Welcome the Redskins Jack Del Rio---And defensive philosophy

[redskinss]

Curious if they retain any of the position coaches. 

I know we all love tomsula but honestly I think we're better off if he walks away on good terms.

We need a fresh start and wide open eyes and ears soaking in all the new philosophies and any holdovers could possibly create some division on defensive philosophies. 

Unfortunately when cutting out cancer sometimes some good tissue has to go.

[LetThePointsSoar]

This hire reminds me of when Gruden was brought in and we all wanted Wade Phillips as DC.   Except this time, we actually LAND the best DC available.

[PlayAction]

5 minutes ago, Skins199021 said:

So who is out though? Does Sweat Move to OLB here? (And you know what I mean, OLB is way different in a 4-3).

 

Allen-Ioannidas-Payne-Young Front 4?  Sweat at OLB? Kerrigan and Settle gone? No MLB that would sniff success is currently on the roster

Sweat would play DE (same position he played in college).  There's a role for Settle in a 4-3 front.  Kerrigan could play LDE - the only issue will be his contract.  I wouldn't make any assumptions on Young just yet.  What if the Bengals throw a curve ball and pick him?

[Master Blaster]

14 hours ago, panahoo said:

I assume you mean Reuben? I think the combo of the two would be awesome. Ragland at Mike and Foster at Sam? Put Anderson at Will with Young, Sweat, Allen and Payne up front. Wow. That is a lot of bama boys....

If those were the linebackers Anderson and Foster would switch spots. 

[FrFan]

 

[mistertim]

26 minutes ago, Skins199021 said:

So who is out though? Does Sweat Move to OLB here? (And you know what I mean, OLB is way different in a 4-3).

 

Allen-Ioannidas-Payne-Young Front 4?  Sweat at OLB? Kerrigan and Settle gone? No MLB that would sniff success is currently on the roster

 

No way, Allen, Ioan, Payne are all pure DTs in a 4-3 (with Payne and Settle being NTs in a 4-3 Under front). I actually saw Allen as an end in a 4-3 front at Bama a few times when watching some film before we drafted him. He sucked there. He didn't have the flexibility to bend the edge, the speed to get around Tackles, or the length to keep a Tackle's hands off of him. He's a straight up interior 1 gap guy. But he's damn good at it (which is why I REALLY hope they don't try to make him be a 2 gapper. Complete waste of a huge talent).

 

Sweat is definitely an end in a 4-3. Long and rangy, athletic freak, plenty of burst. If we get Chase Young I'd put Sweat at LDE and Young at RDE (but still move them around at times to mess with matchups). With the right scheme and coaching that front 4 could be an absolute terror to any opposing offense. 

[Skin'emAlive]

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

No way, Allen, Ioan, Payne are all pure DTs in a 4-3 (with Payne and Settle being NTs in a 4-3 Under front). I actually saw Allen as an end in a 4-3 front at Bama a few times when watching some film before we drafted him. He sucked there. He didn't have the flexibility to bend the edge, the speed to get around Tackles, or the length to keep a Tackle's hands off of him. He's a straight up interior 1 gap guy. But he's damn good at it (which is why I REALLY hope they don't try to make him be a 2 gapper. Complete waste of a huge talent).

 

Sweat is definitely an end in a 4-3. Long and rangy, athletic freak, plenty of burst. If we get Chase Young I'd put Sweat at LDE and Young at RDE (but still move them around at times to mess with matchups). With the right scheme and coaching that front 4 could be an absolute terror to any opposing offense. 

Ideally we should trade Kerrigan for a 3rd, to be used on a TE/WR/C, and filling his spot with a FA. Otherwise, he should play strong side lb, and Anderson weak side, with Holcomb and others duking it out for mlb. 
 

Presuming we take the obvious choice with Young, at some point we will have To make a choice between Allen, Payne, and Ion. May have to be pragmatic there. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Ideally we should trade Kerrigan for a 3rd, to be used on a TE/WR/C, and filling his spot with a FA. Otherwise, he should play strong side lb, and Anderson weak side, with Holcomb and others duking it out for mlb. 
 

Presuming we take the obvious choice with Young, at some point we will have To make a choice between Allen, Payne, and Ion. May have to be pragmatic there. 

 

Any plan that involves Kerrigan and Anderson at the OLB spots with primary coverage roles is a scary plan.

[Skin'emAlive]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Any plan that involves Kerrigan and Anderson at the OLB spots with primary coverage roles is a scary plan.

Haha, yea. I’m presuming that the pressure we will get with the DL and Del Rio will make up for their lack of coverage ability. 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Haha, yea. I’m presuming that the pressure we will get with the DL and Del Rio will make up for their lack of coverage ability. 

 

I'm not sure having a DL of Haloti Ngata in his prime, with Aaron Donald and Geno Atkins to spell and Lawrence Taylor/Reggie White at the ends would disguise their coverage deficiencies.

