Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

The Bears gave up 4 picks to move up one spot from 3 to 2...look it up. Three picks the year they drafted Trubisky and 1 pick the following year. And that was for Trubisky, not Tua. 

 

OK i missed a 4th. They gave up 3 picks. Two 3rds and a 4th. That's hardly a "****load" of draft capital; it's 3 mid round picks (one of them being a future pick). 

[mistertim]

13 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I would not discount Detroit taking a QB so much.  I've mentioned it before that Tua to Detroit makes a ton of sense.  Stafford is on the books for $30 mil this year, there's no getting out of it, so he's going to be playing there, or traded (not that anyone would take that contract).  That allows Tua to have a whole year in the system, while fully recovering.  Staffords contract over the final 3 years of the deal (21, 22, 23) is up over $55 million (2023 is only about $1.5 mil).  IF they were to move on from Stafford AFTER 2020, that number goes from $55 mil to $13.5 mil.  That's an insane amount of savings for a team that, in all likelihood, doesn't really stand a chance for at least 2 seasons.  Green Bay just played in the NFC Championship game, Minnesota still has Kirk for 1 year, and as talented as that team is, you imagine they'll win 9-11 games, and Chicago isn't exactly a power, but they're not the Bengals either.  Patricia is very likely on the hot seat, and so is Quinn.  Quinn could very well sell the farm to try and get a QB he 'can build around' with the idea that he buys himself a couple more seasons. 

 

If Patricia and Quinn are on the hot seat it's probably because the Lions had literally the 32nd rated pass defense in the NFL, 31st in total yards. They were awful. Before he had to be pulled due to injury, Stafford was having a potential All Pro year and was on pace for around 40 TDs and 10 INTs. So the answer to all of that is to.......draft a QB? One with major injury concerns? It makes zero sense. I don't 100% discount them looking for a QB in the top 5 but I'd guess it's about a 5% chance at best. They know where their weaknesses are and they're in a prime spot to draft an elite level guy to help out there (Okudah or Simmons for example...they'd absolutely love to get Chase but I'm sure they know we aren't trading 2 to them so they can get him). That OR they could listen to trade offers if Miami or someone wanted to move up for a QB. 

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

If Patricia and Quinn are on the hot seat it's probably because the Lions had literally the 32nd rated pass defense in the NFL, 31st in total yards. They were awful. Before he had to be pulled due to injury, Stafford was having a potential All Pro year and was on pace for around 40 TDs and 10 INTs. So the answer to all of that is to.......draft a QB? One with major injury concerns? It makes zero sense. I don't 100% discount them looking for a QB in the top 5 but I'd guess it's about a 5% chance at best. They know where their weaknesses are and they're in a prime spot to draft an elite level guy to help out there (Okudah or Simmons for example...they'd absolutely love to get Chase but I'm sure they know we aren't trading 2 to them so they can get him). That OR they could listen to trade offers if Miami or someone wanted to move up for a QB. 

 

 

I get that, but desperate people make brash decisions, especially regarding QBs.  Arizona just punted Rosen to Miami for no. 62, and a 5th round pick... a year after they took him 10th.  The Trubisky trade was mentioned.  I mentioned 'selling the farm' and that was not a good phrase to use, because they're not going to... I will change the term to "trade assets."  Miami would be the team to 'sell the farm' to get up to get Tua.  If Detroit ended up wanting Tua, and was able to offer us a 2nd this year, and a few more picks, why wouldn't we take it?  They save a ton of money with Stafford coming off the books, while adding a QB.  All of this is only works if Miami gets hot and bothered about Tua, but it's not necessarily a stretch.  I just don't think it's far fetched.  

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I get that, but desperate people make brash decisions, especially regarding QBs.  Arizona just punted Rosen to Miami for no. 62, and a 5th round pick... a year after they took him 10th.  The Trubisky trade was mentioned.  I mentioned 'selling the farm' and that was not a good phrase to use, because they're not going to... I will change the term to "trade assets."  Miami would be the team to 'sell the farm' to get up to get Tua.  If Detroit ended up wanting Tua, and was able to offer us a 2nd this year, and a few more picks, why wouldn't we take it?  They save a ton of money with Stafford coming off the books, while adding a QB.  All of this is only works if Miami gets hot and bothered about Tua, but it's not necessarily a stretch.  I just don't think it's far fetched.  

