Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Berggy9598]

4 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Its not about us taking tua, its about the bears not wanting miami to jump them and take him.

 

 

If detroit gets the notion that miami is in play, we can leverage that.  Were not gonna get multiple picks or anything.. but anything they give up is gravy if we move back to 3...assuming they take Tua

I never said it’s about the Redskins taking Tu’a. The Lions not only don’t  have much reason to believe the Redskins won’t take Chase Young, but also no reason to believe that they’d make a trade that pretty much ensures he goes to the Giants. 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Berggy9598

[50yrSKINSfan]

6 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Please show me where "everyone here" is sold on Haskins? In fact I would bet money more people are NOT sold on Haskins than are. But what people are sold on it's too early to waste the resources. If you want to trade Haskins and can get another 1st for him - I guess that's away to go. i still think Tua is not a risk you want to take considering the injury.

 

Redskins of all people should be wary of players with injuries. We have lived in injury hell for several years now. So the answer is use the #2 pick in the draft on a guy who severely dislocated his hip?  

I for one am not sold on Haskins but I do think he is serviceable while we are in a rebuilding mode. IMO he is a work in progress but I see him more as a journeyman QB rather than a top flight QB. I see the odds of Tua being a franchise QB a lot better than Haskins. I watched every Giant game this year and their rook QB looked better than Haskins but he did have the advantage of working with the 1st team when Haskins did not. As far as the injury I think I heard this week that Tua passed on his exam and that he is expected to be back to his pre injury condition. In the past I was also under the impression that you should take a franchise QB if you have the first 2 or 3 picks in the draft and if you do not need the QB then you trade the pick to someone who needs the QB for multiple picks. A pass rusher is not even close to the value of a franchise QB. Another thing that bothers me is why if these pass rushers are so desirable then how come the 2 or 3 best vet pass rushers have been traded this past year? Did Mack put the Bears in the playoffs this year?

[Skin'emAlive]

Quote

Did Mack put the bears in the playoffs last year

Did Bosa help take the 9ers within an inch of a Super Bowl ring? 

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Did Bosa help take the 9ers within an inch of a Super Bowl ring? 

Did Von Miller dominate the 2015-16 playoffs and win SB MVP?

[Warhead36]

The reality is, no one player wins a Super Bowl by himself, but history suggests that after franchise QB, the next best way to consistent success is having a dominant pass rush. See the Eli Giants with Strahan and Osi among others up front. The Steelers and Ravens were always great up front with guys like Harrison and Suggs, respectively. The Broncos with Miller and Ware.

 

Stud elite pass rusher is basically the franchise QB equivalent on defense(except not quite as impactful).

[CommanderDOOM]

22 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

.... how come the 2 or 3 best vet pass rushers have been traded this past year? Did Mack put the Bears in the playoffs this year?

 

Cost. But Isn’t a dominant pass rush the equalizer to an elite Qb?

And to have an elite pass rush for the cheap would be a serious advantage.

[Anselmheifer]

30 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

 A pass rusher is not even close to the value of a franchise QB. 

 

Another thing that bothers me is why if these pass rushers are so desirable then how come the 2 or 3 best vet pass rushers have been traded this past year? Did Mack put the Bears in the playoffs this year?

 

Mack and who else? Also, Mack did put the Bears in the playoffs last year. This year, he only posted 8.5 sacks. I don't know how much that can be expected to move the needle in terms of wins over replacement. 

In general though, you are right. a QB is more valuable, BY FAR, than any other positional player. If Tua were healthy, I think we should grab him. I like Haskins, but he hasn't proven anything yet and I feel strongly that a healthy Tua is a Deshaun Watson caliber player. He will immediately elevate a team and keep them in the playoff conversation , to some degree regardless of surrounding roster. Only a QB can really do that. 

