2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Warhead36]

Y'all are nuts I'd happily take prime Santana Moss with the #11 pick. That guy put up 1500 yards with Mark freaking Brunell at QB and no legitimate receiving option. He'd absolutely torch the modern NFL. 

[Conn]

14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Y'all are nuts I'd happily take prime Santana Moss with the #11 pick. That guy put up 1500 yards with Mark freaking Brunell at QB and no legitimate receiving option. He'd absolutely torch the modern NFL. 

I don’t think there’s anyone who wouldn’t take that, that’s not the conversation around Moss that was happening I don’t think, there was just some miscommunication with a point that Die Hard made that was misinterpreted. 

[Warhead36]

6 minutes ago, Conn said:

I don’t think there’s anyone who wouldn’t take that, that’s not the conversation around Moss that was happening I don’t think, there was just some miscommunication with a point that Die Hard made that was misinterpreted. 

I see. I think people vastly overrate draft picks sometimes. The large majority of them are maybe average players at best. If you get even a Ryan Kerrigan like career out of any first round pick that's a huge win. 

 

I mean look at Sammy Watkins. He was a super hyped WR prospect. Dude is now on, what, his fourth team? And he's not a bad player or anything but definitely hasn't lived up to his draft status. And I'd argue he was still a worthwhile 1st round pick.

[Conn]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I see. I think people vastly overrate draft picks sometimes. The large majority of them are maybe average players at best. If you get even a Ryan Kerrigan like career out of any first round pick that's a huge win. 

 

I mean look at Sammy Watkins. He was a super hyped WR prospect. Dude is now on, what, his fourth team? And he's not a bad player or anything but definitely hasn't lived up to his draft status. And I'd argue he was still a worthwhile 1st round pick.

Yeah I mean, every player is their own beast, you have to decide what profile to bet on. And I’d bet on a Sammy Watkins profile and skill-set in the top-10 every single time. That’s just how it goes, and like you said he hasn’t been horrible. But he could have been incredible, and that’s what you bet on. 

[Forever A Redskin]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I'd be just as happy with George Pickens with his 2% Drop rate.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I'm feeling pretty good with our situation at #11.  I think we have guaranteed shots at good talent that will improve the team. 

 

Now we all have different opinions about which players improve the team more than others, but we're all in consensus that our situation at #11 is not a bad one to be in.  Drafts can be weird, I remember back in 2017 all of the mocks had only a few guys I liked that sometimes made it to #17 and I was worried we wouldn't land any of them.  Then somehow Jon Allen fell to #17.  Drafts always shake out in weird ways.  Who would have guessed that Corey Davis, Mike Williams, and John Ross all went in the first 9 picks.  All 3 of them were mocked more in the teens/twenties.  Even with draft weirdness throwing a wrench into all of our plans, I still think at #11 we can weather a lot of weirdness.

 

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I see. I think people vastly overrate draft picks sometimes. The large majority of them are maybe average players at best. If you get even a Ryan Kerrigan like career out of any first round pick that's a huge win. 

 

I mean look at Sammy Watkins. He was a super hyped WR prospect. Dude is now on, what, his fourth team? And he's not a bad player or anything but definitely hasn't lived up to his draft status. And I'd argue he was still a worthwhile 1st round pick.

 

In the 1st round I want upside. I want a guy who has the potential to be an All-Pro at his position. Usually that comes with some risk with a lower floor, but personally I'm willing to take that risk for the potential reward. That's why you stay at 11 and take JJ Watt instead of getting clever and trading down and getting Kerrigan. It's why you take Derwin James instead of Daron Payne at 13.

 

Olave IMO is in that class of guys who don't have the talent upside to become a truly elite player but will likely be a "solid" pro. Guys like London and Wilson do have that upside. I'd probably be ok with Olave if they traded down but I'll be pretty annoyed if they take him at 11 when there are likely more talented players on the board.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

58 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

In the 1st round I want upside. I want a guy who has the potential to be an All-Pro at his position. Usually that comes with some risk with a lower floor, but personally I'm willing to take that risk for the potential reward. That's why you stay at 11 and take JJ Watt instead of getting clever and trading down and getting Kerrigan. It's why you take Derwin James instead of Daron Payne at 13.

