Biden/Harris Legislative/Policy Discussions - Now with a Republican House starting 2023

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Pack it in folks, it’s over. 
 

 

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Pack it in folks, it’s over. 
 

 

 

This is why people do not trust Dems. That is so stupid. Let's just do nothing if we can't get exactly what we want. Absolute idiots. 

 

[Larry]

16 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

This is why people do not trust Dems. That is so stupid. Let's just do nothing if we can't get exactly what we want. Absolute idiots

Just pointing out, I don't believe that's what they're saying. 

[goskins10]

26 minutes ago, Larry said:

Just pointing out, I don't believe that's what they're saying. 

 

 

I think it is. They are saying they want a smaller package right? And if they do not get a smaller package they would rather not have any Infrastructure package right? So if they do not get what they want, a smaller package, they would rather block it completely so there is no package at all. 

 

The main point BTW was that they are showing why dems are rightfully seen as ineffective and disorganized. 

 

 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

In all honesty, what do you do? Do you get the 4-5 Dems that won’t vote for anything in the Oval Office and just say “_____ Dem businessman has a $10 million check, donation, investment, etc for each of you if you get on board with reconciliation or removing the filibuster etc.” 

 

I think somebody said that in here earlier. **** it. I don’t care about the optics or the ethics at this point. Nobody is going to remember the details of how it happened when voting rights are restored, gerrymandering is stopped, and a transformative reconciliation package is enacted.  
 

as Trump once said, “do something!” 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

Just pointing out, I don't believe that's what they're saying. 

That is what they are saying though? AOC has her finger on the flusher of the infrastructure bill toilet bowl.

[NoCalMike]

What irritates me to the core about this unwillingness by the "centrist Dems" to pass the infrastructure stuff is that they act like the price tag is some arbitrary number just made up out of nowhere, rather than funding that is desperately needed due to years of neglect.  It's like ok so you don't want to fund all this stuff that needs funding, so in 10 years when all these same problems exist and are likely even worse, the price tag is going to be even higher as the problems will likely be bigger and more tough to tackle. 

 

I have no idea why publicly funded & built infrastructure doesn't automatically by law, include a repair/upgrade funding mechanism.  If tax payers build a bridge, then there should not even be a debate that when the bridge needs to be fixed or upgraded the funding is made available.

[Fergasun]

I was about to post something about Sinema's net worth at $1M... but per her financial disclosures either she is lying about her assets, or the $1M net worth report is wrong.  

 

I personally would like to see the biggest, best bill pass... unfortunately seems like Dems have some corrupt selfish members who would rather pocket contributions... than push "full left"   

 

What should we expect with the razor thin margin in the Senate... even GOP couldn't go "full right"... ie. Obamacare repeal....  but I think you should stand behind your beliefs... much like the GOP did with their SCOTUS moves.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

 

[tshile]

13 hours ago, goskins10 said:

The main point BTW was that they are showing why dems are rightfully seen as ineffective and disorganized. 

Yeah. It’s incredible how they basically shoot themselves in the foot. 

2024 is gonna be bad. Especially if the gop nominates a non-trumper. 
 

no way Biden runs. They’re probably going to force Harris into the nomination… and I didn’t think she could win if Biden had a good 4 years. 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by tshile

[88Comrade2000]

41 minutes ago, tshile said:

Yeah. It’s incredible how they basically shoot themselves in the foot. 

2024 is gonna be bad. Especially if the gop nominates a non-trumper. 
 

no way Biden runs. They’re probably going to force Harris into the nomination… and I didn’t think she could win if Biden had a good 4 years. 

 

There’s this myth that people voted for the Democratic agenda. 
 

The only reason Biden is president and the Dems have a 50-50 tie is Trump. I didn’t vote for Biden, I voted against Trump. Biden was the only option.

 

 

 If the American people wanted Joe‘a agenda; they would’ve gave him the Congress.

 

The Dems aren’t United. The progressives and the moderates/conservative Dems are on the opposite end of spectrum. The Progressives are the majority of the house caucus. Moderates in the Senate. So, each side is using their leverage. In the end; nothing will pass.

