Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I am indeed, and I am confident all of us will be after tonight.

Hey I'm not the engineer of the heinicke hype train, that's clearly you but I've been in the first car right behind you all along.

🙂

[Rogue Jedi]

I just watched Heinicke's career highlights on YouTube. 

 

I don't think I saw a single attempt over 40 yds.

 

Either he takes what the defense gives him, or he just doesn't have confidence in his arm to make those throws. My money is on the latter, but maybe we can see if he takes some shots tonight.

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I am indeed, and I am confident all of us will be after tonight.

 

 

Which team's ODU Alum are you favoring tonight ?

I'm guessing you'd rather see Heinicke win, than the Giants' Ximines, right ?

This article calls Ximine a "major X-Factor".

Although that could be just a play with words - or a play with Letters, considering his last name.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/08/24/oshane-ximines-could-be-major-x-factor-for-giants/

 

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[redskinss]

9 minutes ago, Rogue Jedi said:

 

I don't think I saw a single attempt over 40 yds

The incomplete pass (which is why you didn't see it in highlights but was perfectly thrown) to cam Sims in the bucs playoff game traveled 45 yards in the air.

Not saying that means he's a field stretcher but since his tape is very limited I figured I'd mention it as a pass he got downfield more than 40 yards.

[88Comrade2000]

30/40 for 270 yards and 2 tds and 2 ints

[Tress Is The Way]

32 minutes ago, Rogue Jedi said:

I just watched Heinicke's career highlights on YouTube. 

 

I don't think I saw a single attempt over 40 yds.

 

Either he takes what the defense gives him, or he just doesn't have confidence in his arm to make those throws. My money is on the latter, but maybe we can see if he takes some shots tonight.

Attempting to throw over 40 yards isn't some magical metric. Deep passes in the NFL are considered over 30 yards, and Heinicke threw one last week to Scary Terry (37 yards). All things considered throwing over 40 yards through the air and having it completed is not only extremely difficult, but most QBs don't do that due to the simple fact that an INT is a much greater probability compared to a completion. You don't see QBs going out and throwing hail mary's every single snap do you? Because that's essentially what a over 40 yard pass is.

Edited September 16, 2021 by ZarG3

[ODU AGGIE]

27 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

Which team's ODU Alum are you favoring tonight ?

I'm guessing you'd rather see Heinicke win, than the Giants' Ximines, right ?

 

 

I wouldn't mind seeing OX have a good game, as long as he doesn't put a big hit on TH, and the WFT win is never in doubt. It is going to be a little fun seeing them both in the same game, as there are just not that many Monarchs in the NFL. I think we are down to four now that Travis Fulgham (WR) was let go from the Eagles and Tim Ward (DE) was let go from the Chiefs. That leaves us with Heinicke, Ximines, Zach Pascal (WR with the Colts) and Rick Lovato (Long Snapper with the Eagles), all starters.

Edited September 16, 2021 by ODU AGGIE

[MartinC]

19 minutes ago, ZarG3 said:

You don't see QBs going out and throwing hail mary's every single snap do you? Because that's essentially what a over 40 yard pass is.

 

What the coverage is defines the risk on a long pass. If a D is in Cover 1 with single man outside and you can hold the free safety in the middle of the field throwing a go route to Terry McLaurin is not a 'hail mary'. The ability to stretch the field and generate chunk plays is an essential part of a successful NFL offense. If a defense does not respect your willingness and ability to stretch the field it enables them to squat on short and intermediate routes - that makes both your passing game AND running game much more difficult to execute.

[Malapropismic Depository]

In order to see more throws that are 40+ yards airborne, don't you need more speed at WR ?

In the Carolina and Tampa games of 2020, we only had McLaurin with that kind of speed.

That's why we got Samuel and Brown in the offseason, so teams couldn't just focus on McLaurin.

But of course Samuel is out hurt, and Brown hasn't yet been acclimated to the offense.

So that may explain why we didn't see it against the LAC, either. It's still just McLaurin as the deep threat AFAIK.

 

And as others have mentioned, there are other multiple factors why we havn't seen it.

So it's not necessarily an inculpation against Heinicke.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[Tress Is The Way]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

What the coverage is defines the risk on a long pass. If a D is in Cover 1 with single man outside and you can hold the free safety in the middle of the field throwing a go route to Terry McLaurin is not a 'hail mary'. The ability to stretch the field and generate chunk plays is an essential part of a successful NFL offense. If a defense does not respect your willingness and ability to stretch the field it enables them to squat on short and intermediate routes - that makes both your passing game AND running game much more difficult to execute.

Don't get me wrong, I get where you are coming from. I was just throwing that out that the person was basing deep passes on anything over 40 yards, which it is not.

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Sports Science question here.

Can a QB do things to increase his "football arm strength" ? I'm thinkin @Skinsinparadise would have an idea.

If that was possible, I'm guessing more QB's would have done it, or would be doing it.