 

Olave IMO is in that class of guys who don't have the talent upside to become a truly elite player but will likely be a "solid" pro. Guys like London and Wilson do have that upside. I'd probably be ok with Olave if they traded down but I'll be pretty annoyed if they take him at 11 when there are likely more talented players on the board.

 

I think there's a flaw in your line of thinking.  People tend to put too much weight on things that will naturally show up more in college games than the NFL.  At a certain point, having instincts and advanced technical skills for their level should count for more than it does.

 

Olave has some serious "veteran" savvy on his college tape.  The way he operates against zone coverage is simply unfair at the college level.  Add on a high level of technical skill in how he beats press coverage and how he breaks on routes vs DB's leverage and you've got a WR that might translate better to the NFL game with NFL QB's/scheme than he did for the college game.

 

We don't know.  There's too much rolling of the dice to say Olave doesn't have superstar potential once he gets into the hands of NFL coaches, schemes, and QB's who read things better than college counterparts.

 

I still think London is a better prospect all-in-all.  But Olave's game might flourish more than we realize in the NFL.  There's too much unknown with how a players skills that weren't used well in college compared to the NFL game where suddenly they're in a situation where it can now be used.

 

Check out DeSean Jackson's college stats.  Does that look like he'd become the NFL player he eventually became?  He went at pick #49!  He was the 7th WR taken!  At a certain point, having silky smooth deep speed, ball tracking ability, and knack for attacking a DB's leverage matters more in the NFL than it does in college.  DeSean Jackson's skillset was always going to used better in the NFL than in college.

 

We can find oodles of players who were either misused in college, or didn't have a QB capable of using them to their potential.

 

P.S.  This is also a roundabout way of saying Nakobe Dean should be a 1st rounder.  How he's slipping to Round 2 in mocks makes no sense to me.

[wilco_holland]

In general you can slam any draft discussion down that it's a tombola/roulette table or whatever. If we knew what kind of player DJax would have become, he would have been an earlier pick. But if he was drafted earlier by a other team, there is no guarantee that he would had become the player he was...

 

So many factors are important for succes. That's the fun part. Even this 7th round pick can surprise you. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Watched 4 games of George Pickens.  The 2nd round grade to me I think fits even without the baggage issue.  I don't buy the narrative that he's a first tier WR, among the best receivers in this group if only for the injury and baggage.   

 

I think the 2nd tier stuff fits him perfectly -- and I'd go with him at the bottom of the 2nd tier for me.  That is, I'd take guys like Dotson, Skyy Moore, Calvin Austin, over him.   But after those guys, if and only if his character checks out I'd consider him.  But I am not with the narrative that he comes off like an elite WR that you can get at a discount.

 

When I watch him it makes me think some of Dez Bryant, with more speed.  Feels like a boom-bust prospect.  If you watch the Cincy game in particular you can see he's a high strung dude.

 

What I liked

 

A.  Tall with a really nice catch radius and really good hands -- acrobatic ESPN highlight type of catches. 

 

B.  I like him as a run blocker.  I noticed some rave about him on that front.  Not me.  His effort can wax and wane but he's mostly good IMO.

 

C.  One of those rare tall receivers who can get down the field and pose a vertical threat.   For him to make a living in the NFL, I think this would have to be his thing.  Making deep catches.  Sort of in that Alec Pierce mode.

 

D.  Even though he hasn't been a big time TD guy even in his rookie season -- he has the hands and radius to be that in the NFL.

 

 

My problems

 

A.  The off the field baggage, suspension for breaking team rules, some on the field incidents, his head coached called him selfish and undisciplined.

 

B.  His route tree seemed really limited.  Go routes and comebacks that play off of the go routes.  Some underneath stuff but not enough for my liking.  Not a well rounded WR IMO.

