Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[jnhutchi3]

2 hours ago, SpacePenguin said:

 

I honestly enjoyed watching Kirk Cousins lose games more than I enjoy Alex Smith winning them. I am not even joking. I hate the way he plays that much.

 

Anyways, whatever. I don't agree with the intangibles BS, but it doesn't even matter. Maybe he is the all knowing embodiment of risk management, but he's gonna be 37, has one robot leg and can barely run. I think his time is nearly over whether he retires or not, so the whole discussion is moot. If people honestly think he's up for another 16 healthy games next season, then I'm speechless. Need a QB that is better than league average to win anything worthwhile, and, given Alex's age, need one soon.

 

Am I crazy?

 

This has got to be one of the most moronic things I've read on here.  I watched Cousins throw for 300 yards many times.  And then he would throw that 1 boneheaded interception that cost Washington the game.  I definitely didn't enjoy it.   

 

Stats are meaningless.  The only stats that matter for QBs are wins and losses and interceptions.  Smith is a far superior QB than Cousins, even after his broken leg.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I dunno. They seem super supportive but after what he went through and almost dying, I wonder where his priorities lie if he's willing to go back out there and put himself in the same situation. Even when on IR he was still in the box with Dan and down on the field. He seems like football is and always will be his first love but that's just my humble opinion based on what I see.

 

Keim who is often right give a strong vibe that addressing QB is a strong desire in the off season.  He's not alone on that.  What's yout take on this?  Is it his sources are misleading him on it?

[PartyPosse]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Keim who is often right give a strong vibe that addressing QB is a strong desire in the off season.  He's not alone on that.  What's yout take on this?  Is it his sources are misleading him on it?

Not at all. I'm just giving my opinion that it seems that Smith's priority is football above all else. I don't doubt the team would like to upgrade at the position but I think their gameplan and thought process is very heavily influenced on what Smith ends up doing. I don't have any insider info. Just my two cents.

[jnhutchi3]

37 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

No but they were playing very well at the time.  He was not a factor in the wins, he just didn't turn them into losses. There's a difference. 

 

LOL....whatever that means.  The QB is a factor in virtually every win and every loss.   You can't separate the wins from the losses.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

41 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

So why did they lose 5 of the next 6 if they were playing very well and QB was not a factor in the wins? Surely Josh Johnson or  Sanchez would have been at least serviceable, no?

 

No they were horrible. You can't win in this league with Mark Sanchez or Josh Johnson.

 

But I'm tired of arguing Alex Smith. What he has accomplished is simply amazing, he is without a doubt the Comeback POY.  I'm very upset that he is out on Sunday and our QBs will be Dwanye Haskins and something called Taylor Heinicke. We have a real shot to win the division and Alex Smith gives us the best chance. 

1 minute ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

LOL....whatever that means.  The QB is a factor in virtually every win and every loss.   You can't separate the wins from the losses.  

 

Can you please do me a favor and stop quoting me?  I have already explained I am no longer interested in debating this topic with you.  

[jnhutchi3]

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

No they were horrible. You can't win in this league with Mark Sanchez or Josh Johnson.

 

But I'm tired of arguing Alex Smith. What he has accomplished is simply amazing, he is without a doubt the Comeback POY.  I'm very upset that he is out on Sunday and our QBs will be Dwanye Haskins and something called Taylor Heinicke. We have a real shot to win the division and Alex Smith gives us the best chance. 

 

Can you please do me a favor and stop quoting me?  I have already explained I am no longer interested in debating this topic with you.  

 

I can see why.  You make no sense.  Like your comments about Smith in San Francisco earlier.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Not at all. I'm just giving my opinion that it seems that Smith's priority is football above all else. I don't doubt the team would like to upgrade at the position but I think their gameplan and thought process is very heavily influenced on what Smith ends up doing. I don't have any insider info. Just my two cents.

 

My point is the vibe I get about this isn't hey we got a really nice couch in our living room but if we can get an even nicer one -- lets upgrade.  It's more we need to seriously go shopping for a new couch in the off season. 

 

If so, it doesn't give me the vibe that they internally think the current horses take them to the big dance.  

[kfrankie]

If it hasn't been said already, Alex Smith as the starter, and trade up to get Trey Lance in the draft (assuming we pick around #15, may need to move to like #10). 

