Brandon Scherff makes AP First Team All-Pro

[Riggo#44]

Fully agree, the previous poster mentioned tackle as unsettled. While Cosimi is far from a sure thing, he's promising at least 

[Burgold]

4 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

Fully agree, the previous poster mentioned tackle as unsettled. While Cosimi is far from a sure thing, he's promising at least 

I'd argue he might be a shade more than promising as Moses was let go right after rookie camp. That may just be me reading into things, but the timing seems to suggest they were really excited about what they saw.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Borgold

[mastdark_inc]

I would give Brandon a 3 year 54 mil deal and give him a competitive bonus.  I hate losing good players and I don't feel we are in position to do so.  He has 3 good peak years in him I believe and unlike alot of people I feel the position is very valuable when you have to go against the likes of the Aaron Donalds of the world.  Ideally I would rather use a draft pick to enhance a position not replace a position that we could have kept.

 

Rivera screwed this up by putting the franchise tag on him in the beginning.  They should have allowed him to hit free agency at worst when the cap this year was low due to lost of revenue due to covid. 

[Going Commando]

I would like for our powerful and fearless local media to figure out what the real reason is for why Scherff wouldn't sign a long term deal.  And while they are at it, I'd also like to know the real reason why Moses was cut.  I don't care if it is embarrassing to Scherff or Moses, those were two of the biggest stories that happened to the team this off-season, and our media has done next to nothing to actually investigate them.

Edited July 21, 2021 by stevemcqueen1

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I would like for our powerful and fearless local media to figure out what the real reason is for why Scherff wouldn't sign a long term deal.  And while they are at it, I'd also like to know the real reason why Moses was cut.  I don't care if it is embarrassing to Scherff or Moses, those were two of the biggest stories that happened to the team this off-season, and our media has done next to nothing to actually investigate them.

The Moses situation is indeed a mystery. My guess is that Rivera likes what he saw from Cosmi and/or some of our other young guys and told Moses he could go seek a trade. When noone bit, he did him a solid and cut him early so he could have time to find a job. Moses doesn't strike me as a selfish team cancer type considering how often he plays through pain and even switched positions to help last year.

 

I think with Scherff its that he just wants to break the bank as a FA. I know we offered him a deal that makes him the highest paid but who knows how it was structured and what the years were and what not. Maybe he wants like a 5+ year contract with a lot more guarantees.

 

But its all speculation of course.

[Going Commando]

54 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The Moses situation is indeed a mystery. My guess is that Rivera likes what he saw from Cosmi and/or some of our other young guys and told Moses he could go seek a trade. When noone bit, he did him a solid and cut him early so he could have time to find a job. Moses doesn't strike me as a selfish team cancer type considering how often he plays through pain and even switched positions to help last year.

 

I think with Scherff its that he just wants to break the bank as a FA. I know we offered him a deal that makes him the highest paid but who knows how it was structured and what the years were and what not. Maybe he wants like a 5+ year contract with a lot more guarantees.

 

But its all speculation of course.

 

He liked Cosmi enough to cut Moses then signed Leno?  That doesn't add up.  Teams don't cut good starting OTs on reasonable deals when they already have tons of cap space heading into seasons where they are trying to compete without something off the field being the cause.  Either Moses or Ron did something counterproductive.  I want to know if Moses did something bad and anti team or if Ron did something petty and dumb. 

 

And thinking Scherff has ever been about the money basically goes against everything we've known about the guy.  He is one of the least flashy and diva players on the team.  There is something else going on there too.  There is a reason these Midwestern dudes don't really like it here.

 

To me it feels like Ron is trying to consolidate his control by pushing all of the prominent old regime guys off the roster.  Our local media should want to know this too, because it paints clearer and more predictive picture if his leadership and decision making style, and maybe gives us a picture of how the Allen, McLaurin and Payne negotiations might go.

[lovemaskins]

Board getting spun with conspiracy theories.  Training camp can’t get here soon enough.

[@DCGoldPants]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He liked Cosmi enough to cut Moses then signed Leno?  That doesn't add up.  Teams don't cut good starting OTs on reasonable deals when they already have tons of cap space heading into seasons where they are trying to compete without something off the field being the cause.  Either Moses or Ron did something counterproductive.  I want to know if Moses did something bad and anti team or if Ron did something petty and dumb. 