 

C. To play off point B, he doesn't seem to have many moves to shake off defenders.  He doesn't come off to me as a finesse route runner like lets say Olave.  Tough for me to tell about his releases but he's scrawny so it makes me wonder.

 

D.  You wonder if a physical cover can shut him down.  Ala Josh Norman in his heyday could shut down Dez Bryant.  I recall Norman saying Bryant didn't run many routes and had just a few moves and once you nail that down, he can be nailed down.  I feel somewhat the same way about Pickens.  Nick Saban as we know is a smart defensive coach.  Alabama basically neutralized Pickens in their matchup -- only one catch. 

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

6 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I think there's a flaw in your line of thinking.  People tend to put too much weight on things that will naturally show up more in college games than the NFL.  At a certain point, having instincts and advanced technical skills for their level should count for more than it does.

 

Olave has some serious "veteran" savvy on his college tape.  The way he operates against zone coverage is simply unfair at the college level.  Add on a high level of technical skill in how he beats press coverage and how he breaks on routes vs DB's leverage and you've got a WR that might translate better to the NFL game with NFL QB's/scheme than he did for the college game.

 

We don't know.  There's too much rolling of the dice to say Olave doesn't have superstar potential once he gets into the hands of NFL coaches, schemes, and QB's who read things better than college counterparts.

 

I still think London is a better prospect all-in-all.  But Olave's game might flourish more than we realize in the NFL.  There's too much unknown with how a players skills that weren't used well in college compared to the NFL game where suddenly they're in a situation where it can now be used.

 

Check out DeSean Jackson's college stats.  Does that look like he'd become the NFL player he eventually became?  He went at pick #49!  He was the 7th WR taken!  At a certain point, having silky smooth deep speed, ball tracking ability, and knack for attacking a DB's leverage matters more in the NFL than it does in college.  DeSean Jackson's skillset was always going to used better in the NFL than in college.

 

We can find oodles of players who were either misused in college, or didn't have a QB capable of using them to their potential.

 

P.S.  This is also a roundabout way of saying Nakobe Dean should be a 1st rounder.  How he's slipping to Round 2 in mocks makes no sense to me.

 

Good thoughts and I also agree with you about Dean. 

[cakmoney61]

19 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Funny, just finished my first R1 mock draft with trades.

 

1. JAX - Aidan Hutchinson, DE Michigan

2. DET - Travon Walker, DE Georgia

3. HOU- Evan Neal, OT Alabama

4. NYJ - Ikem Ekwonu, T/G NC State

5. NYG - Charles Cross, OT Miss. State

*Trade. KC Sends (1)29, (1)30, (2) 50 and (4) 121 and 7(233) to Carolina for 1(6)

6. KC - Jameson Williams, WR Alabama

 

I don't think KC will have to trade up to #6 to secure Jameson Williams.  The compensation looks okay for Carolina, I guess, but that is a long drop from #6 to the bottom of the first round.  OTOH, Carolina could take one of those late firsts and trade it for even more draft capital. 

 

The total compensation from pick #6 would be a significant haul since they don't have a second- or third-round pick in this year's draft.

[Going Commando]

35 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

I don't think KC will have to trade up to #6 to secure Jameson Williams.  The compensation looks okay for Carolina, I guess, but that is a long drop from #6 to the bottom of the first round.  OTOH, Carolina could take one of those late firsts and trade it for even more draft capital. 

 

The total compensation from pick #6 would be a significant haul since they don't have a second- or third-round pick in this year's draft.

 

Yeah it's not enough.  They'd be trading QB1 or maybe OT2 in that deal and they desperately need a QB for Ruhl to survive.  So unless they snag Baker Mayfield for a song, I think they're going to stay put and draft Pickett.

[KDawg]

A QB isn’t saving Rhule. They will be a top 5 pick again next year with a new HC. They should have fired Rhule if they want a QB. Wasted pick if they do it.

 

Also, I think they’re going to do it. Very Redskinny.