 

i certainly concede that it isn't impossible and I understand your reasoning. I just think it's really far fetched. Why replace the biggest bright spot on your team when the other side of the ball is atrocious and you have a chance to get an elite level prospect to help out there? I get that desperate people make rash decisions but IMO trading up with us for Tua would be flying over rash and landing right in Bizarro World.

 

Not only would it give them zero immediate returns (since they can't dump Stafford this season and he was playing at a borderline All Pro level last season), but would do nothing to make their worst in the NFL level defense any better. So to me it makes no sense for a desperate person to do that trade. If they're on the hot seat they need to improve now, not at some hypothetical point in the next year or so while hoping that Tua can actually be the same QB he was in the college. The risk is insane and doesn't do anything towards their most glaring weaknesses IMO.

[kingdaddy]

29 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

OK i missed a 4th. They gave up 3 picks. Two 3rds and a 4th. That's hardly a "****load" of draft capital; it's 3 mid round picks (one of them being a future pick). 

That's a lot of picks to move up one spot in the draft just to get Trubisky though. It shows how much teams fall in love with a guy and what they'll do to get him. Here's more food for thought on Tua, in listening to some of the guys talking on the Sirius NFL channel (Charlie Weis, Solomon Wilcox), supposedly Alabama guys are very pro ready when they enter the draft. More so than most other schools. I'm gonna bet Tua is gonna be even more sought after because of this....on top of his great skill set. Tua also checks off the boxes as a good face of the franchise and has played big in big games....he is gonna be highly sought after if he shows he's healthy and teams are gonna make very attractive offers to the Skins to move up and get him. 

[OVCChairman]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

i certainly concede that it isn't impossible and I understand your reasoning. I just think it's really far fetched. Why replace the biggest bright spot on your team when the other side of the ball is atrocious and you have a chance to get an elite level prospect to help out there? I get that desperate people make rash decisions but IMO trading up with us for Tua would be flying over rash and landing right in Bizarro World.

 

Not only would it give them zero immediate returns (since they can't dump Stafford this season and he was playing at a borderline All Pro level last season), but would do nothing to make their worst in the NFL level defense any better. So to me it makes no sense for a desperate person to do that trade. If they're on the hot seat they need to improve now, not at some hypothetical point in the next year or so while hoping that Tua can actually be the same QB he was in the college. The risk is insane and doesn't do anything towards their most glaring weaknesses IMO.

 

 

OK, that all makes a ton of sense....  fun hypothetical here then... since this is a Chase Young thread.  What if they fall in love with Young... could they overpay us to get him, knowing that we're pretty much locked in on taking him? 

Edited February 12, 2020 by OVCChairman

[LD0506]

I think people underestimate Patricia, he's serious about remaking Detroit and I don't expect him to do anything rash or stupid.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

From michael christopher (@Bigdogz1318): If Chase Young was in last year draft who would have went first Nick Bosa or Chase Young. Who do you think Jets top free agent signing will be with joe Douglas running them now?

 

Michael, I love Nick Bosa. But I believe Chase Young would’ve gone first, if it was Chase Young right now, coming off the year he just had. Both guys are incredibly technically sound (Buckeyes DL coach Larry Johnson deserves credit for that), play with great effort, and are good enough to build a defense around. So the key word here is “traits”. Bosa’s are elite. Young’s are generational.

 

When I’ve talked to scouts the last couple months, Young’s compared physically to Jadeveon Clowney, Julius Peppers and Mario Williams. That’s what would separate him from Bosa, in what I think would be a relatively close call.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by HTTRDynasty

[HTTRDynasty]

Chase Young talk starts at 1:33.  They discuss generational talent vs generational player.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, mistertim said:

True, none of us knows for sure. But I think he's right that teams have learned from the RG3 and Goff trades. And the Goff trade wasn't even in the same category as the RG3 trade. They gave up 2 1sts, 2 2nds, and a 3rd. But that was also to move all the way from 15 up to 1 and it was still an entire extra 1st rounder less than what we gave up to move from 6 to 2. So obviously the Rams were crazy about Goff but they still didn't give up as much as we did. 

