2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Redskins 2021]

8 hours ago, Burgold said:

Same can be said for Heinike.

 

I still think Heinike is a bottom third starting QB and upper tier back up. We definitely want an upgrade, but I also think he proved he belongs in the league.

I agree, he is a top end back up. We should keep him.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Redskins 2021 said:

I agree, he is a top end back up. We should keep him.

If we go vet and rookie set up I'd keep Heinicke.

 

If the rookie isn't ready to start week 1 the vet starts, Heinicke is backup.

 

But that's the extent of how I want to see Heinicke.

 

He should be QB3 and an in-game sub option but not starter unless absolutely necessary.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

If we go vet and rookie set up I'd keep Heinicke.

 

If the rookie isn't ready to start week 1 the vet starts, Heinicke is backup.

 

But that's the extent of how I want to see Heinicke.

 

He should be QB3 and an in-game sub option but not starter unless absolutely necessary.

This is how I see it as well, though maybe with one (3 part, lol) caveat - if Heinicke clearly outplays the vet, and if the staff isn’t certain that teams have “figured Heinicke out”, and if the staff doesn’t feel like Heinicke limits the offense too much to give them a chance, then he should be the starter (albeit with a short leash).  Don’t see it happening though.

 

I don’t really follow CFB, so I’m curious - Is Corall that far off from a guy like Zach Wilson that he shouldn’t be seen as a day 1 starter?  And are Ridder/Strong that far away from being day 1 starters themselves?  And can a vet center like Roullier take some early pressure off a rook by calling protections?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

15 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

They proved that when they avoided QB the previous two drafts.

 

His first year he inherited Dan's guy, the dude that Dan would tell (according to a Keim story) anyone who would listen that he was the best player in that draft.  So I am not condemning Rivera for not instantly discarding Dan's dude right from the start.

 

He did still end up discarding him at a record pace.  If I recall it was the quickest a first round QB has been cut in over a decade or something like that

[Skinsinparadise]

Not sure I agree with item 4, i get the Joe Burrow survived a porous O line but he still didn't win.

 

 

[Riggo#44]

Dak Prescott's Scouting report prior to the 2016 draft:

Quote

Strengths:
Flashes pocket passsing
Flashes accuracy
Flashes field vision
Flashes anticipation
Throws a very catchable ball
Capable arm
Can make all the throws
Good mobility
Can pick up yards on the ground
Has some pocket presence
Great teammate
Experienced against good competition
Gritty player
Strong leadership skills

Weaknesses:
Inconsistent accuracy
Inconsistent field vision
Needs to get faster with his eyes
Needs to learn working under center
Needs development for a pro-style offense
College-offense inflated stats
College offense ran lot of plays he won't run in the NFL

 

Sounds a lot like what I've read about Desmond Ridder. What's the likelihood of Ridder making that type of jump? He would come into a decent O-Line and Running Game. Assuming we re-sign McKissic, along with Thomas and Bates, we have a QB's best friends lined up. I want to like Ridder, I wonder if it's prudent to grab Hamilton at 11 and make the necessary move later to get Ridder.

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not sure I agree with item 4, i get the Joe Burrow survived a porous O line but he still didn't win.

 

 

And the more he gets hit, the more he gets hurt--he's already had a major knee injury and dodged a bullet with the ankle in the Super Bowl.

[Going Commando]

Pathetic offensive line play (and WR/TE blocking) was a big issue for both teams.  I don't think I can remember seeing a good team's run game get so thoroughly destroyed as LA's did last night, and Cincy's OL fell apart in the fourth quarter too.  We saw that coming though.

 

Offensive line play was the decisive factor in the previous SB too.  Mahomes's protections collapsed while Tampa's OL dominated the LoS.

 

Football doesn't fundamentally change.  It will always be a game of blocking and tackling and the teams that are more dominant at the LoS on both sides will almost always win.

[CobraCommander]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Pathetic offensive line play (and WR/TE blocking) was a big issue for both teams.  I don't think I can remember seeing a good team's run game get so thoroughly destroyed as LA's did last night, and Cincy's OL fell apart in the fourth quarter too.  We saw that coming though.

 

Offensive line play was the decisive factor in the previous SB too.  Mahomes's protections collapsed while Tampa's OL dominated the LoS.

 

Football doesn't fundamentally change.  It will always be a game of blocking and tackling and the teams that are more dominant at the LoS on both sides will almost always win.

...as long as they have a good QB.

 

For all the people in the back.

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

SIP, as the other guy in here that seems to favor Corral, do you also feel like he’s a terrible interview? Listening to him speak at a lot of those elite QB camps was almost painful. He did not come off as smart. 

[Warhead36]

You don't need the Hogs up front but you can't completely suck either. You can get by with like league average as long as your QB is elite and skill players are above average.

