Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Here's a fun little hypothetical for y'all:

 

Let's say Heinicke plays similarly to the way he has thus far for the rest of the season. The offense regularly puts up 25-35 points basically every game. There are few Buffalo-type stinkers where he throws multiple picks. But also more Game-Winning Drives. Let's say he keeps up his ratio of Game Winning Drive to Underperformance at 2:1 or 3:1. The team finishes middle of the pack based on what happens to the defense, we have a Wild Card-race type of season.

 

Now the hypothetical: IMO, Heinicke feels like what we thought Fitz would be. The exciting FitzMagic/FitzTragic, you never know which one you'll get, smart player, receivers love him bc he gives them a chance, gunslinger mentality. Though we rarely saw him on the field, Fitzpatrick looked more like Alex Smith. Aging statue in the pocket. There are questions about Heinicke's limitations which we've all seen.

 

The staff valued Fitz at $10M/yr as a stopgap starter. If Heinicke is basically giving you Fitz-level results, do you give Heinicke a $10M/yr Fitz-type deal to lock him up for a few years and ride the wave while seeing if you can land a QB prospect you love? I don't think anybody else would give Heinicke that kind of money because so much of his game is knowing Scott Turner's offense. I think he'd sign it, and then meanwhile you got at the very least a pretty good stop-gap starter locked up and you no longer have this year-to-year QB carousel nightmare. You find a prospect you really covet, you can go get him and let him learn behind TH until he's ready. On the flipside, you don't need to force a pick on a QB if you don't love the prospect. And in the meantime, if Heinicke turns out to be the next Romo/Garcia/Flutie/whatever, then you already got him at a bargain cap hit.

 

The big thing to me is it seems like Heinicke's floor in this offense is the Fitz-Magic/Tragic excitement we thought we were getting for the $10M we paid Ryan.     

 

 

I would. Physically he's got limitations, but he also got something that most guys, even in the NFL don't have.

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

The running is what makes him lucky?

 

Go back and re-read what you said. You said luck in quotes and all. Don't forget about what you said about the Bills game either. 

[PartyPosse]

4 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Go back and re-read what you said. You said luck in quotes and all. Don't forget about what you said about the Bills game either. 

I put "luck" in quotes because, say, catches like the one Terry made aren't going to happen against good defenses. The ball to Terry in the endzone that landed incomplete "luckily" was an INC, but against a good team it's an INT. Taylor's taken advantage of defenses shooting themselves in the foot, but his QB skill is suspect. The dimension of running certainly helps him to be effective, but unless he starts getting other receivers involved it'll catch up to him real quick. Hopefully the high balls and inaccuracy improve as the season goes along, because if they don't it's going to be a rough ride for him and for his receivers.

Edited October 4, 2021 by PartyPosse

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Totally agree.

Not burying your head in the sand on the things that are warning signs of potentially unsustainable behavior is a far cry from hate.

It reminds me of all the people who Warned of our poor linebacker play and secondary that was full of gaping holes despite us being ranked number 2 overall in yards given up.

 

You make a good point there.  The only difference being, I actually do hate the back 7 of our defense.  🤣  I can't think of one player, outside of Jamin Davis who hasn't been here long enough to hate, that is worthy of anything but criticism.

 

But you're right, and I think that's what most level headed people being called haters are saying in regards to Heineke.  I mentioned in the gameday thread, he's kind of an enigma.  The concerns are legitimate.  He doesn't look like he should be putting up the stats and comeback wins like he is.  But he is doing it.  Whatever 'it' is, he certainly has it.  Now it's just kind of up to seeing if that 'it' is sustainable.  But it's definitely there.

 

 

 

 

[mistertim]

19 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

@mistertim Thanks!  I appreciate the link.  Hope you don't take any of my posts personal.  They're not meant to be.  Still respect you man.

 

Hmm 62.1 is in yellow so I'm guessing not great?  Not surprised about pass pro though.  He's one nasty dude there.   I mean that as a compliment too.  He crushes people.  

