2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

17 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

Has there been any other games available for Rondale Moore this year besides Purdue vs Minnesota? I watched his snaps in that game and it looks like he still hasn't recovered the same burst he showed last year. He still had over 130 yards in the game and I loved his willingness to stiff arm anyone, but I wonder if his draft stock is affected in anyway if it takes a little longer for him to be back to normal?

 

There are a bunch on youtube including this one

 

 

[Est.1974]

42 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I'd love to see us grab a game changing athlete like a Kyle Pitts or Rondale Moore, or Jaylen Waddle, if healthy.  My favorite is actually Pitts. 

I’ve really gotten into a Pitts. His burst off the LOS, acceleration through 5 years, catch radius. He looks great. Curious, if he was a ‘labelled’ as a WR, would he be viewed top 10? Could be a great selection. But I think that may be a luxury pick. He does look like he would be fantastic here though. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, Panninho said:

I like that order a lot and it's where I am at as well. I also don't understand the fuss about Smith's speed. First of all I think that 40 times are overrated, so I wouldn't care at all even if he runs a 4.5 (I also think he'll end up in the 4.4-4.5 range). But has anyone seen that dude being caught from behind on tape? Not saying he is a burner but I don't think speed is the major issue we are dealing with here. I could see him struggling with the physicality some because of his size. If he bulks up he might then lose some speed but that's speculation at best.

I see a tremendous route runner who has hands like glue and just makes play after play. I'd be ecstatic if we would draft him in the first. Him, Pitts or one of the LTs would be awesome if we don't go QB. I'd also like Moore or Waddle but Smith is my guy.

 

 

I personally don't care if Smith runs 4.45 versus 4.5 or so.  But I think the naysayers about him focus on he's not big-as far as girth and he's not fast so his physical limitations may limit his ceiling.    I think if he rans faster than expected it may improve his draft stock.  

 

But yeah for me I'd love to have him.  All he does is get open and make plays.  He has the best hands among the Alabama receivers from the last 2 years and is a very underrated YAC guy.  And he's super clutch.

 

5 hours ago, Panninho said:

 

Concerning Etienne/Harris I really lik both of them (like everybody else) but I don't want either of them in the first. In the second, if they are there you have to think hard about it because of the value but I think we can make better investments to upgrade our roster in the first. If we didn't have Antonio Gibson I'd definitely see that different but if I look at our games this year I am not sold that we would have performed so much better if we just had Harris or Etienne as an addition. I'd rather upgrade the line or our receiving core. I get that Turners offense uses a lot of sets with two running backs and you could create some nice mismatches but I'd still rather have an electric receiving threat outside of Terry or a mauler a LT.

 

For me it depends on who else is there and what happens in FA.   I was one of the card carrying fans of the Antonio Gibson club months before we took him.   But his style IMO begs for a back that complements his skills.  I think both Etienne and Harris do just that.  Also, I think Alex has limits as a passer and based on how he plays I believe they would benefit more from dudes who create more in the running game and short passing game.  

[Fresh8686]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

There are a bunch on youtube including this one

 

 

 

Thanks, but that clip says its from 2019. I'm looking for more 2020 games, like Purdue vs Nebraska or Rutgers.

[Anselmheifer]

16 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like them both a lot.  I have seen a lot more of Waddle.  Based on what i've seen from Moore my best description is he's about YAC on steroids, Russell Wilson type moves in the open field but with blazing speed, I didn't see enough deep balls to judge him in the context of being good at tracking.

 

Waddle also has blazing speed and can really track the deep ball well and he's a good YAC guy in the open field, too.  He's electric at times with the ball in his hands but not to the extent of Moore.  He's not as elusive.   

 

Both would fit well here IMO but Moore more so because the dude functions as a backfield threat and a decoy.  So all those reverses, end arounds, sweeps, tosses, etc are tailored made to Turner's offense and Alex's ball handling skills.   And he even takes some handoffs like a RB. 

 

My top concern about Waddle is his injury but it looks like he's on a good path to recover fast.

