2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

10 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

For depth or starting?  Are you negative on Holcomb or Davis?

 

I'm not super high on Holcomb as a starter. But I think he's capable and he's gotten better every year so I think next year he'll be fine. 

 

It's moreso for the three backer sets and flexibility situations. We need a true MIKE thumper type. I think Jamin will be fine but another guy that has some speed that attacks downhill is desperately needed. A player LIKE Bostic but... better.

 

That also creates a better depth situation.

[Skinsinparadise]

On 9/9/2021 at 3:22 PM, mhd24 said:

Obviously our biggest needs would be:

1). QB

2). LT (Leno seems at best average, but maybe he shows something this year)

3). RB (major hole behind Gibson)

4). LB (We have zero depth behind the starters)

5). WR (depends on if Dyami balls out and Samuel shows he was worth the contract)

6). TE (depends on if Bates & Reyes show something)

7). FS (Depends on if Curl can transition)

 

Judging by Rivera's interviews, he doesn't flat out say anything but he also heavly hints at what he thinks.  My best guess:

 

1.  QB either veteran or the draft.

2. O line -- I can feel he doesn't think its all there yet and he wants it to be as formidable as the D line.

3.  LB

 

And everything else behind those spots by a decent margin.  But will see obviously how the season transpires along with BPA mindset could change this.

 

Not sure what to believe with certainty but judging by what some of the beat guys have said.  They did like Herbert and liked him over Tua (some said they heard they didn't think that highly of Tua) in that draft albeit clearly they didn't think Herbert would be this good.   They supposedly liked Fields and some said (and Rivera hinted) Jones but not to the extent they wanted to give up the store.  If that's so and Fields and Jones ends up looking good, I wonder if they internally in that building have some confidence that they can pick a young QB in the draft and will give it a shot next year?  or choose to go for a veteran?

 

Edit:  just heard a podcast where they doubled down on hearing that they weren't high on Tua and had concerns about Herbert. 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

QB is our obvious biggest need and it's not close. We're definitely balling out to get the one we want. Great spot to drop a rookie into also.

 

Then LT, LBer, CB.

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I have a feeling the plan may be to hopefully move Cosmi to LT next season after he hones his technique. He has the size and extreme athleticism to potentially be an excellent LT but his technique is a bit too raw right now for it IMO.

 

Agree with most of the rest of the list, though with some of the positions it feels more like the need for depth as opposed to starters (though with LB and WR that obviously depends on how Davis and Brown develop).

 

I don't like shuffling OLs around after they find a home at one position early in their careers. To me, having to do that is the result if emergency and poor planning/building, and what you get is the lesser version of that player. 

 

If they were planning on moving Cosmi to LT eventually, why not start him there as a rookie?  They had no incumbent LT of quality and they did have one at RT, whom they had to cut for Cosmi to start there.

 

I think Cosmi at RT is the long term plan, and I also think they love Leno and are definitely bringing him back long term if he plays reasonably well this year.  He's a bought-in veteran who loves Rivera and is a willing evangelist of Rivera's culture and regime and you want guys like that helping you out in the locker room.

 

The only thing I could see moving Cosmi is if an absolutely elite OT prospect falls into their laps and the only way to reshuffle the line that works is to move Cosmi for him since Cosmi can play guard too.  But even then, why not have the new OT play LT if he's so good?

[PartyPosse]

14 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

We really need to find a qb watching dak light it up is annoying to watch....hell of a 3rd round pick

Proof you don’t need to waste a day 1 pick on a QB if you create the right environment for someone. I think that’s what Ron is doing. Creating a defense that is the strength and also putting together the pieces on offense to help the transition. It’s like he’s putting together something that would allow a young QB to grow and make mistakes without it demoralizing the team.

[Going Commando]

14 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

He had such a unique intro experience to the NFL.  The best run game in the NFL and then some cookie cutter vanilla passing concepts that piggy backed off that.  Then they added more on the next season, etc etc.  Such a slow and steady process, and it obviously worked.  I doubt Dak would be who he is without that, but credit to just right player in the right situation at the right time.

