2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

We didn't really leak anything about Fitzpatrick and Jackson.  Those signings came out of left field.  Samuel was more of an inference since he was a Panther and his ties to Ron, Hurney, and Scott Turner.

 

Like last year, we all knew we were taking Chase at 2, but Gibson was a shock pick to us at least as RB wasn't on the radar.

 

Plus, Doug was almost happy to divulge our intentions on the draft.  Ron and company are far more secretive.  Ron is honest after the fact (like the Stafford pursuit).

 

Those spots though weren't out of left field even a tiny bit.   A veteran QB in FA was mentioned a bunch before FA.  I noticed Keim in one of his last columns before FA even threw Fitzpatrick in the mix as one of the possibilities.  They wanted to resign Darby (which Rivera doubled down on recently) but when Denver signed him he needed to be replaced.  The need for a corner was mentioned.  Heck even the need to replace Moreau was mentioned.  Both happened. 

 

I am not saying Keim or whomever is going to guess every specific player, I am talking about general position targets. Although I'd give him kudos that its eerie how many specifics he nails on that front.  Heck before the last draft he mentioned they are looking to add a RB who can also be a passing weapon in the draft -- a dude like Antonio Gibson.  And that's who they drafted. 

 

For example he's not saying right now which LT they want but simply saying he knows they are hot on adding one early.   I am not saying Keim or Standig or whomever will guess if they prefer Etienne or N. Harris or J. Williams. I am saying if this FO is hot for a RB early its not on the reporters current radar screen.  Keim has alluded to later in the draft for depth at RB.  Keim could end up wrong and Rivera could prove to be cagy for change.  It's possible.  I am simply saying i am not betting on it.

 

Having said that most teams finish their draft boards 2 weeks or so before the draft.  So I take rumors much more seriously closer to the end then now.  But for me if I don't get even a little inkling of don't be shocked if they take a RB, I'd bet at this given time that they aren't taking Etienne or Harris in the first. 

[Warhead36]

I don't think there is any chance we go RB in round 1. The staff love Gibson and McKissic. We probably take a short yardage/goal line guy to replace Peyton Barber in the mid to late rounds if anything.

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think there is any chance we go RB in round 1. The staff love Gibson and McKissic. We probably take a short yardage/goal line guy to replace Peyton Barber in the mid to late rounds if anything.

 

Yeah I really don't think Ron is playing poker when it comes to RB. He has been pretty effusive in his praise of the guys we have. Also adding Curtis Samuel adds even more potential for mismatches as he can be used in multiple ways including on sweeps, etc. I don't think there's much chance we go RB in the 1st.

[Die Hard]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think there is any chance we go RB in round 1. The staff love Gibson and McKissic. We probably take a short yardage/goal line guy to replace Peyton Barber in the mid to late rounds if anything.

You take Najee Harris..... you've now made both McKissic and Barber completely expendible. And SO cheap!

 

You have 2 backs that would complement each other perfect..... and can fit any need and opens the offense completely against any defensive strengths. No dropoff. And they won't need to be over-worked.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

You take Najee Harris..... you've now made both McKissic and Barber completely expendible. And SO cheap!

 

You have 2 backs that would complement each other perfect..... and can fit any need and opens the offense completely against any defensive strengths. No dropoff. And they won't need to be over-worked.

I don't mind Harris and would be okay taking him at 19. I just don't think the staff feel this way. They seem intent on solving LT long term in the draft which makes sense considering how expensive it can be to get one in FA. RBs tend to be a lot more replaceable.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I really don't think Ron is playing poker when it comes to RB. He has been pretty effusive in his praise of the guys we have. Also adding Curtis Samuel adds even more potential for mismatches as he can be used in multiple ways including on sweeps, etc. I don't think there's much chance we go RB in the 1st.

 

I'd add when Rivera was asked to pick a player that he thinks will take it to a new level next season he said Gibson.  Good point about Samuel.  Samuel actually adds depth to the RB room.

 

Personally I love N. Harris and Etienne almost as much as Harris but unless I hear even just a small crack in the window either from Rivera or a reporter who covers this team that RB is on the table early, I am not going to buy that its going down. 

