2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[evmiii]

3 hours ago, method man said:

 

I don't think so. If I had to guess, he is probably QB3 after Pickett and Willis on most teams' boards

 

There seems to be a divergence on opinions from many “experts”, but I agree this is probably the most common.  Pickett is most likely the closest to plug and play, but I think his upside is probably the lowest of the three.  Willis is the best athlete in the group, but is probably the least accurate and would need the most time to be an effective QB in the pro’s (his athletic abilities would ease this transition).  I think Corral has the best combination of athletic ability, arm strength and accuracy.  I like Corral best, but I think all three have a chance in the right system to be successful.  Each would be an upgrade to our current staff.

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, method man said:

 

I don't think so. If I had to guess, he is probably QB3 after Pickett and Willis on most teams' boards

 

I don't necessarily think that's a foregone conclusion. I think Pickett and Willis had a chance at the Senior Bowl to put Corral in the 3rd spot behind them but I'm not so sure they actually did so. All of the Senior Bowl QBs were somewhat up and down in practices and the game itself was super ho-hum from a QB standpoint.

 

I don't think any of them really separated themselves. In the game Willis showed he could run, but we already knew that. Pickett showed he could throw accurate screens and check downs, but we already knew that as well.

Edited February 12, 2022 by mistertim

[VirginiaVibes]

6 hours ago, Zim489 said:

 

Better not be.

 

If he starts a single game next year for any reason other than injury to another QB then I will throw up. Heinecke is a decent back up but he can not start next season for any reason. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by VirginiaVibes

[Zim489]

8 hours ago, VirginiaVibes said:

 

If he starts a single game next year for any reason other than injury to another QB then I will throw up. Heinecke is a decent back up but he can not start next season for any reason. 

I personally think hes a terrible back up. You have to change the entire offense to cater to his physical limitations. I think hes best served as a guy you pick up off the street and tell him to just go play ball. Exactly like he did against TB in the playoffs. 

[Skinsinparadise]

@Zim489 posted this on the QB thread but I think its more on point here since this is where most of the QB debate has happened as for the draft.

 

I previously posted Kevin Cole's previous tweet on the topic, or it was someone else from PFF I don't recall, which showed based on their studies there is a strong correlation as to college to NFL success specifically to the variable of QBs who have escapibility in the pocket where they are good at avoiding sacks.

 

I get the last memory of Corral is him being crushed from the pocket by Baylor.  But by and large if you watch him enough, you could see he is elusive in the pocket.   As I mentioned before his pressure to sack conversation rate, graded by PFF,  is easily the best in this class and by a mile.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

:ols skyler.

[Skinsinparadise]

On 2/10/2022 at 5:59 PM, VirginiaVibes said:

 

The new rebrand is going to take some getting used to - new name, new uniforms, etc and what really would help is a young, magnetic personality that fans can really rally around. I don't think Sam Howell is that guy. Apparently he is very shy, soft spoken, didn't impress much in Senior Bowl interviews. For a rebrand you want a guy that fans will be passionate about, not meh on (and frankly fans are more forgiving and patient with rookie mistakes if they really like the rookie as a person) - someone who will stand on the sidelines and get people fired up. I haven't see much of that from Carson Strong either honestly. 

 

The guy who makes the most sense to me is Matt Corral. He already has three things in common with Rivera which would instantly bond them - he's a Latino guy from a military family raised in California just like Ron. That might not seem important but that is such an easy starting point for a coach and QB to start connecting and building trust. Corral's tough. He apparently has a really magnetic personality where his teammates not only love him but would run through a wall for him. I saw countless games where he was leading the Ole Miss chant or standing on the bench to get the fans fired up. 

 

Todd McShay recently compared him to Joe Theismann. He does run an RPO but has everything Ron said he wanted - mobility, quick twitch, strong arm and his work ethic is insane. He was holding QB meetings and training everyday at 5 am. 3 hours before their regular practices even started:

https://www.si.com/college/olemiss/football/5-a-m-meetings-matt-corral-ole-miss-quarterbacks-taking-work-ethic-to-the-next-level

 

I don't know I just think he is the perfect fit for this team right now. He would fit really well with Scott Turner's offense because he has accuracy at the intermediate level and is so elusive along with the arm talent to make some Mahomes like throws from different angles and honestly elite ability to manipulate his body. 