 

There are probably quite a few other QB's who could've developed like that if given the chance.  I feel like both Flacco and Lamar Jackson would've busted out if they did not go to the Ravens.

 

Franchise QBs are made rather than found.  It's the same development arc that Roethlisberger and Rivers and Ryan and Eli and Wilson and Brady went through, and that Baker Mayfield is going through right now.  Even Peyton had the benefit of elite running games led by two HoF runningbacks in the first half of his career.  Very very few prospects just come in guns blazing and play immediate winning football with a burdensome and expansive passing game on their shoulders.  The only ones I can think of in recent memory are Watson and Mahomes, and they got picked shockingly late and had teams of pre-built quality trade up for them.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I don't like shuffling OLs around after they find a home at one position early in their careers. To me, having to do that is the result if emergency and poor planning/building, and what you get is the lesser version of that player. 

 

If they were planning on moving Cosmi to LT eventually, why not start him there as a rookie?  They had no incumbent LT of quality and they did have one at RT, whom they had to cut for Cosmi to start there.

 

I think Cosmi at RT is the long term plan, and I also think they love Leno and are definitely bringing him back long term if he plays reasonably well this year.  He's a bought-in veteran who loves Rivera and is a willing evangelist of Rivera's culture and regime and you want guys like that helping you out in the locker room.

 

The only thing I could see moving Cosmi is if an absolutely elite OT prospect falls into their laps and the only way to reshuffle the line that works is to move Cosmi for him since Cosmi can play guard too.  But even then, why not have the new OT play LT if he's so good?

 

I'd guess it's because Cosmi's technique is still pretty raw so maybe they want him to start at RT which is generally a bit easier to handle, especially when it comes to needing to have very refined skill when dealing with what's usually the opposing team's best pass rusher.

 

LT is a premium position that's pretty tough to fill and find top tier talent for, so when you have a guy who's has the size, intangibles and insane athleticism of Cosmi, IMO it would be a shame to not at least give him a shot at LT, even if it's not immediately.

 

If next season his technique is still not up to par and they don't think he'd be able to hack it at LT then just keep him at RT. Still not a bad value for a 2nd rounder, but I can't imagine them not wanting to at least give it a try. If you have a chance to fill that position you should take it.

 

Personally I see Leno as more of a stopgap.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

I'd guess it's because Cosmi's technique is still pretty raw so maybe they want him to start at RT which is generally a bit easier to handle, especially when it comes to needing to have very refined skill when dealing with what's usually the opposing team's best pass rusher.

 

LT is a premium position that's pretty tough to fill and find top tier talent for, so when you have a guy who's has the size, intangibles and insane athleticism of Cosmi, IMO it would be a shame to not at least give him a shot at LT, even if it's not immediately.

 

If next season his technique is still not up to par and they don't think he'd be able to hack it at LT then just keep him at RT. Still not a bad value for a 2nd rounder, but I can't imagine them not wanting to at least give it a try. If you have a chance to fill that position you should take it.

 

Personally I see Leno as more of a stopgap.

 

Leno being a better option than Cosmi this year kind of demonstrates that LT isn't significantly more demanding than RT in our offense.  When your TE runs routes 86% of your pass plays like ours does, there isn't a big difference between the two positions.

 

It's also not like RT is easier or cheaper to find on the market than LT, so if you let Leno walk and move Cosmi to LT next season, then you've got the same hole, just on the other side.

 

The right side of our line is going to be a mauling strength.  IMO we should keep a strength a strength by extending Scherff and leaving Cosmi where he is to master his position.  If Leno bombs or walks, then we should find a LT to play LT.  The only thing that might make me change my mind is if we find a RT prospect who is even better than Cosmi and even more of a mauler, because then I'm actually building upon a strength.

 

Maybe I'd move him to RG too if we lose Scherff but gain a dominant RT prospect, but again, that is a reshuffling born out of poor building/planning and is not ideal.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Leno being a better option than Cosmi this year kind of demonstrates that LT isn't significantly more demanding than RT in our offense.  When your TE runs routes 86% of your pass plays like ours does, there isn't a big difference between the two positions.

 

It's also not like RT is easier or cheaper to find on the market than LT, so if you let Leno walk and move Cosmi to LT next season, then you've got the same hole, just on the other side.

