Thoughts on 2012 and the Myth of RG3

[Burgold]

1 hour ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Hmm...2015 under Gruden we were fighting for a playoff spot and Gruden never threw in the towel, did he? 2016 as well. Come to think of it, same for 2018... 

Gruden threw in the towel several times. Often before kickoff. Maybe you didn't see it. Maybe you didn't listen to him, but he gave up.

 

How many games did he never bother to call a time out with the clock winding down and the team down one score? How many times did he refuse to call hurry up? He just rolled over and bared his neck, signaling surrender.

[Supernatural24]

So what

 

it was a fun season

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

On 4/15/2020 at 6:13 PM, Warhead36 said:

The 2005 team was the best Redskins team in the Snyder era. We had a 1500 yard RB, a 1500 yard WR, and a 700 yard up and coming TE with a top 10 if not top 5 OL featuring a Pro Bowl LT. The D was top 5-10 in the league with Pro Bowl caliber players at every layer.

 

If Brunell's arm doesn't fall off in the second half of the season we probably go to the Super Bowl that year.

This is correct. That was the closest we’ve been.

[max21]

2012 was so great. I was watching highlights this morning, we had the biggest upcoming star and we were all so excited. RG3 was all over the place in commercials, on Gatorade bottles etc. Its sad how it unfolded 

[London Kev]

  I was so excited when we drafted him and was sure that we were set at QB for years. I'm quite a logical person and don't believe in fate or anything like that, but the scoring by quarter in his first game was spooky.

 

 

[bakedtater1]

On 4/17/2020 at 11:24 PM, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

This is correct. That was the closest we’ve been.

I keep wanting to say no way..it.was def the 2012 season but than I keep forgetting about that top 5-10 defense and think ya...05 was our closest.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

On 4/17/2020 at 9:04 PM, Supernatural24 said:

So what

 

it was a fun season

I was just thinking this, We could sit here & dissect RGIII's game and why we should or shouldn't have drafted him but at the end of the day what a hell of a season (in the snyder era of course) As short lived as it was it was something the fan base needed desperately . That week 1 game vs the Saints just set the tone for the whole season, you knew right out of the gates it was going to be a wild ride.  

 

  When we initially parted ways with RG3 i was angry at him and seeing Cousins perform well only added fuel to all the negative feelings towards Griffin. But now 8 years later i look back on that single season with alot of praise RG3 and thankful he gave us one fun filled year of success and hope.Its funny the way time can change your feelings towards people and events . 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

On 4/15/2020 at 7:13 PM, Warhead36 said:

The 2005 team was the best Redskins team in the Snyder era. We had a 1500 yard RB, a 1500 yard WR, and a 700 yard up and coming TE with a top 10 if not top 5 OL featuring a Pro Bowl LT. The D was top 5-10 in the league with Pro Bowl caliber players at every layer.

 

If Brunell's arm doesn't fall off in the second half of the season we probably go to the Super Bowl that year.

Brunnell was definitely the weak link on the 2005 team and he really wasn't all that bad , he just simply wasn't all that great. I think Gibbs honestly believed he was going to be his next "Doug Williams". It was weird cause to me Brunnell was always known as this gunslinger in Jacksonville and then he came here and was super conservative.  Was it Brunnells age showing or was it the Gibbs philosophy of "DONT TURN THE BALL OVER"

[ntotoro]

1 hour ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Brunnell was definitely the weak link on the 2005 team and he really wasn't all that bad , he just simply wasn't all that great. I think Gibbs honestly believed he was going to be his next "Doug Williams". It was weird cause to me Brunnell was always known as this gunslinger in Jacksonville and then he came here and was super conservative.  Was it Brunnells age showing or was it the Gibbs philosophy of "DONT TURN THE BALL OVER"

He threw it around a lot in his career, but was a little on the downslide and I think his leg injury (that nasty thigh or hamstring injury, or whatever it was that left his leg looking like an eggplant) badly hurt his ability to plant and get anything on the ball. Gibbs was loyal to a fault with him, even when injured.

