Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Rufus T Firefly]

7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Why wouldn't Dalton be a good mentor for a rookie? Do you know something about him that we don't? 

I don't know that he wouldn't be a good mentor, but I have more reasons to think he wouldn't than that he would. He doesn't play smart and has always made too many dumb mistakes, which doesn't make me think of him as the guy you want teaching, but it's possible he could be. The reports from Cincy last year indicated that he basically whined when he was benched for Ryan Finley, so that doesn't seem like a mentor. He publicly complained that he wanted out of there for a chance to start and now he's indicating the same in Dallas. There's nothing wrong with a guy wanting to start, of course, but why would you think that guy is interested in spending his time helping out youngsters?

 

My bigger point, though, is why bring in Dalton to be a mentor and let Smith go? Everyone who has been near Smith has praised him in that role, and he'll likely cost less. I could see letting Smith go and bringing in Fitzpatrick, who has also been praised in that role, is a better player at this point, and seems more durable. But Dalton? Why?

[Koolblue13]

Who gives a **** about a pretend mentorship, we have actual positional coaches for that ****. 

[Renegade7]

24 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Over under on number of new pages in this thread before we have a new quarterback is 200.

I'm taking the over.

 

@Koolblue13 that means its gonna be hot again 🔥

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

@Koolblue13 that means its gonna be hot again 🔥

God damn it, it already is.

[Rufus T Firefly]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Who gives a **** about a pretend mentorship, we have actual positional coaches for that ****. 

Well many, many pro players attribute their development to veteran player mentors, but I guess no one told them that Koolblue13 has said they are wrong and those things don't mean anything. I'll alert the media. 

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Well many, many pro players attribute their development to veteran player mentors, but I guess no one told them that Koolblue13 has said they are wrong and those things don't mean anything. I'll alert the media. 

Like that famous Farve to Rodgers mentorship? 

 

I'm sure it's valuable to have someone around who's done it before, but it's totally overblown. Why not keep Smith as a mentor then? He's the best around. Was great for Haskins.

 

So yeah, go tell the media that Andy ****ing Dalton is going to take a valuable roster spot to teach the practice squad rookie about what it's like to suck then bounce around the NFC East.  

[seantaylor=god]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm not buying Texans position of power in this negotiation.   And wasn't this Matt's first time getting hurt like that?  It happens, beggers can't be choosers, Watson holds the cards here, not his front office.  At least try the offer, hes a pro bowl player, again, injuries happen.

I could not disagree more on Texans’ leverage. Watson is the most respected, talented player on the team and plays the most important position. He’s a QB and team captain. The Texans have no leverage. I hope they play around and pull a Bruce Allen, because if they don’t deal before draft and teams use their picks and draft QBs they are getting maybe 2 firsts and 2 seconds, at best. But if they take Matt and 2 firsts from us I’ll do backflips. And I think if Jon Allen rejects our LTD (and our perception of his value versus his perception of his value are too far apart) I’m trading him so we don’t lose him in FA.
 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by seantaylor=god

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

I could not disagree more on Texan’s leverage. Watson is the most respected, talented player on the team and plays the most important position. He’s a QB and team captain. The Texans have no leverage. I hope they play around and pull a Bruce Allen, because if they don’t deal before draft and teams use their picks and draft QBs they are getting maybe 2 firsts and 2 seconds, at best. But if they take Matt and 2 firsts from us I’ll do backflips. And I think if Jon Allen rejects our LTD (and our perception of his value based his perception of his value are too far apart) and trading him so we don’t lose him in FA

 

Aye, so we agree Houston is screwed and we will be too if we dont package someone on the dline.

 

@Koolblue13 we have a glut at this position and defense became nasty without Matt.  Its one place we can afford to lose someone and survive, we jus proved that with Matt getting hurt.

[JoggingGod]

Allbright was also sure Watson getting traded wouldn't be discussed. He's an idiot.

Edited February 2, 2021 by JoggingGod

[Renegade7]

19 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Well many, many pro players attribute their development to veteran player mentors, but I guess no one told them that Koolblue13 has said they are wrong and those things don't mean anything. I'll alert the media. 

 

Haskins taught me a lot too, like sometimes im wrong.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Aye, so we agree Houston is screwed and we will be too if we dont package someone on the dline.

 

@Koolblue13 we have a glut at this position and defense became nasty without Matt.  Its one place we can afford to lose someone and survive, we jus proved that with Matt getting hurt.

I'm not getting rid of the only Temple player on this team. Iaon stays unless we draft Pitts. My mind is made up. Sorry.