 

I watched some Bateman tonight, i got to watch more but at the moment he reminds me a lot of Michael Pittman.  based on what I've watched so far, my rankings would be

 

1.  Jamar Chase -- he's so well rounded and does just about everthing well, a bawler, clutch, plays at his best in big games and big spots.  Prototype #1 receiver

 

2: Devonta Smith -- I know some draft geeks think he will run a 4.5 or worse just like they did about Justin Jefferson but what if they are wrong just like they were wrong about Jefferson who ultimately ran faster than expected?  Devonta i think is faster than some think.  Will see.  I bet he runs in the 4.4-4.45 range and if he does it will help his draft stock.    He is so good at seperating and getting open, good YAC guy, great hands, clutch.  My only concern is size-injuries.  But he was arguably the best of the stud Alabama receivers in the last 2 years witout the same fanfare until recently where he's gathered a lot more attention. 

 

3A:  R. Moore:  I talked about him already elsewhere on this post.

 

3B: Waddle:  He's right up there with Moore for me.  But as I talked about on this post I like Moore's fit a little better.  But i would be far from crying if they took Waddle -- he's a fun watch. 

 

5.  Bateman:  Reminds of Pittman.  Tallish, lanky, long strider, strong hands.  More of a possession type.    

 

 

I haven't watched much of the others yet so this likely will change.   

 

 

I agree about a lot of this. I do think that one thing that separates Waddle is his ability to track the deep ball. And he probably was a little faster at top speed, at least before the injury. Having Waddle across from Terry would really push the safeties back, as long as we actually throw the deep ball. It could really open things up for Gibson, in terms of the fronts he would be facing. 

I think I do prefer Rondale Moore however. I think he could be a slightly lesser Tyreek Hill. He's definitely tailor made for the Ron Turner offense. And, a fracture/dislocation in a speed player is worrisome. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I agree about a lot of this. I do think that one thing that separates Waddle is his ability to track the deep ball. And he probably was a little faster at top speed, at least before the injury. Having Waddle across from Terry would really push the safeties back, as long as we actually throw the deep ball. It could really open things up for Gibson, in terms of the fronts he would be facing. 

I think I do prefer Rondale Moore however. I think he could be a slightly lesser Tyreek Hill. He's definitely tailor made for the Ron Turner offense. And, a fracture/dislocation in a speed player is worrisome. 

 

With Alex Smith I prefer Moore.  If we had Zach Wilson I'd prefer Waddle.  To me its that Moore is special with the ball in his hands and thrives in the backfield whereas Waddle is special as a deep threat. 

 

Waddle though is no scrub with the ball in hands -- he's a really good YAC guy.  So for me its close even for this team.  I think Waddle can be a backfield motion type threat, too.   It's just that Moore majored in it at Purdue and is more elusive in the open field.  But overall, its not an easy call for me.  It's really close. 

30 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

Thanks, but that clip says its from 2019. I'm looking for more 2020 games, like Purdue vs Nebraska or Rutgers.

 

OK, he's only played in those 3 this season.  I'd gather the other 2 will be posted at some point soon. 

 

 

So Chase did all of that in just one season? 

[Anselmheifer]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

With Alex Smith I prefer Moore.  If we had Zach Wilson I'd prefer Waddle.  To me its that Moore is special with the ball in his hands and thrives in the backfield whereas Waddle is special as a deep threat. 

 

 

 

Honestly, it's easier to find WR's, or to find production out of the WR spot. Pitts to me is the unicorn of the group. You can't find TE's like him in FA. I'd be so thrilled with him. 

[OVCChairman]

ahem... Jake Ferguson ahem.... 

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

ahem... Jake Ferguson ahem.... 

 

I've been too pushing Ferguson.  He's a rare TE for these days who can both block and also be a receiving threat.  But Pitts is insanely explosive and uniquely so for a TE -- Ferguson I think will be good but not as an explosive threat that matches Pitts.    

35 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Honestly, it's easier to find WR's, or to find production out of the WR spot. Pitts to me is the unicorn of the group. You can't find TE's like him in FA. I'd be so thrilled with him. 