I agree with everything you are saying.  However.  The NFL is sometimes run by idiots who don't study the past.  This is just fact.  So it's possible that some idiot will do something idiotic.  Because it keeps happening.  

 

Also, I get the feeling Tua and Burrow are going to be evaluated, in the end, like Luck and Griffin, as once in a generation type prospects.  Goff wasn't that, Wentz wasn't that when the Eagles traded up to get him, that Mitch guy wasn't that.  They were really good prospects, but not in the same class.  So it's possible some team loses their mind and does something stupid.

 

Again, it's unlikely.  Most likely it's like what you said, 1. Burrow, 2. CY, 3?

 

I actually am willing to bet right now Tua goes #3 to somebody not Detroit.  And I'm willing to bet Detroit gets at least an additional 1st and probably 2 additional 2nd/3rd round picks to make the trade.  I really wouldn't be shocked if they got 2 additional 1's.   We gave up 2 additional 1's and a 2.  Miami could do that this year and next and still end up picking twice in the first round this year and once next year.  Why?  Because sometimes stupid rules. 

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

That's a lot of picks to move up one spot in the draft just to get Trubisky though. It shows how much teams fall in love with a guy and what they'll do to get him. Here's more food for thought on Tua, in listening to some of the guys talking on the Sirius NFL channel (Charlie Weis, Solomon Wilcox), supposedly Alabama guys are very pro ready when they enter the draft. More so than most other schools. I'm gonna bet Tua is gonna be even more sought after because of this....on top of his great skill set. Tua also checks off the boxes as a good face of the franchise and has played big in big games....he is gonna be highly sought after if he shows he's healthy and teams are gonna make very attractive offers to the Skins to move up and get him. 

 

I think the "Alabama guys are the most pro ready" has tended to refer to their defensive guys much more so than their offensive guys. They've always been known (due at least partially to Saban) to have a super stingy defense with very technically sound and NFL ready guys. Until recently their offense wasn't nearly as much on the radar as their defense. 

 

2 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

OK, that all makes a ton of sense....  fun hypothetical here then... since this is a Chase Young thread.  What if they fall in love with Young... could they overpay us to get him, knowing that we're pretty much locked in on taking him? 

 

Oh I have no doubt the Lions are in love with Young. They had the 2nd least sacks in the NFL last season; their pass rush is atrocious. They'd be drooling to get their hands on CY. I doubt they could pay us to get him unless it was an absolutely ludicrous offer. "You want him? Ok, you have to give up your 1st, 2nd, and 3rd this year and 1st and 2nd next year...oh, and Darius Slay. All to move up one spot. How about it?"

 

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

From michael christopher (@Bigdogz1318): If Chase Young was in last year draft who would have went first Nick Bosa or Chase Young. Who do you think Jets top free agent signing will be with joe Douglas running them now?

 

Michael, I love Nick Bosa. But I believe Chase Young would’ve gone first, if it was Chase Young right now, coming off the year he just had. Both guys are incredibly technically sound (Buckeyes DL coach Larry Johnson deserves credit for that), play with great effort, and are good enough to build a defense around. So the key word here is “traits”. Bosa’s are elite. Young’s are generational.

 

When I’ve talked to scouts the last couple months, Young’s compared physically to Jadeveon Clowney, Julius Peppers and Mario Williams. That’s what would separate him from Bosa, in what I think would be a relatively close call.

 

 

I'd add Myles Garrett in there too. His athleticism was pure freak of nature. Even more so than Clowney. 

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Also, I get the feeling Tua and Burrow are going to be evaluated, in the end, like Luck and Griffin, as once in a generation type prospects.  Goff wasn't that, Wentz wasn't that when the Eagles traded up to get him, that Mitch guy wasn't that.  They were really good prospects, but not in the same class.  So it's possible some team loses their mind and does something stupid.