[mojo]

I think Gruden summed up RG3 perfectly when he said ‘RG3 thought he could turn every play into a TD’ and that was his biggest downfall.  RG3 took massive hits all year long because he would not just go down.  Remember, when he got hurt in the Baltimore game, he ran to the sidelines and could easily walked out of bounds but turned up field for 5 more yards and got his knee blown up.  He had a lot of talent. I believe if he had the smarts and humility of Russell Wilson, he would have had a much better career.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

43 minutes ago, mojo said:

I think Gruden summed up RG3 perfectly when he said ‘RG3 thought he could turn every play into a TD’ and that was his biggest downfall.  RG3 took massive hits all year long because he would not just go down.  Remember, when he got hurt in the Baltimore game, he ran to the sidelines and could easily walked out of bounds but turned up field for 5 more yards and got his knee blown up.  He had a lot of talent. I believe if he had the smarts and humility of Russell Wilson, he would have had a much better career.

Meh, Russell Wilson is built different and is one hell of a accurate passer, really not a fair comparison imo. But i do agree with the assessment RG3 perhaps was his own worst enemy

[crabbypatty]

19 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Meh, Russell Wilson is built different and is one hell of a accurate passer, really not a fair comparison imo. But i do agree with the assessment RG3 perhaps was his own worst enemy

Not only that, but Wilson was light years ahead of Griffin in field intelligence, even in their rookie season. Griffin did not have the on field brain power to see the bigger picture and save himself for another play, he was an impulsive live in the moment kind of qb. Wilson saw the bigger picture and had no problem sliding or throwing the ball away, because he knew he could get you on the next play or the one after that. Wilson was also far more creative than Griffin was, again due to on field intelligence, (IMO)

[Smurf3]

RGIII was not a quarterback. He was an athlete playing the QB position. And to think they could have had Andrew Luck. Real quarterbacks have an almost 6th sense and an uncanny ability to see an entire football field, eyes in the back of their head and a natural clock that says "time to throw the daggone football if you want to survive for the next play." Still can't believe Shanahan left RGIII in hobbling around in the Seattle playoff game. I think he was telling Snyder, " OK you wanted him, you got him." That game basically ended any chance he had of a long NFL career as a starter and the Baltimore injury was the straw.

[Forehead]

Pretty much agree with the entire OP.  Don't get me wrong, I loved the 2012 season and the Week 17 game against Dallas where we clinched the playoff spot remains one of my favorite in-person sports memories.  I was in the end zone when Alfred Morris ripped off his long 20-30 yarder and having a Madden type view from the defenses perspective, you could see the play open up in front of you.  Fantastic.

 

However the OP is right.  Coaches and defenses (cliche alert) adjust, and offenses need to adjust in return.  RG3 didn't have any other tools in his arsenal.  A hell of an arm and great speed, but once the speed was gone, it was obvious he had none of the awareness (and frankly, a horrible passing touch on medium-long throws) needed to adjust on his end of things.  It might have taken an extra season or two to come up with schemes to negate his speed but it would have happened.  I didn't see it at the time and enjoyed the ride, but in hindsight, the signs were there.

 

This is an unpopular opinion, but Alfred Morris WAS pretty overrated.  I loved the guy and he probably would have been great in an earlier era where running backs acted more like bowling balls and speed wasn't as prized, but in the end, he was a try-really-hard 6th rounder who punched above his weight for a few seasons.  I still love the guy, especially for the game I mentioned above, but his career stats look like the last couple of months of the stock market.

[bakedtater1]

What should have happened was for rg3 to be benched in 2013 to properly heal..played Kirk, than in 2014 go back to rg3 and the same style of play Shanahan was running in 2012.

On 4/20/2020 at 1:31 PM, Smurf3 said:

RGIII was not a quarterback. He was an athlete playing the QB position. And to think they could have had Andrew Luck. Real quarterbacks have an almost 6th sense and an uncanny ability to see an entire football field, eyes in the back of their head and a natural clock that says "time to throw the daggone football if you want to survive for the next play." Still can't believe Shanahan left RGIII in hobbling around in the Seattle playoff game. I think he was telling Snyder, " OK you wanted him, you got him." That game basically ended any chance he had of a long NFL career as a starter and the Baltimore injury was the straw.