 

Like you I love Pitts but I doubt he will be in the range where we pick.  Yeah I'd easily take him over Moore or Waddle.  Agree that its tough to find TEs with Pitts type of explosiveness than there is at WR. 

[OVCChairman]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been too pushing Ferguson.  He's a rare TE for these days who can both block and also be a receiving threat.  But Pitts is insanely explosive and uniquely so for a TE -- Ferguson I think will be good but not as an explosive threat that matches Pitts.    

 

 

I agree, but I think Pitts gets overdrafted.  I'm not even convinced he's there at 19, and if he is, i want to see the rest of the board before I go Pitts... 

 

edit:  overdrafted is likely not the right word... 

[Anselmheifer]

6 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I agree, but I think Pitts gets overdrafted.  I'm not even convinced he's there at 19, and if he is, i want to see the rest of the board before I go Pitts... 

 

How do you over draft a future All Pro? Top 8 isn't too early for him. 

[OVCChairman]

Just now, Anselmheifer said:

 

How do you over draft a future All Pro? Top 8 isn't too early for him. 

 

 

Yeah maybe Overdrafted is not the right term.

 

sorry, i'll edit that. 

 

I don't think we have a legitimate shot at him, i'll leave it at that. 

[Anselmheifer]

19 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Yeah maybe Overdrafted is not the right term.

 

sorry, i'll edit that. 

 

I don't think we have a legitimate shot at him, i'll leave it at that. 

 

I think/hope you are right, for the first time in years. I think we go on a mini run here and pick up at least two more wins. Six wins is going to be too many for Pitts. 

 

Edit: I still think we wind up drafting low enough that our best team in 2021 would be a 1st round OT, big time FA WR, Alex Smith, and upgrading LB/FS and maybe even CB. So easily achievable in an offseason and would also push us not to have a bare cupboard if we need to trade up in the 2022 draft for a QB. 

[mistertim]

I absolutely love Pitts but let's be honest here...he's basically a big bodied WR, not a true TE. He doesn't block much and when he does he's extremely mediocre at it. Gronk he ain't. I'd be fine taking him high as long as we're realistic about his skillset.

[OVCChairman]

12 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I think/hope you are right, for the first time in years. I think we go on a mini run here and pick up at least two more wins. Six wins is going to be too many for Pitts. 

 

are you saying this would be the first time i was right in years? 😜

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I absolutely love Pitts but let's be honest here...he's basically a big bodied WR, not a true TE. He doesn't block much and when he does he's extremely mediocre at it. Gronk he ain't. I'd be fine taking him high as long as we're realistic about his skillset.

 

 

this is kind of my thought process when I said "overdrafted" but I don't want to take away from his talent level.  He's elite as a pass catcher, but you're right, he's not Gronk or Kittle.  He's a lot closer to Jordan Reed.  If the right team drafts his and uses him correctly, he's not overdrafted if he goes top 15, but if the wrong team drafts him and slams him into a wall 50% of the time trying to run block, they will be disappointed.  

[Anselmheifer]

7 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

are you saying this would be the first time i was right in years? 😜

 

 

this is kind of my thought process when I said "overdrafted" but I don't want to take away from his talent level.  He's elite as a pass catcher, but you're right, he's not Gronk or Kittle.  He's a lot closer to Jordan Reed.  If the right team drafts his and uses him correctly, he's not overdrafted if he goes top 15, but if the wrong team drafts him and slams him into a wall 50% of the time trying to run block, they will be disappointed.  

I would kill for a Jordan Reed on this team. Do you remember how good our offense was with Jordan Reed clicking? And Pitts is like Jordan Reed if he were waaaay taller, longer and faster. I also think Pitts has bulked up and is not nearly as bad a blocker as Jordan Reed. And we have Logan Thomas, who would be a nice complementary TE. 