 

And thinking Scherff has ever been about the money basically goes against everything we've known about the guy.  He is one of the least flashy and diva players on the team.  There is something else going on there too.  There is a reason these Midwestern dudes don't really like it here.

 

To me it feels like Ron is trying to consolidate his control by pushing all of the prominent old regime guys off the roster.  Our local media should want to know this too, because it paints clearer and more predictive picture if his leadership and decision making style, and maybe gives us a picture of how the Allen, McLaurin and Payne negotiations might go.

 

I think Ron already has his control. It was weird to me to release him when they did because who knows what team would need a starting RT after a camp injury? Thought they'd hold on to him a big longer. We all liked Moses. He was always hurt, but managed to stay on the field. Yeah, he had issues with penalties sometimes and I remember a handful of big moments when you needed him to make his block, where he was beat. But that wasn't a "CUT HIM" thing.

 

I know he was boys with Trent who we now realize is kind of a ****ty person from the suspensions to not showing to his doctor's appointment and lying about that, to his breeding dogs that killed a neighbors dog and saying "Dogs going to be Dogs" or whatever. I didn't get the sense Moses was that kind of asshole.

 

To be honest, it's over. He's gone. Hopefully Cosmi is ready to be a starter at RT this year and then move to LT after a year in the league.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He liked Cosmi enough to cut Moses then signed Leno?  That doesn't add up.  Teams don't cut good starting OTs on reasonable deals when they already have tons of cap space heading into seasons where they are trying to compete without something off the field being the cause.  Either Moses or Ron did something counterproductive.  I want to know if Moses did something bad and anti team or if Ron did something petty and dumb. 

 

And thinking Scherff has ever been about the money basically goes against everything we've known about the guy.  He is one of the least flashy and diva players on the team.  There is something else going on there too.  There is a reason these Midwestern dudes don't really like it here.

 

To me it feels like Ron is trying to consolidate his control by pushing all of the prominent old regime guys off the roster.  Our local media should want to know this too, because it paints clearer and more predictive picture if his leadership and decision making style, and maybe gives us a picture of how the Allen, McLaurin and Payne negotiations might go.

 

Much of this feels like a stretch to me.

 

Moses was a pretty solid OT but it's not like he was someone we couldn't replace...he was a JAG for the most part. Maybe Ron and company decided to go in a different direction. I wouldn't automatically assume that a guy with no known character problems or off-field issues suddenly developed them. And if Ron wanted to be petty he easily could have kept Moses around until the very end to give him less time to find a new job.

 

Scherff's personality may not be flashy or diva, but that doesn't change the fact that football is a business and he has to make the business decision that's best for him in the long run. He has an agent who I'm sure is telling him the same stuff (doesn't hurt that he gets a cut too, of course). I don't see any reason for it to be more complicated than Scherff wanting either more guaranteed money or a longer contract than they were offering. That or he and his agent want to wait until after this season to see how much the 2022 cap increase will be.

 

From what we've read WFT offered to make Scherff the highest paid Guard in the NFL and the deal was rejected. What the reasons were we just don't know.

 

I really don't see any specific reason to believe that Ron is making some sort of big headed power play to consolidate control. Have we seen any indication of anything like that with him? He's always been pretty open and direct about how he does things and what he wants.

Edited July 21, 2021 by mistertim

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He liked Cosmi enough to cut Moses then signed Leno?  That doesn't add up.  Teams don't cut good starting OTs on reasonable deals when they already have tons of cap space heading into seasons where they are trying to compete without something off the field being the cause.  Either Moses or Ron did something counterproductive.  I want to know if Moses did something bad and anti team or if Ron did something petty and dumb. 

 

And thinking Scherff has ever been about the money basically goes against everything we've known about the guy.  He is one of the least flashy and diva players on the team.  There is something else going on there too.  There is a reason these Midwestern dudes don't really like it here.

 

To me it feels like Ron is trying to consolidate his control by pushing all of the prominent old regime guys off the roster.  Our local media should want to know this too, because it paints clearer and more predictive picture if his leadership and decision making style, and maybe gives us a picture of how the Allen, McLaurin and Payne negotiations might go.