 

Dems won’t be motivated to come out in 22. Gop will be. Gop will win the control of Congress and win back the governorships they lost in 18. The gop will be the heavy favorites for 24; even if Trump is the nominee.

 

Yes, this country is dumb enough to give him another term.

 

As for the Dem 24 nominee; it will not be Kamala. The Dems will not just give it to her. There will be a wide open race and I expect a progressive leaning candidate to Win the nomination.

[goskins10]

Actually there have been many studies that show at least some majority of American's like what Dems want to do. They have ben posted here quite a bit. The problem is they will vote against the entire agenda based on one thing they do not like, even if its to their detriment. 

 

So are people looking at and agreeing with the Dem platform? No. But when problem down to eliminate politics they support most of the plans and ideas from Dems. Infrastructure, Heath Care, climate control, and many other things the majority actually agree with. 

 

Here are jsut a few reports. You could ignore 1 or 2 but there are more. 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/majority-of-americans-support-progressive-policies-such-as-paid-maternity-leave-free-college.html

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/poll-marijuana-legalization-data-for-progress-radical-ideas-popular-aoc.html

 

This is a very good one:

https://www.dataforprogress.org/polling-the-left-agenda

 

There are more. That's jsut a quick look. Also, I am sure that it's not all 100% accurate, especially the first two. But it shows that in general a majority of people support progressive's/democrat policies but clearly some of them still vote against Dems for other reasons - guns, abortion, and immigration are the hot button issues that galvanize people against Dem policies. They ignore the rest even if they agree to vote against the dems. 

 

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

Actually there have been many studies that show at least some majority of American's like what Dems want to do. They have ben posted here quite a bit. The problem is they will vote against the entire agenda based on one thing they do not like, even if its to their detriment. 

 

So are people looking at and agreeing with the Dem platform? No. But when problem down to eliminate politics they support most of the plans and ideas from Dems. Infrastructure, Heath Care, climate control, and many other things the majority actually agree with. 

 

Here are jsut a few reports. You could ignore 1 or 2 but there are more. 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/majority-of-americans-support-progressive-policies-such-as-paid-maternity-leave-free-college.html

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/poll-marijuana-legalization-data-for-progress-radical-ideas-popular-aoc.html

 

This is a very good one:

https://www.dataforprogress.org/polling-the-left-agenda

 

There are more. That's jsut a quick look. Also, I am sure that it's not all 100% accurate, especially the first two. But it shows that in general a majority of people support progressive's/democrat policies but clearly some of them still vote against Dems for other reasons - guns, abortion, and immigration are the hot button issues that galvanize people against Dem policies. They ignore the rest even if they agree to vote against the dems. 

 

Well agreeing with Dems on most issues don't mean jack, if they are going to vote against Dems because of one or two issues.

 

I'm sure they are plenty of issues the non cult gop voters don't agree with the GOP but they will still vote for the GOP, over the Dem.

 

You know the last time the Senate was briefly 50-50 from Jan 2001 until Jun 2001; when Jim Jefford became an independent and caucused with Dems; the GOP was able to get their tax cut deal thru before the change.   That was a bigger deal than the American Rescue plan that they did pass.

 

The Dems are just weak and they have probably one of the weakest leaders since Jimmy Carter.  Jimmy was a nice dude but he got ran over by congress and then when events got bad; he couldn't really do anything.  If Biden can't get either legislation thru; his presidency is effectively over and he will be nothing more than a zombie president.

I also thing a big problem with Dems; they have way to many in positions of power controlled by people who are 65+.

Every Dem neeeds to primaried until the old gaurd is gone.  It's true the younger generation is probably more progressive but they can fight back, far better than the weak old gaurd that runs the Dems now. 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

8 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

There’s this myth that people voted for the Democratic agenda. 
 

The only reason Biden is president and the Dems have a 50-50 tie is Trump. I didn’t vote for Biden, I voted against Trump. Biden was the only option.

 

 

 If the American people wanted Joe‘a agenda; they would’ve gave him the Congress.

 

The Dems aren’t United. The progressives and the moderates/conservative Dems are on the opposite end of spectrum. The Progressives are the majority of the house caucus. Moderates in the Senate. So, each side is using their leverage. In the end; nothing will pass.