 

 

You won't get me to argue against Matt Corral.  He's more or less been my guy since Septembrer, I talked about him some the previous season, too.

 

I disagree with just one point here.  I've watched a lot of Carson Strong's games, watched interviews and read a bunch on him.  He actually is a fiery guy.  In fact his coach said at one point he had to learn how to tone it down during games because he was a bit too high strung.   Strong has a lot of personality IMO.

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I don't believe ANY variable defines QBs success.  But i do like some of the point below in part because its part of what I've been selling on Corral which is pocket presence including being elusive in the pocket.  I like Howell more than most but I don't think he sees pressure the way Corral does.    I like to bring up Howell in the context of Corral because in some ways they remind me of each other.  Both run RPO heavy offenses, both have strong arms, both have mobility -- both are tough.   But if I had to pick two reasons why I like Corral over Howell it would be:  A. pocket presence.  B.  I think he's the better runner -- sees the open field better, etc. 

 

Since Corral didn't go to the Senior Bowl, i am really interested to see him at the combine.  In particular I was to see what he runs.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Good example of it

 

 

[bowhunter]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You won't get me to argue against Matt Corral.  He's more or less been my guy since Septembrer, I talked about him some the previous season, too.

 

I disagree with just one point here.  I've watched a lot of Carson Strong's games, watched interviews and read a bunch on him.  He actually is a fiery guy.  In fact his coach said at one point he had to learn how to tone it down during games because he was a bit too high strung.   Strong has a lot of personality IMO.

 

 

 

So in order of preference, are you

1) Mayfield and #11 on a MLB (trade 2nd round)

2) Corral with #11 (no gimme that he's there though)

3) MLB and then Strong in 2nd round?

 

I think I see options 1 and 2 equally appealing, because they both lead to an energetic fresh face in the huddle. Option 3 may mean TH starting the season

[Zim489]

Anything other than one of the Wilson Watson Rodgers or First round pick will be a mistake. 

 

Jimmy G plus day 2 guy IMO proves to me that Ron and Co just dont understand the modern game and the position. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I personally think hes a terrible back up. You have to change the entire offense to cater to his physical limitations. I think hes best served as a guy you pick up off the street and tell him to just go play ball. Exactly like he did against TB in the playoffs. 

He went 7-8 last year as a starter…every team in the league would love to be able to do that with their backup QB. Hell, most fans love saying you want a backup QB who can come in for 2-3 games and keep the season from crashing. 

[moboy36]

49 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Mayfield and #11 on a MLB (trade 2nd round)

How about Mayfield for conditionally next year's second that could become a first, based on wins and games played. 

 

That way, we can keep our picks this year. 

 

I wonder if Cleveland would go for that. 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

So in order of preference, are you

1) Mayfield and #11 on a MLB (trade 2nd round)

2) Corral with #11 (no gimme that he's there though)

3) MLB and then Strong in 2nd round?

 

I think I see options 1 and 2 equally appealing, because they both lead to an energetic fresh face in the huddle. Option 3 may mean TH starting the season

 

1.  Wilson, Rodgers (obvously mega long shots but Mayfield isn't my top desire by a long shot if it was purely a wish list and not based on realism)

2.  Among the 2nd tier guys I like Mayfield the best.  It was once Carr but he's not going to be traded.  The more I digest Jimmy G the more I pause.

3.  Corral at 11 and I think he will be there unless something crazy happens for him in the combine

4.  Mariota in FA with Corral.   (I would be OK with Pickett, Howell, Willis)

5.  Mariotta with Strong or Ridder in the 2nd.  I go back and forth on that, I've been mostly on team Strong between those 2 but was shaken a little by him having supposedly a meh Senior Bowl week.  But I'll stick back with Strong over Ridder.

