A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 minutes ago, Bacon said:

 

Sex trafficking.

 

Bye bye. 

 

 

Ummm, no lol. True victims of sex trafficking wish is was nothing more than that.

[Springfield]

Snyder will probably sue and people on this board will defend him just like they did when he sued that site nobody’s ever heard over a salacious story they posted that nobody cared about.

[Bacon]

9 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

Ummm, no lol. True victims of sex trafficking wish is was nothing more than that.

 

Cheerleaders were regularly being transported for sex-related activities with their employment being threatened. They were not being paid extra for this, so it doesn't even qualify as prostitution. The hell else are we supposed to call this? 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Bacon

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Snyder will probably sue and people on this board will defend him just like they did when he sued that site nobody’s ever heard over a salacious story they posted that nobody cared about.

 

You mean the writer who was known for writing numerous false "facts" about Snyder (and even this board), who Snyder said included an anti-semitic image of him with the article that the author claimed Snyder was using his wife's cancer to prop himself up? That guy?

 

 

1 minute ago, Bacon said:

 

Cheerleaders were regularly being transported for sex-related activities with their employment being threatened. They were not being paid extra for this, so it doesn't even qualify as prostitution. The hell else are we supposed to call this? 

 

Where did you read that?

Edited August 26, 2020 by Califan007

[Cooleyfan1993]

3 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Snyder will probably sue and people on this board will defend him just like they did when he sued that site nobody’s ever heard over a salacious story they posted that nobody cared about.

I dont think anyone’s going to defend him over this. The situation with the bogus site/magazine or whatever it was, was different because that was completely false (linking him to Epstein). I’d sue too if someone was linking my name to a bogus rumor like that. 

[mammajamma]

this obviously isnt just 1 story that dan can sit and wait out like he thought. theyre going to keep coming, and each one is always at the top of espn. each one is an embarrassment for the league. they have no option but to get him out. i know the rest of the league owners dont like dan much, but theyre probably scared of the precedent of forcing an owner out. in case their own baggage came out. plus most of them are sleazebags themselves (looking at you Jerry). going to be some infighting within the league for sure, so dont think this will be resolved anytime soon unless dan just decides to take the payday

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I dont think anyone’s going to defend him over this. The situation with the bogus site/magazine or whatever it was, was different because that was completely false (linking him to Epstein). I’d sue too if someone was linking my name to a bogus rumor like that. 

 

I thought he was referring to the one back like 10 years ago.

[Bacon]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

Where did you read that?

 

Do you not remember the passport scandal, when our glorious leader took young females to Costa Rica to pimp them out to sponsors under the pretense of a "photo shoot?" This story from 2004 only confirms an extended pattern of behavior. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

I thought he was referring to the one back like 10 years ago.

The fact that there’s been more than one is just sad and says a lot about what an awful man Snyder is 😂

[mammajamma]

15 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

Ummm, no lol. True victims of sex trafficking wish is was nothing more than that.

obviously true victims of sex trafficking have it worse, but flying women to other countries, taking away their passports, and forcing them to "entertain" rich clients (including going to their hotel rooms with them), is pretty close

[TD_washingtonredskins]

22 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

The article is a damning indictment into Snyder's complete lack of understanding into what it takes to build and manage a successful NFL enterprise. By default, there WILL be misogynistic behavior and attitudes because, like it or not, this is a heavily male-influenced industry. But that doesn't excuse any owner from doing what's necessary to at least minimize the behavior if not eliminate it outright. Dan not only seems to have done little, his overall management style at the very least helped foster the toxic work environment.

 

Not sure if that's enough, though, to force him to sell. Might be. The videotaping thing is inexcusable but not sure how much it directly points to Snyder having anything to do with it. Three different people in the article talked about the "Best Of" video put together of the cheerleader photo shoots. All three of them mentioned Larry. Only one of them mentioned Dan, and that was hearing it 2nd hand from Larry. Could be argued that Larry lied and said it was for Dan. Could be that when Larry said it was for an "executive meeting" (or whatever the video title was) that the person recalling the moment just assumed he meant Snyder and is retelling the moment as if it was obvious that Larry meant Snyder even if he didn't say so. Bottom line is, it might be too vague to be some sort of smoking gun. The article rehashed stuff from the previous article, so it's not 100% new info.