I believe Leno is a LT, not RT, and was brought in to provide depth/competition on that side.

 

Of course Scherff is about the money, as they all should be. You gotta get what you can get while you can get it. Its not about being a diva. Scherff will be 30 and this is his last big contract, he wants to break the bank.

[86 Snyder]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He liked Cosmi enough to cut Moses then signed Leno?  That doesn't add up.  Teams don't cut good starting OTs on reasonable deals when they already have tons of cap space heading into seasons where they are trying to compete without something off the field being the cause.  Either Moses or Ron did something counterproductive.  I want to know if Moses did something bad and anti team or if Ron did something petty and dumb. 

 

And thinking Scherff has ever been about the money basically goes against everything we've known about the guy.  He is one of the least flashy and diva players on the team.  There is something else going on there too.  There is a reason these Midwestern dudes don't really like it here.

 

To me it feels like Ron is trying to consolidate his control by pushing all of the prominent old regime guys off the roster.  Our local media should want to know this too, because it paints clearer and more predictive picture if his leadership and decision making style, and maybe gives us a picture of how the Allen, McLaurin and Payne negotiations might go.

 

[redskinss]

52 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Scherff will be 30 and this is his last big contract, he wants to break the bank

And from a players perspective it's smart to get a couple tags before your first big payday because it's far less likely you'll get those Two huge one year deals after your first big contract.

[joeken24]

On 7/18/2021 at 10:51 AM, mistertim said:

 

IMO putting a guy with the kind of freakish combination of size, length and athleticism that Cosmi has at Guard would be a waste. He may need some technique clean up but his ability is off the charts. I'm really hoping he ends up our long term answer at LT.

His athleticism is ideal for a pulling guard. But I do think he'll be a tackle. But much like Scherff who was drafted as a left tackle, we'll see where he fits.

[mistertim]

36 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

His athleticism is ideal for a pulling guard. But I do think he'll be a tackle. But much like Scherff who was drafted as a left tackle, we'll see where he fits.

 

I kinda disagree that Scherff was drafted as a Left Tackle. I don't think most people believed he'd be a LT in the NFL. Pretty much all analysts agreed that his place as an upper echelon guy in the league would be at Guard. IIRC they did let him try at Tackle at first to see what happened, but the reports weren't very good and they quickly made the decision to move him inside.

 

IMO Cosmi is a much more natural Tackle with his combination of size, length, and insane athleticism.

[Going Commando]

On 7/23/2021 at 2:55 PM, mistertim said:

 

I kinda disagree that Scherff was drafted as a Left Tackle. I don't think most people believed he'd be a LT in the NFL. Pretty much all analysts agreed that his place as an upper echelon guy in the league would be at Guard. IIRC they did let him try at Tackle at first to see what happened, but the reports weren't very good and they quickly made the decision to move him inside.

 

IMO Cosmi is a much more natural Tackle with his combination of size, length, and insane athleticism.

 

Scherff won the Outland as a LT and was projected as the top tackle in the 2015 class.  He was never going to play LT here because of Trent, but I do think they drafted him thinking he'd play RT.  But they kicked him inside almost immediately because Moses was better at RT than him in minicamps/training camp and they'd always known they had the option to move Scherff to guard.

 

I think Scherff got no leash and no real chance to prove he could play RT because him at RG and Moses at RT was how we got our best five OLs on the field.  I think Scherff could have eventually settled in at RT and been fine, but I don't think Moses had any ability to play RG given how tall and upright of a player he is.  He would have struggled to get any movement on DTs, especially in the gap heavy scheme Gruden ran.  So why run that OL configuration when he's a good RT and Scherff is a great RG?

 

If Scherff had been drafted to a team with no quality incumbent OTs, I bet he would have stayed at OT in the NFL.  And I don't think we knew we had two quality incumbent OTs when we drafted Scherff.  Moses was kind of like finding money in your pockets after washing your pants that year.  On draft day 2015, I don't think we knew how much better he'd gotten in year two after basically showing nothing as a rookie.

[Going Commando]

On 7/23/2021 at 2:55 PM, mistertim said:

IMO Cosmi is a much more natural Tackle with his combination of size, length, and insane athleticism.