 

 

I agree with most of what you said (as far as idiots being idiots) but I think this part is a bit of a stretch. Maybe Luck vs Griff lite? Burrow had an elite year and is obviously an excellent prospect, but Luck had basically been a shoo-in for #1 overall since the beginning of his sophomore season...Burrow, as much as I like him, is still basically a 1 year wonder. Luck was seen as a generational talent before he could even declare for the draft.

 

Griffin wasn't really on the map much until his final year, and he and Tua do share some similarities as far as ability to scramble, extend plays, etc. However, while Griffin did have an ACL injury in 2009 he had fully recovered for his final 2 seasons. Tua has an injury history and just recently suffered another devastating one that he's still recovering from. Even if he can do workouts for the combine and/or pro day (certainly not guaranteed), throwing in shorts and a tshirt is still a much different beast than playing in a real game after such an injury. 

 

I've mentioned before that I think some people in here (and out in the mock draft world) may be underestimating how much of a concern teams might have about Tua's injury, as well as his injury history and whether he'll not only be the same guy on the field after this latest one, but even if he is whether he can actually stay healthy in the NFL when he had a hard time doing so in college. 

 

[kingdaddy]

5 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I agree with everything you are saying.  However.  The NFL is sometimes run by idiots who don't study the past.  This is just fact.  So it's possible that some idiot will do something idiotic.  Because it keeps happening.  

 

Also, I get the feeling Tua and Burrow are going to be evaluated, in the end, like Luck and Griffin, as once in a generation type prospects.  Goff wasn't that, Wentz wasn't that when the Eagles traded up to get him, that Mitch guy wasn't that.  They were really good prospects, but not in the same class.  So it's possible some team loses their mind and does something stupid.

 

Again, it's unlikely.  Most likely it's like what you said, 1. Burrow, 2. CY, 3?

 

I actually am willing to bet right now Tua goes #3 to somebody not Detroit.  And I'm willing to bet Detroit gets at least an additional 1st and probably 2 additional 2nd/3rd round picks to make the trade.  I really wouldn't be shocked if they got 2 additional 1's.   We gave up 2 additional 1's and a 2.  Miami could do that this year and next and still end up picking twice in the first round this year and once next year.  Why?  Because sometimes stupid rules. 

To your point, I heard some media guy suggest that giving up an RGlll type of package to get the QB who will solve your QB position for the next 10 years or so is well worth it. If Tua is considered to be that kind of QB teams will pony up crazy assets to get him. Some franchises, including the Redskins, haven't had a generational QB in over 50 years...they are that hard to find. I envy fans of the Pats and Steelers who have had QB's for 15 years and know they'll be contenders just about every year. We haven't had that here and neither have lots of other cities/organizations. A can't miss QB like Manning and others is just too hard to find so you need to pounce when you can. I say this in all sincerity, if Tua nails his pro day, the Redskins are going to have to give some consideration into taking him. It wouldn't be responsible if they didn't. I don't think they will, but I don't know what kind of grades he's gonna get from the scouts compared to what Haskins is right now? 

[Voice_of_Reason]

@mistertim I didn’t say they SHOULD be ranked that way just that I think they will be.  Burrow has what’s possibly the best single QB season of ant QB in college football history.  And Tua went into the year as the consensus #1 overall and looked like a generational talent.  
 

I think a lot of teams talk themselves into higher grades on QBs than they deserve.  It’s how Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith and Cade McNown all went high in the same draft class. 

[evmiii]

Evaluating talent is an art not a science.  Just because you don't agree doesn't make them idiots.  Historically, first round QB's are a 50-50 proposition.  Odds are a little better on non QB's, especially defensive dudes. But all it takes is for one teams talent evaluators to fall in love with a player and crazy things can happen.  Just look at Tua for example, he won't be a few teams boards at all because of his injury history but some team will forget the golden rule (hurt in college, hurt in the pros) and he'll most likely get drafted in the top 5.  I work with an educated, smart guy despite the fact he is a Dolphins fan who is all in on Tua.  I have zero trust in his health and wouldn't take him in the first round.  One of us is wrong; Time will tell.  I think this is what makes the draft so interesting.