But is it as simple as a certain arm or shoulder muscle being made stronger ? Or is it some other element that's difficult to modify ?

If arm or forearm muscles are any indication, it looks like Heinicke has been working on those arms to increase arm strength

 

 

 

 

 

I always put it in category of arm talent, much like a pitchers and how fast they can throw. Interesting though, haven’t heard or read about guys increasing arm strength. 

 

[Jumbo]

you know where i am with all three of our qbs, on the field-wise, but i believe we are unanimous in liking the idea of heinie lighting it up and running circles around the gnats, which i think is quite possible,  or at least that we get the w  

 

back in the cousins vs rg3 daze i more than a few would seem to take delight in a loss if they thought it helped their qb argument

 

we're progressing!! 

[HigSkin]

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Sports Science question here.

Can a QB do things to increase his "football arm strength" ? I'm thinkin @Skinsinparadise would have an idea.

If that was possible, I'm guessing more QB's would have done it, or would be doing it.

But is it as simple as a certain arm or shoulder muscle being made stronger ? Or is it some other element that's difficult to modify ?

If arm or forearm muscles are any indication, it looks like Heinicke has been working on those arms to increase arm strength

 

 

I don't know whether this is the right answer or not but considering bio-mechanics, guys with strong arms have a quick release and throwing motion.  Not sure it exactly correlates to shoulder or arm muscle.  Seems if Heinicke wants more arm strength, he'd be working on those two attributes.  Apparently, people are saying Brady has more zip on his balls then ever.  Maybe it's the Avocado ice cream!  LOL 

[redskinss]

Let's also not forget that pretty much all heinicke has gotten so far is relief appearances and a start in the playoffs against an elite defense.

That's not exactly a recipe for a lot of huge downfield plays.

Those are the type of situations where coaches are inclined to call a lot of runs and short passes.

[ODU AGGIE]

2 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

I don't know whether this is the right answer or not but considering bio-mechanics, guys with strong arms have a quick release and throwing motion.  Not sure it exactly correlates to shoulder or arm muscle.  Seems if Heinicke wants more arm strength, he'd be working on those two attributes.  Apparently, people are saying Brady has more zip on his balls then ever.  Maybe it's the Avocado ice cream!  LOL 

I think maybe there is something to this avocado hypothesis. My wife told my daughter if she ate the guacamole it would give her big boobs. Worked for her. Cheers, all!

[ODU AGGIE]

43 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

What the coverage is defines the risk on a long pass. If a D is in Cover 1 with single man outside and you can hold the free safety in the middle of the field throwing a go route to Terry McLaurin is not a 'hail mary'. The ability to stretch the field and generate chunk plays is an essential part of a successful NFL offense. If a defense does not respect your willingness and ability to stretch the field it enables them to squat on short and intermediate routes - that makes both your passing game AND running game much more difficult to execute.

If the D squats the short and intermediate routes on Heinicke, I am confident they will regret it. TH cannot throw the ball 60-65 yards, but I have seen him throw it 50-55 yards with more than reasonable accuracy. If McLaurin breaks open on a go or post, TH will get the ball to him.

[FuriousD]

7 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I think maybe there is something to this avocado hypothesis. My wife told my daughter if she ate the guacamole it would give her big boobs. Worked for her. Cheers, all!

Explains my moobs, I guess.  Love avocado...

[757SeanTaylor21]

I think odu aggie is Heineken himself lol

[NoCalMike]

I think throwing far is a metric way over-examined.  Most every QB in the NFL can throw the ball downfield when a WR breaks wide open. Some can do it with barely a flick, while others have to put their entire body into the throw, but either way they can get the ball there.  Arm strength more comes in when we are talking about throwing the ball into tight windows or on specific routes where you need the strength to get it to a WR running a crossing route with a defender tailing them.  Heaving the ball downfield is way different. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

30 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 Apparently, people are saying Brady has more zip on his balls then ever.  Maybe it's the Avocado ice cream!  LOL 

 

26 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I think maybe there is something to this avocado hypothesis. My wife told my daughter if she ate the guacamole it would give her big boobs. Worked for her. Cheers, all!

 

That benefit apparently did work for Tom Brady too

 

 

[Rogue Jedi]

I agree that throwing distance is a tad over-examined, and I would love nothing more than Heinicke to dissect intermediate areas all the way to the Super Bowl.

 

But the fact of the matter is, the stronger the arm, the more area of the field you can attack a defense. Not just vertically, but also fitting the ball into tight windows or with the velocity to hit deep-outs on the sideline before a defender can close. 

[ThomasRoane]

2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Sports Science question here.

Can a QB do things to increase his "football arm strength" ? I'm thinkin @Skinsinparadise would have an idea.

If that was possible, I'm guessing more QB's would have done it, or would be doing it.

But is it as simple as a certain arm or shoulder muscle being made stronger ? Or is it some other element that's difficult to modify ?