 

That said, give him a little help on run blocking with the center.  Once he gets a handle on his guy it's all over.  He just needs some help with those quick DTs.

 

Yeah I was a little surprised by both of his grades. Like @goskins10I thought that his run blocking grade was lower. I also knew he was decent in pass pro, but not that good. Of course PFF is not the end-all-be-all, but they do a pretty thorough job so I generally give a good amount of weight to their numbers.

 

As far as you and me, no worries on that end, brother. I do my best to never take stuff in this place personally. I really appreciate how much football knowledge and experience you bring to the table here and have plenty of respect for your opinions, even if we disagree on occasion.

Edited October 4, 2021 by mistertim

[Commander -JB-]

Taylor Heinicki is NICE.  That’s the best word to describe his play.  He’s just nice, makes plays when nothing is there and can freestyle.  Dude is not scared just a gutsy performer who just has the ability to step up in big moments.  I think if the defense can turn it around & play better and give Heinicke more chances with great field position this team can compete for NFC East crown.  If the defense continues to stink up the joint then I don’t think he can carry them because the schedule is brutal.  He’s legit and I was all in on him starting this season after the playoff game.  Made sense to go out and bring in a QB but I truly believe in Heinicke & think the job is his to keep.  I believe he will continue to perform.

[ThomasRoane]

57 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

TH's game is built on his ability to move. Taking that away and trying to make him a statue is a mistake, and I hope they learned from that.

 

Commentators kept calling is "street ball" and I'm fine with that analogy. It's also REALLY hard to coach against.

 

They need to just let him do his thing. It's not going to be pretty at times, and it's certainly not going to looks like Tom Brady back there.

 

But it's effective.

 

His style reminds me of a basketball player who just has the ugliest form on his shot.  You look at him and think there's no way this player should be on the court.  Yet the guy has a big heart and just find ways to manufacture points with smarts, hustle, and grit.  That's who TH is on a football field.  Rarely looks pretty but damn if he doesn't find a way to make things happen.  

Edited October 4, 2021 by ThomasRoane

[Commander PK]

I like Taylor a lot.  Sometimes people like him emerge and exceed all reasonable expectations.  People who had to work twice as hard to get where they are often appreciate it more.  He seems to understand how blessed he is to have this opportunity.  I hope he never forgets how fortunate he is to be here.  The opportunity he has to play in the NFL for a long time.  For me, he just has some intangibles that draft position and hype can’t account for.  Like sick leave abuse, you know it when you see it.  He has a fire in him that I can’t recall seeing out of a Washington QB in a long time.  

[Brixtion_skin]

4 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

I like Taylor a lot.  Sometimes people like him emerge and exceed all reasonable expectations.  People who had to work twice as hard to get where they are often appreciate it more.  He seems to understand how blessed he is to have this opportunity.  I hope he never forgets how fortunate he is to be here.  The opportunity he has to play in the NFL for a long time.  For me, he just has some intangibles that draft position and hype can’t account for.  Like sick leave abuse, you know it when you see it.  He has a fire in him that I can’t recall seeing out of a Washington QB in a long time.  

Agreed.

 

As Napolean said;"Ability is of little value without opportunity, I had rather my generals be lucky than able"

[ThomasRoane]

8 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

I like Taylor a lot.  Sometimes people like him emerge and exceed all reasonable expectations.  People who had to work twice as hard to get where they are often appreciate it more.  He seems to understand how blessed he is to have this opportunity.  I hope he never forgets how fortunate he is to be here.  The opportunity he has to play in the NFL for a long time.  For me, he just has some intangibles that draft position and hype can’t account for.  Like sick leave abuse, you know it when you see it.  He has a fire in him that I can’t recall seeing out of a Washington QB in a long time.  

 

Since Joey T.  Most posters are probably too young to remember.  Joey T may have had to look of a hollywood playboy QB but he was gutsy as hell and a fierce competitor.

[skinsfan93]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Did I say Heinicke had nothing to do with those? No.

