Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[ODU AGGIE]

Check out this pass to Logan Thomas at the 42 second mark. It would seem that TH can put some mustard on it and throw it on a rope when he needs to.

 

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Why so much attention on the names? The first sentence, I said “if it’s bothersome to some”, then let’s use Pennington and Tyrod Taylor. I use Wilson and Brees because those are names often brought up, which is to be expected, because those are guys us fans are familiar with and feel we can draw comparisons to. 
 

I’ll resign to fact I’m much more down on Wilson than most (top 10 guy versus top 5 is all I’m saying). Maybe because he’s been consistently atrocious against Washington over the years. He’s a dude you can shut down, especially as the offense over the years has trended away from being a legit dual threat, which he no longer is at a high level. 
 

I’ll stand on my view that Mahomes, Allen, and Jackson don’t  read the field at good to great level (subjective view). They are part of the new breed of QB that is read low to high or high to low, then scramble drill and be great. They require their coaches to provide rhythm through play calling not them reading and dissecting the defenses. Nah man, they’re not those dudes in terms of reading a defense… yet. Open to being proven wrong as I’ve said I’m in uncharted territory with these views. 
 

You appear to have come to a conclusion about Heineke, I haven’t. I’m rooting for the extreme anomaly and hope he’s the next Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, Rich Gannon, or Russel/Brees  Yes, Brees had a weak arm— it’s huge reason why he always struggled with interceptions and had three consecutive years in his prime of not making the playoffs. 

 

The attention on the names is because those names probably couldn't be farther apart if you tried. That's like saying "I feel like my car is a Ferrari, but if that bothers you then we can call it a Geo Metro."

 

Yes Brees and Wilson are very familiar...but so are Ferraris. That doesn't mean either of us have one.

 

As far as Wilson, that's fine if that's your opinion of him. Most differ there. There's very little doubt that he's a first ballot Hall of Famer, which carries just a bit of weight.

 

As far as Mahomes, Allen, and Jackson, I can agree on Jackson. He's definitely more of a high-low read then run guy. But Mahomes and to a lesser extent Allen definitely aren't. You can watch them play an see them go through multiple reads. Neither one is a one-read-and-run guy. However, they are part of a newer breed of QB who are extremely athletic and have the capability of making lots of plays with their legs. Heinicke is a bit as well, to a lesser extent. But unfortunately TH doesn't have the kind of talent that both of those guys do.

 

For my opinion of Heinicke, I've not made a decision about his whole season...I'm being patient there. But I have a pretty good idea what he's shown so far, which is where I agree with @Skinsinparadisethat he's a fringe teens QB who is a good game manager but not a top half of the NFL kind of guy. Now, if he suddenly lights it up and starts throwing for a ton of yards and TDs and big time throws for the rest of the season, that would change. But that's just not him at the moment.

[TChaler70]

From the outside looking in the fact that you guys are even having these discussions about this guy is fascinating. What a crazy story this is becoming I think the more people learn of it they arent going to believe it. I know the guys posting during the week are the hardcore guys but man I think I would sit back and enjoy it and I know most are especially after all the turmoil I see on the local news all the time. I am wishing this guy the best and I know I am following this. 

[lovemaskins]

Yeah it’s a great story and like another poster said, I’d definitely keep him on the roster. He should only develop and if he’s our floor as a QB then we’re okay as a franchise. Of course we should keep swinging for a Aaron Rodgers’s type QB but he should not leave our building for a long time. At worst we’ve found the franchise backup QB.

[wit33]

21 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

The attention on the names is because those names probably couldn't be farther apart if you tried. That's like saying "I feel like my car is a Ferrari, but if that bothers you then we can call it a Geo Metro."

 

The comparison to Russel from what I’ve seen is his spatial awareness and quicks with his legs. 
 

Are you saying Heineke is Geo Metro and Russel is Ferrari from running standpoint? I don’t think you are, but have chose to ignore the fact that’s been the comparison between the two by me and most everyone on this site. 

 

21 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yes Brees and Wilson are very familiar...but so are Ferraris. That doesn't mean either of us have one.

Brees had a weak arm and excelled. I wouldn’t get upset if Heineke were to look at Brees clips and throws he mastered to be effective with weak arm. I’d actually encourage it. 
 

Should Heineke not do that because he’s a Geo Metro

 

 

 

21 hours ago, mistertim said:

As far as Wilson, that's fine if that's your opinion of him. Most differ there. There's very little doubt that he's a first ballot Hall of Famer, which carries just a bit of weight.