[Die Hard]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't mind Harris and would be okay taking him at 19. I just don't think the staff feel this way. They seem intent on solving LT long term in the draft which makes sense considering how expensive it can be to get one in FA. RBs tend to be a lot more replaceable.

 

Oh, I agree. It would be totally unexpected. And I wouldn't be upset if they passed. But I think as far as upgrading the offense... I believe that selection would give it the biggest bang for our buck.

 

But Darrisaw is a smart choice too. But if he's not there..... I'm not sure I feel like the other options (Jenkins/AVT) would be as smart as Harris.

 

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

You take Najee Harris..... you've now made both McKissic and Barber completely expendible. And SO cheap!

 

You have 2 backs that would complement each other perfect..... and can fit any need and opens the offense completely against any defensive strengths. No dropoff. And they won't need to be over-worked.

 

Thing is, RB is generally such a low positional value nowadays that if you have prospects who you grade out equally at other positions, you're probably going to go with the other guys...especially if they also fit a need.

 

Guys like Harris and possibly Etienne would have been top 5 picks 20 years ago but now they'll probably barely be 1st rounders. The only real exceptions to that are guys like Barkley who are so ludicrously good and versatile that they can be true game changers in multiple ways. 

 

Teams can get plenty of production out of later round RBs in today's NFL and that's been demonstrated many times over. 

 

I like Harris a lot but I really don't think we'll see him in a WFT jersey.

[Skinsinparadise]

If there is sort of a darkhorse spot early in the draft (judging completely by beat guys) it would be WR.  It's not that its being touted as likely but its being mentioned as don't rule it out. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2021/insider/story/_/id/31209715/best-team-fits-wide-receivers-2021-nfl-draft-landing-spots-jamarr-chase-devonta-smith-jaylen-waddle-kyle-pitts

Rashod Bateman, Washington Football Team

Height: 6-2 | Weight: 213 | School: Minnesota

Where Washington could get him: Round 1 (No. 19)

 

Why he fits: I'm a big fan of Bateman's tape. I see a wideout who can be used like New Orleans' Michael Thomas or Chicago's Allen Robinson given his frame and nuance as a route runner. That caliber of player would be a steal for Washington at No. 19 overall -- if he reaches his ceiling.

In Scott Turner's offense -- a system built on timing in the passing game -- Bateman can be deployed as the backside X receiver or in the slot, with the ability to run the skinny posts, option/slant routes and slot fades. Drafting Bateman here would be another boost to a Washington offense that lacked juice last season but now features Terry McLaurin and free-agent signing Curtis Samuel -- with the aggressive throwing style of veteran quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick.

[Die Hard]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If there is sort of a darkhorse spot early in the draft (judging completely by beat guys) it would be WR.  It's not that its being touted as likely but its being mentioned as don't rule it out. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2021/insider/story/_/id/31209715/best-team-fits-wide-receivers-2021-nfl-draft-landing-spots-jamarr-chase-devonta-smith-jaylen-waddle-kyle-pitts

Rashod Bateman, Washington Football Team

Height: 6-2 | Weight: 213 | School: Minnesota

Where Washington could get him: Round 1 (No. 19)

 

Why he fits: I'm a big fan of Bateman's tape. I see a wideout who can be used like New Orleans' Michael Thomas or Chicago's Allen Robinson given his frame and nuance as a route runner. That caliber of player would be a steal for Washington at No. 19 overall -- if he reaches his ceiling.

In Scott Turner's offense -- a system built on timing in the passing game -- Bateman can be deployed as the backside X receiver or in the slot, with the ability to run the skinny posts, option/slant routes and slot fades. Drafting Bateman here would be another boost to a Washington offense that lacked juice last season but now features Terry McLaurin and free-agent signing Curtis Samuel -- with the aggressive throwing style of veteran quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

I was intrigued by all the early reports of Bateman.... especially because having a legit outside #2 IS a need for this team (and would be an incredible luxury). So I looked up some of his highlights. He seems like a good prospect..... I didn't see a game-breaker. And at #19.... I think there will be some better options for a game-breaker.... even at different positions.