 

In any case, he isn't healthy, and it isn't just the hip. The hip is his 3rd surgery in basically 2 years. He's looks like a Jordan Reed or Christ Thompson. A huge gamble. And you are betting basically a pass rusher who looks like he as a multi-pro bowl floor and a HOF ceiling against Tua's health. 

 

I think that if we didn't have have Haskins on the Roster, we take Tua. The reality is though, that if Haskins sucks, we will have other opportunities to grab that QB. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

35 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Did Bosa help take the 9ers within an inch of a Super Bowl ring? 

Ya sure he helped but that team is stacked for gods sake. Common man. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

But if you get a Hershel Walker/RG3 type deal I think you have to consider it. 

Consider yes, take no.  
 

IF you evaluate Young as Reggie White or Bruce Smith, then you take him. Period. Because even with the massive trades, your bust potential per pick is still high.  Take the surest thing you’ve got and go with it.

 

However if you think Young is just a pro bowl level, but not generational HOF talent, you take the trade.

 

Its all about Kyle Smith’s Final grade.  

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

Please show me where "everyone here" is sold on Haskins? In fact I would bet money more people are NOT sold on Haskins than are.

His post seemed like a “if I say it I can talk it into existence” type of post. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

24 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Mack and who else? Also, Mack did put the Bears in the playoffs last year. This year, he only posted 8.5 sacks. I don't know how much that can be expected to move the needle in terms of wins over replacement. 

In general though, you are right. a QB is more valuable, BY FAR, than any other positional player. If Tua were healthy, I think we should grab him. I like Haskins, but he hasn't proven anything yet and I feel strongly that a healthy Tua is a Deshaun Watson caliber player. He will immediately elevate a team and keep them in the playoff conversation , to some degree regardless of surrounding roster. Only a QB can really do that. 

 

In any case, he isn't healthy, and it isn't just the hip. The hip is his 3rd surgery in basically 2 years. He's looks like a Jordan Reed or Christ Thompson. A huge gamble. And you are betting basically a pass rusher who looks like he as a multi-pro bowl floor and a HOF ceiling against Tua's health. 

 

I think that if we didn't have have Haskins on the Roster, we take Tua. The reality is though, that if Haskins sucks, we will have other opportunities to grab that QB. 

U R right about us pos having a chance to grab a franchise QB again next year and right about Tua being a gamble but when you are a last place team what good is a elite pass rusher do if teams are running the ball down your throat. Far as anyone else, Clooney, Fowler, Smith to the Pack. All I can think of but elite pass rushers are available and elite QBs are not. I would feel better about CY ifwe did not draft a pass rusher last year and how much did that help. Pass rushers are great if you have a complete defense and you only need one or two players to make your D elite like the Pack did last year but week after week I saw our D getting pushed all over the field and I do not see CY stopping that.  I would much rather have a Mahomes or Watson than a CY. 

Edited February 15, 2020 by 50yrSKINSfan

[Anselmheifer]

33 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Far as anyone else, Clooney, Fowler, Smith to the Pack. All I can think of but elite pass rushers are available and elite QBs are not. I would feel better about CY if we did not draft a pass rusher last year and how much did that help. 

 

Mack is the only elite pass rusher to change hands recently, and the cost to get him was extraordinary. Fowler, Smith, Clowney, aren't elite pass rushers. It's hard to get an elite pass rusher in FA. Especially if that guy's in his prime. It's much more common to get an elite CB or S in FA or via trade. That happens all of the time. 

 

33 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

 I would much rather have a Mahomes or Watson than a CY. 

 

I'm saying this with a tongue in cheek affect, and not to be mean, but...duh. That's not exactly a hot take. Anybody would take Mahommes or Watson over any non-positional player.

 

I think the problem with grabbing QB this year is that there are too many unknowns. Haskins played pretty well after he was installed as the starter. I think PFF had him as the 11th or 12th best QB in the league over that period, and while none of us would confuse him with a pro-bowler last year, I think a lot of us saw Haskins as a solid starter with a big arm, more escapability and upside, after he was installed as a starter. If the beginning of the year had never happened, nobody would be wringing their hands about Haskins. Haskins could wind up being very good and Tua looks like a massive gamble. That combination is what makes us look at a possible Bruce Smith as the much surer bet.