 

For sure, I’m in the minority, but curious to see how his next few years unfold. He’s a hall of famer that might be headed towards getting traded at the tail end of his prime. 
 

Post rookie contract he’s done nothing of note in the playoffs. Respect to him, he generally gets there, but he’s part of an elite organization. At lease they were for the last 10 years. 

 

21 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

As far as Mahomes, Allen, and Jackson, I can agree on Jackson. He's definitely more of a high-low read then run guy. But Mahomes and to a lesser extent Allen definitely aren't. You can watch them play an see them go through multiple reads. Neither one is a one-read-and-run guy. However, they are part of a newer breed of QB who are extremely athletic and have the capability of making lots of plays with their legs. Heinicke is a bit as well, to a lesser extent. But unfortunately TH doesn't have the kind of talent that both of those guys do.

 

Not necessarily one read and run, more like, high 1) and low 2) vice versa, then play make. Not saying this is wrong, it’s the new way QBs get things done. Why wouldn’t they do that with their abilities, I just believe they fail to provide consistent rhythm to an offense at times (loaded statement that I own). Doesn’t surprise me both have experienced some struggles this year.  
 

Both are elite dudes. Curious to see how Josh Allen does against New England in the two upcoming games. He’s elite, he should dominate,  but I lean towards Pats shutting him down and both games being low score games. 

 

21 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

For my opinion of Heinicke, I've not made a decision about his whole season...I'm being patient there. But I have a pretty good idea what he's shown so far, which is where I agree with @Skinsinparadisethat he's a fringe teens QB who is a good game manager but not a top half of the NFL kind of guy. Now, if he suddenly lights it up and starts throwing for a ton of yards and TDs and big time throws for the rest of the season, that would change. But that's just not him at the moment.

I can careless about rankings and where a guy falls the order of QBs. Can the dude get it done situationally, lead men, be consistent, and in some be cheap… I’m all in. Still work to do, and as much it may seem I’m all in on Heineke, I’m not. I wouldn’t have been upset with Rivera if they benched him for Allen during the bye week. This recent run, he’s shown a whole another side that I  didn’t project at all—conposure, game management, patience. Combine those things with moxy, play making, confidence, and a fighting spirit… Washington might have something. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by wit33

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

The comparison to Russel from what I’ve seen is his spatial awareness and quicks with his legs. 
 

Are you saying Heineke is Geo Metro and Russel is Ferrari from running standpoint? I don’t think you are, but have chose to ignore the fact that’s been the comparison between the two by me and most everyone on this site. 

 

Brees had a weak arm and excelled. I wouldn’t get upset if Heineke were to look at Brees clips and throws he mastered to be effective with weak arm. I’d actually encourage it. 
 

Should Heineke not l do that because he’s a Geo Metro

 

 

 

 

For sure, I’m in the minority, but curious to see how his next few years unfold. He’s a hall of famer that might be headed towards getting traded at the tail end of his prime. 
 

Post rookie contract he’s done nothing of note in the playoffs. Respect to him, he generally gets there, but he’s part of an elite organization. At lease they were for the last 10 years. 

 

 

Not necessarily one read and run, more like, high 1) and low 2) vice versa, then play make. Not saying this is wrong, it’s the new way QBs get things done. Why wouldn’t they do that with their abilities, I just believe they fail to provide consistent rhythm to an offense at times (loaded statement that I own). Doesn’t surprise me both have experienced some struggles this year.  
 

Both are elite dudes. Curious to see how Josh Allen does against New England in the two upcoming games. He’s elite, he should dominate,  but I lean towards Pats shutting him down and both games being low score games. 

 

I can careless about rankings and where a guy falls the order of QBs. Can the dude get it done situationally, lead men, be consistent, and in some be cheap… I’m all in. Still work to do, and as much it may seem I’m all in on Heineke, I’m not. I wouldn’t have been upset with Rivera if they benched him for Allen during the bye week. This recent run, he’s shown a whole another side that I  didn’t project at all—conposure, game management, patience. Combine those things with moxy, play making, confidence, and a fighting spirit… Washington might have something. 