[IrepDC]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Zaven.  Been talking about him since early during the college season last year.  My issue with him is for a big dude he's not hot as a run stopper especially going laterally versus forward, missed a lot of tackles compared to his peers, too.   You'd have this image of a 260 pound dude to be a Urlacher level phyisical player who flattens runners but he's inconsistent at best at that.  The fact that he was meh both on speed measures and strength got my attention.  Lanky Jamin Davis out-benched him, too.

 

Davis' recognition skills aren't as fast as Collins.  But his recovery speed is notceably on another level than Collins, ditto his sideline to sideline range, and ditto his tackling ability in open field.

 

I like both players, both are raw to some extent.  

 

I see some of the lack of physicality with Collins, but it comes off to me more as a player still learning / mastering a new position than a guy who is not willing to make contact. This is where perspectives may differ. For me though, I'm not worried about missed tackles or run support with Collins. He has enough run support plays on film to show he is capable. Then you just have to do a bit of projecting how our coaches would develop him. He already moves around the field much better and more fluid than a guy his size should, he already shows playmaker instincts and on field awareness. He simply needs his technique developed a bit more and he will be a star. I feel similar about Jamin getting coached up. I project both of them will need coaching to fine tune their technique. All in all I wouldn't be disappointed with either, but I'm not letting the numbers disprove what Collins has on film.

[Die Hard]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Thing is, RB is generally such a low positional value nowadays that if you have prospects who you grade out equally at other positions, you're probably going to go with the other guys...especially if they also fit a need.

 

Guys like Harris and possibly Etienne would have been top 5 picks 20 years ago but now they'll probably barely be 1st rounders. The only real exceptions to that are guys like Barkley who are so ludicrously good and versatile that they can be true game changers in multiple ways. 

 

Teams can get plenty of production out of later round RBs in today's NFL and that's been demonstrated many times over. 

 

I like Harris a lot but I really don't think we'll see him in a WFT jersey.

 

Yes, it is a low positional value. But not so much that getting a premiere RB in the later first round an incredible luxury. Harris can catch, he can bulldoze, he can be a play-maker.

 

And these days... it's such a low position value because RBs get injured being the bell-cows. Backs don't carry for 25+ plus any more.

 

So having 2 legitimate options splitting the carries.... based on situation...... might be too good to pass up.

[DWinzit]

39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Me either.  If drafting a RB early is on their radar screen they are doing an amazing smoke screen job on it.  The year they took Guice, they telegraphed a lot via rumors/press comferences/interviews that a RB was hot on their list.

 

Will see if it hold but the rumors are now are hot on LT, LB, TE early.  Darkhorse FS.  And depth at WR, CB, RB.   

 

He could be but he seems to be so brutally honest that I doubt it.  And the leaks for FA that Keim had for example happened just about to a tee.

 

RR called out thre MLB play multiple times.  He even flat out said in an interview when asked what's missing with this defense to match the best defenses he had in Carolina -- his response the MLBs.

 

Though he did say Bostic improved towards the end of the season.  In his last press conference, he mentioned he'd like to add LBs. 

You have been on top of all things media and staff related and agree no early RB unless BPA is really in their face. I do not see RB until the 4th round at the earliest.

LT, LB and TE early for sure with WR, RB and possibly QB for depth. There will more than likely be a DB in the middle of the draft whether CB or FS. 

 

Of all the moves, I can't wait to see what they decide on at LB.

I saw your edit early where you added the 10 times being important with LBs. I agree that for players in general, it is more important than a 40. It bleeds through with reaction times first quick moves. Of course this is also huge with one of your favorite studies, WR's and their ability to separate. 

[KDawg]

59 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't mind Harris and would be okay taking him at 19. I just don't think the staff feel this way. They seem intent on solving LT long term in the draft which makes sense considering how expensive it can be to get one in FA. RBs tend to be a lot more replaceable.

Gibson is your short yardage/goal line guy as well as a Swiss Army knife if we have Harris (who can also do the short yardage and goal line stuff)

[Panninho]

36 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

 

Yes, it is a low positional value. But not so much that getting a premiere RB in the later first round an incredible luxury. Harris can catch, he can bulldoze, he can be a play-maker.

