dicksogj Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, RandyHolt said: You cannot have OL continuity when your highest paid players are injury prone. You cannot have it both ways, is right. Scherff is inconsistent, and sure seems like he is even injury prone. There are too many questions. How is his mobility? What do we even run; what will we run? Will he be a good fit if the next coach runs stretch / outside zone? Can we even afford to pay him and have a viable team? I know the salary cap can be a joke but am now leaning towards not wanting him at anything near his ask. If he is as good as many think he should command a kings ransom in a trade. All the other loser GMs are selling, while Bruce is doubling down on his failures; cementing his spot once again as the leagues worst GM. Martin looked fine to me in his one game. Flowers has held up all year. I don't think we need to pay a guard 14M, but openly admit I don't know the market. Guards have been screwed on the pay scale in what seems like forever and there is a reason for that. Teams do not need to overpay at G to get serviceable play. Fair enough - it sounds like you are more in favor of a rebuild. OK - then simply move on from Scherff, but nobody should then complain about them getting rid of too many players. I honestly can't imagine losing much sleep over losing any of their other current O line players - they are mediocre at best. The real problem I have with this is that you cannot constantly be getting rid of all of your players when they have a stretch of some bad games. You need to have a little patience. I don't think that the cap will be a problem at all once they do a little housecleaning this offseason. I just want to see them develop a solid O line (like they have done for the D line) over the next few years. If this means that they suffer a little next season then so be it, but I don't want them in this shape 2-3 years from now. One can dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 @RandyHolt Yes, we can afford to pay him. Assuming Norman and Reed come off the books, I think we should have 40 or 50+ in cap space after re-signing Scherff. Added bonus - paying him doesn’t affect comp picks. Also, while I have hope Martin can emerge as a starting level guard, Flowers is also a FA. Pretty confident Scherff can play in any system - he’s got the wheels, motor and power. Guards are becoming more important as teams focus on quick passing game to negate outside rushers. We need better play from guys next to Scherff. He might be able to block a lineman, pass him off and then block a linebacker, but if Moses can’t sustain or Roullier can’t wall off the dlineman Scherff passes off... makes it hard to run effectively to the right side. Edit: might be more like 60-70+ when/if Williams comes off the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 There is a Tennessee Titans article out today saying they would give Skins two of their players and a draft pick for Scherff if they do a deal in the next two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 Bwahahahahahahahaha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Figured now would be a good time to up this. By far our best offensive player when healthy. But let's let him walk...Bruce's stellar reputation with personnel could surely use that $1-2 M per season difference to bring us closer to contention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 Two more stupid penalties from Scherff yesterday. Not worth 15 Mill per year I'm sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 He's gonna leave and become a perennial All Pro G with a team that actually knows how to utilize its talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: He's gonna leave and become a perennial All Pro G with a team that actually knows how to utilize its talent. Probably. But if it's not happening here, why pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 11 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: Probably. But if it's not happening here, why pay? It's not happening here because we lose, not because he's not a great player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 11 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: Probably. But if it's not happening here, why pay? We might lose Penn, Flowers and Moses. Do you really want to lose Scherff as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 46 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: We might lose Penn, Flowers and Moses. Do you really want to lose Scherff as well? For whatever reason, Scherff and Moses are penality machines now. If this team had a living breathing GM, they would seriously be looking for 2 new starting tackles in the near future. So, in that case, you need Scherff because another hole there would be awful. Still...... my comment is part of the bigger issue and my indifference these days. Of course, it's not "our money". If they want to pay Scherff top guard money to be average, fine. This isn't rock bottom yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicksogj Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said: We might lose Penn, Flowers and Moses. Do you really want to lose Scherff as well? Amen to that. It is great to say get rid of this guy & that guy, but what is your plan moving forward in terms of replacing them? Outside of Scherff the Redskins only current true assets on offense are an aging RB, a young injury prone RB & a very good rookie WR who at this pt doesn't have anyone to throw him the ball. A lot things COULD happen to improve the team - Haskins improving, Guice staying healthy, drafting offensive players - but those are all TBD. You can't just casually dismiss Scherff without a lot of thought when the rest of the O line & most of the offense is crap. You need to spend a lot of time considering your options & your plan to replace Scherff if you go that route. Also - if they go in this direction fans need to be patient & not get upset if the offense struggles while in full on rebuild mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicksogj Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: For whatever reason, Scherff and Moses are penality machines now. If this team had a living breathing GM, they would seriously be looking for 2 new starting tackles in the near future. So, in that case, you need Scherff because another hole there would be awful. Still...... my comment is part of the