[KillBill26]

23 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

This has got to be one of the most moronic things I've read on here.  I watched Cousins throw for 300 yards many times.  And then he would throw that 1 boneheaded interception that cost Washington the game.  I definitely didn't enjoy it.   

Haskins will give us the same thing, except he will throw for 130 yards before the boneheaded interception.  And he will already have 1 or 2 boneheaded plays under his belt.  Haskins makes Cousins look like an all pro.

 

FYI  I realize you were debating cousins vs smith.   I just have absolutely no faith in haskins.

Edited December 18, 2020 by KillBill26

[PartyPosse]

10 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

No they were horrible. You can't win in this league with Mark Sanchez or Josh Johnson.

This is all I'm going to say (or ask?) because I'm also tired of this discussion. 

 

If Smith did not get injured that year, how many of the remaining 6 games do you think we would have won?

[jnhutchi3]

Just now, KillBill26 said:

Haskins will give us the same thing, except he will throw for 130 yards before the boneheaded interception.  And he will already have 1 or 2 boneheaded plays under his belt.  Haskins makes Cousins look like an all pro.

 

No argument from me there.  I just don't buy into the bs that a QB has to throw for 300 yards per game to be good.  Otherwise, it's not a "real win".

 

I would take Smith over Cousins and Stafford any day.

[Spaceman Spiff]

7 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

This has got to be one of the most moronic things I've read on here.  I watched Cousins throw for 300 yards many times.  And then he would throw that 1 boneheaded interception that cost Washington the game.  I definitely didn't enjoy it.   

 

Stats are meaningless.  The only stats that matter for QBs are wins and losses and interceptions.  Smith is a far superior QB than Cousins, even after his broken leg.

 

Much like stats in MLB have fallen under a new microscope and pitchers like deGrom can win a Cy Young with only 11 wins, I don't believe QB wins and losses mean anything.  While the QB is the most important player on the field, there are several other factors that play a part in a football game.  I'm not trying to turn this into a Kirk thread, Lord knows we've had enough of those over the years.  But I think Kirk would be looked at much differently if he had a good defense to work with.

 

Much like a Major League Baseball pitcher can go out, give up 5 runs while his team scores 10 and get a win, a QB can have a bad game and his team can still win despite that.  Look no further than last week.  Make no mistake, that game gives Alex Smith (pretty sure he gets credit here) another win in his column.  Did he deserve it?  Hell no.  If the win went to Haskins, did he deserve it?  Absolutely not.

 

That MLB pitcher can go out and throw 9 innings of two run ball but if his team can only score 1 run, he's a tough luck loser.  That SHOULD be good enough to win a game.  As you mentioned, Cousins threw for 300 yards many times but then would invariably throw that boneheaded interception.  Was the boneheaded interception the only reason the Skins lost that particular game?  Or is it easier to point to that particular instance and overlook the other reasons that they didn't win?  

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

This is all I'm going to say (or ask?) because I'm also tired of this discussion. 

 

If Smith did not get injured that year, how many of the remaining 6 games do you think we would have won?

 

Hard to say but let's not forget the injuries that riddled that 2018 team.  We are after all discussing our Washington Redskins and most everyone knows how that would eventually turned out.  They were never as good as that 6-3 record, it would have all evened out in the end.  

 

Let's move on OK? 

[jnhutchi3]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Much like stats in MLB have fallen under a new microscope and pitchers like deGrom can win a Cy Young with only 11 wins, I don't believe QB wins and losses mean anything.  While the QB is the most important player on the field, there are several other factors that play a part in a football game.  I'm not trying to turn this into a Kirk thread, Lord knows we've had enough of those over the years.  But I think Kirk would be looked at much differently if he had a good defense to work with.

 

Much like a Major League Baseball pitcher can go out, give up 5 runs while his team scores 10 and get a win, a QB can have a bad game and his team can still win despite that.  Look no further than last week.  Make no mistake, that game gives Alex Smith (pretty sure he gets credit here) another win in his column.  Did he deserve it?  Hell no.  If the win went to Haskins, did he deserve it?  Absolutely not.

 

That MLB pitcher can go out and throw 9 innings of two run ball but if his team can only score 1 run, he's a tough luck loser.  That SHOULD be good enough to win a game.  As you mentioned, Cousins threw for 300 yards many times but then would invariably throw that boneheaded interception.  Was the boneheaded interception the only reason the Skins lost that particular game?  Or is it easier to point to that particular instance and overlook the other reasons that they didn't win?  

