A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Warhead36]

Rivera is who we needed after 2019 to reset the culture. I think he's done that. We have a good locker room now and a solid core foundation. But as an in game tactician he leaves a lot to be desired. The best teams have guys who are really good in the heat of battle e.g. Sirianni on Philly, O'Connell with Minnesota, Shanahan with San Fran, Reid with KC etc. etc.

 

If we want to take that next step, that's the kind of guy we need. Someone who can play 3 dimensional chess. Rivera plays tic tac toe and often struggles.

[tshile]

I don’t know how you all can be so hard on coaching when the offensive game plan is to protect a limited QB. 
 

I would sign Heinicke as a backup every day of the week. But backups, even good ones, are supposed to fill in gaps. Whether it’s mid-game or mid-season. You’re not supposed to run 6+ games with a backup and it’s easy to understand why. 
 

I don’t know if people are just missing the fact they’re trying to protect a limited QB, or what. And I personally think they should stop and let things work out however they work out instead of playing this dumb game that ultimately keeps the team from being good enough to matter this season. 
 

in the face of everything else - solid roster rebuild, a team full of max effort guys (even if they ultimately aren’t good enough individually), and a team that refuses to ever give up on each other and the coach… a ****ty owner to screws everything up… how some of you all can hate them so much you demand them to clean house asap. 
 

I see open receivers. I see a team that’s managed to be relevant late season running an ultra conservative offense with a backup QB. I see some good decision making even if it didn’t work out (which I often see people criticizing results with no nuance or separating criticizing decision making from criticizing results)

 

sure we can upgrade. But that’s different than declaring them all bums and demanding a cleaning of the house. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by tshile

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 minutes ago, tshile said:

I don’t know how you all can be so hard on coaching when the offensive game plan is to protect a limited QB. 

Especially when every play caller has plays they’d like back, plays that are meant to set things up for later that blow up in their face, and plans that get foiled due to x, y and z.

 

There was a lot of meat left on the bone last night.  I am confident that all 3rd party analysis will say as much.

 

 

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

I just did a little digging ahead of games against the 49ers and Dallas, and let me tell you this is telling…

 

In Ron Rivera’s tenure as HC of this team Washington have won 4 games against teams who have ended the season with a winning record:

2020 - Steelers

2021 - Tampa Bay, Raiders

2022 - Eagles

 

If you are remotely competent you WILL beat Ron Rivera’s Washington

 

Thanks for laying the foundations Ron but I just simply cannot justify wasting another year of this WR trio, Two young good RB’s and an elite D Line on Ron’s mediocre coaching

Edited December 19, 2022 by BrentMeisterGeneral

[NickyJ]

The offensive line is the only move that I can really hold against Ron and his staff. William Jackson being a bust can be too, but everyone is going to miss on an expensive free agent at some point, and the only thing we're lacking because of that deal now is cap space.

 

Whiffing on everyone but the OTs is rough, but that's pretty much all I can really complain about. The QB situation was clearly going to be rough no matter who we picked. Mariota may have been the best option in the end, but Mariota vs. Wentz. vs. Heinicke is the Mediocre, the Bad, and the Ugly.

 

I'm still even on Ron. He rolled the dice on the best options he had available at QB for 2 years in a row. A rental in Ryan Fitzpatrick, a reclamation of what used to be a promising QB in Wentz. Both times ended in injuries. We'll see what he's got for a third year in a row, because I don't think the team can be sold soon enough to assemble a staff that's clearly better than Ron's.

Edited December 19, 2022 by NickyJ

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Rivera is who we needed after 2019 to reset the culture. I think he's done that. We have a good locker room now and a solid core foundation. But as an in game tactician he leaves a lot to be desired. The best teams have guys who are really good in the heat of battle e.g. Sirianni on Philly, O'Connell with Minnesota, Shanahan with San Fran, Reid with KC etc. etc.

 

If we want to take that next step, that's the kind of guy we need. Someone who can play 3 dimensional chess. Rivera plays tic tac toe and often struggles.

 

I agree. I could easily see a situation where he stewards the team for another season because of the awkward timing of the ownership sale, and then retires with his pride and dignity intact. Knowing that he helped turn around the culture here and built a strong foundation for the next guy, who the new owner’s GM will hire.  

[Zim489]

5 minutes ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

I just did a little digging ahead of games against the 49ers and Dallas, and let me tell you this is telling…

 

I’m Ron Rivera’s tenure as HC of this team Washington have won 4 games against teams who have ended the season with a winning record:

2020 - Steelers

2021 - Tampa Bay, Raiders

2022 - Eagles

 

If you are remotely competent you WILL beat Ron Rivera’s Washington

 

Thanks for laying the foundations Ron but I just simply cannot justify wasting another year of this WR trio, Two young good RB’s and an elite D Line on Ron’s mediocre coaching

Steelers too were playing their 3rd game in 10 days before their utter collapse that season. 

 

We have racked up wins against some pretty abysmal teams over rons tenure here. 