 

But the reality is that both of them were more on the receivers than the QB. The ball to Terry was an up for grabs toss to 3 guys and Terry beat 2 of them and made an amazing play. The ball to McKissic was a good job of TH finding his check down, but McKissic did the heavy lifting and had an amazing YAC run and leaping TD.

 

And I think pretty much any QB would probably say the same thing on those plays if you asked them.

Again you’re wrong. Look at the replay a few posts down. The corner fell down and the safety was covering the other side of the field. Heinicke was late to the throw because of pressure but Terry only had single coverage initially. 
 

You seem like either a bitter fan who is half empty or a fan who is always expecting the worse. I kind of get it. I’ve been a fan for over 40 years and know the frustration we all have had over the last 30 years but let’s remain a bit optimistic that something special could be happening this year. 

[zCommander]

40 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I put "luck" in quotes because, say, catches like the one Terry made aren't going to happen against good defenses. The ball to Terry in the endzone that landed incomplete "luckily" was an INC, but against a good team it's an INT. Taylor's taken advantage of defenses shooting themselves in the foot, but his QB skill is suspect. The dimension of running certainly helps him to be effective, but unless he starts getting other receivers involved it'll catch up to him real quick. Hopefully the high balls and inaccuracy improve as the season goes along, because if they don't it's going to be a rough ride for him and for his receivers.

 

Did you watch the video posted above with a different angle. Terry made a great catch on a broken play as TH was getting chased/hit. When you have two good players the "luck" sometime just happens. It had nothing to do with how good the D back was. It was man to man anyway. The D back didn't turn around on time...too bad... Terry did. End of story. How many WR did he target yesterday? There were more than just Terry in case you were not paying attention to the game. Even Carter caught one for the 1st time. Oh yeah TH threw to him perfectly too. So don't sit there and tell me TH is a suspect and only throws to Terry. Even with Logan Thomas being hurt it didn't hurt TH and making plays with other players on the field. He worked with what he had in front of him. He did a really good job.  

 

As for the high balls, even Tom Brady last night had a quite a few (even threw a ball at one of his WR foot instead), sure he is over 40+ and he gets a pass with 7 SB rings. The point is not all throws a QB makes are going to end up in a completion. If that was the case then there would be a QB out there picked in the 1st round and is a stud sitting there with 100% completion rate. It doesn't happen. Try to live in reality and be logical.

 

The other point is chemistry. How many years has TH had with his WR to develop the chemistry that other season vets have? 4 games (one on a shorter week )? The measuring stick needs to be longer here and not shorter. Once you get past than that is when you realize TH is not bad as a QB. Can he do better, yes, but with time. Will he regress in a game, possibly, **** happens. But right now his WR trust him and are being really supportive of him. That is a really good thing to have and will make the so called long ride a shorter one and exciting at the same time. 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by zskins

[skinsfan93]

45 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Thanks. That's a much better angle on it. You're right, he was single covered. But the S was able to get to him because the play broke down and hence the throw was late (which isn't Heinicke's fault).

 

My conclusion with this new info is that 1) It wasn't as bad as I thought and 2) It was still not a very smart throw on 1st and 10 inside the 20 with 4 minutes left and being down by 8.

I mentioned that pass last night and you commented that the throw should have never been tossed, that great qbs would understand the situation and that we couldn’t afford a turnover at that time. Blah blah blah. 
 

Im tired of playing it safe and Heinicke shows guts to try and make a play. That kind of decision making may cost us some games but F IT, it’s nice to have our qb take the bull by the horns and go for the W! Didn’t we see that type of conservative plays from Gruden and Cousins?

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Again you’re wrong. Look at the replay a few posts down. The corner fell down and the safety was covering the other side of the field. Heinicke was late to the throw because of pressure but Terry only had single coverage initially. 
 

You seem like either a bitter fan who is half empty or a fan who is always expecting the worse. I kind of get it. I’ve been a fan for over 40 years and know the frustration we all have had over the last 30 years but let’s remain a bit optimistic that something special could be happening this year. 

 

Ok this is the last time I'm going to rehash this because it's getting old and I'm pretty much over it.