 

I'm not talking about running at all. I'm talking about the overall QB skill difference between Drew Brees/Russel Wilson and Chad Pennington/Tyrod Taylor. Those guys aren't even in the same galaxy. It just makes no sense as a comparison. As far as TH, if I had to make a comparison I'd say guys like Brees and Wilson are QB Ferraris and Heinicke is an MX-5 Miata. Middle of the road sports car and can get the job done, but certainly not a Ferrari (though to be fair, a hell of a lot cheaper than a Ferrari and can still get you from point A to point B well enough usually).

 

As far as Wilson in particular, he's had a bit of a down year, sure. But he's one season removed from being a legit MVP contender with 40 TDs and 13 INTs. He was hardly the main reason they didn't get further into the postseason in 2020.

 

As for high/low then take off for Mahomes and Allen, we'll just have to disagree. I've watched both of them go through multiple progressions and full field reads plenty of times before scrambling. Again, I think Jackson is more along the lines of the one read and run or high/low then run guys.

 

For rankings, I don't necessarily think it's the end-all-be-all, but it does carry some weight. At the moment I see Heinicke as a guy who can get it done when other cylinders are clicking (run game going well, defense not ****ting the bed), but not a guy who's going to be able to put the team on his back like more elite QBs can. And maybe that's good enough for now. But IMO it's not enough to get this team to be a perennial contender because you can't always count on those other cylinders clicking.

 

Again, that's unless he starts absolutely killing it over these last several games.

 

And maybe Ron is fine with that sort of QB play. But I get the feeling that he really wants that upper echelon QB...or at least a guy with that potential. He's basically said as much. But who knows, maybe he's changed his mind...but eventually his job is going to be on the line and that's going to probably hinge largely on how well he handles the QB situation.

[Captain Wiggles]

[Simmsy]

6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 sorry, I definitely missed that. I only read this thread occasionally.

 

That said, what a dumb premise. Nobody cares about draft position, once you're drafted. 

1. Not what I said. I didn't said gone, I said start. They are plenty of people on this board who continue to name people we should get as QB as if TH isn't going to start next year. He'll, there are people who still want Kyle Allen. Plenty in this thread see him as only a place holder. His numbers aren't astronomical, but they're pretty good and continue to get better. If he were a 1st round pick, no one would be talking about whether he should start or not.

 

2. Of course people care about draft position. Coaches give their sucky 1st rounders way more leeway to suck than a lower draft pick or an undrafted player. Fans seem to agree.

[mistertim]

30 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

1. Not what I said. I didn't said gone, I said start. They are plenty of people on this board who continue to name people we should get as QB as if TH isn't going to start next year. He'll, there are people who still want Kyle Allen. Plenty in this thread see him as only a place holder. His numbers aren't astronomical, but they're pretty good and continue to get better. If he were a 1st round pick, no one would be talking about whether he should start or not.

 

2. Of course people care about draft position. Coaches give their sucky 1st rounders way more leeway to suck than a lower draft pick or an undrafted player. Fans seem to agree.

 

1. I don't think it's necessarily a horrible thing for people to consider possible upgrades to Heinicke; and I don't think it's some sort of personal slight on the dude. I think most of what's been floated has been draft picks, not retreads. And the FO and coaches might see Heinicke as a placeholder as well (in fact from statements Rivera has made, it sounds like that certainly could be the case). He's a borderline middle of the road QB. Is it that hard to believe that the team might be interested in an upgrade?

 

2. Of course teams care about draft position. A high draft pick is a much bigger investment than a low rounder or a UDFA. Also why would it be surprising that a 21 year old 1st round rookie would get a longer leash than a 28 year old UDFA? Sure, Heinicke hasn't had much playing time before this season, but it's not like he's never walked on to an NFL field before. Whether you think it's fair or not, his leash is not going to be as long as a 1st round pick.

Edited December 2, 2021 by mistertim

[zCommander]

8 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Difference here is that whether you can get that super hot girl with all the intangibles isn't dependent on your looks, charm, or pocketbook. It's purely dependent on draft position. If you have a high enough pick (or can move up high enough) you can get that 9-10 range "girl".

 

The pretty face was about arm strength. Nothing more nothing less. 

[CTskin]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

For my opinion of Heinicke, I've not made a decision about his whole season...I'm being patient there. But I have a pretty good idea what he's shown so far, which is where I agree with @Skinsinparadisethat he's a fringe teens QB who is a good game manager but not a top half of the NFL kind of guy. Now, if he suddenly lights it up and starts throwing for a ton of yards and TDs and big time throws for the rest of the season, that would change. But that's just not him at the moment.

