Looking back at Kyle Smith's drafts -Updated

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 10/22/2020 at 12:20 PM, Warhead36 said:

I don't think people get how the league in general drafts. For just about any team, if you get even 2-3 solid starters out of a draft, that's huge. Some of you guys are talkin like there are teams out there that are drafting entire All Pro teams every year. If your 7th round pick even lasts more than like 2 years thats an A pick.

What he said.  Guys these last 2 drafts were really good.

[method man]

On 1/24/2021 at 12:46 PM, Darrell Green Fan said:

What he said.  Guys these last 2 drafts were really good.

 

From this draft, you have at least 3 guys who are starters - Young, Gibson and Curl (and that is without having a 2nd)

 

I also think that Charles will be a starter, at least at guard. Hudson may start as a WILL too at some point

[TheShredder]

The high 1st round picks have been hit or miss, with 2nd round collapse.  Hitting on 3rds is grade A, but Kyle Smith isn't as huge of a loss as many fans perceive if he moves elsewhere.  The fact he's grading out above average is a B.  I think that RR is trying to create the A-Team.

[joeken24]

On 10/21/2020 at 1:03 PM, Riggo-toni said:

 

Redskins 2017 draft pick

Jonathan Allen. Pick: Round 1, 17th overall. 

Average value for pick. Decent starter, but not a game changer.

Ryan Anderson Pick: Round 2, 49th overall. This one for me was a head-scratcher straight from the get-go. Disappointing

Fabian Moreau Pick: Round 3, 81st overall. Looks like a solid pick.

•  4. Samaje Perine. Ugh. Bust. In fairness, he has had one or two good games this year for the Bungles
• 5. Montae Nicholson. Had potential, but pea-sized brain. Bust
• 6. Jeremy Sprinkle. Not a world beater, but ok value for the 6th round
•  7. Chase Roullier. Excellent value pick. Absolute steal.
• 7 Robert Davis. Not all 7th rounders make a roster

 

2018

Round 1 DaRon Payne Very Good value - If it comes down to extending him or Allen, Payne gets my vote. Ioan man is still the best when healthy. Originally envisioned as a NT, Payne has been so much more.

 

Round 2, No. 59 overall: Derrius Guice, RB, LSU. We were all excited about this pick, but super bust. Definitely had the talent, but brittle and brainless.

Round 3, No. 74 overall: Geron Christian, OT, Louisville. Meh...has been serviceable this year.

Round 4, No. 109 overall: Troy Apke, S, Penn State. Ugh. Can't seem to put it all together.

Round 5 Tim Settle DT Solid rotational player, excellent value pick.

Round 6, No. 197 overall: Shaun Dion Hamilton, LB, Alabama. Average value for 6th round. We cut him, but adequate backup for a couple years is typical for 6th round.

Round 7, No. 241 overall: Greg Stroman, CB, Virginia Tech. About what you expect for 7th round.

 

2019

ROUND 1, PICK 15 (15th overall):

Dwayne Haskins, QB, Ohio State

Can't blame Kyle for this one IF it's true that this was Brucifer and El Dano's pick. If we had taken Sweat here and kept the two second rounders we traded for him, we might have someone like Elgton Jenkins at LG.  Superbust

ROUND 1, PICK 26 (26th overall):

Montez Sweat, EDGE, Mississippi State

Total stud. Likely evolving into an elite oass rusher. If they redid this draft, he might be a top 5 pick.

ROUND 3, PICK 12 (76th overall):

Terry McLaurin, WR, Ohio State Best value pick in years!!! And best WR we have drafted in decades.

ROUND 4, PICK 10 (112th overall):

Bryce Love, RB, Stanford

Gamble...still unknown. Not looking good so far.

ROUND 4, PICK 29 (131st overall):

Wes Martin, G, Indiana

Looks bad...real bad.

ROUND 5, PICK 15 (153rd overall):

Ross Pierschbacher, C, Alabama

Bust

ROUND 5, PICK 35 (173rd overall):

Cole Holcomb, LB, North Carolina

Good value for 5th round.

ROUND 6, PICK 34 (206th overall):

Kelvin Harmon, WR, North Carolina State

Still have high hopes for him.

