2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I guess will see

 

 

 

Hes been injured all year, hasn't he? I know he didn't miss time though. Still a concern. 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Hes been injured all year, hasn't he? I know he didn't miss time though. Still a concern. 

 

He had an ankle injury about 2/3rd into the season.  Nothing serious enough to keep him out.   It didn't limit him as a passer but he stopped running for 3-4 games until yesterday.

 

He lost some of his receivers during the season.  He was their team.  He was good this year.  Arguably he was even better last year when he had weapons.  The problem last year was he would throw too much into coverage, too many YOLO throws, but he improved on that tremendously this season.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Now having Bates, Ferguson is probably redundant, he was one of my favorites last year but haven't paid attention to him this year. 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Now having Bates, Ferguson is probably redundant, he was one of my favorites last year but haven't paid attention to him this year. 

 

 

 

Tight end, you say?

 

I give you THE Jalen Wydermyer. Athletic, can catch, can block. Slot. In-line. Fullback. Motion. Specimen.

 

https://youtu.be/BOieqaIXH7U

 

 

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Tight end, you say?

 

I give you THE Jalen Wydermyer. Athletic, can catch, can block. Slot. In-line. Fullback. Motion. Specimen.

 

https://youtu.be/BOieqaIXH7U

 

 

Hes gonna be far too rich for our blood I think.

[KDawg]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Hes gonna be far too rich for our blood I think.

Bite your tongue. I’ll let you keep your Dean/Lloyd dream if you let me keep my Wydermyer dream.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Bite your tongue. I’ll let you keep your Dean/Lloyd dream if you let me keep my Wydermyer dream.

Deal. 

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Tight end, you say?

 

I give you THE Jalen Wydermyer. Athletic, can catch, can block. Slot. In-line. Fullback. Motion. Specimen.

 

https://youtu.be/BOieqaIXH7U

 

 

Yeah. Some of us have been all in on Wydermyer for 2 years. We'll see where he ends up. Probably late first early second if I had to guess. And that is more based on the value of the position. He is damn good. But he isnt Pitts. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by clskinsfan

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

Yeah. Some of us have been all in on Wydermyer for 2 years. We'll see where he ends up. Probably late first early second if I had to guess. And that is more based on the value of the position. He is damn good. But he isnt Pitts. 

It's me. I'm some of us.

[Riggo#44]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Hate the idea of an undersized QB that gets injured often. 

Yeah, we're witnessing that right now...

[ClaytoAli]

Loss

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Tight end, you say?

 

I give you THE Jalen Wydermyer. Athletic, can catch, can block. Slot. In-line. Fullback. Motion. Specimen.

 

https://youtu.be/BOieqaIXH7U

 

 

yep but first round TE doesn’t seem to be in the cards.

[bowhunter]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

yep but first round TE doesn’t seem to be in the cards.

Reckon we could just name Logan Thomas as our new starting QB and create some room for Wyderheimer.

Two birds, one stone

Edited January 2, 2022 by bowhunter

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

yep but first round TE doesn’t seem to be in the cards.

You also bite your tongue!

[Koolblue13]

41 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You also bite your tongue!

This might be the first time there's a first round graded TE and I want a different offensive position.   

[Berggy9598]

Curl and Kyle Hamilton’s games complement each other…just saying. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Berggy9598

[skinny21]

It’s a shame we pretty much have to use our 1st on a qb, because a stud FS or LB would be great for this team.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

8 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

It’s a shame we pretty much have to use our 1st on a qb, because a stud FS or LB would be great for this team.

 

Nakobe Dean would solve so much of the D's problems. 

[skinny21]

1 minute ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Nakobe Dean would solve so much of the D's problems. 

I don’t really follow CFB, but that’s what it sounds like to me.  I mean, I like Holcomb, but man, if he could be the Robin to a Batman of a backer…

 

But alas, as I said don’t see how we free up that 1st round pick.  Maybe we get crazy lucky and all of the qbs drop and we’re able to trade up from the 2nd instead.  One can dream anyway…

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I don’t really follow CFB, but that’s what it sounds like to me.  I mean, I like Holcomb, but man, if he could be the Robin to a Batman of a backer…

 

But alas, as I said don’t see how we free up that 1st round pick.  Maybe we get crazy lucky and all of the qbs drop and we’re able to trade up from the 2nd instead.  One can dream anyway…

Would it be that crazy to use other picks and come out of this draft with future offensive and defensive QB even it meant giving up a host of other 2022 picks?

[method man]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

Would it be that crazy to use other picks and come out of this draft with future offensive and defensive QB even it meant giving up a host of other 2022 picks?