[DWinzit]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watched 4 games of George Pickens.  The 2nd round grade to me I think fits even without the baggage issue.  I don't buy the narrative that he's a first tier WR, among the best receivers in this group if only for the injury and baggage.   

 

I think the 2nd tier stuff fits him perfectly -- and I'd go with him at the bottom of the 2nd tier for me.  That is, I'd take guys like Dotson, Skyy Moore, Calvin Austin, over him.   But after those guys, if and only if his character checks out I'd consider him.  But I am not with the narrative that he comes off like an elite WR that you can get at a discount.

 

When I watch him it makes me think some of Dez Bryant, with more speed.  Feels like a boom-bust prospect.  If you watch the Cincy game in particular you can see he's a high strung dude.

 

What I liked

 

A.  Tall with a really nice catch radius and really good hands -- acrobatic ESPN highlight type of catches. 

 

B.  I like him as a run blocker.  I noticed some rave about him on that front.  Not me.  His effort can wax and wane but he's mostly good IMO.

 

C.  One of those rare tall receivers who can get down the field and pose a vertical threat.   For him to make a living in the NFL, I think this would have to be his thing.  Making deep catches.  Sort of in that Alec Pierce mode.

 

D.  Even though he hasn't been a big time TD guy even in his rookie season -- he has the hands and radius to be that in the NFL.

 

 

My problems

 

A.  The off the field baggage, suspension for breaking team rules, some on the field incidents, his head coached called him self and undisciplined.

 

B.  His route tree seemed really limited.  Go routes and comebacks that play off of the go routes.  Some underneath stuff but not enough for my liking.  Not a well rounded WR IMO.

 

C. To play off point B, he doesn't seem to have many moves to shake off defenders.  He doesn't come off to me as a finesse route runner like lets say Olave.  Tough for me to tell about his releases but he's scrawny so it makes me wonder.

 

D.  You wonder if a physical cover can shut him down.  Ala Josh Norman in his heyday could shut down Dez Bryant.  I recall Norman saying Bryant didn't run many routes and had just a few moves and once you nail that down, he can be nailed down.  I feel somewhat the same way about Pickens.  Nick Saban as we know is a smart defensive coach.  Alabama basically neutralized Pickens in their matchup -- only one catch. 

 

 

 

Agree on your Pickens take. I have him well down my board due to the baggage he brings. It reflects as poor decision making and outweighs the good.

 

I have Pierce in the midst of your 2nd WR tier above Pickens. 

 

The WR I still have a difficult time with is Burks. I do not see him in the top 15 like some do. Is he bottom of tier 1, is he middle of tier 2? 

 

I am with most on Olave, he is definitely worth it at 18 but not really at 11. I love his game and high floor. I feel that way about Sky Moore also in the 2nd round. They have great floors.

 

I find the discussion fascinating when it comes to some posters wanting to go risky at 11 on a player with high ceilings but don't like Williams because of injury history or do like him but don't like Stingley. To me Stingleys 2019 would have him number one on my big board by a substantial amount. Want a risk reward, go back and watch him incredible. 

[Koolblue13]

I either want to trade back a little, a lot or draft someone good.

 

I guess it's probably Lloyd, Hamilton Davis, Olave, London in that order for me with trading back big my first choice.

[Warhead36]

8 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I think there's a flaw in your line of thinking.  People tend to put too much weight on things that will naturally show up more in college games than the NFL.  At a certain point, having instincts and advanced technical skills for their level should count for more than it does.

 

Olave has some serious "veteran" savvy on his college tape.  The way he operates against zone coverage is simply unfair at the college level.  Add on a high level of technical skill in how he beats press coverage and how he breaks on routes vs DB's leverage and you've got a WR that might translate better to the NFL game with NFL QB's/scheme than he did for the college game.

 

We don't know.  There's too much rolling of the dice to say Olave doesn't have superstar potential once he gets into the hands of NFL coaches, schemes, and QB's who read things better than college counterparts.

 

I still think London is a better prospect all-in-all.  But Olave's game might flourish more than we realize in the NFL.  There's too much unknown with how a players skills that weren't used well in college compared to the NFL game where suddenly they're in a situation where it can now be used.