 

And these days... it's such a low position value because RBs get injured being the bell-cows. Backs don't carry for 25+ plus any more.

 

So having 2 legitimate options splitting the carries.... based on situation...... might be too good to pass up.

But the lower positional value is not only due to the shorter longevity of their careers. It surely is the biggest factor because a LT might be a cornerstone of your franchise for 15 years, that is unlikely to be the case for a RB. But it's also because you pay relatively much for a first round RB compared to the league average. Having a first round LT on a rookie deal saves you a lot of relative cap space compared to a first round RB. Additionally, we can pretty confidently say that superior run blocking has a bigger impact on the overall rushing success than the running back's rushing ability.

 

I think taking a RB at 19 is not necessarily overdrafting. However, I think it is still a luxury pick. If you are a team that has a competitive window contend now it makes a lot of sense to add a RB like Harris or Etienne. But if you have some holes in your roster, I think you need to take a hard look at how much value a first round RB offers long-term compared to other positions.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If there is sort of a darkhorse spot early in the draft (judging completely by beat guys) it would be WR.  It's not that its being touted as likely but its being mentioned as don't rule it out. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2021/insider/story/_/id/31209715/best-team-fits-wide-receivers-2021-nfl-draft-landing-spots-jamarr-chase-devonta-smith-jaylen-waddle-kyle-pitts

Rashod Bateman, Washington Football Team

Height: 6-2 | Weight: 213 | School: Minnesota

Where Washington could get him: Round 1 (No. 19)

 

Why he fits: I'm a big fan of Bateman's tape. I see a wideout who can be used like New Orleans' Michael Thomas or Chicago's Allen Robinson given his frame and nuance as a route runner. That caliber of player would be a steal for Washington at No. 19 overall -- if he reaches his ceiling.

In Scott Turner's offense -- a system built on timing in the passing game -- Bateman can be deployed as the backside X receiver or in the slot, with the ability to run the skinny posts, option/slant routes and slot fades. Drafting Bateman here would be another boost to a Washington offense that lacked juice last season but now features Terry McLaurin and free-agent signing Curtis Samuel -- with the aggressive throwing style of veteran quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

People need to stop lying about Bateman's size and frame.

 

NFL WR average is 6' and 3/4, and 205 lbs.

 

Bateman is just over 6' and he's 190.  He's said he's never played even close to 200.

 

He doesn't measure at 6'2 and 213.  He doesn't play like that size.  And he himself said he's never been near that size.

 

He's a slightly undersized WR, yet people are trying to claim he's got plus size.

[Die Hard]

13 minutes ago, Panninho said:

If you are a team that has a competitive window contend now it makes a lot of sense to add a RB like Harris or Etienne. But if you have some holes in your roster, I think you need to take a hard look at how much value a first round RB offers long-term compared to other positions.

 

I'm pretty sure that RR believes this team is currently in a 'competitive window'. It's probably a reason why he franchised Scherff and signed Fitzpatrick. It's not a perfect roster construction fit yet.... but this year can't be a throw-away. It has to count.

[Commander Wolffe]

Ron and Co. did select Christian McCaffrey at #8 in the first round. If we stay true to our mantra of competition and depth at every position then Harris or Etienne should be in play at #19. 

 

I know we enjoyed success with two Rbs last year, but pairing Gibson with one of those studs would be another level and also save the wear and tear on Gibson. Insurance if he misses a couple weeks.

 

Now my unpopular take. I like Etienne over Harris. When I look at Etienne I see Alvin Kamara. I see Harris as quasi-Derrick Henry. I prefer the speed and explosiveness over power. 

 

Why did Harris skip the athletic testing? My guess is an average 40 time.

[Stormy]

1 hour ago, Die Hard said:

You take Najee Harris..... you've now made both McKissic and Barber completely expendible. And SO cheap!

 

You have 2 backs that would complement each other perfect..... and can fit any need and opens the offense completely against any defensive strengths. No dropoff. And they won't need to be over-worked.