 

As for the QBs in this draft in different ways I have a soft spot for all 6. I don't love any of them but I do find things to like about all of them.   I spent so much time studying them that i am way behind looking at other positions per what I usually do by this point.  But I am going to catch up.

 

1.  Corral:  I noticed him before the previous draft because I studied the Ole Miss prospects a lot for the 2021 draft, Elijah Moore in particular was my guy in that draft.  I recall commenting then on Corral's arm and moxie back then. He was a fun watch but a bit too much a gunslinger.  So I followed him closely through this season.  He's been my QB 1 pretty much the whole time.  Strong arm-good mobility-good pocket presence-tough-good leader.  His accuracy is good -- not great IMO but IMO none of these guys have great accuracy.  Worry some about his size.  i think he can adjust from the RPO offense.  He's the best IMO among this group as to manipulating defenses with his eyes/body language.  Same thing I highlighted last year about Mac Jones.

 

2.  Willis:  I posted about him on off during the season.  His running IMO is special.  Arm strength through the roof.  I don't get why some say Trey Lance is such a better prospect -- when Willis might be even more mobile and have a stronger arm than Lance.  Both are raw with good intangibles.

 

3.  Howell:  Really consistent as far as his accuracy.  He has a strong arm, i think Corral's is a hair stronger but Howell throws better IMO off his back foot.  Showcased good mobility at the combine. Tough. Baller.    Worried about pocket presence, peripheral vision.   There is nothing he does that blows me away but there is a lot he does that I like.  I tend to favor QBs with more personality than Howell -- I prefer extroverts at that spot (more of a Joey T guy on that front than Rypien) but its not a deal breaker -- see Justin Herbert for example.

 

4.  Pickett:  I don't know what to make of his small hands, but I can't ignore his fumbling issues which might be related.  Remembering Daniel Jones in college that issue followed him to the pros.  In some ways he might be the most tailored QB in the class to this team for several reasons.  He played in a pro system, is more seasoned and more likely to hit the ground running.  I think his ability to make plays on the move with boots, etc marry really well with the heavy outside zone running scheme we run -- i can see a lot of play action boots.   I play up personality in QBs, that dude IMO so far is the one I like the best on that front.  Extroverted.  Charismatic.  Reputation of being a leader.  Doesn't surprise me at all he interviewed the best and by a good margin at the Senior Bowl.  

 

After those 4, a peg drop off to the next two IMO.

 

5.  Strong:  Throws a beauty deep ball.  Really good arm strength -- I know there was mixed reports on that at the Senior Bowl but I've seen enough to buy into his arm.  Nice touch.  Can make some wicked tight window throws.  I like his personality -- extroverted, emotional.  His injury history is a concern.  It's funny i see both here and among mock draft types as to people either thinking he has really poor pocket presence or really good pocket presence.  I think both camps are right and wrong.  IMO he sees pressure well from the A gap but really struggles with D gap pressure from the edges. 

 

6.  Ridder:  that was my guy last year as for who I wanted in the 2nd round when I thought he was coming out. I like his size and mobility.  He has long legs so when he finds daylight as a runner he can hit some homeruns.  His accuracy is hit and miss.  He really struggles IMO with quick outs and tight window throws.  He has high intangibles.  teammates like him.  His arm strength IMO is a bit underrrated.  He doesn't throw well off his back foot IMO but if he can step into his throws he puts zip on them.

 

 

[bowhunter]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

1.  Wilson, Rodgers (obvously mega long shots but Mayfield isn't my top desire by a long shot if it was purely a wish list and not based on realism)

2.  Among the 2nd tier guys I like Mayfield the best.  It was once Carr but he's not going to be traded.  The more I digest Jimmy G the more I pause.

3.  Corral at 11 and I think he will be there unless something crazy happens for him in the combine

4.  Mariota in FA with Corral.   (I would be OK with Pickett, Howell, Willis)

5.  Mariotta with Strong or Ridder in the 2nd.  I go back and forth on that, I've been mostly on team Strong between those 2 but was shaken a little by him having supposedly a meh Senior Bowl week.  But I'll stick back with Strong over Ridder.