And this kind of wait and see approach is exactly how u let franchise qbs walk out of the building for a comp pick. Fortunately we have heinecke signed for another year, but after this season we need to make a decision on if he’ll be here for a while or not and act accordingly.

 

I’ve been a heinecke guy since I dove in way too deep after the panthers game last year. The cons are injury proneness and arm strength, but in my mind it doesn’t come close to outweighing the pros.

 

high football IQ, gets thru 5 reads in under 3 seconds, film rat, gym rat, unbelievable pocket presence and awareness, very athletic, and a natural leader. Not to mention you can tell he lives for clutch moments in the big games, unlike the folding lawn chair who I alluded to above.

 

turner needs to trust him, he’s capable of so much more than he’s being allowed to do.

[ThomasRoane]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

He's a borderline middle of the road QB.

 

 

It's telling that you make such a definitive statement without giving Heinicke the benefit of a whole season's sample size.  When many in your camp can't wait to come here to tamp down enthusiasm because the sample size is too small.    

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

It's telling that you make such a definitive statement without giving Heinicke the benefit of a whole season's sample size.  When many in your camp can't wait to come here to tamp down enthusiasm because the sample size is too small.    

 

I've already said that my view can change as the season progresses and I'm completely willing to do so with a whole season's sample size. But as of right now he's a borderline middle of the road QB. Not bad, not great.

[Kelvin Bryant]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I've already said that my view can change as the season progresses and I'm completely willing to do so with a whole season's sample size. But as of right now he's a borderline middle of the road QB. Not bad, not great.

It already has. If memory serves, you viewed him as a quality backup about a month ago. From that to lower mid-range starter is solid improvement.

[mistertim]

40 minutes ago, CTskin said:

And this kind of wait and see approach is exactly how u let franchise qbs walk out of the building for a comp pick. Fortunately we have heinecke signed for another year, but after this season we need to make a decision on if he’ll be here for a while or not and act accordingly.

 

I’ve been a heinecke guy since I dove in way too deep after the panthers game last year. The cons are injury proneness and arm strength, but in my mind it doesn’t come close to outweighing the pros.

 

high football IQ, gets thru 5 reads in under 3 seconds, film rat, gym rat, unbelievable pocket presence and awareness, very athletic, and a natural leader. Not to mention you can tell he lives for clutch moments in the big games, unlike the folding lawn chair who I alluded to above.

 

turner needs to trust him, he’s capable of so much more than he’s being allowed to do.

 

I'm sorry but at the moment I really don't think he's a "franchise QB". As I already noted, my opinion can change over the rest of the season. But as I also said, as of right now he's a borderline middle of the pack QB.

 

Yes we have him for another season on his current contract, but I don't think we're in danger of losing him to some ginormous contract like Kirk and I doubt we'd be offered much compensation for him in the way of draft picks. He can be fun to watch, is a baller, and seems like a great dude, but his limitations are real and I doubt most of the rest of the league sees him as a true franchise QB either.

 

At the moment to me he's sort like of a Gardner Minshew. Fun to watch, is a baller, seems like to a really cool dude, but has limitations and at the end of the day was traded for a 6th round pick.

 

Also...do you really really think Turner is holding him back? How? More importantly...why? I like Heinicke in general but it seems like every other week there's some excuse. Rivera, no supporting cast, OL (even though they're one of the highest ranked in the NFL), defense, now Turner?

 

6 minutes ago, Kelvin Bryant said:

It already has. If memory serves, you viewed him as a quality backup about a month ago. From that to lower mid-range starter is solid improvement.

 

That's true and a fair point. My opinon of him has gone up, though it's still going to take more to convince me that he's an above average or true franchise QB.

Edited December 3, 2021 by mistertim

[bowhunter]

10 minutes ago, Kelvin Bryant said:

It already has. If memory serves, you viewed him as a quality backup about a month ago. From that to lower mid-range starter is solid improvement.

Statistically, he might be just that. His stats might be on par with the guy getting a bunch of garbage yards. That's not Heinicke though. Every yard he gets is tooth and nail clawing. Moving and inspiring his teammates.  It's not fair to ignore HOW he gets those yards, which is often as he pushes his team forward. It's almost ridiculous how we FINALLY have a QB who inspires the league and we have a thread ****ing about how tight of a rope his passes are.

This is why we can't have nice things

[CTskin]

28 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm sorry but at the moment I really don't think he's a "franchise QB". As I already noted, my opinion can change over the rest of the season. But as I also said, as of right now he's a borderline middle of the pack QB.

