A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[FLSkinz83]

If Ross offered Flores money to lose games on purpose, I think he would be forced to sell.

 

Milk under Lerner's carpet is not going to do it.

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

So racial discrimination is seen as worse than sexually harassment?  Not to the harassment victims I would think.  Then there are all the other issues that Ross does not have.  

 

If you can prove that Dan sexually harassed someone then he'd be out.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

12 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

If Ross offered Flores money to lose games on purpose, I think he would be forced to sell.

 

Milk under Lerner's carpet is not going to do it.

 

If you can prove that Dan sexually harassed someone then he'd be out.  

Do you really believe Flores has proof of that?

 

While these owners maybe deficient in how to run a football team, they know better than to put nefarious activity like that in writing and that’s the only way it could ever be proven.  He’s not going to have that conversation in the presence of others either.  If he did, I think we’d already know about it.

 

Beyond that, Ross’s overall track record pales behind Snyder to say the least.

Edited July 3, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[FLSkinz83]

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Do you really believe Flores has proof of that?

 

While these owners maybe deficient in how to run a football team, they know better than to put nefarious activity like that in writing and that’s the only way it could ever be proven.  He’s not going to have that conversation in the presence of others either.  If he did, I think we’d already know

about it.

 

Beyond that, Ross’s overall track record pales behind Snyder to say the least.

 

You think there will be proof that Dan sexually harassed someone?   Besides the he said/she said.    Maybe, but doubtful

 

I think fans live in a bubble.  They think their owner is the worst or their player is the best.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

15 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

You think there will be proof that Dan sexually harassed someone?

I don’t.  It would require a video/audio recording and victims aren’t running sting operations, so I doubt it.

 

16 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

I think fans live in a bubble.  They think their owner is the worst or their player is the best.

There’s some truth to that.

 

However, we have over 2 decades of history with Dan to prove he’s a bad person, terrible owner and generally has no positive attributes.

 

At one point, folks could say “he’ll spare no expense to win” but we’ve even come to find out that is also false.  Dude literally has no redeeming qualities.  I wouldn’t want him to manage a car wash, much less a professional sports franchise.

[SkinsFTW]

18 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I think fans live in a bubble.  They think their owner is the worst or their player is the best.

 

 

This might be true of some fans but we actually have 20+ years of evidence on and off the field.

 

Dan Snyder has proven himself to be the worst owner in sports. You don't need DNA evidence when he's done like 500 different idiotic things.

[FLSkinz83]

9 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

This might be true of some fans but we actually have 20+ years of evidence on and off the field.

 

Dan Snyder has proven himself to be the worst owner in sports. You don't need DNA evidence when he's done like 500 different idiotic things.

 

 I judge ownership based on how he runs the team, not if he's a pillar of the community or if he's a nice guy.

 

The owner of my baseball team is worse than Dan.

 

You can find many sports owners on par with Dan.  And some of them eventually win championships.   Or compete for them at the very least.

[SkinsFTW]

Just now, FLSkinz83 said:

 

You can find many sports owners on par with Dan.  And some of them eventually win championships.   Or compete for them at the very least.

 

Yet he's the only one that can't ever get an 11 win team. They've even added a game and he still has long odds to finally do it. 23 years and counting. 

 

The Browns and Lions have done it, not Dan and his so called Commanders!

 

His only back to back winning seasons were 9-7 and 8-7-1, over 23 years! That is historically bad.

[FLSkinz83]

12 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Yet he's the only one that can't ever get an 11 win team. They've even added a game and he still has long odds to finally do it. 23 years and counting. 

 

The Browns and Lions have done it, not Dan and his so called Commanders!

 

His only back to back winning seasons were 9-7 and 8-7-1, over 23 years! That is historically bad.

 

It's about QB play mostly.   If Wentz plays well; We're winning at least 11.  Book it!    

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

18 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 I judge ownership based on how he runs the team, not if he's a pillar of the community or if he's a nice guy.

He’s run one of the greatest franchises in sports into the ground, in record time.  

 

Just like he’s done Johnny Rockets, Six Flags, whatever else he’s put his hands on.