 

Dems won’t be motivated to come out in 22. Gop will be. Gop will win the control of Congress and win back the governorships they lost in 18. The gop will be the heavy favorites for 24; even if Trump is the nominee.

 

Yes, this country is dumb enough to give him another term.

 

As for the Dem 24 nominee; it will not be Kamala. The Dems will not just give it to her. There will be a wide open race and I expect a progressive leaning candidate to Win the nomination.

Democrats always have problem getting everyone on their side to agree to anything once they get power. Obama got one major reform through Congress and the Democrats fought each other over that. I think overall they lack leadership. 
 

As has been pointed out, Americans do want what Democrats are offering, but they have to get it done. The more they argue with each other over it the better it is for republicans….they are already do nothing politicians… it’s what “small government” means, well, unless you want to do something they don’t like.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[skinsmarydu]

And as for the argument that a talking filibuster would "waste time"...we've been trying to negotiate with those idiots for months now.  No matter who does it, Mitch will retract his head into his shell at some point, you know it. 

It would be a fabulous thing to see. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Couldn’t waste any more time than the last 30 years of no progress except military budgets 

[tshile]

7 hours ago, goskins10 said:

Actually there have been many studies that show at least some majority of American's like what Dems want to do.

I’ve been seeing them many just in passing, but I’ve been seeing them. it’s the most frustrating part. I’m someone who supports most of what they’re doing. I’m not even a democrat.

 

but there are problems needing solving and only one sides ideas at least make sense, even if I’m not a big fan of them. 
 

I mean. The infrastructure needs fixing right? Is there anyone that disagrees? Have the republicans even offered anything of size? I mean… I think AOC is right, this bill was too small. Doesnt construction just get more expensive? Why do we want to kick cans down the road? Put people to work. Fix our ****. Invest in ourselves. How is not offering a real investment an option?!

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Take what you can get (which is still a lot) and then fight for the rest of it. If you “loose all your leverage” by voting in the existing package what you are fighting for probably isn’t that great because great ideas are leverage themselves.  AOC and her allies are being divas by refusing to accept many thing unless it’s everything they want.

[skinsmarydu]

Chris Hayes said that Manchin is the person who will draft the climate part of the infrastructure bill...wtf??

Rachel did an awesome job of explaining the debt ceiling in her A block.  I was riveted. 

[Llevron]

6 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

because great ideas are leverage themselves. 

Don’t pretend you don’t know how this works. Just having a good idea doesn’t get it passed. We know this. 
 

You are one of the first to call Dems weak (with me). Some are actually trying to use leverage they have to force their position. If anything you should support this kind of political power grab. 

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

Don’t pretend you don’t know how this works. Just having a good idea doesn’t get it passed. We know this. 
 

You are one of the first to call Dems weak (with me). Some are actually trying to use leverage they have to force their position. If anything you should support this kind of political power grab. 

 

Yea it seems like we (and I mean the collective we) want to both complain they are weak but then also complain when they stand their ground and demand more out of the process. 

 

For me, I think it depends on the issue. In this case, I actually agree they should get what they want and then go for a phase 2. The biggest reasons for me are: 

1. We are in desperate need of infrastructure so anything would be better than nothing. 

2. Dems can show the real benefits of infrastructure to build support phase 2. 

 

If they can't get anything done there is literally no way dems win the WH or the house or senate in 2024. Could easily be a complete sweep. 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by goskins10

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

If anything you should support this kind of political power grab. 

I suppose you are right, but only if it works. But I don’t think it will work. I think we will get nothing,  because that works in the republicans favor. They are fine with nothing.

On the other hand if the Democrats can get everyone on there side to agree on something they don’t need the republicans, which is why I think they should deal with the infrastructure bill separate. Right now they are fighting amongst themselves, which as I said benefits republicans.

Edited September 22, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[gbear]

Even if they all agree on the basic plan, nothing will get past the Republicans in the Senate filibuster. I do think they need to pass something that makes the Republicans filibuster though.  Then put the issues to the people and run on them unlike the running away they did on the Affordable Care Act.