 

IMO, he plays like a guard.  Texas' blocking scheme was reductive in 2020, but it basically put Cosmi in a position where his vertical setting was undeveloped and almost un-utilized.  I felt that there were games where he's vertical setting maybe five times.  In the NFL that's how you set up almost every passing down as an OT.  If he doesn't have this technique down heading into the season, then he's just not going to play OT unless an injury forces him into the line up.

 

I'm skeptical that his pass pro technique will be at a starting NFL OT standard heading into the season.  It's not out of the question, but it would mean he's got tools in his box that he didn't really show last year.

 

I don't expect him to win a starting job heading into the season.  But he's going to play this year.  17 game season, COVID issues, a lack of dominant incumbent players at LG and the OT spots, etc.  I think he's got some interchangeability at guard and tackle and that he'll get on the field at both spots this season.

[Silvernon]

Scherff was projected as a RT or G. Basically common knowledge at the time that he wasn't a left tackle. 

[joeken24]

On 7/23/2021 at 2:55 PM, mistertim said:

 

I kinda disagree that Scherff was drafted as a Left Tackle. I don't think most people believed he'd be a LT in the NFL. Pretty much all analysts agreed that his place as an upper echelon guy in the league would be at Guard. IIRC they did let him try at Tackle at first to see what happened, but the reports weren't very good and they quickly made the decision to move him inside.

 

IMO Cosmi is a much more natural Tackle with his combination of size, length, and insane athleticism.

(7) 2015 NFL Draft Rd 1 Pk 5 | Washington Redskins Select OT Brandon Scherff - YouTube

 

[mistertim]

22 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

(7) 2015 NFL Draft Rd 1 Pk 5 | Washington Redskins Select OT Brandon Scherff - YouTube

 

 

I realize that Scherff played Tackle in college and was technically drafted as one, but IIRC the large majority of scouts and analysts said that his best fit in the NFL would be at Guard. Most said he'd likely be a passable NFL Tackle but that he'd have the potential to be an elite Guard. I'm guessing the Skins drafted him realizing that.

 

As I noted, they did give him some time at Tackle during camps but the reports were that he was somewhat underwhelming there. Then they plugged him in at Guard and it was clearly where he belonged.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Scherff just made the top 100 players list! #98 

[Jumbo]

1 minute ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Scherff just made the top 100 players list! #98 

 

 

he was given awesome props by his peers --and soem great footage of him and graham of the eagles--- during the segment that featured him...must see tv

[86 Snyder]

Quenton Nelson was 13th...13th!!!...in case we want an example of a guard who deserves $18M.

 

Good for Scherff though.

[Burgundy Yoda]

2 hours ago, 86 Snyder said:

Quenton Nelson was 13th...13th!!!...in case we want an example of a guard who deserves $18M.

 

Good for Scherff though.

Scherff at 98 is a crime. 1st team All Pro and he barely cracks the top 100, thats a joke, the list is a joke. 

[mistertim]

12 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Scherff at 98 is a crime. 1st team All Pro and he barely cracks the top 100, thats a joke, the list is a joke. 

 

I think 98 is certainly low for Scherff, but at the same time IMO he isn't at all in the same echelon as Nelson and Martin. Both of those guys have been dominant All-Pro level players throughout their careers so far. Scherff has had one great year out of 6; I'm assuming that factors into where they put him.

 

I'd probably put him in the 70s.

[86 Snyder]

I havent sat down and made a top 100 and dont plan to, but just taking a quick overview...

 

32 x 3 = 96

 

Are there three players on every team that are as good as Scherff, especially when factoring in positional impact?  It sounds about right to me.  Even on our own team, which was only 7-9 of course, I'd put McLaurin, Chase, and Sweat above him on my list.  So he's over par on our own mediocre team from last year.

 

You gotta really be something special if you're a guard that wants to come in high on this list.  I only see Nelson.  Big gap, then Martin ( but he only played 10 games so this is more of an acknowledgement of what he is vs. What he did).  Another big gap, then like 4-5 guys of Scherffs caliber.

 

So I see him as fringe top 100, like 90-120ish.

 

Add in age and injury history and you have my reasons for letting him walk vs. paying him anything more than around $14M.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by 86 Snyder