 

I'm on record however as sating that I, personally, as a new GM, might take Tua. 

 

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

I for one am not sold on Haskins but I do think he is serviceable while we are in a rebuilding mode. IMO he is a work in progress but I see him more as a journeyman QB rather than a top flight QB. I see the odds of Tua being a franchise QB a lot better than Haskins. I watched every Giant game this year and their rook QB looked better than Haskins but he did have the advantage of working with the 1st team when Haskins did not. As far as the injury I think I heard this week that Tua passed on his exam and that he is expected to be back to his pre injury condition. In the past I was also under the impression that you should take a franchise QB if you have the first 2 or 3 picks in the draft and if you do not need the QB then you trade the pick to someone who needs the QB for multiple picks. A pass rusher is not even close to the value of a franchise QB. Another thing that bothers me is why if these pass rushers are so desirable then how come the 2 or 3 best vet pass rushers have been traded this past year? Did Mack put the Bears in the playoffs this year?

 

Really? We had no idea!   So basically your claiming "everyone" is sold on Haskins was just a ruse for you to trash him. Please, save us the subterfuge. Just say it and be done with it. 

 

As for Jones looking better every game than haskins - that is pure fiction. I watched the games. Jones started better but as th season went on Haskins got better and Jones struggled as defenses figured him out. Same may happen to haskins over the off season. Both will have to prove they can adjust - the difference is Haskins has already shown he can make adjustments and learn from mistakes. I see them in about the same place with a lot to prove. I think Haskins has a higher ceiling but Jones has a better base to draw from. Niether are locks to be the long term solution for their respective teams. 

 

As for Tua - I really could care less what the doctors say about his football prognosis. They can make him physically whole but they cannot tell what the injury will do to his ability to play. How many times have you heard they say - he will be 100% back to his previous self. Only for the player to never reach that same level of play. It's just not worth the #2 pick in the draft. Just to big a risk. It's easy to be cavalier when you are not directly responsible - IE fans vs the actual FO. 

 

I do like the talk among teams though. Someone could decide they just have to have Tua and offer a kinds ransom. And unlike my friend @Voice_of_Reason I would take the deal if it were big enough. But it's got to be big. Not taking a say a 1st and a 2nd unless it's Detroit and we still get Chase. 

 

As for the pass rusher comment - so a bad team makes a bad trade for one of the best players in football and it's his fault? Pass rusher is one of the top 3 positions on the field - QB, LT (although RT is creeping in) and Edge. That's the foundation of your team. You get those 3 pieces and start building from there. Chicago convinced themselves they were done once they got Mack when in fact they should have been just getting started. 

[Anselmheifer]

4 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

As for Jones looking better every game than haskins - that is pure fiction. I watched the games. Jones started better but as th season went on Haskins got better and Jones struggled as defenses figured him out. Same may happen to haskins over the off season. Both will have to prove they can adjust - the difference is Haskins has already shown he can make adjustments and learn from mistakes. I see them in about the same place with a lot to prove. I think Haskins has a higher ceiling but Jones has a better base to draw from. Niether are locks to be the long term solution for their respective teams. 

 

 

Jones was better than I thought he would be, but he's still going to be a limited QB. He doesn't have the arm to get the ball down the field. He wasn't that good in HS or college and he won't be that good in the pro's. Career journeyman. 

The Giants are terrible at drafting. They should have grabbed Josh Allen for the DL last year, or any number of other players, and then Tua this year. Or a QB over Barkley. Taking a RB over a QB? I know that Barkley is awesome, but RB careers are short and the positional value just isn't there. They bungle it every year. 

 

I'm surprised that nobody has used the Myles Garrett example for Chase Young. How much has Garrett moved the needle in Cleveland. Garrett is very good and Cleveland still sucks. Even their defense remains average at best. 