Rumor has it that ngata(how ever it's spelled)still wears rg3's leg as a belt.

[skinsmarydu]

On 4/15/2020 at 8:05 PM, bakedtater1 said:

Good call here man,..that's where we got ****ed over in Seattle..2012 and 05 definitely the best seasons scince 91/92

Close..but especially leaving November(2012)the skins were unstoppable..till the ****ty ass turf screwed us.

They were talking about it on sports talk radio here in ATL about a week ago, I almost drove right off the road. 🤬 I'll never let that go. Snyder deserves a serious *****-slap & I'd be proud to deliver it.

Robert was magic, Alfred was magic...it was a great season...even the losses were okay because we had fire and an honest effort to win. 

[bakedtater1]

No ****..looking back and if I were the owner of the Redskins I would have come to an agreement with Shanahan..gave him an extension and said k this is what we're gonna do...2013 rg3 rides the pine to completely heal, kirk is the starter adjust the play book to his style..and if Kirk leads the skins to 11+ wins and a playoff win than he's the qb going forward...get what ya can for a now very healthy and hopefully more knowledgable rg3...had kirk not played well in '13 than go back to the same playbook with rg3 and see if we cant repeat '12.

[Hazel-Ra]

On 4/15/2020 at 4:18 PM, bakedtater1 said:

Closest we've come to a super bowl appearance scince, well..the superbowl in 92

Meh, we actually won our wild card round in 05 and were one ****ty snap away from a NFC Championship game vs the Rams in 99. I think there may have been a questionable TB touchdown in that game as well.

 

I do concur that I woke up every Sunday in the 2012 season saying "We can beat those mopes!" and actually believing it. I remember the game against Minnesota when I went from saying " Don't get sacked!!" only to screech out like a teenage girl "RUN RGIII, RUN!!!!!"

Everyone in the sports bar turned around from their game to watch Griffin score (in my opinion) his signature career touchdown.

[Hazel-Ra]

On 4/15/2020 at 1:43 PM, Dissident2 said:

8. Mike Shanahan's decision to let Griffin play the second half of that playoff game still has to be one of the worst coaching decisions I've ever seen. I remember saying it at the time, too. Dude could barely WALK, and they still trotted him out there. The offense could do NOTHING. Watching Wilson do a far better version of what RG3 had been doing earlier in the season was tough to watch. After going down 14-0, Seattle really destroyed us the rest of that game. It shouldn't have even been that close, as they fumbled once on the one yard line. 

 

How many potential TDs did Logan Paulsen drop? Guy was frustrating to watch.

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 4/15/2020 at 3:43 PM, Dissident2 said:

5. TANGENT ALERT: Brandon Banks was terrible. That is all. I know he had a couple big returns during his career, but it seemed like 90 percent of his returns ended up with him getting stuffed inside the 20, and he always took the kick out of the endzone, no matter how deep. Foolishly, I might add. In fact, we must've had the worst returners in the league during that stretch of time: Niles Paul (NILES PAUL???!), Andre Roberts, even Chris Thompson was returning some kicks for us at one point in 2013. But I digress ...

 

 

 

This is a really good summary, thanks for providing it. The comments on our return guys was excellent, I too remember Nyles Paul. Seriously what was that?

 

I know mine is a very minority opinion but I'm not that upset with Shanny's decision to play Griffin in that second half.  We see players play hurt all the time.  River played with a torn knee ligament, nobody said anything about that coach's decision.  I watched Byron Leftwich's teammates literally carry him to the line of scrimmage after a completion in college. Nobody criticized the coach and again this was a college kid.  In this case it was a 7 point playoff game, a game he was able to play in before a bad snap led to his injury. Everyone wants to blame the coach, which I totally understand, but for some reason nobody wants to put any blame on a bad snap.

 

[Conn]

4 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

This is a really good summary, thanks for providing it. The comments on our return guys was excellent, I too remember Nyles Paul. Seriously what was that?