Although both guys would be perfect fits for this team, they aren’t getting Dean or Lloyd

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, method man said:

Although both guys would be perfect fits for this team, they aren’t getting Dean or Lloyd

Never say never

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

8 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I don’t really follow CFB, but that’s what it sounds like to me.  I mean, I like Holcomb, but man, if he could be the Robin to a Batman of a backer…

 

But alas, as I said don’t see how we free up that 1st round pick.  Maybe we get crazy lucky and all of the qbs drop and we’re able to trade up from the 2nd instead.  One can dream anyway…

 

Holcomb is too inconsistent.  Some quality plus play, but then some late reactions, or poor ability to navigate the blockers to the edge, etc.

 

Sideline to sideline isn't just speed, it's ability to bend effectively under or over blockers in space.

 

I think Davis's physical ability deserves to be on the field somehow but in a reduced role with extremely simple and aggressive assignments.  He's too tentative normally.  So building that onfield decisiveness is key.  But that also means an even reduced workload.

[The Consigliere]

On 12/31/2021 at 5:58 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK, so if I follow your point its pass on a QB in 2022, ride with Heinicke, and wait for 2023?

 

Speaking for myself, I wanted to trade up for Justin Fields.  I was one of the bigger fans of Mac Jones last draft, too.

 

As for 2019, i didn't like the crop aside from Kyler Murray.  I didn't like Haskins or Jones.

 

As for 2020, I don't think Rivera could just come in and dump Haskins, Dan Snyder's Qb, right from the jump.  Sounds like based on what some beat guys have heard and Ron himself hinted at it, they might have dumped Haskins right away though if Burrow fell to #2.  That was their guy.

 

I know you are a QB or bust guy.  I am pretty close to the same.  I've posted on the subject a zillion times over the years and offered my takes on a zillion Qbs or so it feels like over the years.

 

I have a hard time though to approach a draft totally theoritically.  Just because some media draft geeks don't like a draft class doesn't turn me off to it.  Some by the way from the media draft geeks dissent from that point.  Some think the number of good prospects in this draft is similar, its missing thought that slam dunk Trevor Lawrence guy or two.  And some disagree with that.  But again its all opinion not gospel.   But for what its worth, not every media draft geek sees it the same way. 

 

I am not bringing this up to give you a hard time.  Just using it to make a point.  I've been right about some prospects and wrong.  So has everyone here.  It's all cool.  For me the effort in giving takes is what's cool.   I recall you arguing to trade for Josh Rosen.  Heck I recall you bringing up Darnold, too.  OK they are from the ballyhooed 2018 class.  I recall some of your arguments for Rosen, you can get a top 10 QB talent on the cheap.   Why didn't I agree?  I watched enough Rosen to think he's a bust.  Same reason why I argued against Darnold, too.  I didn't give a rats behind that he was from the lauded 2018 class from the draft media.  

 

The 2017 class was supposed to be crap, no elite talents supposedly.  Be "smart" and pass on that yawn 2017 class, it's garbage, say no to D. Watson or Mahomes for much greener pastures for the much more exciting 2018 draft (or so it was billed at the time) for the grouping of Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield.   The dudes that make it out of the 2018 class as the best QBs by a mile were ironically the raw, less touted, low floor guys, Allen and L. Jackson.   The 2019 class lived down to its reputation.  But not every class ends up a replica about the draft media's take of it. Mel Kiper was so sure that Jimmy Clausen was bust proof that he said he'd quit his job if he was wrong.    They swing and miss.  We all do. 

 

Guys like Kiper, McShay aren't scouts.  Some scouts who have spoken about this at times goof on some of the media draft talking heads.  They disagree with them all the time.  Media draft guys loved Haskins.  It came out that many scouts not so much.  I am entertained by mock drafts as much as anyone but these dudes get a lot wrong especially at QB.  

 

Like everyone here, sometimes I am right.  Sometimes I am wrong.  But I don't worry about how a whole class is generalized by the draft media -- its about what do i think about the individual players.   If you watch all these QBs like you did for Strong and say yawn to them all.  OK, cool.  I can ride with it and appreciate that take.  That's you giving your own shot at what you think of these QBs.   But I am not hung up on generalizations about classes from the draft media.    As some scouts have said in any draft you can find really good players, even the more thin drafts. 

 

If you got a headliner or two, it makes the the whole class much sexier.  But if we got headliners here, you typically got two of them at best and they go #1 and #2.  So lets say we pass on this class for Stroud and Bryce Young.   Lets go nuts and say maybe a third emerges as slam dunk like J. Williams.  He's also going really early. We are banking on a collapse season and being at one of those top 3 spots?  Based on what do you think they are heading to 4-13?  I don't think Heinicke is the answer but he's not that bad.

