Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Chris 44]

1	Joe Burrow	Cincinnati Bengals	QB	14
2	Lamar Jackson	Baltimore Ravens	QB	13
2	Ryan Tannehill	Tennessee Titans	QB	13
4	Patrick Mahomes	Kansas City Chiefs	QB	12
5	Zach Wilson	New York Jets	QB	11
5	Justin Herbert	Los Angeles Chargers	QB	11
5	Matt Ryan	Atlanta Falcons	QB	11
5	Sam Darnold	Carolina Panthers	QB	11
5	Taylor Heinicke	Washington Football Team	QB	11
10	Tom Brady	Tampa Bay Buccaneers	QB	10
10	Josh Allen	Buffalo Bills	QB	10
10	Trevor Lawrence	Jacksonville Jaguars	QB	10
13	Derek Carr	Las Vegas Raiders	QB	9
13	Matthew Stafford	Los Angeles Rams	QB	9
15	Jalen Hurts	Philadelphia Eagles	QB	8
15	Justin Fields	Chicago Bears	QB	8
15	Jimmy Garoppolo	San Francisco 49ers	QB	8
15	Dak Prescott	Dallas Cowboys	QB	8
15	Mike White	New York Jets	QB	8
15	Mac Jones	New England Patriots	QB	8
15	Davis Mills	Houston Texans	QB	8
22	Jared Goff	Detroit Lions	QB	7
22	Kyler Murray	Arizona Cardinals	QB	7
22	Daniel Jones	New York Giants	QB	7
22	Teddy Bridgewater	Denver Broncos	QB	7
26	Andy Dalton	Chicago Bears	QB	6
26	Tua Tagovailoa	Miami Dolphins	QB	6
26	Ben Roethlisberger	Pittsburgh Steelers	QB	6
26	Baker Mayfield	Cleveland Browns	QB	6
30	Taysom Hill	New Orleans Saints	QB	5
30	Tyrod Taylor	Houston Texans	QB	5
30	Carson Wentz	Indianapolis Colts	QB	5

 

 

Dont know if Heinicke has a problem with interceptions but according to this I think he isnt as bad as some would think. Hes in the top half but so are a lot of what people would consider very good quarterbacks. Is Heinikes interceptions at a more crucial point in the game? Dont get a chance to watch too many other games but going just by these stats I dont think thats his main issue, though I understand he has had a few dropped potential picks but are the other QB's in the same boat? First year NFL starter.

[Thinking Skins]

10 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I can't see Turner getting offered a HC position. The offense has not been lighting it up and he's never been considered a dynamic, inventive prospect. I've been wrong before, but it'd really surprise me if he even received a call for an interview.

I believe that and for the life of me I don't want it. I'm not the biggest Turner supporter but I think I'm bigger than most (especially compared to some Heinicke supporters who think Turner's handicapping him a lot and some who think Turner runs inside or outside too much), but with the way the league is going and Turner's lineage it wouldn't surprise me. We are in the middle of a playoff run that is similar to what we did in 2012 that ultimately got Lafleur, McVay and Shanny HC jobs. But not that year, so maybe there's time. We're also seeing from these press conferences that he's well spoken, smart, and can build an offense around a variety of weapons. We see the guy in Philly who is now their coach and was on nobody's radar. And I think it will just depend on stuff like how deep our playoff run is, and who is fired and the types of teams they have. 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, zskins said:

 

The book hasn't even been written on Taylor yet. How many QBs come out of the draft that has everything Taylor has but with a stronger arm? Hardly any. If you say someone like Mahomes then I will let you know that Taylor is right below him in QBR and above Ben. Pretty nice to be in the company of those two. We all have standards. I want to be a billionaire but I will settle for a millionaire instead. I can still live a comfortable life either way.

 

I guess I am not into the whole upper echelon or perennial. I just want a QB who is effective and we win. I get the whole consistency and being in the playoffs year in and year out but if you never get to the SB and win what is so good about having a perennial QB except for some bragging rights that we have won the division and we have been to playoffs more than once. 

