A New Start! Ron Rivera, Dan Snyder, The Front Office, and Anything Team Related (other than name change)

[JSSkinz]

 

[Vanguard]

Ron is trying to get too many cool points with some of theses decisions and hires.  He is too keen on discipline.  Winning and improvement should be the concern, not publicity.

[goskins10]

26 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

Ron is trying to get too many cool points with some of theses decisions and hires.  He is too keen on discipline.  Winning and improvement should be the concern, not publicity.

 

Not sure I get this at all. I do not see this a publicity stunt. He is a more genuine person than that. I think he is being him. ANd that will not be any different here or anywhere. 

[Vanguard]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

Not sure I get this at all. I do not see this a publicity stunt. He is a more genuine person than that. I think he is being him. ANd that will not be any different here or anywhere. 

I get the military zoom because of memorial day, I guess.  But all I hear from him is how things need to be routine, how much he likes discipline; and one or two of his hires seem to be more about attracting a certain audience, than it is about winning.  Did you see any of this meeting?  He harped on how he’s been following a certain schedule since childhood.  I want the players to have fun along with winning.  Too much discipline can be detrimental.

[goskins10]

20 hours ago, Vanguard said:

I get the military zoom because of memorial day, I guess.  But all I hear from him is how things need to be routine, how much he likes discipline; and one or two of his hires seem to be more about attracting a certain audience, than it is about winning.  Did you see any of this meeting?  He harped on how he’s been following a certain schedule since childhood.  I want the players to have fun along with winning.  Too much discipline can be detrimental.

 

No I did not see it at all. But I would disagree with the bold for this team right now. This has been the worst run franchise for literally a few decades outside a few small respites. No discipline. Not order. No accountability. I have zero problem with him doing what he feels he needs to develop and create the right culture. This has been a ship without a rudder for too long. The fun comes with winning. But to get there you have to put in the hard work. You have to buy into the system completely. 

 

Not trying to be an ass but I really have no idea what you mean about a few hires have been about attracting a certain audience than about winning. First, not sure who that audience is since all any of the fans want is to win. And what would be the purpose? Sorry but I am still not seeing anything out of line here. 

 

He is bringing in people that buy into his system. That believe in what he is trying to build. And that is exactly what he is supposed to be doing. 

[Vanguard]

48 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

No I did not see it at all. But I could disagree with the bold for this team right now. This has been the worst run franchise for literally a few decades outside a few small respites. No discipline. Not order. No accountability. I have zero problem with him doing what he feels he needs to develop and create the right culture. This has been a ship without a rudder for too long. The fun comes with winning. But to get there you have to put in the hard work. You have to buy into the system completely. 

 

Not trying to be an ass but I really have no idea what you mean about a few hires have been about attracting a certain audience than about winning. First, not sure who that audience is since all any of the fans want is to win. And what would be the purpose? Sorry but I am still not seeing anything out of line here. 

 

He is bringing in people that buy into his system. That believe in what he is trying to build. And that is exactly what he is supposed to be doing. 

Discipline is fine.  I’m talking about too much discipline.  You ever have those teachers that made class no fun because of how strict they were?  And attracting a certain audience, I kind of wanted you to read between the lines.  He wants to attract more female fans.  I think he’s hired two female coaches, one is strength and conditioning I think.  Makes it look kind of like the move of a politician.  He says they were the most qualified, if that’s true, then whatever.  And I can’t say discipline has really been the issue.  It has more to do with poor coaching, and being unprepared.  We haven’t had an outpouring of discipline issues; felons, locker room cancers, behavior problems, etc.....

[goskins10]

4 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

Discipline is fine.  I’m talking about too much discipline.  You ever have those teachers that made class no fun because of how strict they were?  And attracting a certain audience, I kind of wanted you to read between the lines.  He wants to attract more female fans.  I think he’s hired two female coaches, one is strength and conditioning I think.  Makes it look kind of like the move of a politician.  He says they were the most qualified, if that’s true, then whatever.  And I can’t say discipline has really been the issue.  It has more to do with poor coaching, and being unprepared.  We haven’t had an outpouring of discipline issues; felons, locker room cancers, behavior problems, etc.....