bigger issue and my indifference these days. Of course, it's not "our money". If they want to pay Scherff top guard money to be average, fine. This isn't rock bottom yet. I am OK if they move on from Scherff if they have a good plan to replace him & improve the O line. However I KNOW that will not be the case as long as Allen is in charge. His priority will be to make moves that get headlines & place any blame for recent failures on others. Both he & Snyder truly do not care about winning or building long term success. If they did then 1 or 2 things would have happened by now - 1. Snyder would have fired Allen just like he did with Gruden (ditto for Munusky) or 2. Allen would have traded Williams & others by now & not worried simply about saving face. He would have also likely have faced the media & fans at this time to own up to his share of the blame & ensure them that there is a plan to correct this mess (even if he had to lie). Claiming that the current culture is good is the complete opposite. So we can propose anything that we want - Snyder/Allen don't think in this manner so it doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, dicksogj said: Amen to that. It is great to say get rid of this guy & that guy, but what is your plan moving forward in terms of replacing them? Outside of Scherff the Redskins only current true assets on offense are an aging RB, a young injury prone RB & a very good rookie WR who at this pt doesn't have anyone to throw him the ball. A lot things COULD happen to improve the team - Haskins improving, Guice staying healthy, drafting offensive players - but those are all TBD. You can't just casually dismiss Scherff without a lot of thought when the rest of the O line & most of the offense is crap. You need to spend a lot of time considering your options & your plan to plan to replace Scherff if you go that route. Also - if they go in this direction fans need to be patient & not get upset if the offense struggles while in full on rebuild mode. Getting rid of a guy is different than not overpaying for a guy who has underperformed this year. That's all. Just now, dicksogj said: I am OK if they move on from Scherff if they have a good plan to replace him & improve the O line. However I KNOW that will not be the case as long as Allen is in charge. His priority will be to make moves that get headlines & place any blame for recent failures on others. Both he & Snyder truly do not care about winning or building long term success. If they did then 1 or 2 things would have happened by now - 1. Snyder would have fired Allen just like he did with Gruden (ditto for Munusky) or 2. Allen would have traded Williams & others by now & not worried simply about saving face. He would have also likely have faced the media & fans at this time to own up to his share of the blame & ensure them that there is a plan to correct this mess (even if he had to lie). Claiming that the current culture is good is the complete opposite. So we can propose anything that we want - Snyder/Allen don't think in this manner so it doesn't really matter. We both know there is no good plan for anything around here. They won't even acknowledge what's wrong. The OL just like the DBs or the WRs or any position is going to need a massive culture change. That doesn't happen with adding a player or two. That comes from the top down and takes YEARS. So, now your question is. Even if today Snyder woke up and realized he needs to clean house. Then goes on to hire all the right people. Doesn't everything right. It still won't really show for a few seasons because you have to turn over the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicksogj Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: Getting rid of a guy is different than not overpaying for a guy who has underperformed this year. That's all. We both know there is no good plan for anything around here. They won't even acknowledge what's wrong. The OL just like the DBs or the WRs or any position is going to need a massive culture change. That doesn't happen with adding a player or two. That comes from the top down and takes YEARS. So, now your question is. Even if today Snyder woke up and realized he needs to clean house. Then goes on to hire all the right people. Doesn't everything right. It still won't really show for a few seasons because you have to turn over the roster. Yep & I am good with a rebuild (although I will probably complain about it somewhat while it is occurring). That is why I am good with moves such as starting Haskins since it is a good move long term - either he succeeds & gets valuable experience or he fails & you know that you have to select another QB sometime down the road. Playing Keenum or McCoy serves no purpose at this time IMO. Ditto even for players like Kerrigan or even AP. I love watching both of them play but would not have an issue if they are traded - long term it might benefit both them & the team. So again yes - I can wait YEARS for this to happen if someone other then Allen is in charge & if there are at least signs of improvement. Use the Dolphins as a comparison. Everyone knew that they would be horrible this season, but at least they have some fight & have tons of high picks for the next two years. Their long term success looks pretty good at this time (no guarantee I realize). We can't say the same about the Skins until - as you stated - the culture changes. We will see - not holding my breath but maybe Snyder will surprise us at some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Its because of me. The bomb to terrymthegem called back because of scherff..all me... I know I will get laughed at, certainly booed respectfully so. I believe in carma and superstitions. Like big time. My kids were with me doing some clean up on a property when my son thought he would try to take out his sister at the knees while rough housing..he wouldn't stop so I reached over and got his attention with a tap of the broom I was using over his head and it end up making a cut..he bled, I felt awful..we talked with the counselor. I still fill like a pos. Anyway..this was the season scherff went out for the year. I was wearing his jersey during the incident. I believe it was the same game alex had his gruesome injury...ever scince the incident any time I wear his jersey something happens..he gets multiple penalties..the bomb called back yesterday..I am to blame for scherff's down fall 