 

 

Sure you but if you're a millionaire are you going to rest on that or keep trying to build your business towards billionaire range?

 

The good of having a perennial contender and elite QB for a decade plus is just statistics. If you have an elite QB and you're a top notch team year in and year out, you're more likely to get all the way. The other way (middle tier QB, big time supporting cast and defense) is basically catching lightning in a bottle. It's possible, but I certainly wouldn't bet on it.

 

That doesn't mean you'll definitely get to the SB or win one. But if you're a consistent 10+ per year win team with an elite QB for a decade then you're much more likely to go all the way than if you're an up and down or mediocre range team with a middle tier QB (or more likely several middle tier QBs in that time) that has to have a ton of stuff fall into place at the exact right time.

[ILikeBilly]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

And I agreed with this. It's one thing to do it once. But to really be the guy you have to do it multiple seasons...   

See Tampa Bay games from last season and this season.  Clearly Tampa had plenty of film and first hand knowledge of Taylor, but they couldn't stop him.

 

But, yes, we need him to stay consistent.  If the last four games are his average play level, he isn't a middle of the pack QB.  He is top ten.  I really hope the offense can stay/get healthy for the last five games.  So sad about Logan.  We need oline, Curtis and DJ back on the field.  Will be nice to get Sweat back too.

[mojo]

Anybody notice yesterday when one the LV defenders sacked Heinicke and gave a leg pull while getting up, our O-line immediately jumped in.  This team definitely likes Heincke, no doubt.

[Chris 44]

9 minutes ago, mojo said:

Anybody notice yesterday when one the LV defenders sacked Heinicke and gave a leg pull while getting up, our O-line immediately jumped in.  This team definitely likes Heincke, no doubt.

LOL. I thought Flowers was about to go mental!

[goskins10]

14 minutes ago, mojo said:

Anybody notice yesterday when one the LV defenders sacked Heinicke and gave a leg pull while getting up, our O-line immediately jumped in.  This team definitely likes Heincke, no doubt.

 

 

I posted the video at the end of last page - about 6 posts before yours. It's fun to watch. 

[skinsfan93]

50 minutes ago, mojo said:

Anybody notice yesterday when one the LV defenders sacked Heinicke and gave a leg pull while getting up, our O-line immediately jumped in.  This team definitely likes Heincke, no doubt.

I agree the team likes Heinicke but every team will come to the defense of their qb. 

[ntotoro]

2 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

I agree the team likes Heinicke but every team will come to the defense of their qb. 

 

Jeff George would like a word with you.

 

I don't remember this team (or Minny) going to bat for Cousins, either.

[dswerdlw]

4 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

I agree the team likes Heinicke but every team will come to the defense of their qb. 

That's true about every team, but it's pretty easy to distinguish between the obligatory defense of one's QB and the passionate defense of one's QB. Flowers definitely belongs in the latter group. From Jonathon Allen's press conference, it's pretty clear that the team has chosen to follow and stick up for Heinicke. They have his back for real.

[dunfer]

Protect your heini. I’ve heard stories about this Parsons fella

[tomwvr]

18 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

Jeff George would like a word with you.

 

I don't remember this team (or Minny) going to bat for Cousins, either.

I was going to say that and you beat me to it….

[redskin301]

I think yesterday went really well for our playoff hopes with Minnesota and San Francisco losing 

and of course Us beating the Raiders

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, tomwvr said:

I was going to say that and you beat me to it….

And I beat both of you to it! Last page...  🙂  

 

[CapsSkins]

Talk about what Heinicke is or isn't in the abstract gets hazy pretty quickly. The best way to have this conversation IMO is to put your hypothetical money where your mouth is via tangible decision points.

 

I've seen enough that - barring a drastic shift in the next five games - I'm ready to extend Heinicke using the Foles Bears contract as my comp: 3 years x $8M with a decent portion guaranteed and incentives to get him to the $10M AAV level if he wins games.

 

I'm also willing to trade up ~5 draft slots in the 1st round to get a coveted QB prospect, but I'm not interested in trading all the way up to the top 5 or paying big for a reclamation project or high-priced veteran.

