2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Redskins Reparations]

Anyone have an update on Walker Little's rehab?  If his medical comes back clean during the combine I would love to draft him with our second rounder.

[IrepDC]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Owusu is more of an outside guy than inside, for sure. He’d replace KPL. 
 

I’m looking more at MIKE types personally...

We are on the same page there 100%. A downhill Mike who actually shoots his gap.

[Going Commando]

Did a mock on TDN where I got Owusu-Koromoah round 1, Rondale Moore round 2, and Javonte Williams and Paris Ford round 3. That'd be quite the haul for the first two days of the draft.  Imagine playing offense against a group like that and the hits you would take.

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

This is a good comparison, and one I hadn't thought of before.  In some ways, his coverage skills make him more of a candidate for a Derwin James-style SS role since you are comfortable giving him so much field to cover and you want to give him room to work around blocks from bigger players.

 

He's a bit of a tough evaluation because he's raw and not a super heady/polished player yet, and thus it's tough to envision what he can ultimately become.  The biggest frustrations I have with him are that he gets fooled on misdirection too much and he doesn't always find the right balance of urgency vs patience and his instincts are just OK rather than elite.  There are a few too many times where he's just overrunning plays or getting planted on his ass by bigger blockers because he just went at them with no thought to creating leverage.  But then you'll see plays like this where you're like "Oh my god!"

 

 

 

Tremendous natural talent and aggression.  If he can develop his diagnostic skills and make faster and cleaner reads, then I think he could be special.  I'd like to see this specific coaching staff get a chance to teach him.  You temper that aggression and ability to work gap to gap and still fire like a missile into the play with strong instincts and you've got an elite playmaker.

 

The other thing I like about a player like him is he could help take away a lot of these quick reads inside of the numbers that the Steelers carved us up with.  Help give the DL that extra step or clutch to get home on their rushes.  And as you say, he can be a weapon as a blitzer too.  So there are a lot of different ways for him to stay on the field on pass downs.

Wow. I hadn't watched much of him and now wish I had. He hits like a missile. He seems like he'd be a perfect nickel LB behind our DL. I just don't know about adding a LB in the 1st though. I know our defense would be solidified by an ILB, a FS and a CB. But, our defense is honestly already so good. Next year, with Chase in his 2nd year and getting Ioannidis back, I'd expect us to be even better. 

Watching us against Pittsburgh and especially San Francisco, I can't help but think that with a legitimate offense, we would already be contenders. We HAVE to invest heavily in the offense, and we NEED a QB. We are going to run into the point of decreasing returns investing in the defense. Quickly. How many more wins are we going to get if we go from being the 3rd best defense in the league to the 1st? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SIP, if Zach Wilson falls to 12 and we don't trade up, I'm going to lose my mind. I want Dak or Zach this off season. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I just watched a game of Elijah Moore and a few highlight videos.  That dude also I think can be a really good slot receiver.

 

He's about the same size as Rondale Moore.  So he's a speedster.  He's not in Rondale's league as a YAC guy.  But like Rondale they use him in the backfield a lot.  He's a slot receiver, they moved him at times to Z.   He might be the more polished receiver than Rondale.   He has really good hands from what i've watched.  He has an incredible double move.    If they don't get Rondale, he's not a bad consultation prize IMO.  He's really fast, really dynamic.   A fun watch.    The more I delve into this receiver class the less i want one in round 1. 

 

Like Rondale, Elijah is an exciting player IMO.  i'd go Randle over him but i wouldn't be crying over landing Elijah i think he will be a really good player.   Reminds me some of Duvernay.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

SIP, if Zach Wilson falls to 12 and we don't trade up, I'm going to lose my mind. I want Dak or Zach this off season. 

 

yeah me, too.  This team can make it to the big dance IMO in short order if we had a QB.  Right now, as i said in the FA thread earlier today i'd be willing to trade draft capital to get a QB. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

yeah me, too.  This team can make it to the big dance IMO in short order if we had a QB.  Right now, as i said in the FA thread earlier today i'd be willing to trade draft capital to get a QB. 