 

Asking the cheerleader to go up to a hotel room with Roberts is vile. Unless there is more coming soon, though, it's a little strange that in 21 years of ownership that apparently was the one and only time Snyder did anything like this...between two expose' articles you'd think his name would come up more than one time. Also wild that this article didn't mention either Bruce or Vinny...being as close to Dan as they allegedly were, that's a bit surprising to be left out of the proceedings. The minority owners are never mentioned, either. Can it all be hidden from the very top brass? Unlikely. And even if it was it's still ultimately Snyder's responsibility as owner so there's no excuse. I have known a few business owners who were oblivious to the goings-on among execs and employees, mostly because execs kept the owner in the dark and employees didn't want to cause waves. and that's with the owners on-site 90% of the time. Hell, even I was an owner who was kept in the dark lol --although I did eventually learn of some stuff and when I did, I took care of it immediately. So it's possible, even if unlikely.

 

 

 

 

 

I'd ask then...what does it take? This isn't a court of law where you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. It's OK for 100 pieces of circumstantial evidence to inform us that he's a bad individual who encourages/directs/allows illegal or unethical things to occur. And, due to some personal issues I have with these latest allegations, I'm not even going to discuss his aptitude to own a team. 

 

25 women have spoken out about the culture he's built. Multiple women have either accused him or corroborated the story of him pimping out a cheerleader. There are AT LEAST two cases of him allowing or directing pornography to be produced from a team-sponsored photo shoot. Those videos exist and were given to the Post by a former employee. Who knows what else has been done or exists with a direct smoking gun to Snyder himself. 

 

Enough is enough...this man is a vile human and cannot be allowed to lead any organization at any level. Let him collect his billions and go about his day. And I can't reiterate enough, this has nothing to do with football. I'd be ecstatic if he was replaced today by someone even worse (but a good human). Then I could blindly root for this team again. 

 

Outside of burgundy and gold, this organization has no resemblance to the one I grew up watching and admiring. I'm out until he is. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by TD_washingtonredskins

[profusion]

1 minute ago, mammajamma said:

going to be some infighting within the league for sure, so dont think this will be resolved anytime soon unless dan just decides to take the payday

 

This is why someone like Jerry Jones gets Dan on the phone and says "we can do this the easy way or the hard way."

 

If Dan sells now he makes $2+ billion, doesn't have to pay the litigation team for years on end, and keeps quiet the even-worse stuff the other owners likely have on him.

 

If they want him out, he's gone. 

[mammajamma]

Just now, profusion said:

 

This is why someone like Jerry Jones gets Dan on the phone and says "we can do this the easy way or the hard way."

 

If Dan sells now he makes $2+ billion, doesn't have to pay the litigation team for years on end, and keeps quiet the even-worse stuff the other owners likely have on him.

 

If they want him out, he's gone. 

arent Jerry & Dan friends? plus Jerry has his own dirt, and forcing an owner out over stuff he's probably done himself probably isnt something he's going to jump on right away

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, mammajamma said:

arent Jerry & Dan friends? plus Jerry has his own dirt, and forcing an owner out over stuff he's probably done himself probably isnt something he's going to jump on right away

That's the thing I see holding up any forced action by the other owners. I'm sure stuff like this has happened other places and these guys may not want to pull back the curtain too far. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

9 minutes ago, Bacon said:

 

Do you not remember the passport scandal, when our glorious leader took young females to Costa Rica to pimp them out to sponsors under the pretense of a "photo shoot?" This story from 2004 only confirms an extended pattern of behavior. 

 

He didn't take them, it was a scheduled photoshoot--not "the pretense of a photoshoot". They do them every year, pretty sure the cheerleaders on every team take trips like that.

 

Watching a cheerleader photoshoot is one of the perks of being a sponsor. If nudity is involved, the photographer is completely in charge and could have/SHOULD have made it a closed shoot at the point where he asked for volunteers to shoot some photos that required the women to be topless even though nothing would be seen in the photo.