 

Give Taylor some life-changing money and the starter role but take your shot on finding a top 5-10 guy via the draft if you can. But don't pay through the nose. The formula we're building can work, especially if Taylor improves even 10-15% on what we're seeing with more experience. Run the ball, move the chains, chew the clock, and let your stingy defense get you the ball back. It's like Gibbs Era football but re-fitted for the modern passing era. This can work.

[method man]

2 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Talk about what Heinicke is or isn't in the abstract gets hazy pretty quickly. The best way to have this conversation IMO is to put your hypothetical money where your mouth is via tangible decision points.

 

I've seen enough that - barring a drastic shift in the next five games - I'm ready to extend Heinicke using the Foles Bears contract as my comp: 3 years x $8M with a decent portion guaranteed and incentives to get him to the $10M AAV level if he wins games.

 

I'm also willing to trade up ~5 draft slots in the 1st round to get a coveted QB prospect, but I'm not interested in trading all the way up to the top 5 or paying big for a reclamation project or high-priced veteran.

 

Give Taylor some life-changing money and the starter role but take your shot on finding a top 5-10 guy via the draft if you can. But don't pay through the nose. The formula we're building can work, especially if Taylor improves even 10-15% on what we're seeing with more experience. Run the ball, move the chains, chew the clock, and let your stingy defense get you the ball back. It's like Gibbs Era football but re-fitted for the modern passing era. This can work.

 

@SoCal Skins Fan suggested something like this and I am getting on board with it. With the cap set to explode, $10M+ a year will end up being high end backup QB money. I think worst case if we need the cap space, it wouldn't be difficult to move him to a QB needy team assuming he doesn't fall apart

[ThomasRoane]

8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Terry was in single coverage most of the day with no deep safety help often. 

 

 

The Seahawks, Raiders, and Cowboys all run the old Seattle 3 high umbrella defense with lots of zone players in the middle to force you to run the ball or hold it to find shots in the middle.  Yeah, they may mix it up occasionally but mostly they sit in that zone and dare the QB to be perfect or risk getting the ball tipped or hold it for the sack.  Like Washington, they play a crap ton of zone to keep everything in front of them. 

 

I dunno what you were looking at but the Raiders were in zone most of the day.  Which is why Turner kept running the ball and throwing screens.  You can't attack that scheme vertically.  You have to attack it horizontally.  The gameplan was effective on the first drive.  But yesterday the WFT missed McKissic as the change up back.  Then there was a couple of missed opportunities like the play to Samuel on the screen. (He's still trying to find his game legs I think.) 

 

KDawg is on the money about pressure.  It was consistent enough to bother any QB.  

 

I think it's funny when couch coaches complain when a QB who has been getting knocked around like a ping pong ball doesn't stand tall on every single play.  Even when there's no pressure, a QB who has been hit a lot will sense it coming and their mental clock will speed up.  It's not so much that they're afraid of getting hit.  It's more that they don't want to be sacked so their timing speeds up.  Hell, it even happened to Tom Brady.  Twice vs the Giants.  Thanks to Allen, Payne, and Ionnaidas, it happens to a lot of opposing QBs as well.

[TChaler70]

That was a hard hitting tough environment real football game and TH got shellacked and kept coming and came through. 

 

There are really some unrealistic expectations here, I mean people see him as only a one win max SB winner, cmon, I dont know crap about football but thats insane. Your just waiting for failure. If you believe you can put together a team around him and win a SB you do it, you dont replace him.

 

The other thing you see among all message boards not just here  is the we need to draft a qb to get the "franchise" meaning elite qb. You appear to know its difficult but you keep posting like "just find it", heck their are drafts where there is no franchise qb much less your in position to get one.  What do you suggest 17 do while your finding your franchise qb?

 

You got a heck of a story and a heck of a football player, probably not top 10 qb, but I would root for him and realize he is going to have a bad pass, a bad series, heck maybe even a bad game.