 

The fact that he’s also an awful human being is just the cherry on top of the dumpster fire sundae that is Dan Snyder.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Closest analogy I can think of to Dan was George Steinbrenner and a big time poor man's Steinbrenner.  Steinbrenner at least had some wins and actually won big time after his suspension when the team during his suspension could actually build in the right way.  Steinbrenner also wasn't scared of the media and the public like Dan is. 

 

For a long spell he made the Yankees both unlikeable and losers.  Granted the Yankees will always be unlikable to some extent with some fans.  Steinbrenner like Dan liked to make his own personnel moves, ruled behind the scenes with fear, and lost during much of the 80s doing things "his way"

 

I think if you polled all fan bases, Dan would come up as the top loser owner.  While its true that many fans are frustrated with their own owner, the idea that Dan is the lowest of the low isn't some off beat take by just Commanders fans.  lol, I have a friend who is a Dolphins fan who says to me from time to time Ross is the worst but it could be even worse than that we could have Snyder.  I mentioned here recently I had a client, not a Commanders fan, noticed my Redskins logo on my chair in a zoom meeting and goes to me how can you support that team with an owner like Snyder.

 

Dan seems to be unqiue with all the bad qualities piling all into one pile.   Some owners have some of these bad qualities but can't think of one who has all of them,

 

A.  Doesn't believe in running a traditional FO with a top personnel man in charge.  Irsay and Ross have their issues but this isn't one of them.  Heck even Jerry supposedly behind the scenes in recent years defers to Will McClay who some say is the best in the business.

 

B. Heck even Goodell under oath said from what he's gathered no other NFL team has anything close to the depths of the bad culture in that FO.

 

C. An owner with seemingly little political connections and friends on that front.  That's hard to do when you are a mega billionaire.   You can see that bleeding into their stadium quest now.

 

D.  Well documented struggles with his side businesses.

 

E.  Fans being so turned off to the losing coupled with the dispair brought on by having an incompetent owner -- that attendance is plummeting, TV ratings are down.  Turned from being a flagship franchise to a team where losing and sleaze is now the main association to the franchise.  Dan is a punchline and he's made the team a punchline, too.  As Sheehan likes to say Dan is a testcase for business school about how to take a winning brand and turn it into a loser.  I recall some business student wrote an article on it that was posted years ago. 

 

F.  Worst facilities in the league

 

G.  Story after story of his douche behavior that doesn't seem to stop

 

H.  The one owner in sports who hides in his castle and doesn't feel like he owes any explanation to the fans-customers about anything, he won't talk.  As Albert Breer said Dan is a coward.

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

We really are in a rough spot as a franchise, too. If Dan thinks he’s going to be removed he’s not going to spend money on a new stadium, or continuing to upgrade facilities beyond where we are.

 

If the NFL wants to remove him and he fights it we’re looking at years of fighting, he won’t want to spend the extra cash and this team will continue to decline (hard to imagine that but…)

 

We’re just in a really bad spot.

[Mrshadow008]

2 hours ago, profusion said:

 

Stan Kroenke already did that in Los Angeles, and it's working out very well.

 

The current state of affairs seems to be that owners are willing to build out "football destination" developments in wealthy primary markets where they don't need to ask for public money to make the numbers work out the way they want. The rest of the development ends up being at least as profitable than the concrete bowl at the center of it. They're actually better off not letting the government get involved in the financing, since they have more control over the profits and outcomes.

 

It's secondary markets like Buffalo and St. Louis that are expected to be the chumps that pay the tab for their "NFL Experience", sort of like the monorail huckster in that episode of "The Simpsons."

 

DC is a primary market. The money here is outrageous, and the right development in the right place could generate vast oceans of profit beyond providing a place for the football to happen.

 

Right now, it's iffy whether Snyder could even get land-use permission from local governments, let alone public financing. Nobody in this area wants to be associated with his foul odor.

 

However, I don't think that fact will drive the other owners to vote him out. The precedent and legal complications are too risky as balanced against the relatively low impact of Dan's continued stinkitude on other franchises and the league overall. It's a big deal to *us*, but it's a minor news story to fans in most of the rest of the country, even now. The Commanders have truly become the "Washington Generals"--the patsy opposition no one pays much attention to.

 

If racism allegations came out, then they'd cut him loose in a heartbeat, but sexist behavior doesn't seem to generate the same level of controversy or risk (and I'm not EVEN going to wade into offering an opinion about that outside the Stadium...)