 

This year in our wins are against teams that are 37-58-2 good for roughly a 38% win percent.  Take out the eagles game and it goes down to 24-57-2 to a 28%. Average margin of victory of less than 7 points. Take out the fluke of the return TD in the last vs the eagles and its down to less than 5 and a half. Were barely scarping by some horrid teams. 

[tshile]

You can’t just take away things. We have bad plays we can take away too and paint a different picture. Football is full of mistakes and randomly luck, even random bad luck. 
 

You can also only play the teams on your schedule and for some of these years 6 of his games were against an awful nfc east. 
 

stats in football are funny. I think they should be used to help inform, but not totally inform you. You need to watch the games. You need to take it week by week. There’s too many variables in constant change to sit back and draw meaningful conclusions for records or other stats. 

Even watching, if you’re generally informed as a football fan, is hard. You can’t really do any meaningful grading when you don’t understand assignments, or how things were coached, or if someone missed a check presnap (but others didn’t)

 

a lot of people push a lot of opinions that aren’t actually backed up by anything meaningful. People that have never spent a single day installing an offense/defense or prepping for a game or studying film above high school. 

[tshile]

Even Cooley this year has started caveating his film breakdowns with the fact that being out of the game for so long and not playing for Turner makes it hard for him to know who was wrong in spots. So he throws out all the options. He’s also talked about how former players turned announcers tend to be really knowledgeable at the start but as they become further removed from studying film and being in the rooms with coaches, they back off and become more generic because they just don’t know anymore. 
 

meanwhile we got a bunch of people breaking things down on twitter when they haven’t played since high school. 
 

combined with people clinging to stats to prop up every argument because it’s the only concrete thing we have as outsiders. 
 

one of the many advantages of having my emotion tie to this time completely severed is that my eyes have opened on that and I don’t waste time thinking about it anymore. It’s all eye test - and not really caring what the actual problems are. 
 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

It’s easy to get carried away with stats like opponents record and the like.  The fact of the matter is week in and week out, games are close in this league - even with teams most would consider awful.  Every once in a blue moon there is a blowout where the game just gets out of control, but it’s rare.

 

That said, you can look at trends and see that a weekly low scoring offense that is bad in the red zone, led by a QB that throws the riskiest ball in the league with consistently pedestrian stat lines, and easily see that it’s not a sustainable way to win football games.

 

But for whatever reason, that makes you a “hater” to call it what it is.

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s easy to get carried away with stats like opponents record and the like.  The fact of the matter is week in and week out, games are close in this league - even with teams most would consider awful.  Every once in a blue moon there is a blowout where the game just gets out of control, but it’s rare.

for some reason it feels like only gamblers realize this. Most of my bets are looking at point spreads that are huge because one team sucks, and taking the underdog. And they win a lot. I think this year in particular underdogs have done great against the spread. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

 

But for whatever reason, that makes you a “hater” to call it what it is.

it’s just people being typical dumb people. You see it in politics and anything else too. If there are 2 or 3 sides to an issue, some % of people are going to act like this. 
 

And with sports we also have the pleasure of dealing with a certain % of people that are so limited intellectually, that if you are critical at all they demand you “turn in your fan card” or some such nonsense. 
 

as much as we’re dealing with the obnoxious Taylor fans, we had our own version of that with people that felt to need to defend Wentz to death after the trade (and before he even took a snap).

 

and of course both sides show up with the other guy gets to play, and plays poorly, cause everyone loves to say they were right (even if that’s not what actually happened)

 

[88Comrade2000]

18 hours ago, @DCGoldPants said:

 

It just doesn't work like that. Nobody is going to sign for 1 year and no ownership who is good at their jobs, will do that. They'd sooner strip Ron of all front office control and spend the season building up their scouting, medical staff, planning new facilities, training programs. 

Lovie would get a 2-3 year deal but in reality he’s be gone after a year. He’s going to dine in Houston after a year.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s easy to get carried away with stats like opponents record and the like.  The fact of the matter is week in and week out, games are close in this league - even with teams most would consider awful.  Every once in a blue moon there is a blowout where the game just gets out of control, but it’s rare.

 

That said, you can look at trends and see that a weekly low scoring offense that is bad in the red zone, led by a QB that throws the riskiest ball in the league with consistently pedestrian stat lines, and easily see that it’s not a sustainable way to win football games.

 

But for whatever reason, that makes you a “hater” to call it what it is.

 

As I've said I am living and dying with what happens with Dan as I know you are.   So focusing on Ron or whomever to me is borderline irreievant -- feels like almost we are jinxing this but assuming the dragon is already slayed before he's slayed.

 

But for what its worth, Ron has made major changes to the culture.  I think his drafts have been good.  Yeah not if we judge it by fantasy where some think every pick should be a hit but by reality which is if you land 3 players you got a good haul.  He had a good FA crop in year 1, meh in year 2, and this year they did nothing but I blame that more on Dan.

 

As far as QB, I give him props for the idea that he keeps swinging.  None of our prior coaches climbed that mountain so i am not going to kill him for not accomplishing what no one else has even Gibbs in round 2 in the last 30 years.  I want a coach that keeps swinging at it until he hits.  And thus far, he's kept swinging.   And that isn't me talking with hindsight, I said when we acquired Wentz, I wasn't sure if this would work but I appreciate the swing.