 

Before our run, I thought we were too far away in terms of talent to make that trade. Now, I think that with an entire DL on rookie contracts, and a franchise QB on a rookie contract, we would have enough cap room to fill out the roster in FA. Even just this year, we could sign Allen Robinson and Lavonte David for instance, draft a speedy slot guy and a RB in the 3rd. I honestly think we could afford an RGIII trade to get our QB of the future. Not that I want to give up that much. But with this defense and a top 10 QB, we would go deep into the playoffs every year. All other considerations secondary. 

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

SIP, if Zach Wilson falls to 12 and we don't trade up, I'm going to lose my mind. I want Dak or Zach this off season. 

Or Trey Lance at 16. Watching Lamar Jackson makes me love the idea of Lance doing that for us 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Or Trey Lance at 16. Watching Lamar Jackson makes me love the idea of Lance doing that for us 

 This is where Lance is extremely intriguing. Even if he comes in and for a half he is 3/10 for 27 yards passing... he’s a threat to run for 85 yards on 6 carries and 2 TD in that same half. 
 

The biggest issue with runners is the injury cycle. So while he can lean on it for a bit he’d need to develop as a passer. 
 

He really reminds me a lot of Josh Allen. In many, many ways.

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 This is where Lance is extremely intriguing. Even if he comes in and for a half he is 3/10 for 27 yards passing... he’s a threat to run for 85 yards on 6 carries and 2 TD in that same half. 
 

The biggest issue with runners is the injury cycle. So while he can lean on it for a bit he’d need to develop as a passer. 
 

He really reminds me a lot of Josh Allen. In many, many ways.

If he drops out of the top 10, we HAVE to move up to get him.

[mhd24]

If Alex retires, would you trade our 1st straight up for Stafford (where Detroit decides to rebuild)?

 

 

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

If Alex retires, would you trade our 1st straight up for Stafford (where Detroit decides to rebuild)?

 

 

**** no.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

If Alex retires, would you trade our 1st straight up for Stafford (where Detroit decides to rebuild)?

 

 

I don’t think so. Stafford has been accumulating a lot of torso injuries. He’d probably come out okay, but that risk is very high to land a QB who is going to cost a Brinks trunk and a extremely valuable asset and rookie 5 year contract.

[Riggo#44]

We've been doing well building through the draft. We need to stick to that

[Anselmheifer]

6 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

If Alex retires, would you trade our 1st straight up for Stafford (where Detroit decides to rebuild)?

 

 

 

No. But I'd honestly give Dallas our first for Dak. 

Regarding Lance, I wouldn't love the pick, but I would definitely want to see to see us implement a run heavy offense and try to utilize his strengths. Build the OL. Upgrade our RB depth. Add some more versatile athletes for stressing a defense horizontally and in space. 

3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

We've been doing well building through the draft. We need to stick to that

 

This is such a simplistic view. Look at Buffalo. They built in the draft and then made a huge trade for Stefon Diggs and look how much it has helped them. The chiefs moved up for Mahommes. The Texans for Watson. Etc etc. 

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

This is such a simplistic view. Look at Buffalo. They built in the draft and then made a huge trade for Stefon Diggs and look how much it has helped them. The chiefs moved up for Mahommes. The Texans for Watson. Etc etc. 

Don't get me wrong, I am all for moving up for Wilson or Lance, which is still building through the draft. The Diggs trade is a bit different too, Diggs is much younger and in his prime--not the same for Stafford. Also, Buffalo has their QB. We don't. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

I'd probably **** my pants if we had this draft in real life because I think we'd have a near championship level roster in a year or two. Especially if we got a WR in FA. Really my only major concern would be OT. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Before our run, I thought we were too far away in terms of talent to make that trade. Now, I think that with an entire DL on rookie contracts, and a franchise QB on a rookie contract, we would have enough cap room to fill out the roster in FA. Even just this year, we could sign Allen Robinson and Lavonte David for instance, draft a speedy slot guy and a RB in the 3rd. I honestly think we could afford an RGIII trade to get our QB of the future. Not that I want to give up that much. But with this defense and a top 10 QB, we would go deep into the playoffs every year. All other considerations secondary. 

