88Comrade2000 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 2 hours ago, goskins10 said: I get it, but I am also sick of the dems infighting leading to their own ineffectiveness. They need to get something passed. I am sorry if it's not the all encompassing panacea that solves al the problems of the world. Our infrastructure got bad over decades. We can't fix it over night. Gets what you can passed and show people the benefits. Then you have leverage to get the next step done. And if a few reps can get that done all the better. Stop whining and fighting with each other and got on board. As much as I hate republicans I have to give them credit for being able to rally the party around specific ideas, however backwards those ideas are. Joe Manchin did say one right thing to progressives, you want your agenda, win elections. Easier said than done. The Dems are barely in control; so all sides are using the leverage they got. I still hold that Joe and Kirsten aren't really democrats, they aren't in tune with where the party is in 21. I see them using their leverage to gut everything because they Don't want anything. The progressives are using the only leverage they have to get what they wnt. I think Biden botched this. Bill Clinton would've had everyone in the room together and not let up, until a deal is made. For the future, if progressives have to win elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 11 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: Joe Manchin did say one right thing to progressives, you want your agenda, win elections. Easier said than done. The Dems are barely in control; so all sides are using the leverage they got. I still hold that Joe and Kirsten aren't really democrats, they aren't in tune with where the party is in 21. I see them using their leverage to gut everything because they Don't want anything. The progressives are using the only leverage they have to get what they wnt. I think Biden botched this. Bill Clinton would've had everyone in the room together and not let up, until a deal is made. For the future, if progressives have to win elections. I disagree with this. It's a completely different time with a completely different set of players. Bill was pre tea party. That was when congress and the senate would still negotiate and ultimately work together. There were still just enough people who refused to go scorched earth that some things could get accomplished. Bill Clinton with all his charm would be facing the exact same issue right now. People have gotten used to the idea of my way or **** you. That started in earnest with the tea party and now is in every part of our politics. It was always some part of our politics but you could still get things done. But now it's jsut not that way. You are considered weak if you dare give a single inch. I do agree Sinema and Manchin are not democrats. Both are lying garbage and not at all interested in anything but self promotion. I am more afraid and certain every day that the Biden presidency will be a lot of promises and nothing done becasue there are too many selfish factions in the party. So the republicans will win in 2024 and when they do th rules will be changed making it almost impossible for a democrat to ever win again. They came close during trump. It will be worse when the dems lose again. v I am getting pretty close to retirement. And I am seriously thinking of moving out of country if that happens. I do not want to live in a completely republican controlled country. Moving is something I never would have even considered. But after seeing 4 yrs of trump, I do not want to do it again. I hated every minute of it. A was so embarrassed as a US citizen. And to think there are enough people who do not get how caustic and anti-American it was to the point they would vote for more of it, makes me literally sick to my stomach. Portugal, Panama, and Costa Rica are the best locations for anyone interested. Very reasonable process and fees to become a citizen. Cost of living is 50% to 60% of even the more affordable parts of the US. Access to public health care for free with small premiums (<$150.00/mo) for what we would consider Cadillac care. And already lots of Americans there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 On 10/26/2021 at 3:03 PM, Momma There Goes That Man said: But why? Fine with me. Helps Biden with his bipartisan bonafides plus it's just a position securing elections. I assume it the position is just making sure elections aren't being tampered with. Plus added benefit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 First thing, the only reason the Dems are in the position to begin with is because they are getting ZERO votes from the GOP. The GOP knows a lot of the things in the bill will help their constituents and whatever version of the bill passes, make no mistake about it, all these GOPers who voted "No" on it, will turn around and use elements from the same bill during their own re-election plans just like they did in 2020 local races. Secondly, much like Obamacare/Health Care Reform, this problem is never going to go away until the American people stop basing their opinion on legislation 100% depending on who is writing it. Tons of the build back better bill, if not the entire thing is popular with GOP voters as well, unfortunately that is not how it gets covered in the media, especially right-wing media. All it is ever about is "it's Team Biden, and it must be destroyed" so people stop paying attention to what's in the actual bill. There is a reason Obamacare is way more popular now than it was when it was passed, because nearly a decade later Obama himself, is barely associated with it in the daily lives of these red state voters. When you remove the names & faces from the legislation, then it truly becomes about discussing the legislation, debating the legislation etc etc....and on economics it is progressive legislation that the majority of America is in favor of, even if half of them can't bring themselves to admit it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogsVa7 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 On 10/29/2021 at 11:48 AM, goskins10 said: I disagree with this. It's a completely different time with a completely different set of players. Bill was pre tea party. That was when congress and the senate would still negotiate and ultimately work together. There were still just enough people who refused to go scorched earth that some things could get accomplished. Bill Clinton with all his charm would be facing the exact same issue right now. People have gotten used to