 

Football is the ultimate team game. You can't take an elite WR, OT or DE and expect to suddenly be good. The thing is, that's not what we are doing either. We just grabbed our QB last year and we are adding Chase, to what could be a stacked DL, if Sweat progresses nicely. We have one very good CB and SS and cap room to add to fill most of our major roster holes with quality players. 

 

How Haskins goes, this team goes, at this point. If Haskins is good, we should have enough quality parts at other positions to surprise people and be a good team on a yearly basis. I love Chase Young and assuming he's the pick. Assuming that is the case, you have to fix the back 7 and you HAVE to give Haskins an OL, a TE and another receiver. 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Anselmheifer

[Skin'emAlive]

I don’t think it’s fair to Haskins to compare to Jones. That man had Engram, Barkley, and Sheppard most of the season. Haskins was throwing to 3 rookie wrs and Spinkle behind a line missing arguably the best LT in the game right now. Im confident in a HUGE difference in play after we sign 1 or 2 quality TE’s, and either sign an AJ Green or draft another wr gem in the draft. This offense is going to take off next year. 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Skin'emAlive

[Skin'emAlive]

1 hour ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Ya sure he helped but that team is stacked for gods sake. Common man. 

Without Bosa, that defense isn’t even close to the same, and Jimmy G is no different than Trent Dilfer. 

[XxSpearheadxX]

32 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I'm surprised that nobody has used the Myles Garrett example for Chase Young. How much has Garrett moved the needle in Cleveland. Garrett is very good and Cleveland still sucks. Even their defense remains average at best. 

 

 

Physically I could see the comparison, Garret might actually edge him out in terms of pure athleticism a bit. Performance wise? Domination wise? Consistency wise? Young is in another class from Garrets college production, imo. 

 

Also factor in the line Young will be joining, they already were young and very good, with pisspoor linebacker play.  Add in competent linebackers and Young on the edge... they would be the type of line that wins 5 games by themselves

[evmiii]

Tua is just too big a risk.  There is absolutely no reason to believe that he can be more healthy in the NFL than he was at Alabama. Even if his hip is fully healed, he just seems fragile and NFL defenders are bigger and faster.  Zero chance the Redskins take him, possible some desperate GM false in love and chooses to permanently link his career to Tua and offers the world to get him.

 

Burrow is Haskins last year with a National Championship.  He had and outstanding year, slightly better statistically to the year Haskins had the year before.  He played without hesitation and threw to a couple very good WRs.  He is more mobile than Haskins, but his arm isn't as strong.  Both he and Haskins made good decisions in college and had aggressive schemes to press the ball down the field.  Both had very good run games and good balance offensively. (Note:  Haskins beat him out at Ohio State for the starting job, Burrow transferred to LSU and it worked out pretty good for both)

 

It is a bit confusing to me to hear some so anti Haskins coming out of college but so pro Burrow.

 

All that said, the Bengals will take Burrow (and be happy about it).  The Redskins will take Young (and be happy about it).  Some team will probably go crazy and trade up to Tua (and will initially be happy but end up heart broken).

 

From all I have read and seen, Tua is a great human being; overall great guy.  I hope as a football fan he can get healthy and play.  I just wouldn't bet anything I valued that this will happen.

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by evmiii

[Berggy9598]

2 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Did Bosa help take the 9ers within an inch of a Super Bowl ring? 

 

Mack did put the Bears in the playoffs the season before last. There are a few examples of dominant edge rushers of this caliber effecting the W/L column but people want to dig their heels

Edited February 15, 2020 by Berggy9598

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

I do like the talk among teams though. Someone could decide they just have to have Tua and offer a kinds ransom. And unlike my friend @Voice_of_Reason I would take the deal if it were big enough. But it's got to be big. Not taking a say a 1st and a 2nd unless it's Detroit and we still get Chase. 

