2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Panninho]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I don’t think you understand my take on Pitts as a prospect.

 

To make it short and simple:

 

You draft him for his ability in the slot, if he develops into an in-line tight end that’s a bonus. And you certainly attempt that. But his value currently stands in the slot and for long term he will not lose that value in the slot. He may or may not develop in-line.

Maybe that is true but I don't think you fully understood what I meant as well. Maybe I didn't communicate it clearly enough though, English is a foreign language for me after all.

 

@Skinsinparadise I agree, I think (and hope) we'll play ourselves out of the Pitts range anyways.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

True, but you could equally argue that you can do more with Moore.  Jet sweeps for instance.  You're not going to use Pitts in that role.  The other factor is that Moore is a threat to make a house call any time he touches the ball where the 6'6" guy likely isnt going to outrun CBs on the same level.  

 

 

There is an evaluation involved on both sides, and the argument both ways are fair.  Again, I'm not saying hard pass on Pitts by any means, the dude is a talent.  Just want to make sure the talent is used correctly and gives us the best chance to win if were gonna use a 1st round pick on him.  

 

Pitts won't get matched up on the same kind of DBs though.  He'll get the safeties and bigger corners, so I wouldn't necessarily agree he's not a comparable home run threat.  And I think you get more routine extra value from the bigger TE sized weapon because of the blocking and run game utility.  There is also the red zone value too.  It's an open question about who would provide more extra value, so I think it would come down to what you already have in your roster and what your identity for your team is.  Big physical teams that are run heavy would prefer Pitts most likely.

 

Actually, the real question is are they equally graded in actuality?  Probably one of them is going to get graded higher than the other.

[OVCChairman]

8 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Pitts won't get matched up on the same kind of DBs though.  He'll get the safeties and bigger corners, so I wouldn't necessarily agree he's not a comparable home run threat.  And I think you get more routine extra value from the bigger TE sized weapon because of the blocking and run game utility.  There is also the red zone value too.  It's an open question about who would provide more extra value, so I think it would come down to what you already have in your roster and what your identity for your team is.  Big physical teams that are run heavy would prefer Pitts most likely.

 

Actually, the real question is are they equally graded in actuality?  Probably one of them is going to get graded higher than the other.

 

 

Absolutely, the CBs will likely still be on the field though, so even if they're not the direct matchup, they still have a shot of running him down. 

 

I agree with everything though.  It's unlikely they both grade out identically so its all a hypothetical conversation.  

[Est.1974]

Our D needs a LB and FS. My view, draft one of each within our first 4 picks before day 2 closes out. Keep the group young. Pick aggressive, in your face, prospects. Add that to the group we’ve got and let them loose. 
 

I think Rivera will strongly consider a vet QB for 2021. No idea who will end up available, but a vet QB will be able to manage this team to wins on a regular basis. I don’t see a rookie getting the job in 2021. I’ve said in another thread, I seriously believe Kyle Allen could lead this team to 10 wins. Most teams will struggle to get 20 points on us if we add more quality to this D. Not all teams, but most....

[Going Commando]

We need more running back and receiver quality and depth for sure.  Barber and McKissick maximize their talent but they are very limited.  Gibson doesn't get tackled short of the sticks on that crucial third down catch.  He beats that linebacker.  So would Max Borghi.

 

I though Steven Sims had a fairly rough night too, in terms of his decision making, concentration, and his aggression.  Relying on him to be our second option isn't close to being good enough for a team that now has playoff aspirations.  An honest to god second threat would give us breathing room so we can run the ball and give our QBs an easy read and throw every once in a while.  We need better punt return men too.  Getting someone with some edge and some real creativity would give us the special trams group to be good.

[Going Commando]

21 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Ford I noticed is all over the place in mocks, I've seen him in the last first, I've seen him in the 4th.   Weird.   As for Moore, considering the glut at that position in the draft, it wouldn't shock me if he slips to the late first.   I think he's one dude who will almost for sure be there where we pick. 

 

The one thing about Ford is it feels like he quit on his team this season.  It's been a weird year no doubt, but to opt out midway through after your team loses a bunch of games just feels sketchy.  He needs a good answer for why he did that when scouts interview him about it.  It's the one kind of big thing that rubs me the wrong way about him, and it also feels like the kind of thing that could drop him a little bit in the draft.  I would also.most have rather he just opted out from the beginning like Twyman did.

[mhd24]

10 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The one thing about Ford is it feels like he quit on his team this season.  It's been a weird year no doubt, but to opt out midway through after your team loses a bunch of games just feels sketchy.  He needs a good answer for why he did that when scouts interview him about it.  It's the one kind of big thing that rubs me the wrong way about him, and it also feels like the kind of thing that could drop him a little bit in the draft.  I would also.most have rather he just opted out from the beginning like Twyman did.