 

 

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

To your point, I heard some media guy suggest that giving up an RGlll type of package to get the QB who will solve your QB position for the next 10 years or so is well worth it. If Tua is considered to be that kind of QB teams will pony up crazy assets to get him. Some franchises, including the Redskins, haven't had a generational QB in over 50 years...they are that hard to find. I envy fans of the Pats and Steelers who have had QB's for 15 years and know they'll be contenders just about every year. We haven't had that here and neither have lots of other cities/organizations. A can't miss QB like Manning and others is just too hard to find so you need to pounce when you can. I say this in all sincerity, if Tua nails his pro day, the Redskins are going to have to give some consideration into taking him. It wouldn't be responsible if they didn't. I don't think they will, but I don't know what kind of grades he's gonna get from the scouts compared to what Haskins is right now? 

 

To be honest, pro days are more or less meaningless to me as far as QBs. it's a guy in shorts throwing to hand picked receivers with nobody covering them, no pressure on the QB, and where everyone knows every route and every step in the process. It's basically like going to the theater to watch a well scripted play. Pretty much every single good QB prospect looks like an All Pro on their pro day. I remember scouts absolutely raving about Jamarcus Russell's pro day. 

 

Sure, there are some things you can watch for specifically...for example if a guy mostly took snaps from the gun in college you can see how his footwork looks on straight dropbacks. But even that can be deceiving when it's not game time. RG3's drops from under center looked really nice during his pro day, but come game time they sucked. 

 

With Tua I'd be even more skeptical since he's coming off of such a devastating injury. Being able to throw well in shorts and a tshirt doesn't have anything to do with whether or not he'll ever be the same guy he was once it's a real game situation. Could be fool's gold. But sure, I suppose it's possible some team will get hearts in their eyes if he looks good on his pro day. But there's zero chance I'd take him over Chase Young at 2.

 

If we didn't already have a young 1st round QB who's showed promise I could see the conundrum purely because of positional value....but just barely. On one hand you have a guy in Chase Young who's seen by pretty much everyone who's scouted him as, at the very least, a once in a decade talent at the second most important position on the field and who's had no injury history. On the other hand you'd have a guy who has been seen as potentially on the same level of talent at the only position more important than Edge...but who has consistently struggled with injuries and who is coming off of an extremely bad season ending one that required surgery and from which he's still rehabbing. 

 

I've always loved watching Tua play but I was always a bit wary about labeling him as a "generational" prospect, partly because of his injury history, and partly because he played on such a ridiculously stacked team. The dude had 3 1st round NFL WRs to throw to. I think it's almost a foregone conclusion that Jeudy and Ruggs will be 1st rounders this draft and I think Devonta Smith could easily be a 1st rounder next year. 

[BleedBNG]

 

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by BleedBNG

[Koala]

Its a foregone conclusion that the 2nd pick will be Chase Young.  It SHOULDNT be a foregone conclusion WHO makes that second pick.

 

Just step back and think.  Look at all the gaping holes we have on defense.  I draw your attention to particularly the middle LB positions and the outside CB positions, where you will see black holes where a football player should be residing. 

 

Now look at the front lines, the front 4.  You know, basically, in a normal situation, this should be a pretty darn good line already.  And I dont think adding Chase Young will add much value to that -- nor does Chase Young's addition make the 2 blackholes at MLB and CB less destructive.  

 

But...Chase Yooung can fill those two black holes...if you trade down and get Isiah SImmons and CB in the 2nd round....

 

Or does that make too much sense?

 

 

[mistertim]

37 minutes ago, Koala said:

Its a foregone conclusion that the 2nd pick will be Chase Young.  It SHOULDNT be a foregone conclusion WHO makes that second pick.

 

Just step back and think.  Look at all the gaping holes we have on defense.  I draw your attention to particularly the middle LB positions and the outside CB positions, where you will see black holes where a football player should be residing. 

 

Now look at the front lines, the front 4.  You know, basically, in a normal situation, this should be a pretty darn good line already.  And I dont think adding Chase Young will add much value to that -- nor does Chase Young's addition make the 2 blackholes at MLB and CB less destructive.  

 

But...Chase Yooung can fill those two black holes...if you trade down and get Isiah SImmons and CB in the 2nd round....

 

Or does that make too much sense?