 

It was established after the article came out that larger companies regularly take the passports of their employees when traveling abroad, and that what the Skins did was not out of the ordinary. I don't recall any cheerleader being declined if they asked for their passports back to go home.

 

No sexual acts were part of the trip to the club with sponsors. None were promised and none were even asked. Even the cheerleaders who went there said so.

 

Sex trafficking is MUCH MUCH worse than what they described Snyder as doing. What he did was sexual harassment since it involved a higher-up in a working relationship (cheerleaders aren't actually employees, they are contractors). Don't diminish sex trafficking by trying to shoehorn this in to fit under that umbrella.

 

 

8 minutes ago, mammajamma said:

obviously true victims of sex trafficking have it worse, but flying women to other countries, taking away their passports, and forcing them to "entertain" rich clients (including going to their hotel rooms with them), is pretty close

 

Read above.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Califan007

[Springfield]

12 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

You mean the writer who was known for writing numerous false "facts" about Snyder (and even this board), who Snyder said included an anti-semitic image of him with the article that the author claimed Snyder was using his wife's cancer to prop himself up? That guy?

Couldn’t tell you. I saw it, and was like “I’ll believe it if a real news source reports it.” And then saw that Snyder sued over it.

 

I just figure that after all this settles down, Snyder will sue the Wapo and people will defend him about all this too. Seeing as how it’s all basically hearsay and Snyder has no smoking gun in his hand. Cause that’s what Snyder does.

[CTskin]

NFL needs to launch an investigation. This article is certainly damning enough to get the ball rolling. All of the “he’s a jerk owner” talk does nothing for the case, but if he requested and distributed videos of cheerleaders unknowingly being taped nude then he should absolutely be forced to sell. The thing is, right now all we have on this incidents are opinions and hearsay, the investigation needs actual proof tying Snyder to this.

 

i don’t think anyone doubts that the weasel would do such a thing, but we need more than finger pointing. 
 

praying this evidence comes out and is quickly followed up by a massive civil suit by the victims.

Edited August 26, 2020 by CTskin

[mammajamma]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

It was established after the article came out that larger companies regularly take the passports of their employees when traveling abroad

Not to derail the thread, but i've never heard of this. Why would they do that?

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to Hobson again on the radio.

Listening to him, he called the video soft core porn so am guessing it is salacious. He said the people who they spoke to off the record about the videos are majorly embarrassed.

 

He suggested rumors of these stories were hot during the Lafemina era but some of those people felt that Lafemina would maybe change the culture but when he was let go that feeling changed. 
 

Some women were outraged when reading the recent stories that referred to Dan changing the culture when in their mind he was part of the problem. That was part of the impetus for some to speak out.  
 

He expects legal action to be taken by some.

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[profusion]

Just now, mammajamma said:

arent Jerry & Dan friends? plus Jerry has his own dirt, and forcing an owner out over stuff he's probably done himself probably isnt something he's going to jump on right away

 

I'm not sure guys like that have "friends" unreservedly.

 

Jerry is undoubtedly the biggest POS in the NFL. That said, he's twice as smart as Dan and twice as ruthless. He makes far more money off "the shield" than Dan does (stadium construction business etc.), and he's not going to let Dan endanger that.

[Dissident2]

14 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Sure you can look at the incidents in an isolated way.  He's been a ****ty owner, I don't deny that, not for a second.  But that's the entire Dan Snyder Catalogue, being a ****ty owner, a bad team, a bad culture. 

 

You CAN, but that doesn't give you even remotely an accurate indication of what you're dealing with. There's a huge difference between how you view someone who's committed one offense vs. someone who's got a long track record of crimes under their belt. Saying he's "a ****ty owner" and leaving it at that doesn't even come close to adequately describing what we're dealing with here. "****ty owner" doesn't necessarily equate to "****ty human." Or do the things he's being accused of in this article. That video deal is skirting very close to an actual crime. What he's stacked up for himself at this point goes well beyond just being a "****ty owner." I guarantee you the NFL is going to look at the entire picture when they start thinking about what they need to do with this guy. And that picture doesn't just include present and past now, but future. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 minutes ago, mammajamma said:

Not to derail the thread, but i've never heard of this. Why would they do that?