 

Yes we have him for another season on his current contract, but I don't think we're in danger of losing him to some ginormous contract like Kirk and I doubt we'd be offered much compensation for him in the way of draft picks. He can be fun to watch, is a baller, and seems like a great dude, but his limitations are real and I doubt most of the rest of the league sees him as a true franchise QB either.

 

At the moment to me he's sort like of a Gardner Minshew. Fun to watch, is a baller, seems like to a really cool dude, but has limitations and at the end of the day was traded for a 6th round pick.

 

Also...do you really really think Turner is holding him back? How? More importantly...why? I like Heinicke in general but it seems like every other week there's some excuse. Rivera, no supporting cast, OL (even though they're one of the highest ranked in the NFL), defense, now Turner?

Hey I wasn’t a Kirk guy, but with the kind of money he’s making, it’s safe to say he’s viewed as a franchise qb (I didn’t say elite).

 

I don’t post enough for my opinion to be memorable, but I voiced my displeasure for turner plenty this off-season and I don’t want to derail this thread. The point is that the scheme lacks any bit of creativity, is ultra conservative and chunk plays are so rarely attempted. We have Antonio Gibson, a college wr, use him in the passing game.

 

dammit u got me to bite. The above paragraph was significantly longer a minute ago.

 

I do agree that where we stand right now, heinecke wouldn’t be commanding franchise qb money. But, after this season we need to know which direction we’re going with him because after next year he’ll be a FA and unlikely to be worth the tag. 

 

Glad to see your not just hater and your view has evolved. Cheers to him moving you further to the good.

[Kelvin Bryant]

39 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Statistically, he might be just that. His stats might be on par with the guy getting a bunch of garbage yards. That's not Heinicke though. Every yard he gets is tooth and nail clawing. Moving and inspiring his teammates.  It's not fair to ignore HOW he gets those yards, which is often as he pushes his team forward. It's almost ridiculous how we FINALLY have a QB who inspires the league and we have a thread ****ing about how tight of a rope his passes are.

This is why we can't have nice things

Point taken - he's a genuine leader. Personally, I'd start him until he's Brady's age just because I enjoy watching him play.

[zCommander]

Some people shouldn't be analysts.... Geno Smith > Taylor  

 

https://www.audacy.com/theteam980/sports/washington-football-team/ron-rivera-taylor-heinicke-can-be-a-full-time-nfl-starter

 

 

 

[tmandoug1]

Someone on Sirius XM NFL Channel said the late Gil Brandt used to say, "don't judge a QB until his 20th start". Everyone be quiet until then! 🤣🤣🤣

Edited December 3, 2021 by tmandoug1

[PartyPosse]

23 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Someone on Sirius XM NFL Channel said the late Gil Brandt said don't judge a QB until his 20th start. Everyone be quiet until then!

Someone should tell Gil he’s apparently dead.

[TK]

9 hours ago, TChaler70 said:

From the outside looking in the fact that you guys are even having these discussions about this guy is fascinating. What a crazy story this is becoming I think the more people learn of it they arent going to believe it. I know the guys posting during the week are the hardcore guys but man I think I would sit back and enjoy it and I know most are especially after all the turmoil I see on the local news all the time. I am wishing this guy the best and I know I am following this. 

Speaking of crazy stories, this is coming out soon...

 

 

Heinicke had to turn down the lead role cause he's been to busy going undefeated in November.  

[petey hodge]

2 hours ago, TK said:

Speaking of crazy stories, this is coming out soon...

 

 

Heinicke had to turn down the lead role cause he's been to busy going undefeated in November.  

 

I guess that even a borderline, middle-of-the-road quarterback can get lucky three games in a row! 

 

While all the Thursday morning critics can point out all the reasons they're not excited about TH,  the only thing that matters to me is results.  And currently, TH is winning games as if he figured something out over the bye. Hard to complain about how he's led, inspired, and motivated the team to do more and be more, but then again my wife complains about everything.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by petey hodge

[Califan007 The Constipated]

6 hours ago, zskins said:

Some people shouldn't be analysts.... Geno Smith > Taylor  

 

https://www.audacy.com/theteam980/sports/washington-football-team/ron-rivera-taylor-heinicke-can-be-a-full-time-nfl-starter

 

 

 

 

To be fair, that video and their opinions of Heinicke were apparently recorded after the 4th loss and right before the bye.