 

 

 

It doesn't make sense when you're talking about a prospect on the level of Chase Young at arguably the second most important position in football. Seriously, the exact same stuff was said about Bosa to the 49ers last year. "Why draft an edge guy at #2 overall when you already have a good DL with other 1st rounders on it? They have other positions to fill. They should trade back and fill those." Yeah, pretty sure they're glad they took Bosa...and Chase Young is generally considered a superior prospect to Bosa in a few ways. 

 

So yes, adding a potentially elite disruptive edge rusher to our DL would likely add a ton of value to that unit. Does it literally fill the holes at MLB and CB? No. Does it make the job of whoever IS there that much easier? Yes. A superior front 4 pass rush can mask many other deficiencies on a defense, particularly in the secondary or coverage in general.

 

A prospect like Chase Young is a guy you just don't pass up on IMO. You can never have too many pass rushers, as the saying goes. If you had a decent WR corps would you pass on Calvin Johnson because you had a couple of holes elsewhere? I'll take a potentially generational type prospect over a couple of other good ones any day. You hardly ever get a chance to draft a guy that good at a position of such importance. When it falls in your lap you take it, say thank you, and fill in the other holes as you go. 

[arftech]

2 hours ago, Koala said:

Its a foregone conclusion that the 2nd pick will be Chase Young.  It SHOULDNT be a foregone conclusion WHO makes that second pick.

 

Just step back and think.  Look at all the gaping holes we have on defense.  I draw your attention to particularly the middle LB positions and the outside CB positions, where you will see black holes where a football player should be residing. 

 

Now look at the front lines, the front 4.  You know, basically, in a normal situation, this should be a pretty darn good line already.  And I dont think adding Chase Young will add much value to that -- nor does Chase Young's addition make the 2 blackholes at MLB and CB less destructive.  

 

But...Chase Yooung can fill those two black holes...if you trade down and get Isiah SImmons and CB in the 2nd round....

 

Or does that make too much sense?

 

 

 

No it doesn't make sense and I'll piggyback off Mistertim's comments.

[Vanguard]

4 hours ago, Koala said:

Its a foregone conclusion that the 2nd pick will be Chase Young.  It SHOULDNT be a foregone conclusion WHO makes that second pick.

 

Just step back and think.  Look at all the gaping holes we have on defense.  I draw your attention to particularly the middle LB positions and the outside CB positions, where you will see black holes where a football player should be residing. 

 

 

But we’re running a 4-3.  And we have Reuben Foster.

[redskinss]

I admit that I've suggested if Miami gives us its 3 first round picks you at the very least have to consider it, but I'm definitely waffling on what I'd prefer they do.

We as skins fans have had so little to get excited about I think we need to go for the one who has the potential to be an elite superstar. 

We need someone we can brag about to other fans, a player that makes other teams fans say " man I wish he played for the (insert team here) instead of the Redskins.

The giants have Barkley, the cowboys have Elliott, etc etc.

We need a guy who strikes fear, someone we can proudly brag about who's a terror and is on our team.

I think I'm all in on the chase young bandwagon if I wasn't already. 

 

Fill the holes through free agency and the draft and go get our all pro defensive end and be done with it.

Edited February 13, 2020 by redskinss

[Skinsinparadise]

This would be big because if it means they want Tua, you could swap the 2nd for the third. 

 

 

 

[redskinss]

Holy crap.

That's a development. 

Still think they might just sit tight to see who falls to them,  but that definitely depends on if they fall in love with someone and or how the other top quarterbacks look leading up to the draft.

 

And of course there's so many good quarterbacks available this year in free agency they could be looking at one of those also, who knows.

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Called it. Now let’s see what unfolds. But whether they trade Stafford or not (cap concerns doing it this year) ... it makes sense for them to draft Tua. 
 

If the Lions get a 2nd for Stafford (or a 1st) the cap is probably worth absorbing for one year if they can get Tua on a rookie deal. 
 

and this is the dream scenario we want. Because now Miami is gonna have to jump Detroit if they want Tua even if it’s smoke. And we can get picks from Detroit to swap 2&3 if they truly want Tua. 
 

should expect some noise from Skins camp of either interest in Tua or pick being for sale.