 

The WR from LSU also opted out after LSU started losing.  I'm not sure how teams will feel about it.  This year is weird for everyone.  

 

If we aren't taking QB and are in the 19-23 range, Darrisow and Rondale Moore are my two top targets.  Given the general need of o-line, Darrisow might be gone.  I think Moore will be there however.  He's not going above Chase for sure.  Pitts, Smith, and Waddle likely go above him as well.

 

[KDawg]

I think one of the 800 backs needs to be a target. Honestly there’s a bunch that would fit in different ways on this team. 
 

I’d even keep Barber, McKissick and Gibson to pair with the new back.

 

I legitimately believe Carter or Williams from UNC, Ibrahim from Minn, Chuba, Etienne, Harris, Gainwell (Memphis), Hill, Stevenson, Brooks, Borghi, Sermon, Patterson, Mitchell... there are a ton of very quality backs in this draft. 
 

Could keep McKissick a more of a hybrid to help the receiving corps as well as add a running threat to empty sets and some regular carries.

 

Keep Gibson fresh. 
 

I think a back is a very necessary pick in this class. It’s loaded.

[Going Commando]

7 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

The WR from LSU also opted out after LSU started losing.  I'm not sure how teams will feel about it.  This year is weird for everyone.  

 

If we aren't taking QB and are in the 19-23 range, Darrisow and Rondale Moore are my two top targets.  Given the general need of o-line, Darrisow might be gone.  I think Moore will be there however.  He's not going above Chase for sure.  Pitts, Smith, and Waddle likely go above him as well.

 

Was it Marshall who did that?  If so, I wasn't a giant fan of his game to begin with.  That would make him like a fifth rounder for me.  Draft him only because the physical tools are remarkable, but he's a long way away from being any good.

 

Moore and Darrisaw are two of my favorites too, and I do think we will win the division and end up picking late.  I would be very happy with getting either of them, but could see both of them being gone by the middle of the first round.  But someone really good at a position of need will still be there if we pick in the early 20s.  Probably not a QB, but a WR or OL or DB for sure.

 

This class will be unusual in the bargains we can find due to all of the opt outs.  I really think some guys might end up dropping a round or more from where they probably would have gone if they had a normal year, especially since new names have emerged into the mix this season while the opt outs sat out.  For example, someone like Kenneth Gainwell would probably be like a round 2 or maybe early round 3 pick after a normal year.  Can we get him in round 4 now instead?  I think there is a good chance of that.  Although it might also be a situation where some of the opt outs come in and kill the combine and remind everyone about them, so it's tough to predict what will happen.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Was it Marshall who did that?  If so, I wasn't a giant fan of his game to begin with.  That would make him like a fifth rounder for me.  Draft him only because the physical tools are remarkable, but he's a long way away from being any good.

 

Moore and Darrisaw are two of my favorites too, and I do think we will win the division and end up picking late.  I would be very happy with getting either of them, but could see both of them being gone by the middle of the first round.  But someone really good at a position of need will still be there if we pick in the early 20s.  Probably not a QB, but a WR or OL or DB for sure.

 

This class will be unusual in the bargains we can find due to all of the opt outs.  I really think some guys might end up dropping a round or more from where they probably would have gone if they had a normal year, especially since new names have emerged into the mix this season while the opt outs sat out.  For example, someone like Kenneth Gainwell would probably be like a round 2 or maybe early round 3 pick after a normal year.  Can we get him in round 4 now instead?  I think there is a good chance of that.  Although it might also be a situation where some of the opt outs come in and kill the combine and remind everyone about them, so it's tough to predict what will happen.

Gonna be guys available in late rounds that are going to be big time players in the League next year. I think RB is the position with the most depth this year, to be honest. Moreso than even wide out.

 

I think LB is fairly deep as well, at least in comparison to last year’s group.

[Going Commando]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think a back is a very necessary pick in this class. It’s loaded.

 

Me too, and it's one of the positions where rookies can give a lot of value to their teams in year one.   Makes sense to draft them.

 

I would be targeting one of the pass catching backs like Gainwell or Borghi in particular.  McKissick has been steady, but I'd be looking for a substantial upgrade.  A guy like Gainwell would really change the ceiling for the offense on a play by play basis because of his ability to house his touches.  Make sure we don't lose that home run threat when Gibson steps off or has to miss time.  And I think he's a potential bargain since so many other backs have emerged over the course of the season, like the UNC guys and Herbert and the guy from Buffalo.  I feel like there is a chance we could move up in the fourth and snag him, unless he runs a low 4.3 at the combine.