 

That is really my point. Right now considering the dumpster fire this franchise has been, come in hard and strong. Make your will known. You can relax a little later if it's warranted. Ask the guys who played for Belichik how much fun it was until you win. The enjoyment comes out of playing good football and winning championships. And right now with the pandemic he does not have guys in the room so he has to be even more regimented to get his point across. I have no problem with this. None at all. 

 

As for the other thing - I don't read between the lines becasue that lends itself to making **** up and trying to fit a narrative that's in not there. So let me be really clear here - with all due respect I see his hiring of two women as pandering to a female demographic as complete and utter non-sense. I looked both these women up and they are both highly qualified. in fact they are at least as qualified if not infinitely more qualified than their male peers. In fact they are infinitely more qualified than several of the male coaches in similar positions on this very team. And i see no one discussing trying to reach a demographic with those hires. So the idea he is pandering to a female demographic based on those two hires is I believe utter non-sense.

 

I will not respond to this portion again here as it borders on politics. Only reason I did was it is about Redskins coaches so kind of makes sense, especially since it relates to Ron R. Any response from here will have to be in the Tailgate. But i am happy to continue the discussion there. I have plenty of facts to support my position. I just need to find them from the other times this was brought up. 

[Conn]

Being disciplined is not just about staying out of off-field or locker room trouble. 

 

It's playbook knowledge. It's mechanics. It's false starts. It's starting slow. It's playing soft. It's communication in the secondary. It's willingness to block. It's knowing your role. It's preparing like a starter as a backup. 

 

Gruden teams had issues with all those things. His teams played sloppy and always had excuses. They weren't professional at all.

[wit33]

Ron’s not a new head coach read up a bit on how players respond to his coaching style. Ron’s elite coaching trait is establishing culture and leading men. Should be the least of our concerns.
 

 

[Vanguard]

27 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

That is really my point. Right now considering the dumpster fire this franchise has been, come in hard and strong. Make your will known. You can relax a little later if it's warranted. Ask the guys who played for Belichik how much fun it was until you win. The enjoyment comes out of playing good football and winning championships. And right now with the pandemic he does not have guys in the room so he has to be even more regimented to get his point across. I have no problem with this. None at all. 

 

As for the other thing - I don't read between the lines becasue that lends itself to making **** up and trying to fit a narrative that's in not there. So let me be really clear here - with all due respect I see his hiring of two women as pandering to a female demographic as complete and utter non-sense. I looked both these women up and they are both highly qualified. in fact they are at least as qualified if not infinitely more qualified than their male peers. In fact they are infinitely more qualified than several of the male coaches in similar positions on this very team. And i see no one discussing trying to reach a demographic with those hires. So the idea he is pandering to a female demographic based on those two hires is I believe utter non-sense.

 

I will not respond to this portion again here as it borders on politics. Only reason I did was it is about Redskins coaches so kind of makes sense, especially since it relates to Ron R. Any response from here will have to be in the Tailgate. But i am happy to continue the discussion there. I have plenty of facts to support my position. I just need to find them from the other times this was brought up. 

Well you’re way more passionate about it than I am.  But if some problem arises as a result of those hirings; that’s all I’m saying.  Maybe you and Riggo have never encountered that kind of thing in the workplace.

 

 

14 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Being disciplined is not just about staying out of off-field or locker room trouble. 

 

It's playbook knowledge. It's mechanics. It's false starts. It's starting slow. It's playing soft. It's communication in the secondary. It's willingness to block. It's knowing your role. It's preparing like a starter as a backup. 

 

Gruden teams had issues with all those things. His teams played sloppy and always had excuses. They weren't professional at all.

To me that’s coaching.  And that’s why I said coaching has more to do with the issues than discipline.  Yes we could use some discipline.  But knowing how to communicate to players in a way that makes them passionate about what they do, and putting them in a position to succeed (scheme wise and mentally)..........that’s coaching.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Vanguard said:

Well you’re way more passionate about it than I am.  But if some problem arises as a result of those hirings; that’s all I’m saying.  Maybe you and Riggo have never encountered that kind of thing in the workplace.