 

Terry was single covered, the CB fell down and he was crazy open at first. Heinicke had to scramble so when he put it up there the CB had recovered and the S had made his way over to the area too. Terry made an outstanding play and was able to track the ball and get to it first despite 2 guys being right around him. Heinicke didn't have anything to do with the CB falling down or Terry making an amazing play.

 

Heinicke did a good job of making it back to his check down when he couldn't find someone else (though I've seen someone say that Humphries was very open, but I'd need to see the play again). Kudos for going through progressions. He managed to get the ball to McKissic. Decent throw back across the field. But he had nothing to do with the actual TD. That was all McKissic.

 

I'm not being "bitter" about anything. Someone was talking about Heinicke making those plays, and I simply noted that the receivers had a ton to do with it. It happens.

 

I think Heinicke has overall played well. But there are some legitimate concerns with him and I'm not ready to start talking about how he's the future of the team at this point because IMO we still have a long way to go before we can really make any sort of decent analysis of that.

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

I mentioned that pass last night and you commented that the throw should have never been tossed, that great qbs would understand the situation and that we couldn’t afford a turnover at that time. Blah blah blah. 
 

Im tired of playing it safe and Heinicke shows guts to try and make a play. That kind of decision making may cost us some games but F IT, it’s nice to have our qb take the bull by the horns and go for the W! Didn’t we see that type of conservative plays from Gruden and Cousins?

 

As I've noted, it's easy to say this stuff in hindsight because it worked out. If it hadn't, then it would have been a stupid throw, a likely interception, and probably lost us a chance to win the game. 

 

Great QBs know how and when to take calculated risks. That wasn't a calculated risk. That was a hope and a prayer. It worked out. It was awesome. But that doesn't mean it was a great idea in that situation.

Edited October 4, 2021 by mistertim

[Morneblade]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

As I've noted, it's easy to say this stuff in hindsight because it worked out. If it hadn't, then it would have been a stupid throw, a likely interception, and probably lost us a chance to win the game. 

 

Great QBs know how and when to take calculated risks. That wasn't a calculated risk. That was a hope and a prayer. It worked out. It was awesome. But that doesn't mean it was a great idea in that situation.

 

Or a PI call, because the DB was all over Terry. Kinda like all the PI calls we got against us on 3rd and long when Matt went deep.

 

AGAIN, the pass looked worse because he was HIT while throwing. On the arm. Consider that.

[PartyPosse]

10 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Did you watch the video posted above with a different angle. Terry made a great catch on a broken play as TH was getting chased/hit. When you have two good players the "luck" sometime just happens. It had nothing to do with how good the D back was. It was man to man anyway. The D back didn't turn around on time...too bad... Terry did. End of story. How many WR did he target yesterday? There were more than just Terry in case you were not paying attention to the game. Even Carter caught one for the 1st time. Oh yeah TH threw to him perfectly too. So don't sit there and tell me TH is a suspect and only throws to Terry. Even with Logan Thomas being hurt it didn't hurt TH and making plays with other players on the field. He worked with what he had in front of him. He did a really good job.  

 

As for the high balls, even Tom Brady last night had a quite a few (even threw a ball at one of his WR foot instead), sure he is over 40+ and he gets a pass with 7 SB rings. The point is not all throws a QB makes are going to end up in a completion. If that was the case then there would be a QB out there picked in the 1st round and is a stud sitting there with 100% completion rate. It doesn't happen. Try to live in reality and be logical.

 

The other point is chemistry. How many years has TH had with his WR to develop the chemistry that other season vets have? 4 games (one on a shorter week )? The measuring stick needs to be longer here and not shorter. Once you get past than that is when you realize TH is not bad as a QB. Can he do better, yes, but with time. Will he regress in a game, possibly, **** happens. But right now his WR trust him and are being really supportive of him. That is a really good thing to have and will make the so called long ride a shorter one and exciting at the same time. 