The other big part of this that people seem to be forgetting too is just because the state doesn’t give them money it does not preclude the county that they build in from giving them money. 
From what I heard on Standigs podcast a few weeks ago is Prince William really wants the stadium and the retail development around it that Dan wants. Prince William wants to develop the area where Dan was looking to build. The county wants the area to become more like Loudon county in the long run and views the stadium and development around it as a springboard to becoming that.

Now at the time the podcast came out the money from VA was still on the table. So the way it was worded was the state could give 300 million and the county could throw in 300 million. Well obviously the state is out but if Dan got say 300 million from the county that’s still 300 million more than he would be getting from DC or Maryland. PW also seems to be totally on board with what Dan wants to do from the development side of things.
I still think it ends up in VA taxpayer $ or not. for the simple fact that Dan can develop area whatever way he sees fit. He cannot do that in MD. 

[dyst]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

We really are in a rough spot as a franchise, too. If Dan thinks he’s going to be removed he’s not going to spend money on a new stadium, or continuing to upgrade facilities beyond where we are.

 

If the NFL wants to remove him and he fights it we’re looking at years of fighting, he won’t want to spend the extra cash and this team will continue to decline (hard to imagine that but…)

 

We’re just in a really bad spot.

Worth it, no matter how long it takes and how ugly the stadium and facilities remain.

[SkinsFTW]

Even Rob Manfred gets what DS never will:

 

 

"I asked Manfred to name the biggest mistake he's made -- one decision he'd like to have back. He laughed. "I have to narrow it down to one?" he said. "You know, I think people who can't admit they've made mistakes, particularly in a job like this, are a little dangerous."

 

Rob Manfred wants you to know: He doesn't hate baseball, he wants to save it (espn.com)

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Wildbunny]

8 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Do you really believe Flores has proof of that?

 

While these owners maybe deficient in how to run a football team, they know better than to put nefarious activity like that in writing and that’s the only way it could ever be proven.  He’s not going to have that conversation in the presence of others either.  If he did, I think we’d already know about it.

I would believe banks know the truth about that...

 

But that ain't the topic being discussed here

[Renegade7]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Closest analogy I can think of to Dan was George Steinbrenner and a big time poor man's Steinbrenner.  Steinbrenner at least had some wins and actually won big time after his suspension when the team during his suspension could actually build in the right way.  Steinbrenner also wasn't scared of the media and the public like Dan is. 

 

I'm not sure I understand this analogy at all, and ive read your poat twice now.

 

Steinbrenner didn't jus have some wins or win big time after his suspension, Yankees won 7 championships during his tenure as owner there.

 

No NFL franchise has more then 6 superbowls in the entire history of the NFL, let alone a single owner during their own tenure.

 

He may not be well liked, even hated by many, but it's almost disrespectful to him to put him in same sentence as Snyder (speaking as former Yankees fan, now Nats fan / Yankees sympathizer).

 

When he bought the Yankees, they hadn't won a championship in a decade, similar to timeframe from last championship to when Dan bought the Redskins.  But as bad as the 80s were for the Yankees, they won back to back championships like 4 years after Steinbrenner bought the team, while our football team has never even to NFC championship game under Snyder 😒

[Darrell Green Fan]

20 hours ago, profusion said:

 

However, I don't think that fact will drive the other owners to vote him out. The precedent and legal complications are too risky

 

Why do posters continue to claim this would be a dangerous precedent when we have the name Jerry Richardson as the actual precedent?  Another poster claimed we needed "proof" of Snyder's behavior. What "proof" did they have on Richardson?  The word, and big settlements, of the victims. Well we already have that with Snyder as well as so much more.  Now Richardson had more victims claiming he did the harassment, but Richardson did not attempt to intimidate the victims. So there's that. And again so so much more with Snyder.  

Edited July 4, 2022 by Darrell Green Fan

[Rocky21]

The owners didn’t vote Richardson out.  He sold voluntarily.  There is no precedent of the billionaire owners voting someone out of their billionaire club.

 

I’m ready to set the precedent.  All the losing, all of the turmoil, all of the embarrassment of being a fan of this team…it’s all the responsibility of Snyder.  
 