 

I know mine is a very minority opinion but I'm not that upset with Shanny's decision to play Griffin in that second half.  We see players play hurt all the time.  River played with a torn knee ligament, nobody said anything about that coach's decision.  I watched Byron Leftwich's teammates literally carry him to the line of scrimmage after a completion in college. Nobody criticized the coach and again this was a college kid.  In this case it was a 7 point playoff game, a game he was able to play in before a bad snap led to his injury. Everyone wants to blame the coach, which I totally understand, but for some reason nobody wants to put any blame on a bad snap.

 

 

Because a bad snap is an accident. A coaching decision...is a decision.

 

It's different leaving in a player that 100% relies on their athleticism to succeed.

[Darrell Green Fan]

51 minutes ago, hawgboy said:

Meh, we actually won our wild card round in 05 and were one ****ty snap away from a NFC Championship game vs the Rams in 99. I think there may have been a questionable TB touchdown in that game as well.

 

I do concur that I woke up every Sunday in the 2012 season saying "We can beat those mopes!" and actually believing it. I remember the game against Minnesota when I went from saying " Don't get sacked!!" only to screech out like a teenage girl "RUN RGIII, RUN!!!!!"

Everyone in the sports bar turned around from their game to watch Griffin score (in my opinion) his signature career touchdown.

 

On that Vikes play I just wanted him to get the first down, when he cut left for a split second I was asking "what are you doing?  Get the first!!!". Then he turned the corner and scored and I screamed "PLAY OF THE YEAR!!!".  Little did I realize that was the play of his career and there would be very little after that.  

3 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Because a bad snap is an accident. A coaching decision...is a decision.

 

It's different leaving in a player that 100% relies on their athleticism to succeed.

 

Oh I totally understand the difference, and don't expect many to agree with me to be honest. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of blaming Shanny but not those other 2 coaches, and many more who have played players who were hurt. As for the snapper that guy got plenty of heat after the Tampa Bay playoff game, for some reason this one got a total pass.  

[Dissident2]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Oh I totally understand the difference, and don't expect many to agree with me to be honest. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of blaming Shanny but not those other 2 coaches, and many more who have played players who were hurt. As for the snapper that guy got plenty of heat after the Tampa Bay playoff game, for some reason this one got a total pass.  

 

I think for me the problem I had with Shanny was not solely the fact that he let him play hurt, but that it was clear at an early point that the injury had rendered him completely ineffective. I know a lot of guys tough it out and play hurt and end up winning games, but it was pretty clear early on in that game after the first injury that RG3 had nothing left and was actively hurting the team by being in there. He couldn't scramble, couldn't pass, couldn't do any of the things that had made him so dynamic. Plus, Seattle was having their way with our defense for the most part, and it was clear that we were going to have to score more than 14 points. I just could see no way that RG3 at that point was going to be able to lead us to any of those points. If he was still moving the ball hurt, then I could see keeping him in there in a playoff game. But when he's doing nothing because of that injury, that's the problem I have with keeping him in there. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

3 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

 

I think for me the problem I had with Shanny was not solely the fact that he let him play hurt, but that it was clear at an early point that the injury had rendered him completely ineffective. I know a lot of guys tough it out and play hurt and end up winning games, but it was pretty clear early on in that game after the first injury that RG3 had nothing left and was actively hurting the team by being in there. He couldn't scramble, couldn't pass, couldn't do any of the things that had made him so dynamic. Plus, Seattle was having their way with our defense for the most part, and it was clear that we were going to have to score more than 14 points. I just could see no way that RG3 at that point was going to be able to lead us to any of those points. If he was still moving the ball hurt, then I could see keeping him in there in a playoff game. But when he's doing nothing because of that injury, that's the problem I have with keeping him in there. 

 

Yeah I get that but of course that's not what Shanny has been criticized for. 

 

What's that saying "dance with the one you brung" or something like that.  Griff was his horse, the team's best player that year. In those instance even when hurt Shannahan may may have felt he offered them the best chance to win.