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Haskins taught me a lot too, like sometimes im wrong.

Ouch. Same.

[Mr. Sinister]

This quarterback talk gets more and more violent by the day. I can accept wanting to shoot your wad on DeShawn Watson and hoping for the best, but Andy Dalton??? No, hell no.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I rather the franchise operate like a small business with great agility and ability to adapt to the ever changing external environment. This will allow the organization to engage in foresight, be opportunistic, and identify/be early on trends. Point of view being, every situation should be looked at independently, then determine the perceived value of that independent variable has in the current and long term system. 
 

 

There are some differences with the business world and some similarities.  I have a financial planning certificate.  I run by own business.  Back in college i was a teacher's assistant in stats.  Part of my job is to explain surveys/stats to clients and how to look at the landscape without being overly impinged by emotion so its part of my business to stay anaylitical.  So this isn't a foreign conversation for me. 

 

Where the NFL is different from some businesses and even other sports is there is a big time overriding variable that affects the bottom line.   i an a big Premier League fan and its interesting to read the UK's take on the NFL.  And among their points is the NFL is a weird sport in that its so dependant on one guy.    If you don't have that one guy there is a good chance your team isn't that good. They feel their sport is much more balanced and less hinged on having one key player. 

 

As prudent for example as Warren Buffett is as an investor, he still these days has almost 50% of his portfolio in Apple.  He is placing big bets on one front.  NFL is similar on the QB front.   With some businesses balance is everything.  In life balance and prudence is cool and smart.  Arguably its not the case with the NFL.  

 

To me the idea of hey just wait until your roster is stacked and then the Qb will be there for the taking comes off naive and pie in the sky versus prudent.  But that's my perspective and point of view.   Doesn't mean I am right.   So that's my way of saying I think both sides of this debate i find emotional but in a different form that's all.   And the emotional is all in good spirits on both sides of the debate. 

 

Both groups IMO are optimisitc and pessimistic but just in different forms.   For example for those that look at late first rounders and late second rounders as likely resulting in a group of studs IMO haven't looked at the stark differences between the NFL and our own draft record from drafting in the late first versus the early first.   McVay is no dummy.  Supposedly behind the scenes this very point about the value of late first rounders has guided some of their moves.  Are the Rams foolish or smart?  It depends on your perspective.   

 

The argument that you can't both get a QB and upgrade the rest of the roster at the same time -- that argument to me is as wildly emotional as the argument that we need to throw whatever we can to get a QB.  It's just emotion in a different form.

 

So that's my long way of saying you got to take each situation as it comes.  I'd lean towards being aggressive towards getting a QB and not let emotional impinge on that move.  The RG3 trade or the McNabb trade and drafting Patrick Ramsey or whatever to me is irrelevant.  The Browns struck out plenty at QB just like we have but that didn't stop them from drafting Baker Mayfield.    Teams have bombed trading up for QBs but they didn't stop the Texans and Chiefs from doing it on their end.   Don't let fear and emotion stop you.   You can justify anything or argue against anything -- its not hard to find arguments that fit a perspective.

 

I don't see Ron an an overly emotional type.  He strikes me as a dude that will put a value on something and pursue things accordingly.  So i am not worried about them botching this.  But I do have doubts they will have a good chance to upgrade. 

 

 

5 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

PFF from my view is largely reliant on macro data which can leave them vulnerable to micro data and/or situational nuance. Not claiming you believe it’s 100% right, you mentioned disagreeing on some levels.  Your thoughts? 

 

Yeah i agree.  Context is what's missing.  Terry McLaurin for example failed the lofty "demoninator score" which isn't a PFF metric but its an often used number based way to judge draft prospects at WR.  But if you get past religiously being married robotically to scores -- you'd see for example Terry had sick combine numbers and a sick YPA, and 700 yards wasn't bad considered Haskins threw short so much to Paris Campbell who hogged Ohio State's stats at WR.  Yeah he was a late bloomer which is a knock against players as to demoniator scores but then you read about his story and high intangibles -- and I was sold that a late bloomer could work in his case.  But if went with pure anayltics I'd be off Terry.   But loved him before the draft factoring context.

 

PFF would say Okudah is the better pick over Chase.  But among other things they don't factor the domino effect one dude could have on a full unit.   Also as Cooley likes to say an elite player brings a ripple effect that can pervade a locker room.  

 

So i love PFF, Football Outsiders, etc but i don't take all of their stuff as the be all and end all either.