[Darrell Green Fan]

59 minutes ago, Rocky21 said:

The owners didn’t vote Richardson out.  He sold voluntarily.  There is no precedent of the billionaire owners voting someone out of their billionaire club.

 

I’m ready to set the precedent.  All the losing, all of the turmoil, all of the embarrassment of being a fan of this team…it’s all the responsibility of Snyder.  
 

 

Richardson had planned to pass the team to his kids, just like Snyder.  He had no intentions of selling until the league forced the issue.  The only difference here is Snyder will not go away so easily and Richardson was convinced to sell before he was voted out,  but it is still a very similar situation.   

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm not sure I understand this analogy at all, and ive read your poat twice now.

 

Steinbrenner didn't jus have some wins or win big time after his suspension, Yankees won 7 championships during his tenure as owner there.

 

No NFL franchise has more then 6 superbowls in the entire history of the NFL, let alone a single owner during their own tenure.

 

He may not be well liked, even hated by many, but it's almost disrespectful to him to put him in same sentence as Snyder (speaking as former Yankees fan, now Nats fan / Yankees sympathizer).

 

When he bought the Yankees, they hadn't won a championship in a decade, similar to timeframe from last championship to when Dan bought the Redskins.  But as bad as the 80s were for the Yankees, they won back to back championships like 4 years after Steinbrenner bought the team, while our football team has never even to NFC championship game under Snyder 😒

 

I followed the Yankees most of my life so I know their journey well.  You said you read my post twice.  The key poiints in it were "poor" mans Steinbrenner.  And I mentioned the 1980s.  And I explicitly mentioned the differences, too.  

 

The 1980s -- 1982-1992 wasn't a fun time.  Some spalsh moves.  Steinbrenner was very hands on.  I read a series of books about the Yankees besides living through that era and Steinbrenner has a bunch of stories very Dan like -- the vendors in the stadium would cower when he walked through that building.  He berated employees and ruled through fear.

 

Finally he got suspended for what he did to Winfield for 2 years.  It gave rise to Gene Michael being able to build that farm system versus trade them away over the years ala (Buhner, Barfield, Drabek, on and on) so they kept Bernie, Rivera, Jeter, Pettite, etc -- then you got the Yankees dynasty.  Supposedly he started losing his marbles in the late 90s, gave his sons more reign behind the scenes and all of that mellowed him too.   And that worked out for the Yankees.

 

But I think I spelled out the era along with the differences pretty distinctly.  I probably know the Yankees and Steinbrenner in particular better than I do this team and Snyder.  So I can elaborate further if needed.  But since this isn't a Yankees board, I figure this much is enough.  I'll sum the similarities again like this -- both with the reputation of ruling by fear and being major douches behind the scenes, both liked to meddle in personnel.  And yes it did cost Steinbrenner for give or take 10 years and arguably it turned around in spite of himself thanks to that suspension and him aging. Both seem to have a love for private detectives and digging up dirt on their "enemies".

 

The main differences that hit me?  No salary cap at the time in baseball (later they had a soft cap) and Steinbrenner could and did outspend the world and sometimes it worked but for a long spell it did not.  As i mentioned not only wasn't Steinbrenner afraid of the media, he loved attention.  Heck he even did national commercials. 

 

Also Steinbrenner has friends in high places politically, he liked everything first class -- the best of everything for his team -- versus Dan who at times has the Banana Republic version of trappings for his team.   Snyder does his thing in the shadows.  Reading a bunch on Steinbrenner he was a major douche behind the scenes, too and big time.  I didn't realize to what extent, there were always stories about him being hard to work for, until I read a full book about his story.  But also Steinbrenner didn't shy away from explaining himself.  He didn't hide.  Dan is a coward who hides in his castle afraid to speak about anything.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Daniel Snyder is a sneak. It’s his unmistakable personal signature. He always acts furtively, whether he’s trying to backstab a coach he’s disenchanted with or silence a woman who refuses to be a sex mannequin. Dodging a congressional subpoena and refusing to publicly answer questions about the gropey lewdness in his workplace while pressing blame for it on others are familiar tactics. Shadow campaigns are Snyder’s perennial style, and they’re a current event.