It was definitely apparent how 1 dimensional this offense became last year when Gibson was out with his injury. Harris and Gibson would be our Hunt and Chubb and would instantly give us one of the most explosive and versatile backfields in the entire NFL. That said, with there being no smoke in the area, and the stated needs and focus we’ve had at other positions (LT, LB, FS), I seriously doubt Harris Is in the mix at 19.  I wish he was. 

[DWinzit]

8 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

People need to stop lying about Bateman's size and frame.

 

NFL WR average is 6' and 3/4, and 205 lbs.

 

Bateman is just over 6' and he's 190.  He's said he's never played even close to 200.

 

He doesn't measure at 6'2 and 213.  He doesn't play like that size.  And he himself said he's never been near that size.

 

He's a slightly undersized WR, yet people are trying to claim he's got plus size.

One note on Bateman, regardless of his size or speed - he is fluid and a good route runner which leads his ability to separate and find the hole or crease. His true measurables could take him from a mid to late 1st to an early 2nd round player.

[Panninho]

5 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

 

I'm pretty sure that RR believes this team is currently in its 'competitive window'. It's probably why he franchised Scherff and signed Fitzpatrick. It's not a perfect roster construction fit yet.... but this year can't be a throw-away. It has to count.

While I think that is true, I also feel that the roster still has some holes that should be addressed before upgrading the RB room. Especially along the O-line we have some question marks with both tackles entering the last year of their contracts and a RG on his second franchise tag. We are not the Chiefs who decided to load up with another offensive weapon to an already stacked offense when they drafted CEH. Our offense has been bottom of the league for quite some time now and I strongly feel that for us adding a RB - no matter how decent the prospect - will have a lower impact on our overall success than beefing up the O-line.

I wouldn't be mad if they decided to draft Harris because I agree that he is a great RB talent. But I wouldn't be super excited either. We already spent a 3rd (which was almost a 2nd) on a RB last year. I just wouldn't like the allocation of draft capital on a position that is probably the least important for sustainable offensive success.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

article today about Jamin in the Athletic

 

 

[Tress Is The Way]

25 minutes ago, SkinsFootball said:

Ron and Co. did select Christian McCaffrey at #8 in the first round. If we stay true to our mantra of competition and depth at every position then Harris or Etienne should be in play at #19. 

 

I know we enjoyed success with two Rbs last year, but pairing Gibson with one of those studs would be another level and also save the wear and tear on Gibson. Insurance if he misses a couple weeks.

 

Now my unpopular take. I like Etienne over Harris. When I look at Etienne I see Alvin Kamara. I see Harris as quasi-Derrick Henry. I prefer the speed and explosiveness over power. 

 

Why did Harris skip the athletic testing? My guess is an average 40 time.

Harris isn't on the same level as say McCaffrey or Barkley so drafting him at 19 would be a reach in my opinion. We have more pressing needs at LB, OT, and QB. I suspect gibson will have a break out year, mckissic can serve the back up role decently well as seen from his time when gibson was hurt last season. Peyton barber was utilized because he literally never fumbles, out of 645 attempts in his career he's only fumbled 4 times and only lost 2. Throw in samuel on some gadgets and I think the RB position is not a position of necessity this offseason.

[Idaho fan]

Harris could be a game changer.  I like game changers at #19.  I know I'm dreaming but would love Pitts - a potentially great TE would be an awesome addition.  My guess is we end up with someone like S Trevon Moehrig.

[Panninho]

8 minutes ago, ZarG3 said:

Harris isn't on the same level as say McCaffrey or Barkley so drafting him at 19 would be a reach in my opinion. We have more pressing needs at LB, OT, and QB. I suspect gibson will have a break out year, mckissic can serve the back up role decently well as seen from his time when gibson was hurt last season. Throw in samuel on some gadgets and I think the RB position is not a position of necessity this offseason.

I don't think that Harris would be that big of a reach at 19 and I would definitely add a RB in the later rounds if a nice one sits there (or if Harris somehow makes it to our second round pick). But I agree with not prioritizing the position over OT, LB, S and potentially WR. I'd also draft a CB before going RB if it makes sense.