 

What happens with Ron in the future?  Especially if the owner changes, I don't think he's long for the team.  Either the new owner wants his guy or I think he would want to leave maybe after one more season.  So the Ron haters here, I wouldn't worry in their shoes. 

 

At a minimum  I can't be angry at a dude who endured more crap than any of our previous coaches by a mile.  Heinicke ironically talked about how the players rally around Rivera in part because of all that he has endured both personally and with distraction after distraction as Heinicke went every week its something new.  So when he steps down and leaves he gets props from me. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

On 12/18/2022 at 8:16 PM, Conn said:

 

lol this is so bad but if we make a weird playoff run with at least one W it’ll become ironically popular 

What's he saying? 

[Conn]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

What's he saying? 

You think you’re going to trick me into hitting play on that devilry again? Nice try! 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Conn said:

You think you’re going to trick me into hitting play on that devilry again? Nice try! 

It's sounds fairly similar to "no one likes us and we don't care" that Philly has been using for a long time is why I ask.

[Est.1974]

Ron has done an excellent job under the circumstances. However, it seems logical that new ownership brings a complete coaching and front office overhaul. It’ll be time to start over, albeit from a relatively solid base this time around.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Ron has done an excellent job under the circumstances. However, it seems logical that new ownership brings a complete coaching and front office overhaul. It’ll be time to start over, albeit from a relatively solid base this time around.

 

I think from a marketing stand point its a no brainer to blow everything up.  If you are trying to sell new beginnings it has to feel that way IMO in every way imaginable. 

 

Deserved or not (and in many cases undeserved), everything in this FO and coaching staff has Dan's stench on it since he made the hires.  

[NickyJ]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

What's he saying? 

"Left hammer up, we're the Commies".

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Ron has done an excellent job under the circumstances. However, it seems logical that new ownership brings a complete coaching and front office overhaul. It’ll be time to start over, albeit from a relatively solid base this time around.

I bet Bezos wil be awesome at building a football team

[Est.1974]

25 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I bet Bezos wil be awesome at building a football team

I hope so KB. That’s the preferred outcome at this stage.

[skinzplay]

Talked to a former GM about an hour ago. He's not 'former' because he was fired or can't find a job. He's 'former' because he's OLD. He said a few interesting things:

 

1. If he was interviewing potential HC candidates and any of them had Turner listed as a OC on their coaching staff, he wouldn't hire any of them because that right there shows poor judgment. He said (I'm paraphrasing): "it's like a president, that first important decision isn't policy, it's who's chosen as VP....i view HCs and their coordinator choices the same way." I said sometimes coaches choose people people the preferred options aren't available. He said Turner's been there long enough, there were better options available at the time of hire, and better since. He can't understand why RR is sticking with Turner, and noted that what was displayed Sunday night validated what a lot of current GMs also think about Turner. View him as a QB coach in the league or OC in the NCAA.

 

2. Loves, really loves RR, but said he belongs in the league office, not on the sidelines

 

3. Would've never brought in Wentz. Would've focused on LB and OL, and gone after Mariota as a bridge.

 

4. Said he'd cut Heinicke. Basically said something like if he's on the roster, you might actually have to use him, and his ceiling and limitations are obvious. Used the word 'spunk', which I guess is s synonym of moxie, but said that's not enough to keep him.

 

 

 

[Zim489]

22 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Talked to a former GM about an hour ago. He's not 'former' because he was fired or can't find a job. He's 'former' because he's OLD. He said a few interesting things:

 

1. If he was interviewing potential HC candidates and any of them had Turner listed as a OC on their coaching staff, he wouldn't hire any of them because that right there shows poor judgment. He said (I'm paraphrasing): "it's like a president, that first important decision isn't policy, it's who's chosen as VP....i view HCs and their coordinator choices the same way." I said sometimes coaches choose people people the preferred options aren't available. He said Turner's been there long enough, there were better options available at the time of hire, and better since. He can't understand why RR is sticking with Turner, and noted that what was displayed Sunday night validated what a lot of current GMs also think about Turner. View him as a QB coach in the league or OC in the NCAA.

 

2. Loves, really loves RR, but said he belongs in the league office, not on the sidelines

 

3. Would've never brought in Wentz. Would've focused on LB and OL, and gone after Mariota as a bridge.

 

4. Said he'd cut Heinicke. Basically said something like if he's on the roster, you might actually have to use him, and his ceiling and limitations are obvious. Used the word 'spunk', which I guess is s synonym of moxie, but said that's not enough to keep him.

 

 

 

[method man]

I have heard that Norv has been in the building quite a bit over the past month. I assume he has been helping Scott out with play design, which is what he gets kudos for. Unfortunately, dad can't help his son with playcalling during gameday. 

 

What this former GM has stated about Scott foots for me.

[skinzplay]

Same gentleman told me Haz would be nothing more than LB coach post-Skins. You may recall I also shared that here; came to fruition.