 

I like Borghi for us specifically too, and his projections have been very late.  Sixth round and below.  My gut says that is too low, but the unique circumstances of the season create unpredictable outcomes.  If we could get him hat far into the class, that would really fix things for us while preserving out opportunities to improve elsewhere.

[Going Commando]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think LB is fairly deep as well, at least in comparison to last year’s group.

 

 

This is a very good RB class, but I do think that this is a third straight bumper crop of wide receivers.  Remarkable how much WR talent has moved through the college game over this time span.  Enough to change the style of play in the NFL.

 

Wanted to quote this part because LBer has been in the BPA consideration for us if we do end up picking in the 20s due to Owusu Koramoah and Moses and Bolton and Collins, etc.  20s is kind of a sweet spot for round one linebackers as a lot of the really good DBs and OLs will get picked before then.  And we know this regime likes to pick stud linebackers in round one.  That feels like a probable direction for us.

[Chump Bailey]

Kinda like Javonte Williams RB UNC.

[max21]

Our Corners have been fine but kind of hope they address it this offseason. I like Campbell from UGA and Adebo from Stanford. 2 guys I’ve watched highlights the last few days, Adebo opted out but he has a size, length and WR instincts. I think they could both help immediately unless we want to go for a guy like Peterson, Rhodes or Ryan in FA. Xavier Rhodes has had a great comeback year this year but Peterson is up in age haven’t watched enough of Logan Ryan 

[Est.1974]

Recent draft history has the RBs ranked say 6-12 broadly going in the 3rd /through to mid 4th round range. Seems like the ideal place to take one in a deep class at the position. 

[IrepDC]

Where we are now in the draft, I'm thinking WR will be BPA. I would love to go LB round 1, obviously, but the talent on the board when we pick may not make it sensible. I'm thinking WR or OL.

 

Probably not popular but I still want to see us prioritize OL this year and start grooming upgrades and replacements for the guys we have. The defense is showing us how dominant trench work can compensate. Use the same strategy on offense.

[Skinsinparadise]

PFF currently

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 

This is a very good RB class, but I do think that this is a third straight bumper crop of wide receivers.  Remarkable how much WR talent has moved through the college game over this time span.  Enough to change the style of play in the NFL.

 

Wanted to quote this part because LBer has been in the BPA consideration for us if we do end up picking in the 20s due to Owusu Koramoah and Moses and Bolton and Collins, etc.  20s is kind of a sweet spot for round one linebackers as a lot of the really good DBs and OLs will get picked before then.  And we know this regime likes to pick stud linebackers in round one.  That feels like a probable direction for us.

 

If I had to bet this today, tackle (outside of QB) seems to be the spot where guys tend to fly off the board sooner than some mocks typically expect.  Lets say what happens if guys like Darrisaw, Slater, Vera Tucker go before 19.  And hypothetically Cosmi, Mayfield, Radunz are the next highest tackles on their board and they expect all of them will be gone by the 19th pick in the 2nd?   Or better yet they have Darrisaw lets say as their top tackle left and he's still on the board at 19 or wherever -- then don't you have to pull the trigger?  Forget those specific players, I am talking more theoritically versus being hung up on a specific player. 

 

You can arguably get that MLB/WR/RB later in this draft.  But can you at LT?  If past is prologue you are more likely to have a surpise receiver still on the board in the mid to late 2nd than you would be a LT.

 

I'd add that tackle is one of the hardest spots to address in FA.  That's my way of saying right now it almost screams to me they are taking a LT unless they rate highly one of the non top 3 QB prospects lets say Lance or Mac Jones and they fall to their pick or are close enough to trade up to land. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Where we are now in the draft, I'm thinking WR will be BPA. I would love to go LB round 1, obviously, but the talent on the board when we pick may not make it sensible. I'm thinking WR or OL.

 

Probably not popular but I still want to see us prioritize OL this year and start grooming upgrades and replacements for the guys we have. The defense is showing us how dominant trench work can compensate. Use the same strategy on offense.

 

As for the idea of tackle, I think its plenty popular on this thread but its not a sexy spot to the average fan.   But I think tackle might be almost as screaming of a need and an obvious need/BPA match to this draft as DT was back in 2018. 

 

I think we can find a receiver later in the draft.  It's also arguably the stacked position in FA.    