the idea of my way or **** you. That started in earnest with the tea party and now is in every part of our politics. It was always some part of our politics but you could still get things done. But now it's jsut not that way. You are considered weak if you dare give a single inch. I do agree Sinema and Manchin are not democrats. Both are lying garbage and not at all interested in anything but self promotion. I am more afraid and certain every day that the Biden presidency will be a lot of promises and nothing done becasue there are too many selfish factions in the party. So the republicans will win in 2024 and when they do th rules will be changed making it almost impossible for a democrat to ever win again. They came close during trump. It will be worse when the dems lose again. v I am getting pretty close to retirement. And I am seriously thinking of moving out of country if that happens. I do not want to live in a completely republican controlled country. Moving is something I never would have even considered. But after seeing 4 yrs of trump, I do not want to do it again. I hated every minute of it. A was so embarrassed as a US citizen. And to think there are enough people who do not get how caustic and anti-American it was to the point they would vote for more of it, makes me literally sick to my stomach. Portugal, Panama, and Costa Rica are the best locations for anyone interested. Very reasonable process and fees to become a citizen. Cost of living is 50% to 60% of even the more affordable parts of the US. Access to public health care for free with small premiums (<$150.00/mo) for what we would consider Cadillac care. And already lots of Americans there. You said you couldn't take another four years of Trump, but compared to what the United States is going through right now with the Biden Administration what is your difference? Cause the United States for the past four years was way better off then what we are in now until Covid hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 43 minutes ago, RedskinsVa7 said: You said you couldn't take another four years of Trump, but compared to what the United States is going through right now with the Biden Administration what is your difference? Cause the United States for the past four years was way better off then what we are in now until Covid hit. What exactly is the United States going through now with the Biden administration? What was going in the four years before Covid that was way better off? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogsVa7 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 42 minutes ago, Hersh said: What exactly is the United States going through now with the Biden administration? What was going in the four years before Covid that was way better off? The same question I ask you. You can't admit it. 45 minutes ago, Hersh said: What exactly is the United States going through now with the Biden administration? What was going in the four years before Covid that was way better off? Open your eyes and see Reality my friend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, RedskinsVa7 said: You said you couldn't take another four years of Trump, but compared to what the United States is going through right now with the Biden Administration what is your difference? Cause the United States for the past four years was way better off then what we are in now until Covid hit. In the 3 yrs before Covid, trump created less jobs per month than Obama. deficit spending increased from a low of $450B (2014) to over $1T with most of that going to the rich, and he added about the same to the debt in 4 yrs that republicans cried about Obama adding in 8 yrs. The difference is Trump inherited a very good economy despite right wing rhetoric - 80+ months of job growth, unemployment from a high of 10%+ (thank you republicans and W!) to less than 5%, and got heath care for 30M people who did not have it, along with aforementioned drop in deficit spending. And let us not forget trump has had more people indicted for crimes than literally any other president. Not to mention he is a large part of why Covid has been so tragic. I could go on but that is a good start. I am happy to have a civil conversation, but making statements like the one above is testifying without foundation or fact. Provide facts, examples, data, and reason and I am in. More like the above and I am out. Your choice. Edited November 1, 2021 by goskins10 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogsVa7 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 52 minutes ago, Hersh said: What exactly is the United States going through now with the Biden administration? What was going in the four years before Covid that was way better off? What I was saying is that our country was better off then what is going on now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogsVa7 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, goskins10 said: In the 3 yrs before Covid, trump created less jobs per month than Obama. deficit spending increased from a low of $450B (2014) to over $1T with most of that going to the rich, and he added about the same to the debt in 4 yrs that republicans cried about Obama adding in 4 yrs. The difference is Trump inherited a very good economy despite right wing rhetoric - 80+ months of job growth, unemployment from a high of 10%+ (thank you republicans and W!) to less than 5%, and got heath care for 30M people who did not have it, along with aforementioned drop in deficit spending. And let us not forget he has had more people indicted for crimes than literally any other president. Not to mention he a large part of why Covid has been so tragic. I could go on but that is a good start. I am happy to have a civil conversation, but making statements like the one above is testifying without foundation or fact. Provide facts, examples, data, and reason and I am in. More like the above and I am out. Your choice. Ask China about Covid, oh wait...... they don't want to talk about it. Just now, RedskinsVa7 said: Ask China about Covid, oh wait...... they don't want to talk about it. Check your Facts again lol 3 minutes ago, RedskinsVa7 said: Ask China about Covid, oh wait...... they don't want to talk about it. Check your Facts again lol Whatever info you got that from check again lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 20 minutes ago, RedskinsVa7 said: The same question I ask you. You can't admit it. Open your eyes and see Reality my friend. Wow, how enlightening. Long live Q*bert. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogsVa7 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 See I quoted myself to respond to myself cause that's what you far left people do. You know the truth but it is what it is right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogsVa7 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, Hersh said: Wow, how enlightening. Long live Q*bert. Explain to me why USA is doing great right now? Say it..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, RedskinsVa7 said: Explain to me why USA is doing great right now? Say it..... Cause that Fascist wanna-be Trump is no longer POTUS. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogsVa7 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, Hersh said: Cause that Fascist wanna-be Trump is no longer POTUS. Yeah....ok act like nothing is wrong. You have the same the answer like every far left person. You know the truth and you still didn't answer my question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 1, 2021 Author Share Posted November 1, 2021 35 minutes ago, RedskinsVa7 said: Ask China about Covid, oh wait...... they don't want to talk about it. Check your Facts again lol Whatever info you got that from check again lol. Snarky comments is not having a civil conversation. So I will not participate further other than to put to rest the false narrative you spouted. In 2018 trump disbanded the US Pandemic Response team put together by the Obama administration in cost cutting measures that removed a CDC scientist out of Wuhan. So anything that happened after that Trump owns. Not to mention his response during it was a disaster - hide your head and hope it goes away. The only good thing he did was allow and EUA to be used for the vaccines. But then he even hosed that up by convincing his followers the vaccine was bad and politicized all preventative measures. Again, if you want to provide facts and data and have a civil conversation then I can do that. But the garbage you wrote above has no value. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogsVa7 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, goskins10 said: Snarky comments is not having a civil conversation. So I will not participate further other than to put to rest the false narrative you spouted. In 2018 trump disbanded the US Pandemic Response team put together by the Obama administration in cost cutting measures that removed a CDC scientist out of Wuhan. So anything that happened after that Trump owns. Not to mention his response during it was a disaster - hide your head and hope it goes away. The only good thing he did was allow and EUA to be used for the vaccines. But then he even hosed that up by convincing his followers the vaccine was bad and politicized all preventative measures. Again, if you want to provide facts and data and have a civil conversation then I can do that. But the garbage you wrote above has no value. How did COVID-19 get here Is what I'm asking you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, RedskinsVa7 said: How did COVID-19 get here Is what I'm asking you? What difference does it make? It came from China. Viruses can come from anywhere. You want to prevent the next one? Edited November 1, 2021 by Mooka 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, RedskinsVa7 said: Yeah....ok act like nothing is wrong. You have the same the answer like every far left person. You know the truth and you still didn't answer my question. Sure thing Q-Bert. Here’s the thing, you stated an opinion about the state of the US and when asked to explain it, you didn’t. Instead, you asked me a question, which I actually answered. It’s great not having that dumb **** wanna be fascist prick in office anymore. **** him and everyone that still worships him. All of them are anti-democratic, anti-constitution ****s. Now, you may continue to not answer questions posed to you and you may choose to deflect with comments about “far left people do this or that” but that only gives the impression that you are an arrogant ignorant person. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, RedskinsVa7 said: How did COVID-19 get here Is what I'm asking you? Everyone knows that Fauci brought it here personally. Lock that guy up. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 41 minutes ago, RedskinsVa7 said: Explain to me why USA is doing great right now? Say it..... If you aren’t better off now than you were three years ago, I suggest you pick yourself up by your bootstraps. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins59 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, RedskinsVa7 said: How did COVID-19 get here Is what I'm asking you? It got here under Trump. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogsVa7 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hersh said: Sure thing Q-Bert. Here’s the thing, you stated an opinion about the state of the US and when asked to explain it, you didn’t. Instead, you asked me a question, which I actually answered. It’s great not having that dumb **** wanna be fascist prick in office anymore. **** him and everyone that still worships him. All of them are anti-democratic, anti-constitution ****s. Now, you may continue to not answer questions posed to you and you may choose to deflect with comments about “far left people do this or that” but that only gives the impression that you are an arrogant ignorant person. Are you talking about Biden??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 1, 2021 Author Share Posted November 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, RedskinsVa7 said: How did COVID-19 get here Is what I'm asking you? Yes, Covid came here from China. So? That is no secret unless you are claiming it was done on purpose with malice and that is just conspiracy theory nutcase talk from Facebook - something I do not use. Again, none of that even matters because if trump had not disbanded the US Pandemic Response that had a CDC scientist in China we would have had mush earlier knowledge. Although it's clear trump was not interested in doing anything about it. And please do not beat the he closed China flights drum. He allowed 40,000 in after and only did the flight ban as part of his economic fight he was losing due to his ill advised far too overreaching tariffs. I have no problem with specific well defined and targeted tariffs. But his bull in a China shop (approach was not value added. And you never addressed any of the economic factors which goes directly to your false claim that pre-covid we were doing so great. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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