^^100% this. People are sleeping on Olave's actual skill and technique. There is something to be said about a guy who is only 21(turns 22 in June) and already has this high level of instinct and WR IQ. Oh and he also runs a sub 4.4 40.

 

Maybe he won't be a megastar, but I personally don't think any WR in this class will be. But if you're telling me he's gonna play 10 years, rack up a bunch of 1000 yard seasons and make a few Pro Bowls, I'd take that everytime.

[Going Commando]

We were on to something bringing Metchie in for a visit.  I'm telling you guys, he is the best route runner in the class, and that is one of the most important and translatable skills a prospect can have.  That is the biggest reason dudes like Justin Jefferson and Smitty had such early success.  The way Metchie paces his routes is superb, constantly making adjustments, stutter steps, gearing up explosively, whatever it takes to maintain space.  If you're a QB, Metchie is the WR you want because he is always open and you know that at almost any point in the sequence of the play he is going to be keeping your throwing lane to him clear and he's looking for the ball.  He is your safety blanket who you can default to when the coverage or pressure surprises you.  The kid is an Alpha receiver who isn't scared of giving you a target in dicey zone situations with safeties coming downhill on him.  I think he's going to be a very high volume receptions/targets guy at the next level who can have 100+ catch seasons.

 

Literally the only hole in his game are the drops.  All of the receivers this year have flaws which are fairly significant, and I can live with Metchie's.  If he were healthy, he'd be a first round lock.

 

I wish they had a metric they could track of "time spent open and with a good throwing lane" on a per passing snap basis, because that is the kind of revelatory metric that would demonstrate the immense value of route running skill and football IQ at the position.  That is the kind of metric Metchie would dominate.  And it's the kind of metric that would explain why Cooper Kupp and Davante Adams and Steve Smith are so dominant and keep them from falling through the cracks on day one of the draft.  There are way faster and bigger and more explosive receivers in the game than them, but those guys are/were the best because they get open and give their QB a reliable target and they are so aggressive that they are looking for the ball the entire game.

 

Metchie is the guy for us.  Trade down and get him and get Kenneth Walker and Nakobe Dean.  That is our home run draft.

[Skinsinparadise]

52 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Agree on your Pickens take. I have him well down my board due to the baggage he brings. It reflects as poor decision making and outweighs the good.

 

 

Yeah between the baggage and me not blown away by his play.  He actually reminds me a little of Cam Sims.  I'd pass on him.   I don't rule out a good NFL career but there are too many things in my mind that would have to come together for him for me to roll the dice on it.

 

53 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

 

 

I have Pierce in the midst of your 2nd WR tier above Pickens. 

 

 

I do, too.

 

54 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

 

 

The WR I still have a difficult time with is Burks. I do not see him in the top 15 like some do. Is he bottom of tier 1, is he middle of tier 2? 

 

 

Me, too.  I like Burks though a clear peg or two over Pickett.   I lean positive on Burks.   He's another boom-bust prospect IMO but I'd bet more on boom than bust.  He's my favorite WR in this class if we are talking purely about YAC.  I feel with him in particular he needs the right team fit.

 

56 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

 

I am with most on Olave, he is definitely worth it at 18 but not really at 11. I love his game and high floor. I feel that way about Sky Moore also in the 2nd round. They have great floors.

 

 

Me, too.  For me I'd add Dotson to that as to high floor.  

 

 

[KDawg]

I think this kind of belongs here though also somewhat off topic…

 

With the XFL announcing a partnership with the NFL Alumni Academy, I have to wonder if Dwayne Johnson’s plan is to create a true minor league for the NFL. 
 

XFL is partnered with ABC/ESPN. 
 

If that happens, we will have additional places to scout players as both a free agent and rookie. 
 

Speaking of… the USFL kicks off today. Not sure there’s much worth watching. John Franklin III, Jordan Ta’amu and a few others that are familiar here are there. XFL kicks off next spring. 
 

