KDawg Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 54 minutes ago, Panninho said: Pitts has ways to go as a blocker that is true but I think what sets him apart from guys like Reed is that I feel like Pitts wants to block, he is just not good at it. With Reed I mostly felt like he did not really care about blocking and you need to have a certain attitude alongside with technique if you want to block other guys at the NFL level. So if that skillset is not yet high-end but the willingness is there it surely can be developed. Still, to start Pitts should be looked at as a receiver with room to grow into a tight end. Is Pitts better than the other receivers on the board... that will be the question. I haven’t totally decided yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panninho Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 1 hour ago, KDawg said: Still, to start Pitts should be looked at as a receiver with room to grow into a tight end. Is Pitts better than the other receivers on the board... that will be the question. I haven’t totally decided yet... I think that is a bit of an overreaction. We all know that Pitts right now isn't spectacular at blocking but it's not like he is an absolute liability and cannot be trusted in that respect. PFF has him graded as a decent pass pro blocker and a slightly above average run blocker. Now those grades should not be taken too seriously (because they grade only outcome and not technique) but they watch grade every snap after all. You might want to ease him into some more demanding blocking assignments early but I would not look at him as a WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Panninho said: I think that is a bit of an overreaction. We all know that Pitts right now isn't spectacular at blocking but it's not like he is an absolute liability and cannot be trusted in that respect. PFF has him graded as a decent pass pro blocker and a slightly above average run blocker. Now those grades should not be taken too seriously (because they grade only outcome and not technique) but they watch grade every snap after all. You might want to ease him into some more demanding blocking assignments early but I would not look at him as a WR. It’s not an overreaction in the least. Its not stating that he can’t develop. It’s his up front value. His upfront value is as a matchup problem in the slot. His bonus potential is full fledged in line tight end. Theres quite a big reason to draft him: we have an in-line tight end. Now, we may get rid of him after his contract is up, but I think that would be a mistake. That means that in the current roster, Pitts’ skill set would fit perfect as a matchup nightmare in the slot. So the question isn’t “is Pitts worth it?” He is. The question is: “If Rondale Moore is on the board, and we’re going pass catcher, is it more advantageous for us to draft him and move McLaurin to the slot or is it more advantageous to draft Pitts, leave McLaurin outside and see if Pitts can develop his blocking?” Theres the hang up. Willingness to do things is great. It’s a major character thumbs up on these guys. But I wanted to be an NFL football player and the 5-8 200 lb 4.8 40 kept me at bay. Thats not to say it’s impossible for Pitts to turn into a blocker. It is to say that he’s not that right now and you have to weigh the whole thing out. And one of those things to weigh is a second contract... is a top receiver + McLaurin going to cost more than a top tight end / slot + McLaurin. Lots of factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panninho Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 The reason why I think it is an overreaction is because I don't really get that upfront value perspective. This is the draft and not free agency. Yeah, coming in he might not be more than a great mismatch as a slot receiver but you'll hold his rights for 5 years. I mean you talk about his potential to develop and how high you weigh that. But why would you then basically evaluate him as a WR and as such judge him against slot receivers coming in? You'd only do that if you absolutely don't believe he can develop into a servicable blocking TE or if you are drafting as a superbowl contender and try to fill your holes as well as possible. And that he is a willing blocker has also helped him to quite improve his game in that respect since last year so it's not like it's wishful thinking. Now if you or the scouting departments rates Moore higher that's fair enough. I just don't think it makes sense to basically evaluate those two players for the same role going forward just because you might have to use them similarly in year 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Pitts may not be a good blocker, but he definitely wants to do it. He's north Philly, so I know he's tough AF. He wanted to be a TE, not a QB or WR, so I know he cares about the position. A TE is a QBs best friend and we will have a rookie QB soon enough. Another weapon for Terry would help as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 51 minutes ago, Panninho said: The reason why I think it is an overreaction is because I don't really get that upfront value perspective. This is the draft and not free agency. Yeah, coming in he might not be more than a great mismatch as a slot receiver but you'll hold his rights for 5 years. I mean you talk about his potential to develop and how high you weigh that. But why would you then basically evaluate him as a WR and as such judge him against slot receivers coming in? You'd only do that if you absolutely don't believe he can develop into a servicable blocking TE or if you are drafting as a superbowl contender and try to fill your holes as well as possible. And that he is a willing blocker has also helped him to quite improve his game in that respect since last year so it's not like it's wishful thinking. Now if you or the scouting departments rates Moore higher that's fair enough. I just don't think it makes sense to basically evaluate those two players for the same role going forward just because you might have to use them similarly in year 1. 