Awww, you called me a fried.  I’m blushing.  Which is hard given my brown skin...
 

To be fair, I might take the deal.  My decision on taking the deal or not really comes down to evaluation.  And yeah, somebody could make a godfather offer (Minus the horse head) and I guess in that situation you have to take it because the trade value exceeds the chase young value.  
 

Everything in my opinion centers around your evaluation of Young.  And then you determine what it would take to move on from him.

 

If you told me we could have Reggie White in his prime for a decade, to me, that’s worth MORE than the griffin trade.  But that’s just my opinion.  It would be completely fair to say that level of prospect is equivalent to 3 first round selections and a second, and I would respect that position, even though I wouldn’t agree.  The assumption is you have to hit on at least 3 if the picks to make it worth it though.  And by hit, I mean multiple pro bowl type seasons, top 5-10 at their position.  If you could get 3 top 10 players instead of 1 “best in football, Defensive MVP candidate player, I guess that would be woth it.  
 

But if you trade down and get a bunch of Ryan Kerrigans, M. Sweats or Preston Smiths, I don’t think it’s worth it.  And I like all those guys.  But 3 of them is still not 1 Reggie White.  Now, if you pick up 3 Trent Williams types, who are not generational talents but damn good, multiple pro bowl and consensus top 10 at their position, it works.  At least, that’s how I view it.  

Edited February 15, 2020 by Voice_of_Reason

[KDawg]

Tua’s injury is fairly unprecedented. Which makes him a risk. But it’s not a knee. We really don’t know how it’s going to play out with him. Which is enough to give me enough pause on Tua to likely pass on him for Young.

 

So no, I’m not “on the Tua bandwagon”. But I’m also not NOT on it. I don’t believe in Haskins right now. It’s the most important position on the field. But, while I’m not sold, I think he could be a heck of a player. So that, in conjunction with Tua’s history makes me think I’d go Young. 
 

I think even with SF people are underrating the role Greenlaw had on that defense, which helped Bosa. Bosa is a stud. I don’t see Young being much different than him one way or the other. I know it’s popular to gush about generational, but we have a stud every other year at DE.

 

”They haven’t been the same as Young!” - Sure. Okay. 
 

I agree Young is a ****ing pitbull. But I hope the guys in charge do more due diligence. Look at Tua. Figure it out. 
 

Again, to reiterate because people seem to be glancing by this statement I’ve made: I likely wind up with Young if having to choose between them. 
 

If it’s between Tua and Burrow? I prefer Tua or a trade. And that’s not knocking Burrow’s skills. He’s really good. But give me a choice between them and I take Tua.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

But I’m also not NOT on it.

Double negatives are not your friend.  
 

I agree with everything you said.  They need work ups on everybody at the top of the draft so they are completely prepared for every scenario. 

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

f it’s between Tua and Burrow? I prefer Tua or a trade. And that’s not knocking Burrow’s skills. He’s really good. But give me a choice between them and I take Tua.

This entirely depends on the medical.
 

Tua was the consensus #1 prospect going into the year.  He would have been the same coming out if he had not gotten injured. 
 

Tanking for Tua was a thing.  
 

Nobody was Blowing for Burrow.   

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Double negatives are not your friend.  
 

I agree with everything you said.  They need work ups on everybody at the top of the draft so they are completely prepared for every scenario. 

This entirely depends on the medical.
 

Tua was the consensus #1 prospect going into the year.  He would have been the same coming out if he had not gotten injured. 
 

Tanking for Tua was a thing.  
 

Nobody was Blowing for Burrow.   

Of course it depends on the medical. You don’t draft a guy who gets a poor medical.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, KDawg said:

Of course it depends on the medical. You don’t draft a guy who gets a poor medical.

 

revised: Nobody smart drafts a player with bad medical. 

[NYSkins21]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The reality is, no one player wins a Super Bowl by himself...

Ray Lewis 2000? 😁

[HTTRDynasty]