[Skins199021]

42 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

No way, Allen, Ioan, Payne are all pure DTs in a 4-3 (with Payne and Settle being NTs in a 4-3 Under front). I actually saw Allen as an end in a 4-3 front at Bama a few times when watching some film before we drafted him. He sucked there. He didn't have the flexibility to bend the edge, the speed to get around Tackles, or the length to keep a Tackle's hands off of him. He's a straight up interior 1 gap guy. But he's damn good at it (which is why I REALLY hope they don't try to make him be a 2 gapper. Complete waste of a huge talent).

 

Sweat is definitely an end in a 4-3. Long and rangy, athletic freak, plenty of burst. If we get Chase Young I'd put Sweat at LDE and Young at RDE (but still move them around at times to mess with matchups). With the right scheme and coaching that front 4 could be an absolute terror to any opposing offense. 

This is my point though... who is out?

 

The way I see it at least two people have to be traded. I can't see any of Ioan, Payne or Allen being happy with a coming off the bench role at this point. Anderson doesn't fit, no room for KErrigan at his salary, There really isn't a NT in the 4-3 (Settle)

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

It's a shame that Bullock article is on a pay site. I would love to read it.

That was a birthday gift from my wife that I greatly appreciate. We're still debating on if we're going to get WP but the Athletic has such good content, and I went ahead and told Bullock that his weekly articles are some of my favorites of the week. 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Skins199021 said:

This is my point though... who is out?

 

The way I see it at least two people have to be traded. I can't see any of Ioan, Payne or Allen being happy with a coming off the bench role at this point. Anderson doesn't fit, no room for KErrigan at his salary, There really isn't a NT in the 4-3 (Settle)

 

Payne is a prototypical 4-3 1-technique.

 

Allen is a prototypical 4-3 3-technique.

 

Ioan can play both spots, and likely will. Big guys get spelled a lot.

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I'm not sure having a DL of Haloti Ngata in his prime, with Aaron Donald and Geno Atkins to spell and Lawrence Taylor/Reggie White at the ends would disguise their coverage deficiencies.

This is the first year in a long time that I've been confident in the defensive staff. To the point where I'm not sitting here hoping and praying that a guy like Allen/Payne/Sweat/Kerrigan or whoever else can outperform the coaching and make plays. This is like the opposite of what I was saying with Haslett/Barry/Manusky. Then, I was basing it on them striking the lottery with talent and our draft picks being so good that it just made the DCs look respectable, and on our best years that's what has happened. But overall we've seen how bad these guys are. Now we have an opportunity to have some guys with a history of building good to great defenses, and molding great players come in here and work with what we call talent. I'm excited about it. 

 

One thing though about new DCs and new coaches. We always assume that they'll "use the scheme to fit the players" and "use players to their strengths" and "improve communication" and a lot of buzz phrases, but I'm more excited that even if Del Rio has a bland vanilla scheme, he's a guy whose scheme has worked in this league. And not just one or twice, but he's one of the most respected defensive minds in the game. I was pulling for him as a head coach because I thought he's that good. But I think he'll either be able to install a good scheme with who we have or we'll see some of these guys traded/cut/let go and he'll bring in the guys to better fit his scheme. Lets not forget that guys like Allen, Anderson and Kerrigan are not under long term deals so if they're not as good as we think we have an easy out. 

[SkinsGuy]

1 hour ago, PlayAction said:

I wouldn't make any assumptions on Young just yet.  What if the Bengals throw a curve ball and pick him?

 

I agree with this.

 

I haven't talked much about Young because there is no guarantee he will be with the Redskins come late April.

 

The Bengals could select him with the first pick.

 

A team could trade up to the first pick, jumping over the Redskins, and take Young.

 

Young could decide to stay in college (that doesn't seem likely, though).

 

Until I actually hear Roger Goodell say "With the second pick in the NFL Draft, the Washington Redskins take DL Chase Young, Ohio State" I'll patiently wait.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

One thing though about new DCs and new coaches. We always assume that they'll "use the scheme to fit the players" and "use players to their strengths" and "improve communication" and a lot of buzz phrases, but I'm more excited that even if Del Rio has a bland vanilla scheme, he's a guy whose scheme has worked in this league. And not just one or twice, but he's one of the most respected defensive minds in the game. I was pulling for him as a head coach because I thought he's that good. But I think he'll either be able to install a good scheme with who we have or we'll see some of these guys traded/cut/let go and he'll bring in the guys to better fit his scheme. Lets not forget that guys like Allen, Anderson and Kerrigan are not under long term deals so if they're not as good as we think we have an easy out. 

 

Same. But, still, you need the pieces. You don't need studs persay… You need good players that can fill roles. I don't see a single guy that can play OLB besides Foster (who I don't count) and MAYBE SDH. Anderson as a rush WILL type who drops once in a while works, but that's more situational. 

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, Skins199021 said:

This is my point though... who is out?