32 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Pitts may not be a good blocker, but he definitely wants to do it. He's north Philly, so I know he's tough AF. He wanted to be a TE, not a QB or WR, so I know he cares about the position. A TE is a QBs best friend and we will have a rookie QB soon enough. Another weapon for Terry would help as well. Again, I don’t care what he wants to be. He’s a receiver who can block at times. That’s what I see. I won’t shut the door on his development as a blocker. He certainly can do that. But when you draft him you have to evaluate him as a receiver who can develop as a tight end, not the other way... in my opinion. And he still may wind up being a better option than anything else on the board. I’m not sure why you guys think that’s a knock on him. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, KDawg said: Again, I don’t care what he wants to be. He’s a receiver who can block at times. That’s what I see. I won’t shut the door on his development as a blocker. He certainly can do that. But when you draft him you have to evaluate him as a receiver who can develop as a tight end, not the other way... in my opinion. And he still may wind up being a better option than anything else on the board. I’m not sure why you guys think that’s a knock on him. *shrug* Not sure why you quoted me in that. Yes, he is a receiving TE who can improve at being an inline blocker. I'm saying that he is a willing blocker and wants to improve, but a TE that can get open and catch anything is a young QBs best friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 I asked this question the other day on Pitts, if he was classed as a WR in this draft where would he rank? Should have added, I also think Rivera now classes Logan Thomas as a true #1 TE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panninho Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, KDawg said: Again, I don’t care what he wants to be. He’s a receiver who can block at times. That’s what I see. I won’t shut the door on his development as a blocker. He certainly can do that. But when you draft him you have to evaluate him as a receiver who can develop as a tight end, not the other way... in my opinion. And he still may wind up being a better option than anything else on the board. I’m not sure why you guys think that’s a knock on him. *shrug* All I am saying is that evaluating him with the mindset "Is Pitts better than the other receivers on the board... that will be the question" is basically excluding all of his potential in that respect and makes you evaluate him exclusively as a WR. Which is something I am not on board with as far as the draft is concerned. This is all about potential. Yeah I agree, he is a receiving force with potential to further develop as a tight end but the other WRs don't bring that further potential with them. Or do you see the upside with Rondale Moore that he might be capable to block a DE to a servicable degree? So why evaluate him solely based on his receiving talent against the other WRs' receiving talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 21 minutes ago, Panninho said: All I am saying is that evaluating him with the mindset "Is Pitts better than the other receivers on the board... that will be the question" is basically excluding all of his potential in that respect and makes you evaluate him exclusively as a WR. Which is something I am not on board with as far as the draft is concerned. This is all about potential. Yeah I agree, he is a receiving force with potential to further develop as a tight end but the other WRs don't bring that further potential with them. Or do you see the upside with Rondale Moore that he might be capable to block a DE to a servicable degree? So why evaluate him solely based on his receiving talent against the other WRs' receiving talent? Rondale Moore isn't be advertised as a tight end. Otherwise, that would be part of my evaluation of him... as a tight end. Pitts potential as a blocker is worse, in my opinion, than Bushman, Freiermuth, Long, etc. His potential as a receiver is better. By a good bit. In the NFL he will mostly be used in the slot to start, most likely. Again, that doesn't mean he doesn't transition or can't. But you can only evaluate based on what you've seen. Blocking isn't one of those things that generally just changes on its head when you've been asked to do it and have struggled a bit with it. You want to play to your player's strengths. Right now that's Pitts being in the slot and making safeties and LBs look bad and abusing small corners. It's not dismissing potential. His blocking ability should weight into any decision you make in selecting a receiver in general. I haven't looked at this wide receiver class in depth with the 2020 film as a benefit and I haven't focused as much on blocking yet. I'm not sure how he stacks up as a blocker versus Rondale Moore. His size is certainly better. 