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I would kill for a Jordan Reed on this team. Do you remember how good our offense was with Jordan Reed clicking? And Pitts is like Jordan Reed if he were waaaay taller, longer and faster. I also think Pitts has bulked up and is not nearly as bad a blocker as Jordan Reed. And we have Logan Thomas, who would be a nice complementary TE. 

 

From what I've watched Pitts is every bit the bad blocker that Reed was. That being said, I would absolutely be fine with taking him, as long as we're realistic about his strengths and don't try to force a square peg into a round hole. That's why I've said that I see him much more as a WR than a true TE.

[OVCChairman]

4 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I would kill for a Jordan Reed on this team. Do you remember how good our offense was with Jordan Reed clicking? And Pitts is like Jordan Reed if he were waaaay taller, longer and faster. I also think Pitts has bulked up and is not nearly as bad a blocker as Jordan Reed. And we have Logan Thomas, who would be a nice complementary TE. 

 

 

I feel like i'm coming across like I don't 'want' Pitts and that's not the case.. 

[PartyPosse]

If we draft Pitts then that means Smith is the QB next year.

 

 

[Est.1974]

58 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I absolutely love Pitts but let's be honest here...he's basically a big bodied WR, not a true TE. He doesn't block much and when he does he's extremely mediocre at it. Gronk he ain't. I'd be fine taking him high as long as we're realistic about his skillset.

I think I would agree with this.

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

I would kill for a Jordan Reed on this team. Do you remember how good our offense was with Jordan Reed clicking? And Pitts is like Jordan Reed if he were waaaay taller, longer and faster. I also think Pitts has bulked up and is not nearly as bad a blocker as Jordan Reed. And we have Logan Thomas, who would be a nice complementary TE. 

In his best years, Reed did have Jackson and Garcon meaning it was highly likely he was going to get mis-matches. He also had a QB that had multiple good seasons. Finally, his OC was a genius and even Norv Gruden was a very good pass play designer.

[max21]

Just watched a bunch of highlights on Jack Jones, kinda small more of a finesse kind of corner but super quick and aggressive. Not the best with the run seems like, wonder where he will go. Thought he was more of a sleeper pick but seems to be on a few draft boards 

[NFC Beast1987]

16 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I personally don't care if Smith runs 4.45 versus 4.5 or so.  But I think the naysayers about him focus on he's not big-as far as girth and he's not fast so his physical limitations may limit his ceiling.    I think if he rans faster than expected it may improve his draft stock.  

 

But yeah for me I'd love to have him.  All he does is get open and make plays.  He has the best hands among the Alabama receivers from the last 2 years and is a very underrated YAC guy.  And he's super clutch.

 

 

For me it depends on who else is there and what happens in FA.   I was one of the card carrying fans of the Antonio Gibson club months before we took him.   But his style IMO begs for a back that complements his skills.  I think both Etienne and Harris do just that.  Also, I think Alex has limits as a passer and based on how he plays I believe they would benefit more from dudes who create more in the running game and short passing game.  

My boy Javonte Williams.. Best running back I've ever seen at UNC. Absolute monster.

[Est.1974]

On 12/9/2020 at 12:56 PM, KDawg said:

 

Micah Parsons (Penn State) - Best of the lot. Great change of direction, can pressure and cover. Not a thumper. He uses finesse, speed and technical moves to get beyond blockers. His game should translate fairly well at the NFL level as he doesn't rely on brute strength. He is the best of the group. 

picking top ten range , I think with a returning Alex Smith, Rivera would struggle to watch anyone else select Parsons. He’d want him here.

[Panninho]

13 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

From what I've watched Pitts is every bit the bad blocker that Reed was. That being said, I would absolutely be fine with taking him, as long as we're realistic about his strengths and don't try to force a square peg into a round hole. That's why I've said that I see him much more as a WR than a true TE.

Pitts has ways to go as a blocker that is true but I think what sets him apart from guys like Reed is that I feel like Pitts wants to block, he is just not good at it. With Reed I mostly felt like he did not really care about blocking and you need to have a certain attitude alongside with technique if you want to block other guys at the NFL level. So if that skillset is not yet high-end but the willingness is there it surely can be developed.