 

5 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Does the average to above QB on a value based deal have a greater opportunity to close the gap with an elite highly paid QB? 

 

 

 

My take is likely no but that choice is unlikely to present itself.  

Edited February 2, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Matt Miller has Carolina trading to 3 and taking Wilson. Lance at 4 to ATL. He doesn’t have Jets taking a QB. He then has WFT trading 19, 72 and a 2022 1st to Detroit for 7 to take Fields. 
 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[86 Snyder]

1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Matt Miller has Carolina trading to 4 and taking Lance. He then has WFT trading 19, 72 and a 2022 1st to Detroit for 7 to take Fields. 
 

 

 

I would do that so ****ing fast

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Matt Miller has Carolina trading to 3 and taking Wilson. Lance at 4 to ATL. He doesn’t have Jets taking a QB. He then has WFT trading 19, 72 and a 2022 1st to Detroit for 7 to take Fields. 

 

 

I'd do it. 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Matt Miller has Carolina trading to 3 and taking Wilson. Lance at 4 to ATL. He doesn’t have Jets taking a QB. He then has WFT trading 19, 72 and a 2022 1st to Detroit for 7 to take Fields. 
 

 

KDawg do that draft?

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

KDawg do that draft?

 

I thought @KDawg was a pro Haskins and anti Fields guy? 

[Rufus T Firefly]

5 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

I would do that so ****ing fast

 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd do it. 

I'd do it for Lance or Wilson. I just don't trust Fields as a pro prospect.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

 

I'd do it for Lance or Wilson. I just don't trust Fields as a pro prospect.

 

Love Wilson.  But I easily trust Fields over Lance and i like Lance.  Fields to me is the much more polished passer.  Both of them though need to work on their game including both stare too much at their targets. 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I thought @KDawg was a pro Haskins and anti Fields guy? 

You're hysterical. 

 

Dude, Yesterday we were talking Stafford and now people are advocating for Andy ****ing Dalton? I'm still in the Winston Carr draft later camp personally, but you go big QB guys are reeling. Dude, Dalton?

[Rufus T Firefly]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Love Wilson.  But I easily trust Fields over Lance and i like Lance.  Fields to me is the much more polished passer.  Both of them though need to work on their game including both stare too much at their targets. 

I just don't trust Fields ever developing. He looks like a guy who tops out as a Jackson level passer. Able to make some plays but never a guy who you win big with because of his throwing, 

 

Lance needs to sit for probably his whole first year. Work with him on his throwing the way Buffalo did with Fields. If you do that, I think the guy has the potential to be special. Like better than Allen. 

[Conn]

2 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

 

I'd do it for Lance or Wilson. I just don't trust Fields as a pro prospect.

I don’t know how true this is but I saw a Twitter thread detailing how many of the plays where it looks like Fields is staring down a WR, it’s actually an option built into the play where he’s waiting for the WR to read it and make a decision. Don’t know how accurate it is. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Okay, is there some glitch, or are a lot of people just clicking "quote" on the wrong post a lot today?

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Dude, Yesterday we were talking Stafford and now people are advocating for Andy ****ing Dalton? I'm still in the Winston Carr draft later camp personally, but you go big QB guys are reeling. Dude, Dalton?

 

A lot of emotion on this thread from me included.  It's a good sign though considering in the past it was mostly a debate about how to pull a crap team out of the gutter.   This version is more fun.

 

As for the FAs, I really don't have a strong opinion about anyone.  And I hate advocating for one of them because even when I explain the context of it -- I'll still be pushed to debate the merits of that dude.    But for me I am not dying on the hill for any of the FAs.  If I had to pick one or two it would be Fitzpatrick or Tyrod Taylor.  But if its Winston or Dalton or whomever, I personally wouldn't lose sleep over it.   So I don't really have a hard bet on any of the FAs.  I'd probably just ride what what they had in house over a FA.

 

From what I've read stats wise about Carr, I could ride with him.  But I won't die on the hill for him either.    I could dig trading up in the draft but it feels unrealistic but I guess you never know.  I am a pessmistic about punting to 2022.  I don't at the moment love the QB crop for that draft, FA looks meh and its tough for me to see a Stafford type hitting the market. But I guess you never know. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I don’t know how true this is but I saw a Twitter thread detailing how many of the plays where it looks like Fields is staring down a WR, it’s actually an option built into the play where he’s waiting for the WR to read it and make a decision. Don’t know how accurate it is. 

 

Fields definitely stares down receivers but Lance takes that to an art form.  The bet is hopefully they both are coached off of that. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Skinsinparadise