6-6 240 vs. 5-9 180. His blocking ability in the slot to reach a corner/safety/LB is definitely going to be better than a Rondale Moore. So his blocking/size absolutely factor in. I still don't see him as an in-line tight end and with his receiving skills I wouldn't want to waste him blocking defensive ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 He will and he can, but he can also be used in the slot on other plays, especially with Thomas on the team. You can also motion him from the slot, to the line to block or chip a rusher. He is a TE, not a WR, but the fact that you want to evaluate him against the WRs, proves how valuable he is as a TE in the receiving game and that's huge. I doubt he has the same Reed-esque injury concerns either with that size. Imagine you're a rookie QB on the bench watching Alex Smith teach Pitts how to play in that offense for a year and how much it helps you when you take over. My goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: He will and he can, but he can also be used in the slot on other plays, especially with Thomas on the team. You can also motion him from the slot, to the line to block or chip a rusher. He is a TE, not a WR, but the fact that you want to evaluate him against the WRs, proves how valuable he is as a TE in the receiving game and that's huge. I doubt he has the same Reed-esque injury concerns either with that size. Imagine you're a rookie QB on the bench watching Alex Smith teach Pitts how to play in that offense for a year and how much it helps you when you take over. My goodness. Your second paragraph is exactly my point of him being evaluated as a receiver.Though I’m not sure he can block guys like Chase Young with any kind of regularity. Chip and release? Sure. But the second paragraph sums it up well. He’s a fantastic receiver that should be looked at as a valuable slot receiver that can once in awhile be used in line. Any team making him a full time in line guy would be making a significant mistake unless he turns into Kittle. His blocking isn’t good enough and his receiving is too damn good to be stuck as an in-line guy. His size allows you to use him in that role at times, though, and that versatility certainly factors into my evaluation. He is very likely my #1 slot guy. Between him and Waddle who is also very versatile... but I think I prefer the Pitts style of versatility. For what it’s worth, I don’t consider Brevin Jordan a tight end, either. My prototypical tight end is still going to be in college. Jalen Wydermyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panninho Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 22 minutes ago, KDawg said: Rondale Moore isn't be advertised as a tight end. Otherwise, that would be part of my evaluation of him... as a tight end. Pitts potential as a blocker is worse, in my opinion, than Bushman, Freiermuth, Long, etc. His potential as a receiver is better. By a good bit. In the NFL he will mostly be used in the slot to start, most likely. Again, that doesn't mean he doesn't transition or can't. But you can only evaluate based on what you've seen. Blocking isn't one of those things that generally just changes on its head when you've been asked to do it and have struggled a bit with it. You want to play to your player's strengths. Right now that's Pitts being in the slot and making safeties and LBs look bad and abusing small corners. It's not dismissing potential. His blocking ability should weight into any decision you make in selecting a receiver in general. I haven't looked at this wide receiver class in depth with the 2020 film as a benefit and I haven't focused as much on blocking yet. I'm not sure how he stacks up as a blocker versus Rondale Moore. His size is certainly better. 6-6 240 vs. 5-9 180. His blocking ability in the slot to reach a corner/safety/LB is definitely going to be better than a Rondale Moore. So his blocking/size absolutely factor in. I still don't see him as an in-line tight end and with his receiving skills I wouldn't want to waste him blocking defensive ends. Well yeah, Rondale Moore isn't advertised as a TE and Pitts isn't advertised as a WR - so why evaluate him purely as a WR and as such against the other WRs in the class? That's basically all I am saying. Yeah, you ultimately have to make a decision on who you take, the WR or the TE but to make that decision purely on who is the better receiver now isn't the way to go. It's absolutely okay if you don't see him as an in-line TE and obviously you don't want him to block DEs a lot of the time I am not arguing for that. I am just saying that in certain packages you can use him in a variety of different ways that you could not use a guys like Rondale Moore in. But yeah, obviously you disagree with that and that's okay for me. I just don't think that's the way to go with a guy like Pitts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Panninho said: Well yeah, Rondale Moore isn't advertised as a TE and Pitts isn't advertised as a WR - so why evaluate him purely as a WR and as such against the other WRs in the class? That's basically all I am saying. Yeah, you ultimately have to make a decision on who you take, the WR or the TE but to make that decision purely on who is the better receiver now isn't the way to go. It's absolutely okay if you don't see him as an in-line TE and obviously you don't want him to block DEs a lot of the time I am not arguing for that. I am just saying that in certain packages you can use him in a variety of different ways that you could not use a guys like Rondale Moore in. But yeah, obviously you disagree with that and that's okay for me. I just don't think that's the way to go with a guy like Pitts. It’s my opinion that the term tight end is too general. I’d have it split three ways in today’s more modern day league. Tight End = End that’s tight to the line of scrimmage. Y = guy who can play a little in line but is detached more than attached. Receiver primary specialist. H = Moving blocker who can catch but lacks the ability to run a full route tree. In this draft: TE = Long, Bushman, Freiermuth, Ferguson Y = Pitts, Jordan H = haven’t deep dove enough to find these guys yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max21 Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Anyone have any sleeper corners? Tyson Campell is someone I