😔😪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicksogj Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 23 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said: Its because of me. The bomb to terrymthegem called back because of scherff..all me... I know I will get laughed at, certainly booed respectfully so. I believe in carma and superstitions. Like big time. My kids were with me doing some clean up on a property when my son thought he would try to take out his sister at the knees while rough housing..he wouldn't stop so I reached over and got his attention with a tap of the broom I was using over his head and it end up making a cut..he bled, I felt awful..we talked with the counselor. I still fill like a pos. Anyway..this was the season scherff went out for the year. I was wearing his jersey during the incident. I believe it was the same game alex had his gruesome injury...ever scince the incident any time I wear his jersey something happens..he gets multiple penalties..the bomb called back yesterday..I am to blame for scherff's down fall 😔😪 Would you please, please wear a "I love Bruce Allen" shirt during the remainder of the season..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkman56 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Its not unpredictable that much of this teams mindset is to get the season over. You may assume they are all " Professionals " and will put their best efforts in game after game. But lets face it, most of them stopped caring 4-5 games ago. Between the TW saga, other ex players coming out of the woodwork to trash ownership/management, the weakest QB line up in the league, the rookie WR being by FAR the best wr on the team, a defensive coaching staff that is clueless, etc. The human element was bound to take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said: Its because of me. The bomb to terrymthegem called back because of scherff..all me... I know I will get laughed at, certainly booed respectfully so. I believe in carma and superstitions. Like big time. My kids were with me doing some clean up on a property when my son thought he would try to take out his sister at the knees while rough housing..he wouldn't stop so I reached over and got his attention with a tap of the broom I was using over his head and it end up making a cut..he bled, I felt awful..we talked with the counselor. I still fill like a pos. Anyway..this was the season scherff went out for the year. I was wearing his jersey during the incident. I believe it was the same game alex had his gruesome injury...ever scince the incident any time I wear his jersey something happens..he gets multiple penalties..the bomb called back yesterday..I am to blame for scherff's down fall 😔😪 This post is useless without a pic alongside Danny boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I guess I am in the minority here thinking that Scherff is still a player you want to keep around for the hypothetical "rebuild" he is still pretty young and since Trent is as good as gone, he is now the best O-lineman on the team. His drop in play has pretty much correlated with injuries and the overall play of the team nosediving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Nothing is wrong with Scherff. This is who he is. Just another player vastly overrated by this fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 2 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: For whatever reason, Scherff and Moses are penality machines now. If this team had a living breathing GM, they would seriously be looking for 2 new starting tackles in the near future. So, in that case, you need Scherff because another hole there would be awful. Still...... my comment is part of the bigger issue and my indifference these days. Of course, it's not "our money". If they want to pay Scherff top guard money to be average, fine. This isn't rock bottom yet. If they played in a vacuum, I'd never pay Scherff. But keep our interior together is huge. Hes an incredible player and I've gotta think the penalties are due to complacency being on a bad team, with so much personnel changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicksogj Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 51 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: Nothing is wrong with Scherff. This is who he is. Just another player vastly overrated by this fan base. I see this type of reply on all types of forums. It appears to imply that the Redskins have an uneducated fanbase & that the team's issues are due in large part to the takes of the fanbase. LOL - nothing could be further from the truth. Snyder/Allen don't care what the fans think so our opinions are worthless. The best that they will do is make some splashy offseason moves to grab headlines. The Redskins fanbase is no different than for any other team. Some over-the-top fans, some negative fans, some casual fans, etc. The difference is that the organization basically neglects & abuses the fans. After awhile the fans are drawn away from the team - this would be true of any fanbase. As for Scherff - not sure where you are getting your info. Most of the replies here seem to indicate that lots of fans don't overvalue him. They don't really have an issue with moving on from him or at the least don't want to overpay him. The only real issue appears to be that if they get rid of him they are basically left with hardly any true NFL starters on the O line. When healthy at least Scherff contributes & can make very good plays at times. He has been to the Pro Bowl so that would tell me that at least he is not the worst OG in the NFL. Somebody else in the NFL thinks he is at least decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 hour ago, dicksogj said: Would you please, please wear a "I love Bruce Allen" shirt during the remainder of the season..... God no **** huh....make me one up and send it to me...I'll wear it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 45 minutes ago, dicksogj said: It appears to imply that the Redskins have an uneducated fanbase & that the team's issues are due in large part to the takes of the fanbase. The team's issues have nothing to do with the fan base. The fan base is not "uneducated". They over value this team and many of its players, however. The whole "6-3" argument from last year is the most recent example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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