 

Pretty much the same with me.  I also felt we were too far away.  Every team has weaknesses but I thought we had too many.  Now, I think we can shore up enough of them in the off season and also upgrade the QB spot.  I think we can do both.  If we had a Qb right now we'd be dangerous in 2020 let alone 2021. 

[Going Commando]

8 hours ago, mhd24 said:

If Alex retires, would you trade our 1st straight up for Stafford (where Detroit decides to rebuild)?

 

I'd do it for lesser compensation I think.  A first is too rich for him due to age, 34 million cap hit, and recent injury history.

 

An Alex Smith style trade of third and a player is seriously tempting.  And as a bonus, it'd definitely make me feel better about only getting a third back for Trent.  Ioannidis and Settle seem like the most likely trade options.  Or something like a third and fifth package like Detroit got for Darius Slay could make sense as well.

 

I think the vet options are our best path forward tbh.  I think we'll be picking late this year, I don't trust this organization's ability to develop a raw QB, and the defense is almost fully built and ready to contend.  If we get Stafford and another good draft class, this team could contend next year.

[Skinsinparadise]

Desmond Ridder doesn't look as fast as Lance but he's still fast, runs a 4.6.  He doesn't have Lance's arm strength but still has a strong arm.    I think what dogs Ridder is he was somewhat of a late bloomer, he has some bad tape, his game has emerged as opposed to being consistently good.  His accuracy I think is decent but not always razor sharp but I think he's less raw than Lance.  If you are fishing in that 2nd tier group, you aren't getting the polished diamonds, they will have holes in their game but I actually like that he's getting better.  Yet, I do get concerns about QBs who haven't been super consistent.   I notice Ridder's big critics have been PFF but wonder if they've softened on him some of late since he's really come on. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I'd do it for lesser compensation I think.  A first is too rich for him due to age, 34 million cap hit, and recent injury history.

 

An Alex Smith style trade of third and a player is seriously tempting.  And as a bonus, it'd definitely make me feel better about only getting a third back for Trent.  Ioannidis and Settle seem like the most likely trade options.  Or something like a third and fifth package like Detroit got for Darius Slay could make sense as well.

 

I think the vet options are our best path forward tbh.  I think we'll be picking late this year, I don't trust this organization's ability to develop a raw QB, and the defense is almost fully built and ready to contend.  If we get Stafford and another good draft class, this team could contend next year.

 

I trust this coaching staff to develop players including Qbs but I wonder about our window?   We got a young killer D line that right now is cheap.  That's not lasting forever.  So having a QB who can hit the ground running would help.  But I doubt we will have many options.  I'd take Stafford over Alex.   The other QB that some mention is Matt Ryan but I think his contract is prohibitive for them to trade him right now.  Unless I am missing something I think our veteran options are slim. 

[KDawg]

I think Ridder may be staying in college. His draft stock may be higher next year. This draft is going to be really top heavy. We'll see. 

[KDawg]

 Desmond Ridder (Cincinnati QB) vs Houston (2020) - YouTube

 

So I watched this game of Ridder vs. Houston.

 

Some things I noticed:

 

The overwhelming majority of his throws are to the field. He rarely works the boundary side of the formation, and he is definitely only reading one side of the defense on any given play unless it's four seams, then he looks to the scouting matchup. 

 

His arm is... kind of meh. And he laser locks on his targets a good majority of the time. He lofts the ball and doesn't get a lot of juice under it. 

 

He lives on throws across the field near the numbers to the outside. That's not going to translate well. 

 

He makes his living on zone read running plays, which will work a little in the NFL but I don't think he's fast enough to pull it off on a regular basis, and he is kind of small so he's going to take a ferocious beating. 

 

He throws a good jump ball in the end zone. Outside shoulder, up and away from defenders. Bucket drop. 

 

He throws the ball behind his receivers more often than I'd like to see. 

 

He has a good feeling for running lanes and he is shifty and elusive, but he takes a lot of hits. 

 

Desmond Ridder vs. East Carolina 11/13/20 - YouTube

 

Watched this one, too. 

