Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, HigSkin said:

This is a really good read if anybody has the time about younger, aggressive front offices that are swinging for the fences in trades to solidify their teams and the trends of the 4 teams in the championship games this weekend.

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2021/1/22/22243683/tom-brady-aaron-rodgers-nfc-championship-game-football-lessons

 

 

 

Great article.  And naturally like anyone else I enjoy reading things that fit my preconceptions.   😀

 

My takeaways from that related to our team:

 

A.  the idea that this is an offensive driven league is becoming even more pronounced over time.  The defense wins champions line is old school.  

B.  balanced rosters.  It's harder than ever to win with mostly defense and a game manager at QB.  You need an offense that can compete.  And a defense.

C.  It's a QB league and its becoming even more so.  To beat teams with a great QB, you likely need your own great QB.

D. Be aggressive to get your QB and or provide weapons for your QB.  

 

So if the idea is that our FO isn't convinced that a great defense (we got to build it more to get it to be great but its not far off) coupled with Kyle Allen or name that game manager type will likely win a SB for them -- that article would back their thinking on it.   We need a QB. 

 

The bad news I'd take from that article is none of the FA QBs are probably worth messing with.  In other words, a slight upgrade over Kyle Allen would likely be meaningless to the bottom line.  If the bottom line is winning a SB. 

 

Of the 4 teams in the championship games, 3 of the 4 got their QB either by trading up or elsewhere.  We can say for example well the Bills were loaded at the time, they had all the pieces in place.  But far from it.  And heck they doubled down again last off season and traded assets to give him a weapon.  The thesis of the article is about being aggressive not conservative. 

 

And yeah being aggressive can set you back but the Bills shot for the fences.  If we think about it, the Bills in the AFC Championship and being a serious threat to win a SB -- that would sound comical for decades up to now.  They have had a very similar run to us.  They had their 9-7 "glory seasons" intermingled with 6-10 type of seasons more or less forever.  The changed by being smart and part of that involved being bold.   

Edited January 23, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[sjinhan]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He was referring to Hurney and Mayhew taking franchise guys at the time or so was the perception.  I don't think he was saying that they are after Newton now.

 

I think Stafford would likely be the answer for a 4-5 year run which is plenty enough.  I think we all would prefer a younger 10-15 year QB.  We'd all rather have the high end buffet versus just the meal or whatever.  But reality might not make that easy.   I love Zach Wilson for example more than most but I am not betting the mortgage on him being a success, if you bet a ton of assets on an unproven guy and end up wrong, the franchise could be screwed. 

 

 

I agree.  We need to focused on next 3-4 years when relatively our talent is cheap.   Stafford is perfect for this.  Lets worry about what happens after that later.

 

[Est.1974]

Stafford would be ideal at a reasonable trade cost.

 

I’m really intrigued by our new GMs view of Garoppolo. He’ll know exactly what Lynch and Shanahan want to do with him. He’ll also have real insight into Jimmy Gs role in that SB appearance run. We do have that stud D for him.
 

I can see us trading an early day 3 pick for him. Add a couple years to his deal, convert his 2021 money to bonus to drop the cap hit under 10mil in 2021, and role with him.

 

Get a premium WR in free agency, add a TE. 
 

That’s not option A, but I see it being an option.

[tmandoug1]

9 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Stafford would be ideal at a reasonable trade cost.

 

I’m really intrigued by our new GMs view of Garoppolo. He’ll know exactly what Lynch and Shanahan want to do with him. He’ll also have real insight into Jimmy Gs role in that SB appearance run. We do have that stud D for him.
 

I can see us trading an early day 3 pick for him. Add a couple years to his deal, convert his 2021 money to bonus to drop the cap hit under 10mil in 2021, and role with him.

 

Get a premium WR in free agency, add a TE. 
 

That’s not option A, but I see it being an option.

 I don't think we need another injury prone QB, I read an article that SF might dump him for that very reason. Another case of picking up someone's trash......maybe for a 5th or later.

[Est.1974]

12 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

 I don't think we need another injury prone QB, I read an article that SF might dump him for that very reason. Another case of picking up someone's trash......maybe for a 5th or later.

Yep a 5th or later. They aren’t looking to dump him due to his injury history.

 

They don’t want to pay him 20mil plus, but he has a no trade clause in 2021, so he has an element of control. 
 

Im not pushing that move. Just intrigued as we now have Mayhew.

[Skinsinparadise]

I am not a Jimmy G guy but we can do worse like Darnold. 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

I'd start Heinecke over Garoppolo. He is overrated and probably washed up at this point with all his injuries.

[KDawg]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

I'd start Heinecke over Garoppolo. He is overrated and probably washed up at this point with all his injuries.

There is a strange fascination with needing to trade for anyone within the fanbase. Literally anyone. It scares me.

[Est.1974]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

There is a strange fascination with needing to trade for anyone within the fanbase. Literally anyone. It scares me.

there might be an even stranger fascination within the front office to do just that as well 

[TheGoodBits]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

There is a strange fascination with needing to trade for anyone within the fanbase. Literally anyone. It scares me.

