What the hell is Wrong with Scherff?

[ntotoro]

12 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Depends on the contract they offer me knowing they can control my rights for at least another year and factoring in the potential for injury.

The odds of this FO putting that in a contract being... ?

[MartinC]

6 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

The odds of this FO putting that in a contract being... ?

 

I'm done with this FO. Heaven only knows what they are thinking/doing.

[Est.1974]

I think we'll be tagging him and then the new CBA will dictate his future contract perimeters moving forward, here or elsewhere.

[megared]

The FO is exactly a year behind on where they need to be on this.  Makes me believe that they really didn't have very much intention of keeping him in the first place.  

 

If they really were interested in locking him up long term, the conversations should've started in earnest after the 2017 season.  Had they come to an agreement, this fifth year cap hit never happens, and prorating the signing bonus over the life of the contract lowers the cap liability, at least for the beginning of the contract.  

 

The reason Martin, Zeitler, Norwell, Osemele are at the top of the market for guards, is because their teams allowed them to go into the final year/team option of their contracts.  Armed with that information, Scherff and his reps know that he's likely to set the market if he hits free agency.  So at this point, it isn't even worth quibbling with the FO anymore.  

 

I don't think the upcoming CBA uncertainty impacts this very much.  Teams are estimated to see an extra ~$5 M added to their cap once it's agreed upon...I'm not seeing that as a substantial enough difference to delay a $30 M + payout by a year.  

[carex]

8 minutes ago, megared said:

The FO is exactly a year behind on where they need to be on this.  Makes me believe that they really didn't have very much intention of keeping him in the first place.  

 

If they really were interested in locking him up long term, the conversations should've started in earnest after the 2017 season.  Had they come to an agreement, this fifth year cap hit never happens, and prorating the signing bonus over the life of the contract lowers the cap liability, at least for the beginning of the contract.  

 

The reason Martin, Zeitler, Norwell, Osemele are at the top of the market for guards, is because their teams allowed them to go into the final year/team option of their contracts.  Armed with that information, Scherff and his reps know that he's likely to set the market if he hits free agency.  So at this point, it isn't even worth quibbling with the FO anymore.  

 

I don't think the upcoming CBA uncertainty impacts this very much.  Teams are estimated to see an extra ~$5 M added to their cap once it's agreed upon...I'm not seeing that as a substantial enough difference to delay a $30 M + payout by a year.  

 

considering each year of his contract could only increase 30% after next year he'll probably just go for a one year deal anyway, if there's no new CBA before free agency

[megared]

7 minutes ago, carex said:

considering each year of his contract could only increase 30% after next year he'll probably just go for a one year deal anyway, if there's no new CBA before free agency

 

That's only really a limitation for extensions to rookie contracts, and it only applies to the base salary & escalators.   

 

I'd imagine with all of the cap voodoo that's been done in the past, this should be a walk in the park for our FO.  

[clskinsfan]

10 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He has been.  OP linked a team stat ranking to argue against him.  His PFF grade is actually good and better than it was for last season and not far off his best years.  People bring up that Bears game as a knock against him as if he didn't dominate Akiem Hicks that night.  The truth is his detractors aren't really paying attention to him.  He's one of the only two players on our offense who has been good and we can afford to keep him and we can't afford to let homegrown talent walk.

I posted stats that show blocking and penalty stats for ALL sections of the OL. The stats are accurate. And I dont care what grade PFF gives him. They are a joke. Scherff has not played the same since his injury. That is obvious. And as I said above I am not in favor of letting him walk. But I am also not in favor of making him the highest paid guard in football. So far this year he hasnt earned it.

[veteranskinsfan]

He did an interview with local media today saying he wants to be a Redskin for life.  I think he is taking a page out of Kirk Cousin's playbook.  Saying all the right things

and then will sign with another team like Kirk did.   He knows Williams is gone after this year.  He knows we do not have a quarterback.  He knows we do not have a

Head Coach yet.  If Allen does not pay him then his agent will go shopping with 31 other teams.  He has not had a good year for us but he does play hurt.  If we lose him

then I predict a lot of fans will go ballistic.  This franchise just keeps sinking deeper into mud and are clueless how to make things better.

[megared]

So you're okay letting him walk over a (relatively) trivial amount of money, and making it another position of need (amongst many others)?  

 

How does inflation play into your calculus when the salary cap is rising every year? 

 

$13.999 M AAV is okay, but $14.001 M AAV is too much?

 

When I look at where our roster is currently wasting money, I think it'd be awfully hypocritical to let a homegrown guy walk over a hard line you didn't use when pursuing free agents.  

 

[volsmet]

6 minutes ago, megared said:

So you're okay letting him walk over a (relatively) trivial amount of money, and making it another position of need (amongst many others)?  

 

How does inflation play into your calculus when the salary cap is rising every year? 

 

$13.999 M AAV is okay, but $14.001 M AAV is too much?