 

I always enjoy your takes here. You've already convinced me that Corral is my guy in this draft, but the Mayfield option appeals to me simply because it allows us hopefully to keep #11 (or give Cle #11 and #111 for Baker and #13) which also allows us to keep picks in rounds 1 and 2.  I think that could be a great outcome IF the picks are spent wisely

14 minutes ago, moboy36 said:

How about Mayfield for conditionally next year's second that could become a first, based on wins and games played. 

 

That way, we can keep our picks this year. 

 

I wonder if Cleveland would go for that. 

I like that way of thinking, but would like to keep 2023 picks in case Baker doesn't pan out well. I'd rather give Cle #11 and 111 in exchange for Baker and #13

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I always enjoy your takes here. You've already convinced me that Corral is my guy in this draft, but the Mayfield option appeals to me simply because it allows us hopefully to keep #11 (or give Cle #11 and #111 for Baker and #13) which also allows us to keep picks in rounds 1 and 2.  I think that could be a great outcome IF the picks are spent wisely

I like that way of thinking, but would like to keep 2023 picks in case Baker doesn't pan out well. I'd rather give Cle #11 and 111 in exchange for Baker and #13

 

Don't know for sure we'd keep our first rounder for Mayfield.   But I'd definitely take Baker over Jimmy G, Trubisky, Mariota, etc.  

 

Mayfield wasn't hot this year but he played hurt.   This was PFF's take on ranking the QBs in the league before last season.  I included some players who might be on the trading block. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-all-32-starters-ahead-of-the-2021-nfl-season

4. RUSSELL WILSON, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS

Wilson started the season on fire as the front-runner for the MVP title over the first eight games of the year, as he was PFF's top-ranked quarterback in overall grade (93.3). The wheels soon fell off, though, with Wilson taking the most sacks in the NFL through the second half of the season.

He has been one of the most consistent quarterbacks in the league for a long time and appears primed to bounce back from last year, particularly after the offseason drama of him wanting to be traded. He wants his value to continue to rise, and that it will. Over the past five years, Wilson has dominated the NFL to the tune of the most big-time throws (214) while tying Rodgers and Brady for the best passing grade on 20-plus-yard throws (99.9).

 

10. BAKER MAYFIELD, CLEVELAND BROWNS

Give Coach of the Year Kevin Stefanski a ton of credit for how he helped set up his quarterback for success. The Browns protected Mayfield early in the season, but when Stefanski opened up the playbook, Baker excelled. He was the second-highest-graded quarterback in the league from Week 7 through the playoffs. He also ranked in the top five from a clean pocket, on standard dropbacks and on early downs for the entire season — all of which are important and stable metrics.

Considering the offensive weapons Mayfield has around him and his offensive line's league-leading 84.4 pass-blocking grade last year, expect him to pick up where he left off for the 2021 season.

 

22. JIMMY GAROPPOLO, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS

Injuries have become the story for Garoppolo, as he has started less than 50% of the 49ers' games since the beginning of the 2018 season. He did manage to lead the Niners to a Super Bowl appearance the year he came back from his torn ACL. Things are different now, as he has Trey Lance waiting in the wings in case he is either injured or shows a stretch of inconsistency.

Garoppolo has shown he’s capable of executing Shanahan’s offense at a high level, but he tends to make a few questionable decisions or throws per game. Lance did a phenomenal job of protecting the football in college. It will be interesting to see how this plays out — expect Garoppolo to have a good year even under such pressure.

23. CARSON WENTZ, INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

Wentz led the NFL last season in turnover-worthy plays (24) and didn’t even play after week 14. Can Frank Reich work his magic and get Wentz back to his 2017 form and build his confidence back up? Wentz was on an MVP-caliber tear in 2017 when he earned an overall PFF grade of 84.9 — just behind Drew Brees and 20 grading points higher than his 2020 grade. He was playing lights-out in key situations, with a 91.9 grade on third and fourth downs and a passer rating of 125.0 with 16 touchdowns in those situations. Coaching plays a big role in key situations, so the Colts have some reason to think Wentz will play better under Frank Reich. A tough schedule and erratic big plays in key situations will make for an interesting year.