 

 

No one is saying he's a bad QB. He's serviceable that's made some good things happen and made some really horrendous decisions that make it able for anyone with an objective opinion to take a moment. At this point he's our starting QB but anointing him anything beyond week to week at this point is foolish. 

 

I swear the quickness some fall in and out of love with players around here...

[Chris 44]

46 minutes ago, Brixtion_skin said:

Agreed.

 

As Napolean said;"Ability is of little value without opportunity, I had rather my generals be lucky than able"

Funny that I dont remember that quote from the movie.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Chris 44

[wit33]

27 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

As I've noted, it's easy to say this stuff in hindsight because it worked out. If it hadn't, then it would have been a stupid throw, a likely interception, and probably lost us a chance to win the game. 

 

Great QBs know how and when to take calculated risks. That wasn't a calculated risk. That was a hope and a prayer. It worked out. It was awesome. But that doesn't mean it was a great idea in that situation.

 

 

Not all directed at you. 

 

The NFL today seems to be trending towards requiring a team to score 30 points in 6-10 games a year to win enough to compete. Not sure Heineke gets to 30 plus points without being willing to make those throws. He 100% will lose a game taking a risk if he continues to be the starter for rest of the season. 
 

How would you define a calculated risk? All the great QBs make bad plays or trust their ability too much at times, but don’t let a bad play sway them from making the next great play. 

 

Im all in for playoffs every year, and careless about trying to develop Heineke, want him to be himself and go all out. Let chips fall where they fall this year.
 

No interest in playing it safe to preserve coaches and player’s jobs. 

[zCommander]

31 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

No one is saying he's a bad QB. He's serviceable that's made some good things happen and made some really horrendous decisions that make it able for anyone with an objective opinion to take a moment. At this point he's our starting QB but anointing him anything beyond week to week at this point is foolish. 

 

I swear the quickness some fall in and out of love with players around here...

 

Care to explain what horrendous decisions he has made? Please don't say he threw picks. Every QB does that. I am looking for what TH has done that is so bad and determinantal to the team?

 

if you had actually understood my response in the previous post then you would have read that there is nothing in that response that says anything about the future and beyond. So please don't just make up **** here or put words in my mouth. 

 

Also what quickness or who are you talking about here? It is not me if you are actually paying attentions to my posts. 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by zskins

[PartyPosse]

Just now, zskins said:

 

Care to explain what horrendous decisions he has made? Please don't say he threw picks. Every QB does that. I am looking for what TH has done that is so bad and determinantal to the team?

 

if you had read actually understood my response then you would have read that there is nothing in that response that says anything about the future and beyond. So please don't just make up **** here or put words in my mouth. 

 

Also what quickness or who are you talking about here? It is not me if you are actually paying attentions to my posts. 

Holy crap. Ok. Good talk. 

[zCommander]

9 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Holy crap. Ok. Good talk. 

 

That's all you got with your big talk... 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

And this sort of “luck” rarely happens against good teams. We saw that in the Buffalo game.

 

There area about 10 teams with defenses anywhere near as good as Buffalo's defense. We'll see how he does against the other 22 teams.

[PartyPosse]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

There area about 10 teams with defenses anywhere near as good as Buffalo's defense. We'll see how he does against the other 22 teams.

I would say Buffalo may have the best defense in the game right now, and while they weren’t necessarily the reason behind some of his questionable decisions they certainly knew how to take advantage of them, unlike Atlanta.

[NoCalMike]

The biiiish about physical limitations is that you can't coach them away.  You can coach away (along with more experience on the field) mistakes and bad judgement.   TH is a gamer and he has that killer instinct, but I would be lying if he doesn't remind me a bit of a more athletic version of Rex Grossman.   And I know that name elicits horrible reactions but Sexy Rexy was not a bad QB all the time.  He has his moments for sure, but ultimately his physical limitations mixed with his reckless throws put a ceiling on his potential.   Brett Favre is a good example of a player that played reckless at times but had the physical attributes to overcome the recklessness.  TH is not a finished product yet due to lack of experience as an NFL starter, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss some of his tendencies the more his resume builds.