 

When I look at where our roster is currently wasting money, I think it'd be awfully hypocritical to let a homegrown guy walk over a hard line you didn't use when pursuing free agents.  

 

I’d be good with trading him for a first, but letting him walk gets tricky. The issue with these hypotheticals is, of course, wedding our own beliefs with what’s inevitably going to happen. Our lousy GM provides us a narrow path for semi-realistic, positive, hypotheticals.

 

[dicksogj]

12 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

He did an interview with local media today saying he wants to be a Redskin for life.  I think he is taking a page out of Kirk Cousin's playbook.  Saying all the right things

and then will sign with another team like Kirk did.   He knows Williams is gone after this year.  He knows we do not have a quarterback.  He knows we do not have a

Head Coach yet.  If Allen does not pay him then his agent will go shopping with 31 other teams.  He has not had a good year for us but he does play hurt.  If we lose him

then I predict a lot of fans will go ballistic.  This franchise just keeps sinking deeper into mud and are clueless how to make things better.

 

Cousins left after the team traded for Smith so who really knows if he would have stayed with the Skins especially if he was offered good money.  He may still have bolted, but nobody can prove that.  Still a lot TBD for Scherff especially since a lot can change in terms of coaching, other moves, etc.

 

 

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, volsmet said:

I’d be good with trading him for a first, but letting him walk gets tricky. The issue with these hypotheticals is, of course, wedding our own beliefs with what’s inevitably going to happen. Our lousy GM provides us a narrow path for semi-realistic, positive, hypotheticals.

 

Yep, when the best comp pick you can get for him will be a 3rd rounder or less.

[RandyHolt]

Scherff?

 

He doesn't want to be here. I almost question any player who does want to be here, short of someone winding down their career or not wanting to move their family.  Or, grossly overpaid.

 

The problem is bigger than Brandon.

 

The problem with our OL is clearly Callahan. At least he is good at losing and towing the company line.

 

Tampa > Everything

 

 

 

[carex]

you all are projecting

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, megared said:

So you're okay letting him walk over a (relatively) trivial amount of money, and making it another position of need (amongst many others)?  

 

How does inflation play into your calculus when the salary cap is rising every year? 

 

For whatever reason, perhaps PTSD from the Vinny years, there is a segment of Skins fans obsessed with how much our players make and that they have to be the best at their position in the entire league to be deserving of a top contract.  In some respects, I get it, but overall I don’t.  Particularly when I’ll see the same folks amped to overpay for another team’s player in free agency.  A lot of it has to do with Bruce’s inability to forecast and make the right moves at the right time.  So we end up in situations just like this where the franchise tag is on the table.  While Bruce is more fiscally conservative than Vinny, he has absolutely no long term vision.  I’m sure reporting to Dan lends to that vision as well.

[Wildbunny]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

I'm done with this FO. Hell only knows what they are thinking/doing.

Fixed it mate!

[Warhead36]

Trade him.

 

We spent a 5th overall pick on an above average RG who never dominates.

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Trade him.

 

We spent a 5th overall pick on an above average RG who never dominates.

 

I don't think Bruce has realized Brandon has one foot out the door. If he had any stones he would trade him.  He clearly hasn't realized that he is not worth all the money Bruce is throwing at him.  Bruce must feel boxed in on BS, so his only defense is to pretend there is no dumpster fire happening.  We're close.  Yeah, close to imploding as an org.  I wonder who is going to protect Haskins next year.

 

Which will be the next OL to bail after Brandon?  Probably Penn and Moses. It's devastating for a clown organization to lose its top 2 lineman.  Bruce can proclaim victory with the cap space i suppose, but he isn't smart enough to spend it wisely. Collins may be the last high ticket free agent to sign here for the foreseeable future. Prepare for gross overpayments on marginal OL this offseason.

 

None of it matters with stoneage Callahan prepping his OL to face a 1970's static front 4.  Any curve ball from an aggressive modern D has his OL overwhelmed.  Consistently, for years. We have all seen it, including stunts working almost every time they are employed. Penalties prevail from being unprepared, nervous presnap, and overwhelmed.  And probably injuries as well.

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Trade him.

 

We spent a 5th overall pick on an above average RG who never dominates.

Again I don’t know which film you are watching here. Sure there are snaps he would like back - but there are lots of snaps I can show you he IS dominating. Before he was injured last season he was playing at an All Pro level.  He’s part of the solution here not part of the problem.

 

That said if someone offers us two firsts for him by all means trade him. Assuming that’s not going to happen though get him signed to an extension.

[megared]

52 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I don't think Bruce has realized Brandon has one foot out the door. If he had any stones he would trade him.  He clearly hasn't realized that he is not worth all the money Bruce is throwing at him.

 

Oh, he knows Scherff is gone. 

 

You don't leak negotiations to the press, unless you're pretty much resolved to something not getting done, and want to save face.  