[Berggy9598]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not sure I agree with item 4, i get the Joe Burrow survived a porous O line but he still didn't win.

 

 

As a natural reaction to the fact that it’s easier to play QB and much to our dismay as we’ve found out this season it has become consequently easier for offenses to scheme around the pass rush. This makes the Bengals ineptness in that area all the more impressive, but they were in the Super Bowl and they have the first three items on that list. 

[Going Commando]

10 hours ago, Berggy9598 said:

As a natural reaction to the fact that it’s easier to play QB and much to our dismay as we’ve found out this season it has become consequently easier for offenses to scheme around the pass rush. This makes the Bengals ineptness in that area all the more impressive, but they were in the Super Bowl and they have the first three items on that list. 

 

I looked at their AV totals and the Bengals have a better offensive line than they got credit for.  Four out of their five starters had at least 7 AV this season.  That's better than we can claim, which makes sense given our injury rate in the position group.  The only weak link for Cincy was that RG spot where Adeniji and Carman rotated.

 

Not saying you're claiming this, but there is a budding narrative that Joe Burrow turned that team around on his own that is completely untrue.  And I think misunderstanding the way their team came together will lead to unrealistic expectations about what making a QB change can accomplish.  There were eight other players aside from Burrow on Cincy's offense this year that had 7+ AV seasons--that is a stacked offense where only two positions aren't manned by well above average starters (TE and RG).  And on defense they had six players with 7+ AV seasons plus got average to slightly above average seasons from Bates, Apple, Bell, and Owuzie with 6, 6, 6, and 5 AV respectively.  That's a defense where almost their entire front was legitimately good and their starting secondary was at least average.  They had fewer weak links than almost any other team in the league this year. 

 

The Rams actually had a shakier roster due to how top heavy it's construction was.  They only had 11 guys with 7+ AV seasons as opposed to 15 like Cincy.  They had 10 additional guys get at least 5 AV and presumably the extreme amount of weight that their best three players could carry was enough to make up the difference.  But that weak depth is also probably why the Rams' postseason journey was so rocky and they did not dominate and needed a lot of heroics from Stafford/Kupp/Donald to win their championship.  This SB was one of the few times where, arguably, the more talented team did not win.  But I think that was mainly because the Bengals are so young and inexperienced, Zac Taylor was outcoached, and their OL just flat out underachieved in the second half whereas the experience of McVay/Stafford/Kupp/Donald became a decisive factor.

[Warhead36]

Zac Taylor is indeed a bum. I think they dump him after 2022 and get someone like Sean Payton to come out of retirement to get them over the top.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Brugler updated his 100 Big Board:

 

QB's:

31 - Pickett

32 - Willis

35 - Corral

37 - Howell

41 - Ridder

100 - Strong

 

Looks about right.  5 QB's right around each other, and then Strong far away from them.

 

Depending how the board looks with the first 10 picks (if no QB's are taken), I'd be tempted to trade back.  Hypothetically, if the Saints/Steelers wanted to move up for a QB, and we knew they wanted someone we didn't.  I'd do it.  Gives us options to either go BPA at their pick, then move up above Detroit at #31 or higher, or just go straight QB at their pick and have extra stuff to improve the rest of the roster.

[VirginiaVibes]

23 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

SIP, as the other guy in here that seems to favor Corral, do you also feel like he’s a terrible interview? Listening to him speak at a lot of those elite QB camps was almost painful. He did not come off as smart. 

 

I think he's a fine interview and everyone says he comes off super likable and charismatic when talking to him

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

7 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Brugler updated his 100 Big Board:

 

QB's:

31 - Pickett

32 - Willis

35 - Corral

37 - Howell

41 - Ridder

100 - Strong

 

Looks about right.  5 QB's right around each other, and then Strong far away from them.

 

Depending how the board looks with the first 10 picks (if no QB's are taken), I'd be tempted to trade back.  Hypothetically, if the Saints/Steelers wanted to move up for a QB, and we knew they wanted someone we didn't.  I'd do it.  Gives us options to either go BPA at their pick, then move up above Detroit at #31 or higher, or just go straight QB at their pick and have extra stuff to improve the rest of the roster.

If there is a QB we love at 11 we take him. If not, then trade down unless one of the stud LBs/CBs/WRs is sitting there.

[Going Commando]

I think Linderbaum is legitimately the fastest and most explosive center I've ever seen.  Watching him get to his landmarks and get his hips around for screens is kind of shocking at first.  Looks like he's running as fast and fluidly as the pass catcher.  Fun to watch him climb up and go hunting for linebackers too as he has just a different level of movement from what you'd expect in an OL.  He's a Jason Kelce clone and he can be that kind of weapon for an offense as a puller and screener.