 

 

it's amazing how this "good defense" only appears to show up when Smith is playing over the past couple of years.  Very strange indeed.  But it must be a coincidence, of course.

 

Turnovers are almost always the biggest factor in wins/losses.  The more interceptions that a QB throws, the less likely it is his team is going to win.

 

Hence, why Brett Favre is the most overrated QB in NFL history.  

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Hard to say but let's not forget the injuries that riddled that 2018 team.  We are after all discussing our Washington Redskins and most everyone knows how that would eventually turned out.  They were never as good as that 6-3 record, it would have all evened out in the end.  

 

Let's move on OK? 

 

It was 6-4.  He was given the loss officially for the Texans game as he should have been, they were behind and he played poorly that day before the tragic injury.    But he was certainly better than Colt and ditto the out of the league at the time players who came next. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

25 minutes ago, kfrankie said:

If it hasn't been said already, Alex Smith as the starter, and trade up to get Trey Lance in the draft (assuming we pick around #15, may need to move to like #10). 

Yep, this is the correct answer.

7 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

This is exactlly why I think we sign Cam Newton. If we keep Allen, sign Cam and draft a rookie we have TWO QB's in the barn who know the system. I AM NOT PUSHING FOR CAM but I believe RR, Turner and Cam are gonna make this happen. Remembering back on RR's comments on why he didn't pursue Cam this year you could almost hear regret in his voice. Also, signing Cam would cost us no draft picks assuming NE doesn't franchise tag him which is almost a given. Looking at all of our options, and seeing how good this defense is going to be in 2021, I am now about 75% certain that RR will invite Cam Newton to Washington. I believe the development of Gibson also increases the likelihood of Cam coming. We have our McCaffery now we just need our QB. 

this I also relate to. Cam looks done.....but, if Rivera knew Haskins was gonna be piss poor then Cam would be here in 2020. I agree actually, Rivera will regret not signing Cam.

Edited December 18, 2020 by UK SKINS FAN 74

[PartyPosse]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It was 6-4.  He was given the loss officially for the Texans game as he should have been, they were behind and he played poorly that day before the tragic injury.    But he was certainly better than Colt and ditto the out of the league at the time players who came next. 

Not making excuses because Alex was bad that game but man I’m looking at the box score and the talent we had at receiver makes what we have now seem like the Greatest Show On Turf. Trey Quinn, Doctson, Michael Floyd, Mo Harris.

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

it's amazing how this "good defense" only appears to show up when Smith is playing over the past couple of years.  Very strange indeed.  But it must be a coincidence, of course.

 

Turnovers are almost always the biggest factor in wins/losses.  The more interceptions that a QB throws, the less likely it is his team is going to win.

 

Hence, why Brett Favre is the most overrated QB in NFL history.  

 

I don't think anyone who really knows football puts Brett Favre high on a list of all time QBs.  

[Burgundy Yoda]

Just thought I would point out that the defense doesn't actually play better with Alex. They're just on the field a heck of a lot less because Alex understands how to move the sticks. It feels like a miracle any time Dwayne gets a first down. 

[PartyPosse]

5 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I don't think anyone who really knows football puts Brett Favre high on a list of all time QBs.  

I would take Brett Favre today over Dwayne Haskins.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I don't think anyone who really knows football puts Brett Favre high on a list of all time QBs.  

John Madden would like a word.  

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Not making excuses because Alex was bad that game but man I’m looking at the box score and the talent we had at receiver makes what we have now seem like the Greatest Show On Turf. Trey Quinn, Doctson, Michael Floyd, Mo Harris.

 

Weapons were meh.  Defense and running game is what drove that team at least for awhile.  Peterson was fun that season.

[PartyPosse]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Weapons were meh.  Defense and running game is what drove that team at least for awhile.  Peterson was fun that season.

That was the beginning of the end for Guice.

[ExoDus84]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So Alex Smith was just ruled out for this Sunday. 

 

Oof.

 

Trying to beat Seattle with Dwayne Haskins back there? Even with Seattle's bad defense, that's a surefire L.

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

That was the beginning of the end for Guice.

 

Guice was out all season.  It was Peterson's show who was unbelievable.   I was at the first game in Arizona that season which was the surprise coming out game for Peterson.  Many thought he was spent before that.  

Edited December 18, 2020 by Skinsinparadise