 

From what I remember, it was a combo of 1) part of their contract that they give permission for the team to hold their passports when traveling abroad for photo shoots, and 2) no safe place to carry your passport on you during bikini shoots, in which case you should keep it somewhere safe and keeping it with team officials was considered safe. Other larger companies apparently had similar clauses in employee contracts.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, Dissident2 said:

 

You CAN, but that doesn't give you even remotely an accurate indication of what you're dealing with. There's a huge difference between how you view someone who's committed one offense vs. someone who's got a long track record of crimes under their belt. Saying he's "a ****ty owner" and leaving it at that doesn't even come close to adequately describing what we're dealing with here. "****ty owner" doesn't necessarily equate to "****ty human." Or do the things he's being accused of in this article. That video deal is skirting very close to an actual crime. What he's stacked up for himself at this point goes well beyond just being a "****ty owner." I guarantee you the NFL is going to look at the entire picture when they start thinking about what they need to do with this guy. And that picture doesn't just include present and past now, but future. 

 

But he doesn't have any legit crimes under his belt.

 

Dude, I get it.  You hate Snyder, I do, too.  But that's the only thing he can be accused of right now, being a ****ty owner.  And a ****ty human.  

 

I'm sorry, but ordering that someone compiles nip slips on a dvd isn't a crime.  And asking a cheerleader to go to someone's hotel room isn't a crime.  Those are lots of things, gross, pervy, lecherous, distasteful...but not crimes.   

[Bacon]

20 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

He didn't take them, it was a scheduled photoshoot--not "the pretense of a photoshoot". They do them every year, pretty sure the cheerleaders on every team take trips like that.

 

Watching a cheerleader photoshoot is one of the perks of being a sponsor. If nudity is involved, the photographer is completely in charge and could have/SHOULD have made it a closed shoot at the point where he asked for volunteers to shoot some photos that required the women to be topless even though nothing would be seen in the photo.

 

It was established after the article came out that larger companies regularly take the passports of their employees when traveling abroad, and that what the Skins did was not out of the ordinary. I don't recall any cheerleader being declined if they asked for their passports back to go home.

 

No sexual acts were part of the trip to the club with sponsors. None were promised and none were even asked. Even the cheerleaders who went there said so.

 

Sex trafficking is MUCH MUCH worse than what they described Snyder as doing. What he did was sexual harassment since it involved a higher-up in a working relationship (cheerleaders aren't actually employees, they are contractors). Don't diminish sex trafficking by trying to shoehorn this in to fit under that umbrella.

 

I'm not "diminishing sex trafficking" by calling upon the literal definition of the term and applying it to a situation wherein extremely uncomfortable sex-related activity described as "pimping out" took place in another country, after being ordered to go there by their employer.

 

Quote

 

"They weren't putting a gun to our heads, but it was mandatory for us to go," one of the cheerleaders told the Times. "We weren't asked, we were told. Other girls were devastated because we knew exactly what she was doing."

 

Several of the women started to cry as the Redskins' cheerleading director and choreographer, Stephanie Jojokian, told them to go to their hotel rooms to get ready.

 

 

Just because the conditions were cleaner doesn't change how messed up it was. 

 

And there's a lot of deflection in your post. Who cares if it's "normal" for this to happen, for passports to be pulled? Why does that excuse behavior that demeans and potentially endangers women? I'm thinking more broadly about a potential culture change by calling out this behavior, not simply going by what was acceptable a decade ago. This can't continue. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Bacon

[Dissident2]

Just now, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

But he doesn't have any legit crimes under his belt.

 

Dude, I get it.  You hate Snyder, I do, too.  But that's the only thing he can be accused of right now, being a ****ty owner.  And a ****ty human.  

 

I'm sorry, but ordering that someone compiles nip slips on a dvd isn't a crime.  And asking a cheerleader to go to someone's hotel room isn't a crime.  Those are lots of things, gross, pervy, lecherous, distasteful...but not crimes.   

 

You don't get it. It doesn't have to be a "crime." It has to be enough for the NFL owners to think that the guy is a detriment to the league to such a degree that they feel he is hurting their business. We're not talking about sending Snyder to jail here. Just getting him out of the league. There should be plenty there to do that right now. Whether they will or not, we'll see.