If arm or forearm muscles are any indication, it looks like Heinicke has been working on those arms to increase arm strength

 

 

You can help improve it some by working the legs (as you drive the ball), triceps, and shoulder.  The three most important areas that I work on when I coach QBs are their core power zones (knees to pecs), arm motion, and spin. 

 

Usually, the QBs that have that good overhand motion will be more accurate, have fewer balls batted, and will better able to drive that ball to the target.  Coaching point is "chop wood!"

 

Next is spin.  The more revolutions you get on the ball the better it will cut thru the air.  Especially on a windy day.  You also end up with more accuracy.  Brees had one of the best spins I've ever seen.  He did a really cool sports science show where he trashed an Olympic archer in a contest.  This why you hear somebody rave about a QB who can "really spin it."  I suppose hand size does come into play on this.  Making sure that index finger is the last finger on the ball is critical.  The best way to encourage a good spin is with accuracy drills.  I had a net with several boxes and I'd call out a box (each had its own color) at the top of the drop and have the QB focus on a good spin to the target.

 

Finally, and probably most important is torque.  The ability to rotate your upper body helps you get so much more velocity.  Think Tiger Woods in his early days when he had insane drives.  Mike Tyson with that short right hand.  For football, I think of Dan Marino.  Check out the torque around the 1:02 mark.   Probably my favorite QB in the NFL now, Patrick Mahomes, is just amazing at torqueing his body.  He gets away with breaking all the rules for how a QB's feet should be planted because of the torque that he exerts.  He can get enough velocity on his passes from virtually any stance or platform.    Torque can be improved with a lot of core work and there are some good drills for teaching it as well.  There's the one-knee drill where the player has to bring the ball back, torque his body as he throws.  I usually coach them to imagine they're trying to break glass with the non-throwing elbow.    You can also have them face you and without moving their feet torque the body and throw that way.  

 

All this can be drilled to improve a QB's velocity.  The problem is that for a QB who has thrown a certain way all his life will revert to that during a game when adrenaline starts flowing.  That was the issue for Tebow and Leftwich.  Neither of them could get rid of the hitch in their throwing motions.  For Heinicke, you just tell him to be himself.  When things break down, just play football.  Have fun and do your thing.  It's probably too late to reconstruct his throwing motion after all these years.  That doesn't mean he can't be effective though.  He can overcome that with savvy and mobility.  He also has not shown any self-doubt.  That can be huge for a football player at any position.  

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by ThomasRoane

[MartinC]

31 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I think throwing far is a metric way over-examined.  Most every QB in the NFL can throw the ball downfield when a WR breaks wide open. Some can do it with barely a flick, while others have to put their entire body into the throw, but either way they can get the ball there.  Arm strength more comes in when we are talking about throwing the ball into tight windows or on specific routes where you need the strength to get it to a WR running a crossing route with a defender tailing them.  Heaving the ball downfield is way different. 

 

100%. The standard 'test' of arm strength on a QB is can they throw the deep out from the opposite hash. Thats 'only' 12-15 yards past the line of scrimmage but its a heck of a lot further in terms of distance thrown and it needs to be driven in - you cant put air under it like you can when you throw a go route.

[ODU AGGIE]

1 hour ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

I think odu aggie is Heineken himself lol

Nah. Just an old man who watched him for four years at ODU. It is almost impossible to not like and believe in a modest young man who displayed such exceptional skill at QB. ODU restarted football in 2009 after about a 60-year absence. As a freshman in 2011, and in ODU's first year as an FCS program, TH led ODU to a 10-3 record and followed that with an 11-2 record as a sophomore, resulting in ODU's fledgling program being invited to join C-USA as an FBS program with the transition occurring in his junior and senior years. Though the won/loss records fell to 8-4 and 6-6 in his last two years due to the increased level of competition and a team made  up largely of FCS recruits, he still managed to complete 67% of his passes for 7,498 yards and 63 TDs. For his four years at ODU, he threw for just a tad under 15,000 yards and 132 TDs while running for an additional 1,320 yards and 22 TDs.  It was easy to pull for this young man to step up to the NFL with confidence that he would do well. However he was not drafted, apparently because of his size. Like many other ODU fans, I watched his struggles as he went to the Vikings, Texans, Patriots and Panthers. Then, just as he was about to give up on football he got a call from the WFT to be their emergency covid backkup -- and wound up starting in the playoff game where he played like all his ODU fans knew he could -- because we watched him play the same way for four years at ODU. I have never seen anyone stick to it and work as hard as he has to finally get this opportunity -- one that he has earned and deserves. Quite frankly, having watched him and pulled for him all this time, I am fully convinced and certain that he will come through with flying colors. Cheers, all!

Edited September 16, 2021 by ODU AGGIE

[Califan007 The Constipated]

One NSFW word...but seems appropriate for this thread at this time lol.

 

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