[RWJ]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't know for sure we'd keep our first rounder for Mayfield.   But I'd definitely take Baker over Jimmy G, Trubisky, Mariota, etc.  

 

Mayfield wasn't hot this year but he played hurt.   This was PFF's take on ranking the QBs in the league before last season.  I included some players who might be on the trading block. key situations will make for an interesting year.

I'd take Russell and Baker from that list.

[Redskins 2021]

We would need Jimmy g to go to cleveland in order to get Baker. If cleveland gets k. Cousins minn will take Baker.

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[RWJ]

23 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

We would need Jimmy g to go to cleveland in order to get Baker. If cleveland gets k. Cousins minn will take Baker.

 

I don't think Cousins is going anywhere.  He's going to be reunited with Kevin O Connel after the SB.  They are eager to work together again.

[Darth Tater]

6 minutes ago, RWJ said:

31 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 

I don't think Cousins is going anywhere.  He's going to be reunited with Kevin

If Kevin works out for the Vikes, that would strangely make Gruden the biggest coaching fail that actually has the beginnings of a coaching tree.

McVay, Jay's guy from 2014 to 2016.

O'Connel, guy who sort of replaced McVay.

Though I guess you could argue that its more of a snake:Gruden->McVay->O'Connel

I wonder how many failed head coaches actually have a tree?

[mhd24]

3 hours ago, RWJ said:

I don't think Cousins is going anywhere.  He's going to be reunited with Kevin O Connel after the SB.  They are eager to work together again.

 

Yeah, but Kirk is an UFA after this year.  He has a 45 Million cap hit!  Either Minny extends him, or they do the franchise dance that we did.  I could see Minny drafting a QB this year to groom.  Kirk has always been all about the money.  Frankly, if I were Minny, I'd see if SF would be willing to trade Lance for Kirk (Kyle's crush).    

[RWJ]

34 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

Yeah, but Kirk is an UFA after this year.  He has a 45 Million cap hit!  Either Minny extends him, or they do the franchise dance that we did.  I could see Minny drafting a QB this year to groom.  Kirk has always been all about the money.  Frankly, if I were Minny, I'd see if SF would be willing to trade Lance for Kirk (Kyle's crush).    

I think they give him an extension and drop currently what he supposed to get this year and then backload it.  They will probably wait until 2023 to draft his future replacement.  Just a guess.   

[philibusters]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

2.  Willis:  I posted about him on off during the season.  His running IMO is special.  Arm strength through the roof.  I don't get why some say Trey Lance is such a better prospect -- when Willis might be even more mobile and have a stronger arm than Lance.  Both are raw with good intangibles.

 

 

 

 

 

I feel like Trey Lance was deemed such a good prospect because the hype of the season where he threw like 25 TD's and no Interceptions or whatever the number was.  I feel like that generated the hype that he was a good decision maker.

[kingdaddy]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

1.  Wilson, Rodgers (obvously mega long shots but Mayfield isn't my top desire by a long shot if it was purely a wish list and not based on realism)

2.  Among the 2nd tier guys I like Mayfield the best.  It was once Carr but he's not going to be traded.  The more I digest Jimmy G the more I pause.

3.  Corral at 11 and I think he will be there unless something crazy happens for him in the combine

4.  Mariota in FA with Corral.   (I would be OK with Pickett, Howell, Willis)

5.  Mariotta with Strong or Ridder in the 2nd.  I go back and forth on that, I've been mostly on team Strong between those 2 but was shaken a little by him having supposedly a meh Senior Bowl week.  But I'll stick back with Strong over Ridder.

 

As for the QBs in this draft in different ways I have a soft spot for all 6. I don't love any of them but I do find things to like about all of them.   I spent so much time studying them that i am way behind looking at other positions per what I usually do by this point.  But I am going to catch up.