 

The right side of our line is going to be a mauling strength.  IMO we should keep a strength a strength by extending Scherff and leaving Cosmi where he is to master his position.  If Leno bombs or walks, then we should find a LT to play LT.  The only thing that might make me change my mind is if we find a RT prospect who is even better than Cosmi and even more of a mauler, because then I'm actually building upon a strength.

 

Maybe I'd move him to RG too if we lose Scherff but gain a dominant RT prospect, but again, that is a reshuffling born out of poor building/planning and is not ideal.

 

I dunno, are you sure that top RTs are as easy to find and get as top LTs? At the very least there's a big money disparity there, whether deserved or not.

 

On almost all teams the LT is the superior player, superior athlete and superior technician, which is why teams are generally willing to pay a king's ransom for a great one but RTs don't get paid nearly as much on average.

 

Cosmi has that elite size and athleticism that's so rare to find and impossible to "teach", so I'd think that if you can find someone with those traits and who you think has the ability to learn to be a top technician as well, it would be a good idea to at least see if you can put it to use at LT.

 

Leno is a decent LT but IMO if you think Cosmi could possibly be a great one I can't imagine not giving it a shot.

 

If it works out you'd potentially be set for 10 years at one of the hardest positions to fill and on 5 years of a rookie contract too.

Edited September 10, 2021 by mistertim

[JoggingGod]

4 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Proof you don’t need to waste a day 1 pick on a QB if you create the right environment for someone

There hasn’t been one QB better than below average drafted after round 1 since 2016. Dak is an incredibly rare exception.

[PartyPosse]

12 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

There hasn’t been one QB better than below average drafted after round 1 since 2016. Dak is an incredibly rare exception.

And i'd say the hit percentage on QBs in the first since then is 50% at best which is a pretty horrendous ratio considering the importance of the position, the resources spent on their development as well as the time spent in evaluation. When you have a team built to win now, you simply can't afford to take that kind of a chance. I mean you can, it's the kind of decision that ruins scouting and coaches careers.

[IrepDC]

If all of these potential QBs come out next year, in this "weak" draft class, there will be a potential starter on the board when we pick, no matter where we pick, in the 1st round. There isn't a clear top QB this year either, so we could have the guy who (turns out to be) one of the better choices in the end.

 

Similar to how Mac Jones fell into New England's lap this year, but with a "weaker" draft class, that QB could slide to the end of the round. I'd give it a 90% chance we go QB in round 1. This is all dependent on who eventually declares for the draft, of course. I'd be happy if someone like McCall, who is playing Kansas right now, slid to us.

[skinny21]

On 9/9/2021 at 2:22 PM, mhd24 said:

Obviously our biggest needs would be:

1). QB

2). LT (Leno seems at best average, but maybe he shows something this year)

3). RB (major hole behind Gibson)

4). LB (We have zero depth behind the starters)

5). WR (depends on if Dyami balls out and Samuel shows he was worth the contract)

6). TE (depends on if Bates & Reyes show something)

7). FS (Depends on if Curl can transition)

It will be interesting to see how these change as the year plays out.  I’d put corner and guard at 5/6 instead.  Can’t have too many (quality) corners, and with Scherff gone and Wes/Erick in their final years next year, we need some future starters there.  Receiver/TE on the other hand, we’ve got some talent in the pipeline, but to each their own.  To your point, Humphries/Sims are on one year deals, so…🤷‍♂️

[JoggingGod]

19 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

And i'd say the hit percentage on QBs in the first since then is 50% at best which is a pretty horrendous ratio considering the importance of the position, the resources spent on their development as well as the time spent in evaluation. When you have a team built to win now, you simply can't afford to take that kind of a chance. I mean you can, it's the kind of decision that ruins scouting and coaches careers.

The hit percentage on QBs after round 1 is probably less than 3% if even. You need to take a chance if you ever want to win a SB.