[Thinking Skins]

17 hours ago, mistertim said:

For my opinion of Heinicke, I've not made a decision about his whole season...I'm being patient there. But I have a pretty good idea what he's shown so far, which is where I agree with @Skinsinparadisethat he's a fringe teens QB who is a good game manager but not a top half of the NFL kind of guy. Now, if he suddenly lights it up and starts throwing for a ton of yards and TDs and big time throws for the rest of the season, that would change. But that's just not him at the moment.

Just out of curiosity, where do you put guys like Ryan, Stafford, Carr, Cousins, Jimmy G, maybe Carson Wentz. I honestly think Heinicke's expected output over the next few years is easily what they are doing. 

8	Taylor Heinicke	WAS	28	qb	11	10	5-5-0	244	363	67.2	2613	16	4.4	10	2.8	127	73	7.2	6.8	10.7	237.5	91.3	48.8	23	156	6.0	6.37	6.03	2	3

5	Matt Ryan	ATL	36	QB	11	11	5-6-0	256	379	67.5	2617	16	4.2	11	2.9	135	64	6.9	6.4	10.2	237.9	89.1	50.5	21	156	5.3	6.15	5.72	3	3

7	Kirk Cousins	MIN	33	QB	11	11	5-6-0	275	406	67.7	3013	23	5.7	3	0.7	138	64	7.4	8.2	11.0	273.9	105.3	57.1	15	114	3.6	6.89	7.66	2	3

19	Jimmy Garoppolo	SFO	30	qb	10	10	6-4-0	187	280	66.8	2342	13	4.6	6	2.1	107	83	8.4	8.3	12.5	234.2	99.1	58.5	18	113	6.0	7.48	7.45	1	1

10	Matthew Stafford	LAR	33	QB	11	11	7-4-0	266	400	66.5	3316	27	6.8	9	2.3	158	79	8.3	8.6	12.5	301.5	105.2	65.7	16	137	3.8	7.64	7.97	2	2

9	Derek Carr	LVR	30	QB	11	11	6-5-0	278	413	67.3	3414	17	4.1	9	2.2	142	61	8.3	8.1	12.3	310.4	97.3	57.3	25	152	5.7	7.45	7.30	1	3

12	Carson Wentz	IND	29	QB	12	12	6-6-0	250	398	62.8	2790	21	5.3	5	1.3	129	76	7.0	7.5	11.2	232.5	96.0	56.6	21	153	5.0	6.29	6.76

 

This is just one year but you're seeing similar completion percentage TDs (Cousins and Stafford are higher Jimmy G is lower), INTs (again Cousins is much lower) and YPA. 

 

The question becomes can he take over a game. Well, looking at 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives Heinicke has 2 and 3 (2 + 3 = 5) compared to 6, 5, 2, 4, 4  and 0 so he's right in the middle of the pack with them. He has the lowest QBR of them and the second lowest passer rating and I think a lot of that is showing that over that 4 game losing stretch when we had kicker problems he wasn't taking over games like he did in two of the first 4. Then the 3 wins have come from him just making wise decisions but also helping win the time of possession on those long game clinching drives. 

 

But I ask this question because I can easily see Heinicke having careers like these guys and the question becomes what would WFT fans think of that? Would we call Heinicke a failure, particularly if he's taking us to the playoffs? One other thing to note (and I know a team's record is not solely based on the QB) but look at all these QBs W/L record. 5-5, 5-6, 5-6, 6-4, 7-4, 6-5, 6-6. None of these guys are on dominant teams and none are on stinkers. Its interesting because Stafford's team roster wise is a world beater and Carr's team is full of speed everywhere. 

 

What I find interesting is that we (not you  and I but this board) were having discussions on bringing in Ryan and Stafford and possibly Carr in the offseason. And we're getting similar production out of Heinicke. What I think we're seeing is this guy's ceiling keeps constantly getting raised. Going from a guy who doesn't belong in the league, to a guy who could be a backup, to a guy who could be a good backup and spot starter, to a guy who could start for a bad team, to a guy who could lead a team to the playoffs. I'm not saying he'll ever be a top 10 QB but I think he can easily get to the top 15 range. I remember the board was having this same conversation about Cousins and now he's definitely at the head of that second tier. He'll probably never win anything but he's having an MVP like season (at least stats wise). All Heinicke needs to do is sure up the INT number and he'd have just about everything else right up there with some of the top guys in this category.