 

Quote

"From what I understand about Brandon Scherff is that the Redskins have had some contact with him, some negotiations on a potential big-time long-term extension," Rapoport said. "But they really have not gotten very much off the ground despite the Redskins offering him a contract worth more than $13 million per year, which would put him about at the top of the guard market. Those conversations are going to continue but don't be surprised if Brandon Scherff goes toward free agency and becomes the highest-paid guard in the NFL going forward next offseason."

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001058396/article/redskins-offering-scherff-13m-per-year-extension?campaign=Twitter_atn

 

Notice how there's no talks of guaranteed money, or length?  It's a team move.  (It wouldn't benefit Scherff's reps to leak contract negotiations)

 

[desertbeagle85]

[NYCSKINS83]

If you're going to pay him 13+ mil, move him to RT and cut Moses

[Going Commando]

14 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

I posted stats that show blocking and penalty stats for ALL sections of the OL. The stats are accurate. And I dont care what grade PFF gives him. They are a joke. Scherff has not played the same since his injury. That is obvious. And as I said above I am not in favor of letting him walk. But I am also not in favor of making him the highest paid guard in football. So far this year he hasnt earned it.

 

You know what PFF shows?  Stats, penalties, and grades localized to Scherff himself, instead of lumping him in with Roullier, Martin, Bergstrom, and Flowers plus any defenders coming through A and B gaps that backs or QBs are supposed to deal with.  You based your argument in the OP on a flawed premise--that you could demonstrate Scherff has been playing poorly by citing a website presenting team stat rankings.  No one bothered to click the link and see that.  it led to a bad thread full of ****posting and superficial discussion.  It is what it is, but I know you can do better.

[dicksogj]

12 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

I don't think Bruce has realized Brandon has one foot out the door. If he had any stones he would trade him.  He clearly hasn't realized that he is not worth all the money Bruce is throwing at him.  Bruce must feel boxed in on BS, so his only defense is to pretend there is no dumpster fire happening.  We're close.  Yeah, close to imploding as an org.  I wonder who is going to protect Haskins next year.

 

Which will be the next OL to bail after Brandon?  Probably Penn and Moses. It's devastating for a clown organization to lose its top 2 lineman.  Bruce can proclaim victory with the cap space i suppose, but he isn't smart enough to spend it wisely. Collins may be the last high ticket free agent to sign here for the foreseeable future. Prepare for gross overpayments on marginal OL this offseason.

 

None of it matters with stoneage Callahan prepping his OL to face a 1970's static front 4.  Any curve ball from an aggressive modern D has his OL overwhelmed.  Consistently, for years. We have all seen it, including stunts working almost every time they are employed. Penalties prevail from being unprepared, nervous presnap, and overwhelmed.  And probably injuries as well.

 

You start out by stating that Scherff is not that good & that Allen should trade him. Then you state that its devastating if the team loses more O lineman (to include Scherff).  So do you want to keep him or get rid of him?  You can't have it both ways.

 

A good O line is more that simply getting the 5 best guys in the lineup.  You have to have some sort of continuity.  That has already been screwed up with the Williams situation (due to Williams & the FO).  I would hate to see them start all over again by losing their only other true talent on the line.  Now if Scherff plays poorly for the remainder of the season even when it is obvious he is not injured you may have a pt, but that is very premature at this time.

 

I would not worry about losing Penn or Moses - highly unlikely that they are going to find a better setup for them elsewhere & in Penn's case he is getting up there.  Again - folks have to decide what they want - a team that is ready to compete very soon or a complete rebuild.   If the latter then I would not really worry about continuity on the line - start trading vets (ala Dolphins) & rebuild the O line & other areas in hopes of have a solid, consistent group in a few years.  Of course these boneheads won't do either - they will waffle & try to do both - sigh.

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, dicksogj said:

 

You start out by stating that Scherff is not that good & that Allen should trade him. Then you state that its devastating if the team loses more O lineman (to include Scherff).  So do you want to keep him or get rid of him?  You can't have it both ways. 

 

A good O line is more that simply getting the 5 best guys in the lineup.  You have to have some sort of continuity. 

You cannot have OL continuity when your highest paid players are injury prone. You cannot have it both ways, is right.

 

Scherff is inconsistent, and sure seems like he is even injury prone.  There are too many questions.  How is his mobility? What do we even run; what will we run? Will he be a good fit if the next coach runs stretch / outside zone?  Can we even afford to pay him and have a viable team?

 

I know the salary cap can be a joke but am now leaning towards not wanting him at anything near his ask. If he is as good as many think he should command a kings ransom in a trade.  All the other loser GMs are selling, while Bruce is doubling down on his failures; cementing his spot once again as the leagues worst GM.

 

Martin looked fine to me in his one game. Flowers has held up all year. I don't think we need to pay a guard 14M, but openly admit I don't know the market. Guards have been screwed on the pay scale in what seems like forever and there is a reason for that. Teams do not need to overpay at G to get serviceable play.