[Skinsinparadise]

I am sort of in between the two arguments on QB.  I believe you need a good structure around a rookie QB, so to some extent I agree a franchise QB made.  But its just part of it IMO.  And IMO the smaller part of it, yet important.  The bigger part of it IMO is how special is that QB not just in terms of talent but also committment.    Arians has been around good and bad QBs.  He goes in his book about some QBs have an extraordinary dedication to their craft and some don't.  You can't make them want it.  Either they want it badly or they don't.  A coach can't make the player want it.   Regardless of the structure around the player.

 

Cooley has talked about this plenty as a player he's been around plenty of others in the locker room -- he's said as much as he believes in evaluating talent, based on what he's seen in the locker room, his number one thing if he ran personnel was does the dude love football?  Not like it.  Not sort of like it.  But love it.   Talent is important but committment is just as key.  Peyton and Brady for example didn't just have good supporting casts but they were maniacs in terms of their committment to being great and its not a dime a dozen quality.   They both talk about their love of the game and desire to be great.  It's not that common to find QBs with that level of committment and so when players are described in that way, I try to pay attention. 

 

And when players are described as not being that commited -- not putting in the extra time, showing up late to meetings on and on.  Then I heed those red flags.   Take a dude like Josh Rosen.  You hear stories about it.  People in Arizona leaking that Carson Palmer would work late back in the day but Rosen wouldn't.  And a number of other stories.  If those stories are true, then IMO buyer beware.  Then you got some dudes with some committment but nothing crazy.  but the QBs who are described as obsessed with excellence, I'll put my money on them everything being equal.

 

Just from my own observations as for college ball compared to the pros.  The two things I find hard to fix and consistent for the most part are:  accuracy and decision making.  When I rewatched Darnold for example and Rosen's college games in recent years I got turned off by both based on their decision making.  And it doesn't shock me it followed them to the pros.

 

Jim Nagy who was once a scout, talks about committment.  He talked up about Herbert and Mac Jones before it was cool so to speak by commenting on what type of commitment they made in practices and behind the scenes which he could see first hand.  Shanny who has been around a lot of greats, talks about it too.  Ditto Gibbs.  I was listening to a Charger reporter yesterday talk about what type of dude Herbert is, his intelligence, committment, etc.  After listening to that, it doesn't shock me he's exceeded expectations.  

 

So in short, I want a QB who is talented but also billed as uber competitive and uber commtted.  And they aren't so easy to find.  

Edited September 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[The Rook]

@SkinsinparadiseWho is own your "watch" list for today's games?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

Edited September 11, 2021 by The Rook

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, The Rook said:

Who is own your "watch" list for today's games?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

 

Wilson, Olave, Ruckert, Z. Harrison, Devon Williams -- Ohio State-Oregon

 

I'll watch Alabama's cupcake game just out of habit and my son is a fan of theirs.  They are clearly loaded.  Neal, Harris, Metchie, Billingsley, J. Williams, Battle, Robinson, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

Noah Sewell. Linebacker for Oregon and Penei Sewells little brother has looked really good today against OSU. Incredible instincts and speed in the hole. I dont know his athletic scores. But the guy is a nasty backer. 

[The Rook]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Wilson, Olave, Ruckert, Z. Harrison, Devon Williams -- Ohio State-Oregon

 

I'll watch Alabama's cupcake game just out of habit and my son is a fan of theirs.  They are clearly loaded.  Neal, Harris, Metchie, Billingsley, J. Williams, Battle, Robinson, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My God, it is almost unfair to put Ruckett on a LB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Skinsinparadise]

I am too intrigued with the Ohio State game to switch to Pitt.  But interesting about Pickett.  He was a sleeper last year leading to the draft but he decided to come back. 

 

 

 

CJ Verdell killing it, I guess another dude to watch for the draft. 

 

 

[PartyPosse]

Jesus, I forgot all about Verdell.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, PartyPosse said:

Jesus, I forgot all about Verdell.

So did Ohio St it seems.

[Going Commando]

Man these Oregon linemen and receivers have just been dominating the line of scrimmage.  Impressive performance from them.

 

Ohio State's skill talent is awesome though.  It's kept them in the game even though they are losing the battle up front.  So many weapons for Stroud to utilize.

[PartyPosse]

Apparently, everyone on the Ohio defense seems to think all the Oregon TEs have cooties.