ROUND 7, PICK 13 (227th overall):

Jimmy Moreland, DB, James Madison

Decent value for 7th

ROUND 7, PICK 39 (253rd overall):

Jordan Brailford, EDGE, Oklahoma State

Is he on PS?

 

2020

Round 1 Chase Young #2 overall DROY,

Obvious pick, but great nevertheless. Super stud.

Round 3 Antonio Gibson - 3rd round steal. Looks like a poor man's Marshall Faulk.

Round 4 Saahdiq Charles - injured this year, jury is still out. Remember Moses was IR his rookie season.

Antonio Gandy Golden - jury still out

Round 5 Keith Ismael and Khaleke Hudson jury is still out

Round 7 Kamren Curl - an absolute steal! 7th rounder who made all rookie team and has left everyone asking " who the **** is Landon Collins?"

James Smith Williams - too soon to tell, but got a half sack this year in limited playing time.

 

 

 

 

I think we take these names and create some type of illusion in our minds that Kyle has a good draft record. Besides it being a collaborative effort, (not just Kyles picks), these picks have not produced wins. That has to account for something. We'd also do ourselves a favor by maybe doing a deep dive into players taken after our picks. Mahomes was obviously a miss for us along with 9 other teams, but still. I will say there is promise. But like Doc Walkers always says, they ain't busted a grape. You see teams like KC, Balt, Pitt and the Patriot work the draft to championships. Just sayin' 

[redskinss]

6 hours ago, joeken24 said:

Mahomes was obviously a miss for us along with 9 other teams

We picked Jonathan Allen 17th overall the year Mahomes went 10th to the chiefs.

We weren't one of the 9 teams who passed on him.

[Burgold]

I guess the fundamental question is are we excited by the roster, it’s depth, and it’s potential?

 

Kyle Smith has been a big part of assembling this team for three years and has had a role for ten So, it’s probably not unfair to look at the state of the team and it’s direction and ask, “Are we confident.”

 

I feel pretty good about the team. I like it’s grit, fight, and think we have areas of real strength. That said, we also have done a pretty poor job of addressing known weaknesses. For example, we knew guard, left tackle, safety, linebacker, tight end, receiver, and wide receiver were weaknesses at the end of the 2019 season. 
 

From that perspective, the front office gets a mixed grade. Finding Kurl,  Schweitzer, Lucas, and Logan all helped, but wide receiver, free safety, and linebacker remain nebulous. Guard and tackle may be okay, but are the positions settled?
 

So, I’m conflicted between saying we did a good job acquiring talent and patching holes and the reality that part of the reason we had too many holes to patch in one off season is because for years our front office failed at their jobs. 
 

in other words, I can make an argument that Kyle has done well, but that it’s just as easy to say he hasn’t. 

[88Comrade2000]

He’s gone now; let’s focus on what the new guys will do.

 

Wish Kyle well in his new Atlanta gig.

[Burgold]

Agreed. Read an article in the Post today, Kyle wasn’t the only one. Looks like there were multiple front office firings. I guess Rivera was really unhappy with how the front office operated last year. 
 

I guess there’s time to reconfigure the front office before free agency and the draft, but that’s a lot of upheaval for a team that overachieved. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

 

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

Agreed. Read an article in the Post today, Kyle wasn’t the only one. Looks like there were multiple front office firings. I guess Rivera was really unhappy with how the front office operated last year. 
 

I guess there’s time to reconfigure the front office before free agency and the draft, but that’s a lot of upheaval for a team that overachieved. 

 

I don't know, it seems like really bad timing to lose 3 scouts and a VP of Personnel, basically one day before the Senior Bowl.

Unless those guys left us with a whole lot of homework they've accomplished on that.

[Fresh8686]

I think it’s telling that Tim Gribble was promoted to Director of College Personnel last year and survived the wave of firings this year. He’s the one working with Stokes to sift and analyze all the information they’ve compiled and build the board. Kyle Smith spoke very highly of Tim as well so I don’t feel too down on all the changes, so far at least. 

[joeken24]

4 hours ago, Burgold said:

I guess the fundamental question is are we excited by the roster, it’s depth, and it’s potential?

 

Kyle Smith has been a big part of assembling this team for three years and has had a role for ten So, it’s probably not unfair to look at the state of the team and it’s direction and ask, “Are we confident.”