 

He could probably play guard but he's definitely a way better fit at center.  Right on the line of being a center-only prospect, which will most likely depress his draft value.  But I would take a Jason Kelce at 11 overall in a draft class without hesitation.  We could pick him and have Roullier play RG and experience little dropoff if Scherff walks.  Also maintain our depth.  Go out and sign Maxx Williams and draft another RB and just pound it no matter who we send back there to play QB.  Heinicke, Trubisky, Ridder, you could win with any of them in that formula.

 

I read that he's the first Rimington winner in program history, which kind of blows my mind given the amount of NFL talent Iowa lines have produced.  But I guess most of their best guys have ended up at tackle.

[bowhunter]

21 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Brugler updated his 100 Big Board:

 

QB's:

31 - Pickett

32 - Willis

35 - Corral

37 - Howell

41 - Ridder

100 - Strong

 

Looks about right.  5 QB's right around each other, and then Strong far away from them.

 

Depending how the board looks with the first 10 picks (if no QB's are taken), I'd be tempted to trade back.  Hypothetically, if the Saints/Steelers wanted to move up for a QB, and we knew they wanted someone we didn't.  I'd do it. 

I would agree with this logic most other drafts. Maximize your assets. But...this isn't the year to ****foot around the fact that we NEED a QB. If our guy is there at 11, make the move. @Skinsinparadisehas already got me thinking Corral should be the guy and moving back to the Steelers spot also opens up the possibility that QB needy teams can move back in front of us. We can't afford to come out of this draft empty handed or with some sort  consolation prize. Bruglers ranking is irrelevant to what the FO thinks

[Skinsinparadise]

Treylon Burks.   Wow.  I don't get the he's a 2nd rounder thing that some mock drafters believe.  He's both physical and fast.  They like to use him in the backfield which fits what this offense likes to do.  Not a top 10 guy but IMO a first round talent.  

 

The Good

 

Can block

Is physical with the ball in his hands

He looks fast to me especially for a dude with that kind of build

The move him around Z, slot, etc.  Mostly slot. Big slot.

YAC -- big time so.

Strong hands

 

The Bad

 

Don't see the deep threat just yet -- a chunk of his catches seem to be in the flat even though his YPC is a whopping 17 yards

Route runner?  A lot of slants, comebacks, screens.  Doesn't seem to run a full array of routes.

Because of his long legs, he has some build up speed, in other words for the first 2-3 yards he's not ultra quick but then he builds steam 

Against good corners he can get open but doesn't always seperate with much cushion so the QBs have to thread the needle at times.

 

I looked him up with PFF.  He has their best yards per route numbers, which they tout as their definiing number.  His YAC numbers are over 9 yards per, that's crazy. 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Treylon Burks.   Wow.  I don't get the he's a 2nd rounder thing that some mock drafters believe.  He's both physical and fast.  They like to use him in the backfield which fits what this offense likes to do.  Not a top 10 guy but IMO a first round talent.  

 

He's like AJ Brown with DK Metcalf's speed.  Not as sure-handed as Brown but pretty good.  Check out the A&M game if you want to see what kind of deep threat he can present.

 

This top 50 WR group is insane.  Feels like we've been desensitized to the position because there have been so many good WR crops in a row, but this is a special one.  IMO:

- Burks is the best package of size and speed and there is real creativity with the ball in his hands.

- London is the best go up and get it dude/best at sealing the coverage off of the ball, basically a TE playing the position.

- Wilson is the best at adjusting to ball in the air and dialing in on it through the traffic/contact.

 

I see compelling reasons to put each of them as WR1 and think all three of them are bonafide #1s with Pro-Bowl potential.  I love all three of them and think each could be BPA at 11 (or maybe after a small trade down).

[Skinsinparadise]

I respect @Going Commando a lot. So I hate making posts like this but I feel so strongly about the topic that I just feel compelled to give a counter view.  I am hardcore on this point and it has nothing to do with any poster here or any other point of view.  It's as an NFL fan and Commanders fan, i am sick of being in the "have not" club when it comes to QB.  And with every year I get more sold not less sold on the value of a QB.    I am tried of talking about other teams QBs. 

 

I'd go even a step further and say part of the soup of the bleeding fan base -- rock bottom attendance, TV rating decling, etc -- some of that I'd guess has to do with this team always being somewhat in the have not club with QBs.  I don't think its a coincidence that the height of Redskins mania so to speak under Dan was 2012.

 

Joe Burrow came to that team with the worst record in the NFL and within two years took them to the SB.  Playing for an organization that most consider a dumpster fire, with by a mile the smallest scouting staff in the NFL, with arguably the cheapest owner in the NFL, who is known for putting nepotism and proft over winning.