 

1.  Corral:  I noticed him before the previous draft because I studied the Ole Miss prospects a lot for the 2021 draft, Elijah Moore in particular was my guy in that draft.  I recall commenting then on Corral's arm and moxie back then. He was a fun watch but a bit too much a gunslinger.  So I followed him closely through this season.  He's been my QB 1 pretty much the whole time.  Strong arm-good mobility-good pocket presence-tough-good leader.  His accuracy is good -- not great IMO but IMO none of these guys have great accuracy.  Worry some about his size.  i think he can adjust from the RPO offense.  He's the best IMO among this group as to manipulating defenses with his eyes/body language.  Same thing I highlighted last year about Mac Jones.

 

2.  Willis:  I posted about him on off during the season.  His running IMO is special.  Arm strength through the roof.  I don't get why some say Trey Lance is such a better prospect -- when Willis might be even more mobile and have a stronger arm than Lance.  Both are raw with good intangibles.

 

3.  Howell:  Really consistent as far as his accuracy.  He has a strong arm, i think Corral's is a hair stronger but Howell throws better IMO off his back foot.  Showcased good mobility at the combine. Tough. Baller.    Worried about pocket presence, peripheral vision.   There is nothing he does that blows me away but there is a lot he does that I like.  I tend to favor QBs with more personality than Howell -- I prefer extroverts at that spot (more of a Joey T guy on that front than Rypien) but its not a deal breaker -- see Justin Herbert for example.

 

4.  Pickett:  I don't know what to make of his small hands, but I can't ignore his fumbling issues which might be related.  Remembering Daniel Jones in college that issue followed him to the pros.  In some ways he might be the most tailored QB in the class to this team for several reasons.  He played in a pro system, is more seasoned and more likely to hit the ground running.  I think his ability to make plays on the move with boots, etc marry really well with the heavy outside zone running scheme we run -- i can see a lot of play action boots.   I play up personality in QBs, that dude IMO so far is the one I like the best on that front.  Extroverted.  Charismatic.  Reputation of being a leader.  Doesn't surprise me at all he interviewed the best and by a good margin at the Senior Bowl.  

 

After those 4, a peg drop off to the next two IMO.

 

5.  Strong:  Throws a beauty deep ball.  Really good arm strength -- I know there was mixed reports on that at the Senior Bowl but I've seen enough to buy into his arm.  Nice touch.  Can make some wicked tight window throws.  I like his personality -- extroverted, emotional.  His injury history is a concern.  It's funny i see both here and among mock draft types as to people either thinking he has really poor pocket presence or really good pocket presence.  I think both camps are right and wrong.  IMO he sees pressure well from the A gap but really struggles with D gap pressure from the edges. 

 

6.  Ridder:  that was my guy last year as for who I wanted in the 2nd round when I thought he was coming out. I like his size and mobility.  He has long legs so when he finds daylight as a runner he can hit some homeruns.  His accuracy is hit and miss.  He really struggles IMO with quick outs and tight window throws.  He has high intangibles.  teammates like him.  His arm strength IMO is a bit underrrated.  He doesn't throw well off his back foot IMO but if he can step into his throws he puts zip on them.

 

 

Trubisky, Corral I can live with. We take a swing with a reclamation project and with a rookie. If you say Corral is the rookie to get then I'll take your word for it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Trubisky, Corral I can live with. We take a swing with a reclamation project and with a rookie. If you say Corral is the rookie to get then I'll take your word for it. 

 

It doesn't have to be Corral, I am ok with others too, he's just my fav for now unless something goes amiss at the combine

38 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

I feel like Trey Lance was deemed such a good prospect because the hype of the season where he threw like 25 TD's and no Interceptions or whatever the number was.  I feel like that generated the hype that he was a good decision maker.

 

Lance was a better decision maker but also raw like Willis.  Willis IMO the better runner with the stronger arm -- though Lance talented on those fronts, too.