 

I feel pretty good about the team. I like it’s grit, fight, and think we have areas of real strength. That said, we also have done a pretty poor job of addressing known weaknesses. For example, we knew guard, left tackle, safety, linebacker, tight end, receiver, and wide receiver were weaknesses at the end of the 2019 season. 
 

From that perspective, the front office gets a mixed grade. Finding Kurl,  Schweitzer, Lucas, and Logan all helped, but wide receiver, free safety, and linebacker remain nebulous. Guard and tackle may be okay, but are the positions settled?
 

So, I’m conflicted between saying we did a good job acquiring talent and patching holes and the reality that part of the reason we had too many holes to patch in one off season is because for years our front office failed at their jobs. 
 

in other words, I can make an argument that Kyle has done well, but that it’s just as easy to say he hasn’t. 

10 year....3-7 record. Kyle taking a lateral move to Atlanta means the rest of league thought much like Ron did. No Ashburn syndrome symptoms on my end.

[joeken24]

2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

I don't know, it seems like really bad timing to lose 3 scouts and a VP of Personnel, basically one day before the Senior Bowl.

Unless those guys left us with a whole lot of homework they've accomplished on that.

I think it's perfect timing. It's right at the senior bowl and there wasn't a lot of college football played this year anyway. Plus we really only took on one significant new scout. He comes from the Panthers and had a four year stint with Washington. So no real constraints IMO. Don hits the ground running. 

 

The other two is a Blesto and scout assistant respectively

 

 

 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

I have no idea how essential Kyle Smith or anyone else in the front office was to our unquestionable success in the past few drafts.

 

I also don’t know why RR elected to allow Smith and a majority of the previous f.o. brain trust to ignominiously exit stage left without so much as a wam bam thank you mam on the way out.

 

I do know that the fact that he allowed them to freely leave suggests that he didn’t view any of them as essential to the future success of this team. 

 

RANK CONJECTURE AND SPECULATION FOLLOWS:

 

What I believe is that RR thought the previous Redskins administration from top to bottom was a dysfunctional snake pit. Anyone that existed and thrived in that environment he likely viewed with more than a modicum of skepticism. Rivera used the last year to evaluate every former employee, including Kyle Smith,  carefully to determine whether or not they would fit into his long term plans for the team.

 

I don't think this decision had anything to do with Kyle’s apparently considerable talent evaluation capabilities or work ethic. I think it related more to deficits Rivera identified in Kyle’s interpersonal, organizational and leadership skills-  along with the stank of having been here under Bruce Allen. 

 

I also think the ready availability of people Rivera trusted and had worked with successfully for years was to Kyle’s disadvantage.

 

I do think that Rivera wants as clean a break with the team’s past as he can create. 

 

I support his decision, but my support or lack thereof  is an irrelevant triviality of no consequence whatsoever.

 

In a zero sum game like football the proof is always revealed in time— as Al Davis said “Just win baby!”

[Burgold]

I think you're on the right track @TrancesWithWolves. At least it resonates well.

 

I don't really have a problem with change. All of us have experienced a Washington outfit that has had way more failure and dysfunction over the last 5-10 years than good decisions. There is a part of me that wishes that Rivera would cast a wider net or had a bigger network from which to consider replacements. I'm not upset that Mayhew is getting a chance. While he does have some Lion's stink on him you can make the argument that his work led to their brightest period of success. Hurney seems like a comfort blanket though. And though the coaching seemed fine last year, especially on the D side, Rivera's front office and coaching staff does lean hard on the familiar.

[Darrell Green Fan]

From the Post article:

 

“You could see at a very young age that Kyle left no stone unturned relative to evaluating somebody both on and off the field,” former Washington coach Mike Shanahan said. “He was one of the best I had been around. ... People would always ask me about Kyle, and I’d say there’s no way they would ever let him out of the building — and if they do, they’re complete idiots.”

[Malapropismic Depository]

People can mock me for bemoaning the loss of KS, but whoever does that, I would gladly take them up on a bet, that KS becomes a GM somewhere, and a very good one.

I just don't get what caused the fallout between Rivera and KS. It's not for lack of talent with KS.