[IrepDC]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If I had to bet this today, tackle (outside of QB) seems to be the spot where guys tend to fly off the board sooner than some mocks typically expect.  Lets say what happens if guys like Darrisaw, Slater, Vera Tucker go before 19.  And hypothetically Cosmi, Mayfield, Radunz are the next highest tackles on their board and they expect all of them will be gone by the 19th pick in the 2nd?   Or better yet they have Darrisaw lets say as their top tackle left and he's still on the board at 19 or wherever -- then don't you have to pull the trigger?  Forget those specific players, I am talking more theoritically versus being hung up on a specific player. 

 

You can arguably get that MLB/WR/RB later in this draft.  But can you at LT?  If past is prologue you are more likely to have a surpise receiver still on the board in the mid to late 2nd than you would be a LT.

 

I'd add that tackle is one of the hardest spots to address in FA.  That's my way of saying right now it almost screams to me they are taking a LT unless they rate highly one of the non top 3 QB prospects lets say Lance or Mac Jones and they fall to their pick or are close enough to trade up to land. 

 

 

 

As for the idea of tackle, I think its plenty popular on this thread but its not a sexy spot to the average fan.   But I think tackle might be almost as screaming of a need and an obvious need/BPA match to this draft as DT was back in 2018. 

 

I think we can find a receiver later in the draft.  It's also arguably the stacked position in FA.    

I'm not limiting my idea to a tackle though. I may be one of the few fans who'd be excited about a round 1 Guard or Center. Trench work is so underrated, but having a clean pocket a QB can step UP into, instead of rolling out, is major. 

[Tedskins 21]

Zach Wilson is going to end up a top 10 pick.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, IrepDC said:

I'm not limiting my idea to a tackle though. I may be one of the few fans who'd be excited about a round 1 Guard or Center. Trench work is so underrated, but having a clean pocket a QB can step UP into, instead of rolling out, is major. 

 

I am not in love with drafting any of the guards that high unless they make Slater or Tucker a guard.   Chase is rated as one of the top centers in the league, ditto Scherff at OG.  So part of my take is driven by whether we resign either one.   Schweitzer has also played surprisingly well.   On the other hand i don't know if we have the left tackle on this roster.  Lucas, maybe?

[Burgundy Yoda]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

PFF currently

 

 

I feel like these scores are pretty spot on. I love how Curl just keeps going up and up, Allen is definitely our most underappreciated defender too. He's having a really good year. 

[Going Commando]

43 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Where we are now in the draft, I'm thinking WR will be BPA. I would love to go LB round 1, obviously, but the talent on the board when we pick may not make it sensible. I'm thinking WR or OL.

 

TDN has Owusu-Koromoah ranked 18th overall right now.  There is a good chance of him being the BPA when we pick if we win the division.  Then they have Zaven Collins and Dylan Moses closely ranked at 33 and 36 respectively, so we could get into that range with a small trade down, which might make a lot of sense for us to do.  I think LB is in the discussion for BPA for us given the trajectory we are on.  But if we crater and lose out, then I'm not sure.

 

 

[IrepDC]

Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

TDN has Owusu-Koromoah ranked 18th overall right now.  There is a good chance of him being the BPA when we pick if we win the division.  Then they have Zaven Collins and Dylan Moses closely ranked at 33 and 36 respectively, so we could get into that range with a small trade down, which might make a lot of sense for us to do.  I think LB is in the discussion for BPA for us given the trajectory we are on.  But if we crater and lose out, then I'm not sure.

 

 

I have been getting a sneaky suspicion we not only get into the playoffs but give someone a hard time, possible L, in the first round. I can see the team morale trending up and that may push us back into the 20s on draft day. 

 

I'd be HYPE if we get one of the LBs though. As long as it's not a reach. A lot of boards will move around when/if the pre draft events start. 

[Going Commando]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am not in love with drafting any of the guards that high unless they make Slater or Tucker a guard.   Chase is rated as one of the top centers in the league, ditto Scherff at OG.  So part of my take is driven by whether we resign either one.   Schweitzer has also played surprisingly well.   On the other hand i don't know if we have the left tackle on this roster.  Lucas, maybe?

 

I think you are right that tackles tend to rise throughout the draft process and often they go earlier than projected.  It's also super early in the process, but looking at TDN's draft board, they have a huge cluster of offensive linemen ranked in the 20s and 30s:

 

22 - Mayfield

23 - Wyatt Davis

24 - Cosmi

27 - Vera-Tucker

29 - Humphrey

31 - Slater

32 - Eichenberg

35 - Radunz

38 - Josh Myers

39 - Trey Smith

 

This could be a situation where OL is the BPA, even if it's an interior player.  Davis and Vera-Tucker in particular are in that draft range where we might pick, and we could trade down to add picks and position ourselves in the middle of that OL glut in the 30s.