I think the basic mentality is that we’ve got to find a QB this offseason, which is true to an extent. But we’ve got to find a *good* QB.
 

There’s little point to me in bringing in other mid to lower tier guys. Coach has expressed confidence in Kyle Allen, and Heinicke looked great in limited work. I’d rather just roll the dice and give them a shot rather than bring in someone who is likely not an upgrade or longterm answer. 

[Est.1974]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd start Heinecke over Garoppolo. He is overrated and probably washed up at this point with all his injuries.

At least we have a GM who will know the answer to that.

[FootballZombie]

40 minutes ago, KDawg said:

There is a strange fascination with needing to trade for anyone within the fanbase. Literally anyone. It scares me.

 

Not anyone...

 

I don't think people on here want Darnold or some of these other guys... just acknowledging the terrifying possibility.

Same can be said for picking up Cam in FA. The pathway exists, whether people want it or not.

 

 

A lot of these would be hard to swallow (Zombie pun)

[kingdaddy]

3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Stafford would be ideal at a reasonable trade cost.

 

I’m really intrigued by our new GMs view of Garoppolo. He’ll know exactly what Lynch and Shanahan want to do with him. He’ll also have real insight into Jimmy Gs role in that SB appearance run. We do have that stud D for him.
 

I can see us trading an early day 3 pick for him. Add a couple years to his deal, convert his 2021 money to bonus to drop the cap hit under 10mil in 2021, and role with him.

 

Get a premium WR in free agency, add a TE. 
 

That’s not option A, but I see it being an option.

I really hope this is not the direction we go...I think Garrapolo is below average as an NFL QB and that we can do better. I would take Heinicke over Jimmy G all day long.

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

I think the basic mentality is that we’ve got to find a QB this offseason, which is true to an extent. But we’ve got to find a *good* QB.
 

There’s little point to me in bringing in other mid to lower tier guys. Coach has expressed confidence in Kyle Allen, and Heinicke looked great in limited work. I’d rather just roll the dice and give them a shot rather than bring in someone who is likely not an upgrade or longterm answer. 

To your point, I don't think RR is interested in rolling the dice as you say. This season was very unstable at QB and I'd bet RR would give anything to avoid another year like this past one which leads me to believe that we go after a vet who has proven he can win and stay healthy. We can still re-sign both Allen and Heinicke but getting a guy who can be counted on to show up every week and play has to be a priority and neither Allen or Heinicke have proven they do the job for an entire season; Allen because of injuries and Heinicke because of lack of opportunities to prove himself. 

So, where do we find a guy that can withstand the rigors of the league and can win us 12 games with our ever improving defense? 

Fitzmagic? Newton? Taylor? Stafford? Marriota? Draft pick? 

To me, the answer is Fitzpatrick with Allen and Heinicke UNLESS we can move up and get a top tier QB in the draft....then, either Heinicke or Allen would be out and we'd go with Fitz, rookie, Heinicke or Allen, likely Heinicke over Allen because Allen would want a chance to start or at least be the primary backup. 

I have no problem with rolling the dice with Allen and Heinicke based on what I saw out of each of them but I doubt that twosome will be good enough for RR to sleep well at night.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Stafford would be ideal at a reasonable trade cost.

 

I’m really intrigued by our new GMs view of Garoppolo. He’ll know exactly what Lynch and Shanahan want to do with him. He’ll also have real insight into Jimmy Gs role in that SB appearance run. We do have that stud D for him.
 

I can see us trading an early day 3 pick for him. Add a couple years to his deal, convert his 2021 money to bonus to drop the cap hit under 10mil in 2021, and role with him.

 

Get a premium WR in free agency, add a TE. 
 

That’s not option A, but I see it being an option.

No.   He's injury prone.  Has he even started a full season, while in San Francisco.  If he's cut, Bill Bellichek will probably pick him up.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

there might be an even stranger fascination within the front office to do just that as well 

 

It will be fascinating to see what they do.

 

It was kind of funny listening to Brain Balidinger on the radio recently sort of wing it when talking about the Qb situation here.  He goes yeah they need one, he gets excited talking about it, then he gets questioned about whom would be the target, he hems and haws for little bit and then more or less says they are kind of screwed at fixing QB considering their situation which is picking 19.  

 

The thing is as we know FA doesn't look hot.  Picking 19 looks like no man's land at QB.  If FA had a couple of big time guys it would be different but unless Dak hits FA all the options are somewhat "meh".   And the top 4 guys in the draft are expected to go top 10.  And there seems to be a lot of competition if we got into a bidding war.  So they are sort of in no man's land.

 

I don't see how next year looks hot where its clear if we punt on it now, no problem, because 2022 looks more promising.  Granted things can change, but right now 2022 looks like a meh draft at QB and FA looks even more uninspiring than this year.  So the idea of hey just build your roster and go get your Watson/Mahomes in 2022 and trade up for that guy while sounds super cool at the moment also could be unrealistic. 

 

They seem to have quite a pickle.  I don't think anyone here wants to trade just to trade.  But if you don't trade you are talking about someone dropping to 19 -- Mac Jones maybe? Or embracing the Fitzpatrick or Taylor type FAs.  Otherwise something involving a trade has to happen.  That could pertain to trading in the draft but i am guessing it won't be easy and we'd be giving up a ton.