 

 I do agree that getting a dude like Joe Burrow is really really hard.  But when you get a dude like that he changes a franchise right away and in a big way.  Colts had Peyton Manning -- they are good.  They lose him, they are the worst team in the NFL.  They draft Andrew Luck and they are right back in the playoffs.   You don't have to think that deeply IMO to see the trends.

 

And AV scores aren't used that much when I listen to sports talk whether its ex-scouts or whomever talking about how they grade.  AV basically is the anti PFF -- PFF tries to and granted they are far from perfect with it to factor context.  AV grades up by their own admission winning teams/units.  So a winning team will just about always have a high grade as for AV players.

 

So to PFF for example Daron Payne was a good player in 2019 season and 2020.  As for AV scores, Payne wasn't good in 2019 but heck the defense was ranked highly in 2020 and Sweat and Young played well so Payne earns a good 2020 AV score. 

 

My favorite example is Josh Norman.  He had an insane AV score in Carolina, he comes here and he's just a guy.  His PFF scores dropped too but not as dramatically.  As Norman would say its different when you got a monster pass rush in front of you, it helps the whole secondary.

 

I recall years back when SF had a killer defense, some of those guys hit FA especially from their secondary and they weren't much at other teams including here.  Why?  The reason considered and said then was they didn't benefit from the domino effect of having a good team/unit.  Heck even players own up this dynamic all the time. 

 

AV is interesting, and I use it in some context but it has IMO serious limitations.  Regardless of the AV scores, you can't talk me into the Bengals having a better O line than us.  We all watched the playoffs.  We can say PFF is wrong and AV scores were better on this -- but that argument that doesn't fly IMO next to our eye test. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings

20. CINCINNATI BENGALS (UP 2)

LT Jonah Williams | 77.9
LG Quinton Spain | 72.3
C Trey Hopkins | 51.4
RG Hakeem Adeniji | 48.4
RT Riley Reiff | 67.3

The Bengals' offensive line is vastly improved from a season ago, but the last few weeks of the regular season showed how fragile that is — and how quickly it can become a problem if injuries arise. Jonah Williams has been impressive at left tackle, earning a 77.9 PFF grade, even if he has a tendency to lose badly when he does lose (he has allowed eight sacks).

Quinton Spain has played some of his best football, and there were other positive contributors, but not one member of the line played all 17 games, and the play of the backups has been problematic in some cases. Of the 11 players the team has used for 50 or more snaps, seven of them carry sub-58.0 PFF grades.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

38 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

He's like AJ Brown with DK Metcalf's speed.  Not as sure-handed as Brown but pretty good.  Check out the A&M game if you want to see what kind of deep threat he can present.

 

 

I get that Burks and Metcalf have high top end speed and size, but they do not run similarly.  I wouldn't compare them.  Each moves in ways the other doesn't.  Metcalf's plant and go acceleration is a tier above.  While Burks is noticeably more fluid.  Burks is absolutely a quality WR prospect, I don't want anyone thinking I'm down on him for saying he's not Metcalf.

[Skinsinparadise]

47 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

He's like AJ Brown with DK Metcalf's speed.  Not as sure-handed as Brown but pretty good.  Check out the A&M game if you want to see what kind of deep threat he can present.

 

 

 

I did a quicker than usual wrap up for me on him, did just Alabama and Auborn.  I'll watch more.  Really impressed.  Big dude with a big catch radius and strong hands -- catch radius is better from what I saw going vertical than horizontal.  Monster YAC guy.  He had the best YAC numbers among the top receivers as it looks it when you watch him.

 

Some were talking about Deebo and Aiyuk and SF having these monster-physical YAC guys who can also run block.  Burks fits that to a tee.  

 

I'll keep watching WRs now.  Getting sick of rewatching these QBs over and over again.  I got to move to other spots more. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

15 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

If there is a QB we love at 11 we take him. If not, then trade down unless one of the stud LBs/CBs/WRs is sitting there.

 

1 hour ago, bowhunter said:

I would agree with this logic most other drafts. Maximize your assets. But...this isn't the year to ****foot around the fact that we NEED a QB. If our guy is there at 11, make the move. @Skinsinparadisehas already got me thinking Corral should be the guy and moving back to the Steelers spot also opens up the possibility that QB needy teams can move back in front of us. We can't afford to come out of this draft empty handed or with some sort  consolation prize. Bruglers ranking is irrelevant to what the FO thinks

 

Of course.  It doesn't really need to be said.  If the team thinks a QB is good value at 11, we take them.  But if they grade several of them as a bit more interchangeable and not quite worth 11 (even as a QB desperate team), then adding assets becomes attractive.

[VirginiaVibes]

On 2/15/2022 at 8:10 AM, Warhead36 said:

Zac Taylor is indeed a bum. I think they dump him after 2022 and get someone like Sean Payton to come out of retirement to get them over the top.

 

They just gave him a contract extension through 2026 lol