 

Not much different here. Though I did notice he throws a very good crossing route leading his receiver and allowing them a good YAC play. 

 

His sideline fade ball stands out. He is really good at those throws when they are thrown in that 20-30 yard window downfield. Any longer and his arm is a hindrance. 

 

Anything that isn't a fade ball to the outside and his accuracy is all over the map.

 

I've only seen bits and pieces of him until this point but I come away largely unimpressed by him. 

 

Honestly, he seems like a lesser version of Sam Ehlinger. Ehlinger has faced better competition, has ice in his veins, scans the field better, relies less on the zone read and is a similar type of thrower. Also a good runner. Ehlinger is a lot less decisive than Ridder, though. 

[KDawg]

A guy to keep an eye on at QB:

 

Holton Ahlers (ECU QB #12) vs South Florida 2020 - YouTube

 

Holton Ahlers is a lefty. Strong arm. Good runner. Good size. Smart with the ball. Good deep ball accuracy. Good decision maker. My issue with him is he throws a few too many ducks for my taste. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

 

His arm is... kind of meh. And he laser locks on his targets a good majority of the time. He lofts the ball and doesn't get a lot of juice under it. 

 

 

He definitely laser locks on his targets a majority of time, lots of college QBs though do.  He's not as flagrant on that front IMO as Lance.  His accuracy is also streaky.  

 

I disagree that his arm is meh.  He puts sometimes too much touch on his throws but you can see at times when he wants to put some mustard on his throws he can do it.  I think his arm though is overrated, some draft geeks think he has a strong arm, personally i don't think so.  But I think his arm strength is good albeit not great. 

 

The main things that strike me about him is he's decent making plays when he's flushed out of the pocket either via his legs or keeping his eyes down the field and making a play and can do it on the right or left.  I didn't notice him favoring the field over the boundary albeit in college it lends to that since you got more lopsided room on the field side than you do in the pros. 

 

I haven't watched all the QBs closely but of the ones i have watched, I like Ridder the 2nd best among:  Mond, Trask, Newman, Mac Jones.  I like the fact that Ridder's play is ascending.  does he look like a slam dunk stud?  Not even close.  That's why he's not in conversation in the first round.

 

The more I think about it, the more I like Mac Jones.  i wouldn't bet my mortgage on him being a franchise QB either.  I'd actually bet against him.  But again with the 2nd tier types. its about rolling the dice.    Mac isn't mobile but his movement in the pocket isn't bad.  He has a quick release.  He has a good arm not great.   But going back to starring at reads, Mac is one of the better Qbs in this draft IMO in using his eyes and body movement to manipulate safeties and I love how he sells play action.  Selling play action IMO is an underated skill.  

 

Taking my own take out of it, here's would draft network thought about Ridder's 2019 tape which is inferior to his 2020 play of late.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/desmond-ridder/egzbnFBW6X

PROS: Dual-threat quarterback with a live arm and plenty of athleticism. Does well to keep his eyes down the field when facing pressure. Fully capable of altering his arm slots and getting the ball out quick. Often used in zone-read and QB power runs where his size, vision and ability to break tackles shine. Sound thrower on the run and he finds a fair amount of success extending plays and playing backyard football. Easy movement within the pocket and there are plenty of instances where he slides or steps up to avoid a rusher and hits a throw. Flashes wonderful ball placement down the field and he has the arm strength needed to challenge deep windows. Has impressive flashes of accuracy overall, working the football into tight windows and putting it on his targets. 

 

CONS: Passing efficiency diminished after the first month or so of the season, compounded by a shoulder injury later in the year. Has to find better consistency with ball placement. Needs to be more willing to take what the defense gives him, identify that quicker and pull the trigger - can get greedy and try to do too much. Can be late to feel pressure but to his credit, those eyes are down the field. Took a ton of hits in 2019. 

[KDawg]

Doesn’t sound far from what I think...

 

I just don’t think he’s a dude we should covet. The throws he makes when he breaks the pocket are largely due to RPO stuff. I don’t think his arm is any good either. To each their own but he’s not better than Ehlinger, Ahlers or Book in my mind.