Edited December 6, 2021 by TChaler70

[mistertim]

19 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Talk about what Heinicke is or isn't in the abstract gets hazy pretty quickly. The best way to have this conversation IMO is to put your hypothetical money where your mouth is via tangible decision points.

 

I've seen enough that - barring a drastic shift in the next five games - I'm ready to extend Heinicke using the Foles Bears contract as my comp: 3 years x $8M with a decent portion guaranteed and incentives to get him to the $10M AAV level if he wins games.

 

I'm also willing to trade up ~5 draft slots in the 1st round to get a coveted QB prospect, but I'm not interested in trading all the way up to the top 5 or paying big for a reclamation project or high-priced veteran.

 

Give Taylor some life-changing money and the starter role but take your shot on finding a top 5-10 guy via the draft if you can. But don't pay through the nose. The formula we're building can work, especially if Taylor improves even 10-15% on what we're seeing with more experience. Run the ball, move the chains, chew the clock, and let your stingy defense get you the ball back. It's like Gibbs Era football but re-fitted for the modern passing era. This can work.

 

We already gave him life changing money. He was sleeping on his sister's couch and now he's a millionaire. I don't really see any reason to rush to extend him right now. He's shown himself to be a capable NFL QB but it's not like he's pulling a Mahomes and absolutely shredding teams to the tune of 4 or 5 TDs per week.

 

At this point he's mostly a middle tier game manager NFL QB who can also make some plays with his legs when need be. And there's nothing wrong with that and it certainly isn't a bad thing to have, but it's also not a guy you need to move on to make sure you keep him or you'll either lose him or have to pay an insane amount later.

 

We have him for cheap for another year. He's played well enough this season so far to say he can be our starter next year (assuming we don't bring in another guy or draft a guy who we want to start immediately), and I think that's enough for now. I'm sure they'll reevaluate his contract at the end of the season but barring him suddenly turning into an All-Pro I'm guessing they'll put off re-signing him until next year.

[CapsSkins]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

We already gave him life changing money. He was sleeping on his sister's couch and now he's a millionaire. I don't really see any reason to rush to extend him right now. He's shown himself to be a capable NFL QB but it's not like he's pulling a Mahomes and absolutely shredding teams to the tune of 4 or 5 TDs per week.

 

At this point he's mostly a middle tier game manager NFL QB who can also make some plays with his legs when need be. And there's nothing wrong with that and it certainly isn't a bad thing to have, but it's also not a guy you need to move on to make sure you keep him or you'll either lose him or have to pay an insane amount later.

 

We have him for cheap for another year. He's played well enough this season so far to say he can be our starter next year (assuming we don't bring in another guy or draft a guy who we want to start immediately), and I think that's enough for now. I'm sure they'll reevaluate his contract at the end of the season but barring him suddenly turning into an All-Pro I'm guessing they'll put off re-signing him until next year.

 

I disagree. If Heinicke improves and has a significantly better season next year then he may be due a much bigger raise after 2022, either here or somewhere else.

 

If you extend him this summer, I think he'll take 3 x $8M (or something in the neighborhood). If you wait, he could very plausibly play his way into the $20M+ range. Garoppolo is at $27.5M AAV and Tannehill is at $29.5M. It's really not insane to think Taylor plays well enough next year to get close to those guys, and it only takes one team to offer that kind of money.

 

Fitzpatrick's $10M is coming off the books and it seems reasonable if not likely that Heinicke will be the starter next year. I think most people recognize his floor is high-end backup and he's somewhere in the range of a mid-tier starter, so I say pay him like one and lock him up for a little bit to get consistency and cost certainty at the position while building elsewhere.

 

Heinicke is likely never going to get Cousins-type money but we still don't want to play the Cousins game of waiting to sign him as his price tag keeps increasing, in Kirk's case well beyond his actual value (IMO). 

[TChaler70]

6 hours ago, RedskinsLegacy said:

We can also pretend he didn't lead us down the field to kick the game winning field goal, and that he hasn't put us on a 4 win roll and a chance to win the NFC East again.

 

Yea the "what ifing" is a little absurd. 