watched this morning some, big frame and very mobile. Needs to stay healthy but it would be nice to have a big body lengthy defensive back other than Curl, not really in love with our CBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 1 hour ago, max21 said: Anyone have any sleeper corners? Tyson Campell is someone I watched this morning some, big frame and very mobile. Needs to stay healthy but it would be nice to have a big body lengthy defensive back other than Curl, not really in love with our CBs Haven’t looked at the big names yet. I usually start sleepers during bowl season and finish just before the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 DeVanta Smith with a punt return. Dude is a machine. I don’t know if I have him above Chase... but he’s putting himself in the convo for sure. Electric. And he goes and makes plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 QB Jay Bentley breaks 3 tackles on 1 run. Runs like a FB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 I liked Mac Jones today. He has a fast release, climbs the pocket and scans the field. He is prone to some really floaty throws at times and makes some strange decisions (that pick in the end zone was brutal). But he looks like a NFL guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Mohammed Ibrahim from Minnesota, a 5-10, 210 pound back, is a guy that has pretty good vision and runs a lot bigger than he is. He’s a guy that could be a power back replacement for Barber, though I have a feeling we stick with Barber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Yoda Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 I've been watching Trask today on YouTube, and I've got to say he has a pretty special arm. This is a perfect time to draft a guy like Trask because the NFL really values dual threat QBs right now and his stock is taking a hit because that isn't who he is. I like where he puts the football on his throws and he seems to have a great idea when there needs to be touch on his passes. I would love drafting him and having him sit behind Alex Smith for a year while having him get comfortable learning the offense. Are there any other noticable knocks on Trask besides his mobility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 34 minutes ago, KDawg said: I liked Mac Jones today. He has a fast release, climbs the pocket and scans the field. He is prone to some really floaty throws at times and makes some strange decisions (that pick in the end zone was brutal). But he looks like a NFL guy. There was a pretty spirited debate going on between Dan Orlovsky and some other guy about where he should be drafted. Orlovsky thinks bottom of 1st, top of 2nd. But also, he was saying he needs an NFL offense designed around him because he's primarily a pocket passer. He wasnt saying that in a bad way because a lot of successful guys are that. Je mentioned big Ben, Brady and Goff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, HigSkin said: There was a pretty spirited debate going on between Dan Orlovsky and some other guy about where he should be drafted. Orlovsky thinks bottom of 1st, top of 2nd. But also, he was saying he needs an NFL offense designed around him because he's primarily a pocket passer. He wasnt saying that in a bad way because a lot of successful guys are that. Je mentioned big Ben, Brady and Goff. Well, right now Scott Turner’s O would do fine with a pocket passer. To me, to be a pocket passer in the league long term there’s a few criteria: 1) Tremendous accuracy 2) Consistent mechanics 3) Ability to climb the pocket and throw with pressure on its way. 4) Ice in the veins situationally Or the ability to develop those factors. Trask checks most of those boxes. Though I am fairly curious how he responds in big situations. We’ll see one next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 6 hours ago, Panninho said: Well yeah, Rondale Moore isn't advertised as a TE and Pitts isn't advertised as a WR - so why evaluate him purely as a WR and as such against the other WRs in the class? That's basically all I am saying. Yeah, you ultimately have to make a decision on who you take, the WR or the TE but to make that decision purely on who is the better receiver now isn't the way to go. It's absolutely okay if you don't see him as an in-line TE and obviously you don't want him to block DEs a lot of the time I am not arguing for that. I am just saying that in certain packages you can use him in a variety of different ways that you could not use a guys like Rondale Moore in. But yeah, obviously you disagree with that and that's okay for me. I just don't think that's the way to go with a guy like Pitts. Hes a TE, not a slot WR. Thats just an absurd line to take. 6 hours ago, KDawg said: It’s my opinion that the term tight end is too general. I’d have it split three ways in today’s more modern day league. Tight End = End that’s tight to the line of scrimmage. Y = guy who can play a little in line but is detached more than attached. Receiver primary specialist. H = Moving blocker who can catch but lacks the ability to run a full route tree. In this draft: TE = Long, Bushman, Freiermuth, Ferguson Y = Pitts, Jordan H = haven’t deep dove enough to find these guys yet. So, Mckissic is a WR not a RB. You are on a long reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Hes a TE, not a slot WR. Thats just an absurd line to take. So, Mckissic is a WR not a RB. You are on a long reach. Im not, but that’s okay that you disagree. I don’t think you’re looking at it technically enough, but to each their own. I don’t think he’s a TE until he plays more in-line than detached. McKissick is a receiving back, not a pure runner. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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