They’ve tried this before on both ends. And it’s failed. But I think the XFL is being genuinely built to be NFL Minor League. Something to keep an eye on for our draft thread.

[Going Commando]

21 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

^^100% this. People are sleeping on Olave's actual skill and technique. There is something to be said about a guy who is only 21(turns 22 in June) and already has this high level of instinct and WR IQ. Oh and he also runs a sub 4.4 40.

 

Maybe he won't be a megastar, but I personally don't think any WR in this class will be. But if you're telling me he's gonna play 10 years, rack up a bunch of 1000 yard seasons and make a few Pro Bowls, I'd take that everytime.

 

Agreed.  See my post about Metchie as a similar argument.  But if you like instinct and skill and IQ, then Metchie is just as good, if not better.  Olave is faster, which is big.  He can absolutely fly and that is something I love about him.  But Metchie is stronger and more explosive and physical, and he's also more aggressive too.  Which is also really big, and IMO that aggressiveness is why Metchie projects as a high level pro.

 

I think there is a strong chance that Metchie is the best WR in this class, and there is a ton of precedent over the last 15 years of the true WR1 from a class coming after the first round.  Rounds 2 and 3 are a sweet spot for getting WRs, and the draft value of getting Metchie in round 2 is easily > the value of Olave at 11.

[seantaylor=god]

20 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Maybe he won't be a megastar, but I personally don't think any WR in this class will be.

If this is the case, then don’t take a WR at 11. That all I’m saying. I’m fine with Olave in a trade down. A Brian Hartline type career (route running phenom and his coach at OSU) which would actually be really good and productive career for Olave. Personally, I’d rather chase  greatness at another position. 
 

I like Olave, he’s a good kid with a nice skill set,  I just think if we take him at 11 we would regret it with some of the game-changers that we could have taken (including other positions).

 

But this horse is dead so I’ll leave it alone. 

[UK Skins]

4 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Trade down and get him and get Kenneth Walker and Nakobe Dean.  That is our home run draft.

 

I was thinking about this last night. If we look purely at the players we had visits with, the choice of the three top RBs and then mainly a bunch of late rounders doesn't mesh at all with our current draft picks. Since I understand the RBs are top 2nd round (?) then we can't be trading down there, which only really leaves that #11 pick. It's a really confusing list.

[cakmoney61]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yeah it's not enough.  They'd be trading QB1 or maybe OT2 in that deal and they desperately need a QB for Ruhl to survive.  So unless they snag Baker Mayfield for a song, I think they're going to stay put and draft Pickett.

I agree about the compensation not being enough.  And considering that Carolina doesn't pick again until the 4th round, they should trade back if they can find a trade partner.  Other than Malik Willis (and I'm not sure about him either), using your lone pick in three rounds on one of these QBs could be a misuse of that resource.

 

They are a bad team that needs to accumulate draft picks to make their overall team better.  Trading pick #6 should be option one.  I would feel differently if they had a full complement of draft picks, but they don't. 

 

If they do use #6 on a QB who ends up playing awful or not ready to play, Carolina will be near the top of the draft to get one of the much better QB prospects in next year's draft.

Edited April 16, 2022 by cakmoney61

[KDawg]

Just now, Going Commando said:

 

Agreed.  See my post about Metchie as a similar argument.  But if you like instinct and skill and IQ, then Metchie is just as good, if not better.  Olave is faster, which is big.  He can absolutely fly and that is something I love about him.  But Metchie is stronger and more explosive and physical, and he's also more aggressive too.  Which is also really big, and IMO that aggressiveness is why Metchie projects as a high level pro.

 

I think there is a strong chance that Metchie is the best WR in this class, and there is a ton of precedent over the last 15 years of the true WR1 from a class coming after the first round.  Rounds 2 and 3 are a sweet spot for getting WRs, and the draft value of getting Metchie in round 2 is easily > the value of Olave at 11.

Olave seems to have a much higher football IQ than Metchie. The way he finds holes in zones is his best trait and unmatched in this class. Olave is better than Metchie out of the box.