Had to be some kind of friction

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

From the Post article:

 

“You could see at a very young age that Kyle left no stone unturned relative to evaluating somebody both on and off the field,” former Washington coach Mike Shanahan said. “He was one of the best I had been around. ... People would always ask me about Kyle, and I’d say there’s no way they would ever let him out of the building — and if they do, they’re complete idiots.”

Sure but this is also the same guy that put his reputation on the line for John Beck.

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Sure but this is also the same guy that put his reputation on the line for John Beck.

 

 

I so tired of this comment. He said what he said because Beck was his best option at the time, or maybe he believed it. Everyone is wrong about a player, this hardly discredits Mike Shanahan's resume or reputation.  

[joeken24]

8 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

From the Post article:

 

“You could see at a very young age that Kyle left no stone unturned relative to evaluating somebody both on and off the field,” former Washington coach Mike Shanahan said. “He was one of the best I had been around. ... People would always ask me about Kyle, and I’d say there’s no way they would ever let him out of the building — and if they do, they’re complete idiots.”

I take Mike's opinion with a grain of salt. I like Kyle, but I don't feed into public comments. When is the last time you've heard a coach or anyone in sports say another guy was a piece of ****? I'm not saying Kyle was. Seemed like a good dude. I'm just saying public comments are for the public. If Kyle was the best, he'd be trending on NFL.com. Kyle got replaced by Stokes who was involved in drafting damn near the entire legion of doom. He played the game and already understands what Ron is looking for (coming from the Panthers). We'll see. 

But Mike is not relevant at all IMO.

[joeken24]

36 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

People can mock me for bemoaning the loss of KS, but whoever does that, I would gladly take them up on a bet, that KS becomes a GM somewhere, and a very good one.

I just don't get what caused the fallout between Rivera and KS. It's not for lack of talent with KS.

Had to be some kind of friction

I think it was just about comfort/familiarity. Ron spent the first year gaining a feel for what he had. Leadership will always bring in their guys if they're smart. Nothing personal. Just business. Don't feel bad about being mocked. Fact is nobody can predict the future. So you could be right. But right now, nobody in the NFL has opened their eyes publicly to what you see in Kyle other than Mike and Bruce. Neither of which are decision makers anywhere because of their own performance. I really don't think there was a fallout other than maybe KS being part responsible for poor teams over the years. As much as we get on Hurney and Mayhew, consider Kyle. We were only 3 games away from a 0-16 season with all of Kyle's picks. We still don't know what this years picks will do. We also don't know if Kyle was completely responsible for last year's draft. Stokes was brought in with Ron. Ron could have very well confided in Stokes (along with Hurney) more so than Kyle in last year's draft. Who knows?

[PartyPosse]

8 hours ago, redskinss said:

We picked Jonathan Allen 17th overall the year Mahomes went 10th to the chiefs.

We weren't one of the 9 teams who passed on him.

Considering KC moved up from 25 to 10, yeah we passed on him. 

[redskinss]

2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Considering KC moved up from 25 to 10, yeah we passed on him. 

Ya gotta twist yourself up pretty hard to see that logic but sure I guess.

by that standard every player in the league is passed on by every team since a trade Is almost always possible.

[Burgold]

I think most of us hoped/thought Kyle was going to be the guy. On paper, we’ve had some pretty good drafts the last few years. Now, most of us are hoping Ron is right. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

15 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I think most of us hoped/thought Kyle was going to be the guy. On paper, we’ve had some pretty good drafts the last few years. Now, most of us are hoping Ron is right. 

 

This is my entire point. Bruce was the boss until 2019, from that point on even with the owner hijacking the first round pick Kyle's group put up 2 damned good drafts. If L. Charles develops into a starter 2020 will look like a great draft.   

[PartyPosse]

23 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Ya gotta twist yourself up pretty hard to see that logic but sure I guess.

by that standard every player in the league is passed on by every team since a trade Is almost always possible.

I get hindsight is 20/20 but, am I'm not knocking the Allen pick, but we were a team with a disgruntled QB on his second FT and there were a couple of gem QBs available in the draft. I get the smell of the RG3 trade was still fresh but if the team wanted a new QB they could have gotten one. On the bright side, at least we didn't draft Kizer like I wanted.