 

The way I see it at least two people have to be traded. I can't see any of Ioan, Payne or Allen being happy with a coming off the bench role at this point. Anderson doesn't fit, no room for KErrigan at his salary, There really isn't a NT in the 4-3 (Settle)

 

You always want to have a rotation of guys on your DL to keep them fresh, especially interior, if at all possible (though some guys will inevitably play more than others) so I think having all of those DL guys is actually a good thing. Gives you lots of options for looks, and ways to make sure you have fresh guys out on the field. I think Anderson could fit in a rotational/backup role as a LDE or a SAM in a 4-3 (though I'd be a bit worried about him covering TEs on passing downs as a SAM...he doesn't have the speed to keep up with the better ones). I don't think he's athletic enough to play WILL. Kerrigan I would like to keep for depth (with Sweat starting at LDE) but his price is pretty high so I might try to see i I could trade him. 

 

As far as no NT, that really depends on the specific front. In a 4-3 Under front you do have a guy who would be an NT as he'd be filling/shooting the same gaps that a NT does in a 3-4. 

[FuriousD]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Same. But, still, you need the pieces. You don't need studs persay… You need good players that can fill roles. I don't see a single guy that can play OLB besides Foster (who I don't count) and MAYBE SDH. Anderson as a rush WILL type who drops once in a while works, but that's more situational. 

So, if you are Del Rio, and your preferred scheme is 4-3 but you've just been handed a 3-4 squad... do you plan a switch right away? Or do you use 2 years of free agency and draft to gather talent and roll out your new 4-3 in 2021?

 

Plus weight room and diet.  Haz and Shanny had guys dropping weight and building bulk to grind square pegs into round holes...

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, FuriousD said:

So, if you are Del Rio, and your preferred scheme is 4-3 but you've just been handed a 3-4 squad... do you plan a switch right away? Or do you use 2 years of free agency and draft to gather talent and roll out your new 4-3 in 2021?

I switch as soon as I can. Which would be immediately. But I play it more fitting to scheme. I wouldn’t be surprised to see this team use a ton of Nickel anyways. So I’d say a 4-2 scheme makes sense to use a good portion of the time.

 

Issue is, as evidenced from last season, were still lacking LBs for a 4-2. Honestly, we’re lacking the LBs for a 3-4. LB is significant issue for this team. 

[Skin'emAlive]

8 minutes ago, Skins199021 said:

This is my point though... who is out?

 

The way I see it at least two people have to be traded. I can't see any of Ioan, Payne or Allen being happy with a coming off the bench role at this point. Anderson doesn't fit, no room for KErrigan at his salary, There really isn't a NT in the 4-3 (Settle)

Settle is a much needed, quality backup. We can get away with Ion/Payne/Allen this year, but one of them must be traded. Ion probably stays because of his contract. It’s a tough decision to make, but you can’t pay all of them and Sweat/Young. 
 

I presume we will see what we have in Brailford/Anderson/McKinzie/at weak side LB, Holcomb/Bostic/Foster at mlb. We will definitely need to make some moves in FA to shore up the lb core. But imo, FA money should go to TE/DB positions first. 

[HigSkin]

 

[Stormy]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I switch as soon as I can. Which would be immediately. But I play it more fitting to scheme. I wouldn’t be surprised to see this team use a ton of Nickel anyways. So I’d say a 4-2 scheme makes sense to use a good portion of the time.

 

Issue is, as evidenced from last season, were still lacking LBs for a 4-2. Honestly, we’re lacking the LBs for a 3-4. LB is significant issue for this team. 

How much would a.) a healthy Foster (though that can’t be relied upon), and b.) trading back a couple of spots and drafting Simmons instead of Young, address those 4-3/4-2 LB deficiencies in your mind? Or do you think Simmons is too much of a hybrid tweeter? 

[Koolblue13]

It's not uncommon to have your 4 down front, with an OLB outside with his hand in the dirt. If Allen is a end playing contain and Sweat and Young are on the other end attacking, Allen is a good piece to have. He's got great versatility as a 43DT being able to kick out. Having Iaon, Payne and Settle with Allen, is a jumbo front 4 that should be able to open up some great run blitz lanes. You certainly can't double Sweat and Young and not expect Payne and Iaon to collapse the middle.

 

Our defense is going to turn around immediately. I'm hoping for a significant investment in it this offseason to "finalize" it. 

 

Offense we need Guise and/or Love to have a healthy year. They're both dominant. If we can play stout D, run the ball well, Haskins won't have to shoulder the load. I really think this team is a lot closer than we realize. There's a ton of young talent. 

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Stormy said:

How much would a.) a healthy Foster (though that can’t be relied upon), and b.) trading back a couple of spots and drafting Simmons instead of Young, address those 4-3/4-2 LB deficiencies in your mind? Or do you think Simmons is too much of a hybrid tweeter? 

Simmons is my favorite player in the draft. I don’t deny that Young is a player at a bigger impact position and a top end talent. So I won’t deny drafting him is a fantastic move. But I think Simmons helps a lot. 
 

Foster and Simmons at the OLBs is a fantastic set up. Though, again, I never count Foster. He’s a bonus. But Simmons fixes one OLB spot entirely. 
 

That said, I don’t see the team passing on Young. It’s possible. Just don’t think so. So they need to find OLBs in FA or later rounds. It’s an absolute need. 

[Silvernon]

14 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

With Steve Wilks and Al Holcomb to be added shortly. New LB and secondary leaders.