 

So you're saying, essentially, "you shouldn't hire women because it might cause problems".

 

This is the definition of discrimination/discriminatory hiring practices (if someone with actual power were to make hiring decisions with this logic). And it's sexist. And you already accused Rivera of making those hires for reasons related to pandering.

 

I don't mean to cast dispersions, but I wanted to lay out what you're saying here from an outside perspective.

 

Quote

To me that’s coaching.  And that’s why I said coaching has more to do with the issues than discipline.  Yes we could use some discipline.  But knowing how to communicate to players in a way that makes them passionate about what they do, and putting them in a position to succeed (scheme wise and mentally)..........that’s coaching.

 

You're just assigning arbitrary definitions to things, which is fine as long as all parties in the conversation have the same understanding of definitions. A lot of what you describe as being attributed to coaching is mixed up in general leadership/discipline. But the reality is that you can't really seperate any of it, it's semantics. It's all important and it all overlaps. And Rivera is specifically known for excelling in this area.

[Vanguard]

1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

So you're saying, essentially, "you shouldn't hire women because it might cause problems".

 

This is the definition of discrimination/discriminatory hiring practices (if someone with actual power were to make hiring decisions with this logic). And it's sexist. 

 

 

 

You're just assigning arbitrary definitions to things, which is fine as long as all parties in the conversation have the same understanding of definitions. A lot of what you describe as being attributed to coaching is mixed up in general leadership/discipline. But the reality is that you can't really seperate any of it, it's semantics. It's all important and it all overlaps. And Rivera is specifically known for excelling in this area.

 You like to argue.  And you’re arguing for the sake of arguing.  Funny how you decided to ignore my statement about them being qualified.  If they’re qualified so be it.  But there is more risk involved.  Did I ever say don’t hire women?  Check yourself.

 

And if you have a personal beef.  You need to speak on it.  Don’t use this topic as a smokescreen.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

 

[Conn]

20 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

 You like to argue.  And you’re arguing for the sake of arguing.  Funny how you decided to ignore my statement about them being qualified.  If they’re qualified so be it.  But there is more risk involved.  Did I ever say don’t hire women?  Check yourself.

 

And if you have a personal beef.  You need to speak on it.  Don’t use this topic as a smokescreen.

 

Read my edit above, first. There's nothing personal here, I don't know you in the least. All I have to go on are your posts I'm responding to here. I get that it's not fun to have it pointed out that a thought process we're having is unintentionally sexist or discriminatory. It's mostly dudes here on ES, we all need to come to grips with this kind of thing happening to move forward. 

 

Then I'd ask that you do your best to check yourself and take stock of your own biases that you're unwittingly revealing here. Re-read what you wrote from someone else's POV:

 

You started by worrying that these hires Rivera made were made to pander to other women--I'm assuming you meant female fans, or maybe you meant left-leaning people in general, I'm not sure.

 

You also, yes, made the comment that "if" they're "qualified" it's fine, but coming at it from that angle at all is by definition sexist. You are starting from a position of worry that they are NOT qualified and were in fact hired predominantly to pander. It's all right in your posts. 

 

And then the last part. "It's fine but I'm just saying there could be problems" is the paraphrase. You're starting from a position of 'it's easier not to hire women than to create a work environment where the men just don't cause problems with the women'. That's also inherently sexist. 

 

None of this is really disputable. It's what you posted. There's no beef here, I just don't think you get the wider implications of what you're saying, and that's common because we aren't always used to looking at these issues from another point of view. Deep down a lot of us are trained to look at things through the lens that you are here, and that's the problem.

[Vanguard]

@ConnSKINS26

 

Point taken.  I would use the “if qualified” statement regardless of gender.

[Bifflog]

All I have heard is his players love him, disciplinarian or not.

 

Think I've had my fill of the offseason.  Here's to games sooner rather than later...

[Conn]

 

Nice to see this praise from one of the few who witnessed the prior ****show

[Fresh8686]

I was watching a Redskins Talk Podcast this weekend that had Nick Sundberg and Tress Way on there. Tress was talking about how Ron addressed the whole organization on Zoom and had Tress so hype that he jumped out of his chair and stiff-armed his daughter and tackled his 2 year old son. Obviously he was joking, but both him and Nick were very impressed with Rivera so far.