 

Putting myself in their shoes, the more I think about it the more perhaps I'd leave FA alone and not chase any of those guys unless they have concerns about Allen's health.   If Stafford or Watson is available try to trade for them.  If you can't land either one then it leaves the draft.  If I loved Fields, Wilson, Lance, etc then approach that draft with serious aggressivness because it almost for sure would require that to trade up that high. 

 

If they don't love these targets then punt on the QB spot.    I disagree with the mindset of just keep building the roster and eventually your luck will likely change and an opportunity will arise and patience somewhat naturally gets rewarded because prudence pays.  I agree with it to a small extent in that I think if you have a ton of patience it eventually will work out.  But I think it could be quite a long wait.  It's not something I'd count on in lets say the next three years.  I'd put money that we will have similar bad circumstance in 2022 and 2023 and are out of luck.  That's not because I am a natural pessimist but because most don't find franchise QBs.  The house money is always on not finding the next Deshaun Watson versus finding him.  

 

In summary, I think they have to get lucky.  What's interesting is Tepper and the Carolina FO from what i am reading is obsessed with the same point harped on this thread by some which is its tough to win a SB without a franchise QB.  Reading their clippings they seem as hot to trot to be aggressive as supposedly this FO will be. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[BurgundyBooger]

I think we should stick with Allen and Heinicke. They performed quite admirably with the limited offseason and sessions with the 1st team. Let them compete for the starting position during a normal offseason schedule, and by week 1 we'll have a solid #1 and #2. Unfortunately, a part of me is concerned that the "business side" of the organization will insist on bringing in a big name QB to help spur public awareness and interest in the team but I hope Ron and company are able to stave off those concerns and put restraint ahead of impudence in Free Agency.

Edited January 23, 2021 by BurgundyBooger

[Skinsinparadise]

Forbes isn't an insider.  But hope he's right as for Stafford hitting the market.  Haven't really thought about Denver as a factor, they have the better pick and they could trade him out of conference.  

 

 

 

ins't 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Great article.  And naturally like anyone else I enjoy reading things that fit my preconceptions.   😀

 

My takeaways from that related to our team:

 

A.  the idea that this is an offensive driven league is becoming even more pronounced over time.  The defense wins champions line is old school.  

B.  balanced rosters.  It's harder than ever to win with mostly defense and a game manager at QB.  You need an offense that can compete.  And a defense.

C.  It's a QB league and its becoming even more so.  To beat teams with a great QB, you likely need your own great QB.

D. Be aggressive to get your QB and or provide weapons for your QB.  

 

So if the idea is that our FO isn't convinced that a great defense (we got to build it more to get it to be great but its not far off) coupled with Kyle Allen or name that game manager type will likely win a SB for them -- that article would back their thinking on it.   We need a QB. 

 

The bad news I'd take from that article is none of the FA QBs are probably worth messing with.  In other words, a slight upgrade over Kyle Allen would likely be meaningless to the bottom line.  If the bottom line is winning a SB. 

 

Of the 4 teams in the championship games, 3 of the 4 got their QB either by trading up or elsewhere.  We can say for example well the Bills were loaded at the time, they had all the pieces in place.  But far from it.  And heck they doubled down again last off season and traded assets to give him a weapon.  The thesis of the article is about being aggressive not conservative. 

 

And yeah being aggressive can set you back but the Bills shot for the fences.  If we think about it, the Bills in the AFC Championship and being a serious threat to win a SB -- that would sound comical for decades up to now.  They have had a very similar run to us.  They had their 9-7 "glory seasons" intermingled with 6-10 type of seasons more or less forever.  The changed by being smart and part of that involved being bold.   

So SIP do you think this F.O. will end up swinging for the fences and move up in the draft to get Lance or Wilson or slight possibility my favorite (Jones).  Jones is not gifted like the other two and he played on a team with NFL ready players.  They might be able to get Jones if they want him at #19 or move up very little to get him.  Thoughts?

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said:

I think we should stick with Allen and Heinicke. They performed quite admirably with the limited offseason and sessions with the 1st team. Let them compete for the starting position during a normal offseason schedule, and by week 1 we'll have a solid #1 and #2. Unfortunately, a part of me is concerned that the "business side" of the organization will insist on bringing in a big name QB to help spur public awareness and interest in the team but I hope Ron and company are able to stave off those concerns and put restraint ahead of impudence in Free Agency.

 

Based on what the insiders seem to think Ron has an all hands on deck approach to QB.  I think they are on dead on correct to have urgency.  I don't see Kyle Allen winning a SB.   It appears they don't see him a SB QB either.   The challenge though is likely even though they are supposedly hot to trot to upgrade that spot, wonder if any targets manifest that are worth chasing.  

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Wow, I didn't realize how serious Allen's injury was.  Wonder when he'll be full go?

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I don't think its a coincidence in that this comes out a day after the Texans re-interview two coaches he probably does not want.

 

Watson is sending out warning shots.