[Commander -JB-]

Heinicke has already earned an extra $750,000 for his 6 wins in which he has played 60% of the snaps (which is each game)

Edited December 6, 2021 by -JB-

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, TChaler70 said:

That was a hard hitting tough environment real football game and TH came through.

 

There are really some unrealistic expectations here, I mean people see him as only a one win max SB winner, cmon, I dont know crap about football but thats insane. Your just waiting for failure. If you believe you can put together a team around him and win a SB you do it, you dont replace him.

 

The other thing you see among all message boards not just here for all teams is the we need to draft a qb to get the "franchise" meaning elite qb. You appear to know its difficult but you keep posting like "just find it", heck their are drafts where there is no franchise qb much less your in position to get one.  What do you suggest 17 do while your finding your franchise qb?

 

You got a heck of a story and a heck of a football player, probably not top 10 qb, but I would root for him and realize he is going to have a bad pass, a bad series, heck maybe even a bad game.

 

Literally nobody is saying it's easy to find an elite franchise QB. Quite the opposite. We all know it's hard. What we're saying is that shouldn't mean you stop trying. You keep going until you find your guy. Some teams just get ****ing lucky.

 

The Packers have had a HoF QB under center for literally 30 years. Colts went from Manning to Luck. Luck didn't end up being a HoF type QB but he was very good. Chiefs rolled the dice on a guy with high upside in Mahomes while they had a decent QB in Alex Smith who they had just gone to the playoffs with and it paid off huge. Some teams hit, some miss. But that doesn't mean you stop trying and just be content with mediocrity.

 

The one max SB thing is purely a statistical artifact based on past middle tier QBs who have made it to the big game. They get there once and that's it. It's not a situation where I'm saying "Oh, he'll only get us to one SB so he's no good and we shouldn't keep him." I think it's incredibly unlikely he'll ever get to a SB, but as a middle tier QB, history says if he does, it will only be once.

[ThomasRoane]

7 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

 

He's not a bad QB. I'd even put him into mid tier starter right now. But you don't sustain success over 3, 5, 7+ years with a mid tier starter.

 

 

My sons are 23 and 21 years old.  They'd kill for 3 years of success!  Hell, even two years back to back would be nice. They've been to 7 games in the last 15 years.  Not once have the witnessed the WFT win in person.  So, just to go to a game where their team won for a change would be amazing!

 

It's like some of you guys have no idea what franchise you're rooting for.  You're like those old dudes at the bar in their frosted fifties mocking the 30 to 40 year olds because you think you can pull a gal like Scarlett Johannson.  

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I disagree. If Heinicke improves and has a significantly better season next year then he may be due a much bigger raise after 2022, either here or somewhere else.

 

If you extend him this summer, I think he'll take 3 x $8M (or something in the neighborhood). If you wait, he could very plausibly play his way into the $20M+ range. Garoppolo is at $27.5M AAV and Tannehill is at $29.5M. It's really not insane to think Taylor plays well enough next year to get close to those guys, and it only takes one team to offer that kind of money.

 

Fitzpatrick's $10M is coming off the books and it seems reasonable if not likely that Heinicke will be the starter next year. I think most people recognize his floor is high-end backup and he's somewhere in the range of a mid-tier starter, so I say pay him like one and lock him up for a little bit to get consistency and cost certainty at the position while building elsewhere.

 

Heinicke is likely never going to get Cousins-type money but we still don't want to play the Cousins game of waiting to sign him as his price tag keeps increasing, in Kirk's case well beyond his actual value (IMO). 

 

That's fine, we disagree. I think it's very unlikely they extend him this offseason. They have plenty of other guys to pay with extensions coming up.

 

If they truly think his ceiling is a mid tier QB then there's not much reason to overpay him or extend him at the moment, because it means he's not really far off from his ceiling now. If he becomes a FA he'd probably get interest, but nobody is going to open a bank vault for him.

 

If anything, they should be rushing to preemptively re-up McLaurin. He's basically the only superstar level dude on this team so I'd rather try to get that taken care of sooner rather than later.

Edited December 6, 2021 by mistertim