[Panninho]

14 hours ago, Bifflog said:

All I have heard is his players love him, disciplinarian or not.

 

Think I've had my fill of the offseason.  Here's to games sooner rather than later...

Not just the players. If you looked at his final press conference for the Panthers there wasn't one person that did not come up to him afterwards to thank him and wish him all the best (mainly reporters). I think he is a genuinely good person. I like that he is tough and demands discipline because I feel that's something this team has been missing for quite some time but I just cannot see how you can come to the conclusion that what he does is "too much discipline". He is not a dictator and not an asshole. You can see from the Panthers All or nothing documentary that he cares about his players, so he isn't just tough for the sake of being tough.

 

[LD0506]

I get what Vanguard was trying to say, although I might use different terms. Hard for the sake of hard isn't disciplined, it's brittle, fixed and unmoving. I don't see RR this way at all. IMO the essence of discipline is consistency, you do what you do well and do it right, over and over again. As your "right" shifts, you learn and practice and consistently do the new "right". That to me is discipline.

 

An awful lot of the fanbase is uneasy right now, Rivera represents a fundamental change that we haven't seen in our lifetimes. Even JG let the guys get away with a lot as long as they came through on gameday (except for January 22, 1984, date which shall live in infamy). We have not seen a disciplined, professional franchise here. We have seen the exact diametrical opposite of that, but this? Nope, something new. And new is often unsettling. Just human nature.

 

The rule of thumb I use is the one already mentioned, how others react to Ron's "style" of coaching, a style that extends beyond the lockerroom and beyond gameday. The respect from virtually everyone is astounding, and dammit, I'll take some respect for my team.

[Koolblue13]

On 5/15/2020 at 6:08 PM, Burgundy Yoda said:

There are exactly zero red dwarfs as a coach or GM in the NFL. I will join the Redskins and ensure we get a second pick in the first round this year. Join the Redskins I will, prosper in the draft we must. 

your screen name makes so much sense now.

[Fresh8686]

 

I’m so glad our team is dedicated to creating manufactured uncertainty. Our offense was horrible at that last year and defenses tee’d off on us. 

[redskinss]

3 hours ago, LD0506 said:

An awful lot of the fanbase is uneasy right now, Rivera represents a fundamental change that we haven't seen in our lifetimes. Even JG let the guys get away with a lot as long as they came through on gameday (except for January 22, 1984, date which shall live in infamy). We have not seen a disciplined, professional franchise here. We have seen the exact diametrical opposite of that, but this? Nope, something new. And new is often unsettling. Just human nature.

 

The rule of thumb I use is the one already mentioned, how others react to Ron's "style" of coaching, a style that extends beyond the lockerroom and beyond gameday. The respect from virtually everyone is astounding, and dammit, I'll take some respect for my team.

All good points, and maybe rivera needs to learn how to let his players be themselves and have fun out there while at the same time instilling discipline. 

Maybe that's why gibbs is one of the winningest coaches in nfl history and rivera is a .500 coach because he doesn't know how much of each is needed to produce champions?

My opinion is that Rivera is an amazing person and leader and makes people want to charge through walls for him but probably lacks some in the creativity and imagination department when it comes to game plans and the "chess match" portion of football so to speak. 

I think he's a great coach who needs innovative and smart coordinators to succeed.

I think we have that in del rio and Turner is a question mark but has the pedigree. 

 

I'm very optimistic for our future and think if we get the right pieces in place we could be a damn good football team in the years to come.

[Mr. Sinister]

I'm fine with him motivating, leading , and managing the team in situational type circumstances.  Empower your coordinators to play all the chess.

 

 

[Blind Reckoning]

Ron seems like a good guy. Jay was a good guy. Ron's approach is definitely a bit more sound  but having more of a track record he has the leeway to do it exactly how he wants to do it. I'm optimistic and honestly it's not realistic not to expect improvement. Having watched this team since 83 there's a patience. How much improvement? How long that takes?  I'm not just watching to see if anyone keels over from the Kool aid I want to know it taste great too.