurt.

Question is, how far is he now, from playing at that level

 

He got hurt twice (Rams game and Giants game), and then reinjured his ankle in training camp.  He's as injury prone as Heinicke.

 

Difficult to assess him when he left 2 of his 4 games early.

 

I don't know what we have in Allen, I suspect not much, but I honestly can't say with confidence.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I recommend rewatching AGG's cut ups.  I didn't really watch him much before the draft, so I just rewatched them myself and they were surprisingly good.  If it's true that Scott Turner banged the table for him pre-draft, I think I can see why he did.  His big plays are absolutely spectacular, and when I said that I think his hands are more spectacular than Milne, I wasn't arguing that he's more consistent drops-wise.  Instead I was saying that he has that top tier Odell-like knack for hauling in the circus catches.

 

 

I just rewatched his senior bowl reps.  Then a couple of his college games.

 

It reminded me why I was unsure about him, didn't hate him, didn't love him. I think he's Doctson at worst.  P. Burress at best.  High pointing the ball seems to be his wheel house, along with slants.  The reason why i waffle on him is he's really IMO almost purely a contested catch guy.  He doesn't from what i watched have a lot of tricks in his bag.  And yeah he does look special high pointing the ball -- some really cool catches.  But you can tell also watching him on those contested catches, he's not exactly going up against Patrick Surtain.  

 

And considering he's not hot with his releases, getting off press so then what happens when you put him up against a physical corner?    A physical corner can potentially both disrupt his route and give him a serious fight for the ball unlike what he faced at the NCAA. 

 

 I am sticking to he's not quick.  By that I mean he's not sudden in and out of his breaks.  He is somewhat stiff IMO on that front.  Just average to me on that front.  I watched a lot of receiver play recently in camp including AGG and he just doesn't hit me quick or sudden.  You mentioned Beckham but in a different context.  Beckham is so sudden in his movements and has a killer double move that makes him so hard to stop.    AGG doesn't have that IMO. 

 

AGG does better it seems when he goes against off coverage, if he has a cushion.  And then his best shot to beat you is for him to run a vertical route around the numbers where he out jumps a CB who is draped on him or quick slants or shallow out routes.  

 

He reminded me a lot of what I liked about Josh Doctson who i ended up wrong about.   So maybe that makes me more cynical about AGG considering my miss on Doctson.  And then I'd add I don't hear much of AGG as far as working after practice.  I do think having hobbies are cool.  But I admit it brings me back to Michael Westbrook.  Makes me think some of K. Toney and his music and his supposed slow start in NY.  AGG is an interesting guy, plays guitar, paints, does puzzles, etc.  But does that distract him from excelling at football?  Not saying yes, not saying no.  i don't know.  But it makes me recall one of Rivera's interviews with a player this draft which he cited where he questioned a player about all his hobbies and then asked where does football fall on that list?  And he wasn't satisfied with his answer.

 

Overall, I am not negative on AGG.  But just playing some devil's advocate and explaining why i am not all sold on him. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Rumor has it if the Giants can't snatch some IOL help when everybody cuts their rosters down to the final 53, they would then trade for someone, maybe even a starter.

 

I'm glad we don't have any obvious holes for once.  Anyone remember back in 2016 when our DL was filled with rejects the other 31 teams didn't think were good enough for their rosters?  It was uggglllyyy.

 

Or 2016 and 2017 when our RB group were all guys out of the league within a year or two?

 

Or in 2017 and 2018 when our WR room had no viable outside WR's?

 

Man...I don't want to be blindly optimistic for 2021, but how were our previous rosters ever constructed that poorly?

 

Agree.  This roster is arguably the most loaded since the glory years.  Too bad we got a killer schedule this season. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

It sounds like AGG might a bit too much of a "generalist" in his (probably high) intelligence for the league. Most NFL teams seem to want guys who are smart, but in a certain way...myopically hyper-focused on their specific skill almost to the point of obsession. They don't want renaissance men or philosophers, or anything that could potentially be a distraction from football.

 

Hence Rivera not being satisfied in that player's answer about how he fits football into all of his hobbies. They don't want guys with too many hobbies or interests that they feel could be take away from the football focus.

[Riggo'sRangers]

55 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree.  This roster is arguably the most loaded since the glory years.  Too bad we got a killer schedule this season. 

As an ex-college athlete, I always wanted to play the best competition any time possible. Perhaps that bleeds over into my psyche as I actually really like that. Love it in fact. Heat hardens steel. We will damn sure know where we are at after this year and truly know areas of focus going forward. It’s going to be a wild ride & can’t wait.  I love the fact our schedule is hard. True validation or/and know what direction we need to go in the future. Good times. Hail

[RabidFan]

9 minutes ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

As an ex-college athlete, I always wanted to play the best competition any time possible. Perhaps that bleeds over into my psyche as I actually really like that. Love it in fact. Heat hardens steel. We will damn sure know where we are at after this year and truly know areas of focus going forward. It’s going to be a wild ride & can’t wait.  I love the fact our schedule is hard. True validation or/and know what direction we need to go in the future. Good times. Hail

As a local one year prophet said: “No Pressure, No Diamonds”. 🤣

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

There was a stat I saw a few years back about preseason and does the performance matter.  For almost everything, no.  But there was at least one big stat that came from it.  If the team fails to score 12 (or maybe it was 11?) points per game in the preseason, then they almost always suck in the regular season.  Regardless of how well they did the season prior.  Anything above that threshold and it had no correlation to regular season wins. 

 

Eagles had 16 points in the 1st game.  0 points (with the 4th quarter still to go) in the 2nd game.  They're looking dangerously close to failing the low point qualifier.

[Malapropismic Depository]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:47 PM, PartyPosse said:

Someone explain how Milne is any different than Trey Quinn?

 

 

I see, you're one of the Anti-Dax people ?

I know there's a special thread for Dax, and a thread for Anti-Dax discussion, so I won't go too far with this controversial subject.

But getting a shot of Dax injected into our offense, could be just what it needs to become immune to those 3 and Outs.

[NickyJ]

I don't have high expectations for AGG, but if he doesn't tear a homesickness in his knee like Doctson did, he can't be THAT bad.

Edited August 20, 2021 by NickyJ

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

5 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

But getting a shot of Dax injected into our offense, could be just what it needs to become immune to those 3 and Outs.

 

[Dark Acre]

With AGG, there is one primary question:  at 6'4/223#, with ups and strong hands, with as vast a mental processor for learning as he has, is he capable of some kind of play/pass route that is impossible to defend?  If there is, he's on the team.

Edited August 20, 2021 by GothSkinsFan

[Skinsinparadise]

Mac looking good again.  Forgot which beat writer said it but one said they heard the WFT would have taken Fields or Mac if they fell to 19. 

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Mac looking good again.  Forgot which beat writer said it but one said they heard the WFT would have taken Fields or Mac if they fell to 19. 

 

 

 

I get the feeling ERRRRybody gonna look good against that Philly D