 

Whatever oiled-up business Snyder claimed to be conducting while sunning on his yacht deck off the coast of France, his attorney insisted it was important enough to justify flouting the House Committee on Oversight and Reform’s schedule. Snyder has declined to appear at hearings into his longtime clammily abusive office culture, even remotely. This alone is evidence of unrepentant scorn for the victims and the inquiry.

A Snyder spokesperson said dismissively before last month’s hearing that mistreatment of women at his franchise was “addressed years ago.” The problem with this assertion is that it’s worse than contemptuous; it’s false. The day Snyder addresses the problem is the day he’ll have to admit he’s the source of it. His reaction to every revelation is not true contrition but fresh retaliation — and ongoing obstruction.

 

Snyder and his lackey, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, have leaned hard into the contention that the team’s problems, while once egregious, are long over. Goodell’s testimony to the committee in June was a lot of platitudinal verbal litter. The Washington Commanders have jettisoned the leering cruds who made up Snyder’s inner circle and replaced them with sober, empathetic professionals such as Jason Wright, and Snyder was fined $10 million. Therefore, all in Snyder’s house is now supposedly cleaned and sanitized. “There has been a substantial transformation of the team’s culture, leadership and human resources practices,” Goodell said.

 

 

What Boy Scouts.

What devious double talk. If, as Snyder has claimed in public statements, his lone failing was that he was too hands-off rather than handsy — try to contain your convulsive laughter — then why has he worked so feverishly behind the curtain to compile opposition research on the legion of accusers? Because he personally led this fetid, noisome, pawing frat house, that’s why.

If, as Snyder insists, his main concern is to cultivate a workplace in which employees now feel safe, then why has he combed through personal phone records of accusers like some clandestine black bag op? Presumably because it’s at home where he wants them to feel threatened. Ex-cheerleaders — who he once proposed serve as quasi-escorts — report that he sent private investigators to their doorsteps as recently as the spring of last year. What a changed man.

 

If, as Snyder declares, he has embraced this opportunity to learn from all the mistakes of the past, then why has he legally hounded those he believes talked about his behavior with Washington Post reporters, without whose work no one ever would have known about the lurid pervy penchants in his building? As U.S. Magistrate Judge N. Reid Neureiter ruled in March 2021, Snyder’s motions in a defamation suit were really court abuses meant to “burden and harass individuals formerly associated with the Washington Football Team who may have acted as sources” for revelations.

As former team executive Jason Friedman described Snyder’s longtime methods for dealing with employees: “Obey first. If you don’t obey, intimidate. If you still don’t obey, terminate. And then if you didn’t go away and you tried to sue the team for wrongful termination, it would be to fight back. If that didn’t work, buy off.”

 

The coverups, private dicks, badgering lawyers, statements that promise one thing followed by the opposite: These are behaviors that happened in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and beyond. This is not “years ago” history — it’s recent. But it is a wearying well-worn pattern to those who have chronicled Snyder’s cowardly and covert nastiness for two decades, with his continual false “Daniel Snyder has learned from his mistakes” iterations.

 

How many times now has Snyder claimed to publicly cede authority and pretended to be hands-off for the health of the team? Only to tyrannize behind the scenes and invariably whack others for his mistakes — coaches, general managers, executives by the score finding themselves slurred and slimed and used as human shields. He is an inveterate loser who exhibits all the forthrightness of a garden snail.

Snyder’s fey conduct — and his clear lack of respect for a woman at a dais, committee chair Rep. Carolyn B. Maloney (D-N.Y.) — reminds you of nothing so much as a line the great sportswriter John Schulian once wrote about another sneering, shrinking little martinet of the sports world, Billy Martin: He is like “a rat studying to be a mouse.”

“Mr. Snyder has not been held accountable,” Maloney has asserted, correctly. “His refusal to testify sends a clear message that he is more concerned about protecting himself than coming clean with the American people.”

That’s because there’s never any such thing as a cleaned house so long as he’s still in it.

[ClaytoAli]

15 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

One way to deal with this man, track and report everything he does. Dig into his life and make it public. Ask Anonymous for help.

[spjunkies]

6 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said:

One way to deal with this man, track and report everything he does. Dig into his life and make it public. Ask Anonymous for help.

 

You know damn well that guy would sue all of us 😔

[ClaytoAli]

Just now, spjunkies said:

 

You know damn well that guy would sue all of us 😔

Then it would make him even more of a pariah.