 

The question that would be more driven by reality would be who in that next tier would be intriguing in 2023.  Would Spencer Rattler for example be much more exciting than Matt Corral?   I think that's the more realistic scenario to compare.  That's the pond we'd likely be fishing in versus the Bryce Young pond.  The idea that we will be picking in the top few picks in 2023, i think is likely fantasy.  And when you get these QBs who are billed as slam dunk special, teams don't typically trade out of their spot, they take them.  

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/2017-nfl-draft-trubisky-leads-qb-class-lacking-elite-talent-0ap3000000799332

 

2017 NFL Draft: Trubisky leads QB class lacking elite talent

 

 

 

Feel free to rip me or drag my old moronic takes all you want. I’m fine w/it. It’s a message board to argue one’s pov, if you’re wrong you should own it, nobody is losing employment over a random take on a message board. McQueen can —— on my Reagor love too (had him as the #3 over my #4 Jefferson). I had the ‘18 QB class backwards, I took seriously velocity testing w/Watson etc. My takes are a bit different from what you think, for instance I wanted to consider trading for Darnold for a day 3 pick not the insane overpay Carolina gave (and w/Fields still available!?!?). I had Rosen #2 in ‘18. I still have to evaluate these QBs for dynasty but overall there I’ve skated by thanks to hitting on Mahomes,Kyler  And a bunch of dual threat not as good in real life QB’s. Im much better w/RBs and WR’s then QB’s though and even there I had plenty of misses in the ‘20 class at WR (liked Reagor, Mims and Edwards too much, thankfully I put the bulk of my stock in Lamb).

 

As for the ‘22 class, my main issue is the prospects are uniformallyweaker than the ‘20, ‘21 and ‘23 classes. Just like five years ago we’ve settled on prioritizing QB in the wrong offseason. Maybe we get lucky but I’m skeptical. 

[The Consigliere]

On 1/1/2022 at 9:53 AM, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I'm not letting hindsight revise Taylor into being a much higher regarded prospect than he actually was, because I remember how much of an island I was on with him.  I certainly was one of the only people around here highly valuing him, I had him as a top 15 player in his class, far higher than I saw from any other sources.  And he was in no way shape or form as highly regarded a prospect as all of those dudes who went in the top ten picks in their classes.  He was an almost universally undervalued prospect who went in the second round, which is my point with Walker.  Walker is a top 15 player in this class who is, once again, being universally undervalued and being projected as a second round pick.  Just like they did with Taylor, the draftnik community is overthinking it with Walker.

 

I can kind of talk myself into Breece Hall being graded higher than Walker by some even though it is pretty clear to me that Walker is better than him.  But they are close enough that style could be a tie breaker for zone heavy teams.  But I think any team who grades Spiller or Charbonnet ahead of Walker is crazy, and making mistakes like that is how you get passed in your rebuild by the teams getting the steals you pass over.  Walker was a Heisman Trophy candidate for most of the year, and he was far and away the best player on a team that massively over achieved and almost won the Big 10 despite not being particularly good.  He is a household name in CFB and one of the true stars of the season.  Those other guys were so much less spectacular and less productive playing for disappointing teams that ended up underachieving given their preseason expectations and recruiting quality.  They didn't play as well nor have the individual impact Walker did, and I think it's because they're not as good as him.  They're not special, and he is.

 

 

I don’t really care about the consensus here, I care what the people at rotoviz and rotounderworld  think and the analytics community in dynasty generally. I compare the takes, watch a bit and make my views based on consensus w/my own hunches weighing in.

 

precombine consensus had Swift and Taylor dualing for #1. Combine pushed Taylor into #1. Swift, Akers and Dobbins in a 3 way battle for #2 status w/CEH elevated by landing spot.

 

Im not concerned w/ where these guys go in the actual draft as NFL teams are now drafting these guys later based on basically moneyball RB valuations and the rb age cliff. Personally I think the smarter play is to take these guys 30-32 so you can use the 5th year option and avoid the consistently horrible 2nd contact disasters w/the position but if you can get really youn rbs like javonte, or Akers it can still make sense because they will likely perfor, longer on a second contract. Najee’s age is why I viewed that steeler decision as moronic. Dude is 2 years older than Javonte, he’lol have to break the age cliff curse to be worth that selection.

 

As for this years class. I care not a whit about what Michigan State did or did not do, I care about their athleticism, age, production, 3 down skill set. That’s it. Hall, Spiller and

charbonnet trump Walker in terms of production, age and 3 down skill set for the most part. Athletic testing is the last data point.

On 1/1/2022 at 2:06 PM, ExoDus84 said:

 

We've been tanking since 1992.

I wish, we,ve been habitually taking short cuts and quick fixes and then taking our medicine in bad draft classes (‘94, ‘02, ‘19) or targeting the wrong guy in good and bad classes (‘12 and ‘05).