Koolblue13 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Imagine if we could trade him for a draft pick. That'd be amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, KDawg said: I think we’re getting somewhere now with this discussion. I now understand your issue as it pertains to the benching... But let’s operate in a hypothetical here: If the rest of the team was souring on Haskins locker room antics, and the locker room was frustrated with Haskins play AND overall way of carrying himself, would benching him be okay? I understand you believe a lot of this is hearsay, so I’m not asking you this as if it absolutely happened (I think it did, but that is conjecture). If he was dividing the locker room, is benching him okay? And how would you feel about Rivera if he kept him as starter and he lost the rest of the locker room and things got much worse? I believe the players care about their paychecks and winning. Focusing on the long-term goal by seeing what you have in Haskins would obviously rub a lot of players the wrong way. But that's why you need a GM, to focus on what's best for the franchise long-term, even if the rest of your players aren't happy. As to your hypothetical, I do not believe benching him would be okay in order to please the discontents, because I believe most of these players won't even be here long-term. And that's all I care about, since I'm 100% sure we won't be winning the Super Bowl this year: the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Haskins has unfollowed Ron, Kyle Allen, Redkins Today, and the Washington Football Team. Good to know he is handling this with the maturity he lacks and is not acting like a diva. Seriously get this baby out of here now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Not to mention, our best players are the ones most likely to be completely in Haskins corner, his OSU teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scstand Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, httr2020dynasty said: Using one qb and ignoring all the other qbs that failed is just being blindly loyal and not being realistic. Ron is being realistic that Haskins isn't ready for the NFL game. Like I said, Allen might have been inaccruate last year but he made plays downfield and with his legs. Something Haskins hasn't shown the ability to do. Totally agree. Dwayne can't escape pressure, seems to have a nack for rolling back into it several times a game. He never ever scrambles to the right, even when he has a clear lane, he always re-circles and tries to go left....most every-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoCommiesGo Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 The takes in this thread are interesting. Did he get treated unfairly, maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. No one here knows what happened behind closed doors it’s all guess work. At the end of the day he is a highly compensated employee of the WFT and they have the right to do what they feel is in the best interest of their organization. Like any employee sometimes you feel like you’ve gotten the shaft. What defines people professional and personally is how they move forward in this type of situation. Do you examine your circumstances, adjust and move forward to be a better version or do you collapse and blame others. One way leads to long term success the other not so much. I’m interested to see how he moves forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profusion Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said: I believe the players care about their paychecks and winning. Focusing on the long-term goal by seeing what you have in Haskins would obviously rub a lot of players the wrong way. But that's why you need a GM, to focus on what's best for the franchise long-term, even if the rest of your players aren't happy. If your GM, and not the HC, is deciding who plays and who sits, then your team has a much bigger problem than a floundering young QB. Rivera is building a culture of accountability, and not even the hotshot first round QB is above that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: I believe the players care about their paychecks and winning. Focusing on the long-term goal by seeing what you have in Haskins would obviously rub a lot of players the wrong way. But that's why you need a GM, to focus on what's best for the franchise long-term, even if the rest of your players aren't happy. As to your hypothetical, I do not believe benching him would be okay in order to please the discontents, because I believe most of these players won't even be here long-term. And that's all I care about, since I'm 100% sure we won't be winning the Super Bowl this year: the long term. This is where you and a lot of us disconnect. A lot of us think that the long term answer is to move on because he hasn’t shown much improvement over his career and the situation that he was put in upon drafting him was such a negative that the damage to him and the franchise has been done. Most of us are not a fan of his antics or his play and don’t believe he’s going to develop. There are some that think he has that potential here, of course. And that part I’m not going to say I can’t understand... because he has an arm, makes a few plays (sparse, but there). I see those once in a game glimpses, too, and wonder what if. But I don’t put Haskins development over the team. And not setting a tone when there is a negative energy at your quarterback position is self sabotage, in MY opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said: Using one qb and ignoring all the other qbs that failed is just being blindly loyal and not being realistic. Ron is being realistic that Haskins isn't ready for the NFL game. Like I said, Allen might have been inaccruate last year but he made plays downfield and with his legs. Something Haskins hasn't shown the ability to do. I can post a long list of QBs who have started out poorly and turned into franchise QBs. But that would be a waste of time, because you would find a way to discredit each comparison. Just like I could discredit each comparison you'd make to a QB who failed. Each QB is different. No comparison is perfect. A lot of people around here don't seem to realize that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: But that's why you need a GM, to focus on what's best for the franchise long-term, even if the rest of your players aren't happy. There is no successful organization in the NFL where the GM sets the game day rosters. They accumulate the players and the coach sets the lineups, the only time you will have that happen is if the coach is also the GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, profusion said: If your GM, and not the HC, is deciding who plays and who sits, then your team has a much bigger problem than a floundering young QB. Rivera is building a culture of accountability, and not even the hotshot first round QB is above that. The GM is there to balance and counteract the HC's predictable impulse to "win now" at the cost of damaging the franchise long term. He's not deciding who plays and who sits unilaterally, but he is there to be a counterweight influence on the coach's decision-making. 1 minute ago, MisterPinstripe said: There is no successful organization in the NFL where the GM sets the game day rosters. They accumulate the players and the coach sets the lineups, the only time you will have that happen is if the coach is also the GM. See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, KDawg said: If he was dividing the locker room, is benching him okay? And how would you feel about Rivera if he kept him as starter and he lost the rest of the locker room and things got much worse? Rivera should be able to handle a lockerroom. Fact of the matter is, he had to bear & grin a lot of Cam's antics, because he had a strong FO structure in place that would've been a check & balance on impulsive moves (Gettleman). Changing the direction and complexity of the season, 4 games in, at a pin drop seems to be exactly that. Isn't the coach's job to keep his team focused and disciplined? If he wanted a self regulating lockerroom, he could've added more vets, and NOT handed Haskins the starting job. But, in a nod to conjecture, we don't know what was said between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: I can post a long list of QBs who have started out poorly and turned into franchise QBs. But that would be a waste of time, because you would find a way to discredit each comparison. Just like I could discredit each comparison you'd make to a QB who failed. Each QB is different. No comparison is perfect. A lot of people around here don't seem to realize that fact. I can post a longer list of qbs that started out poorly and remained terrible. Each qb you post I'm sure showed more ability to understand an NFL playbook than Haskins has. Haskins problems aren't just inaccuracy or footwork, they question his ability to even understand or perform at an nfl level. He's clearly not ready and not playing like other qbs did their second year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: The GM is there to balance and counteract the HC's predictable impulse to "win now" at the cost of damaging the franchise long term. He's not deciding who plays and who sits unilaterally, but he is there to be a counterweight influence on the coach's decision-making. See above. But it seems like you are expecting that if we had a GM, since Ron wants to sit Haskins, he would tell Ron no you need to play him for the good of the franchise. In this situation he would be deciding who plays. I cant see any other way to view what you said, but of course feel free to expound on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, KDawg said: This is where you and a lot of us disconnect. A lot of us think that the long term answer is to move on because he hasn’t shown much improvement over his career and the situation that he was put in upon drafting him was such a negative that the damage to him and the franchise has been done. This is the primary reason for our disconnect. I just don't know how anyone can expect a player on his 3rd HC, in his 3rd system (really 4th, since KOC's offense was so different from Callahan's) to show significant improvement in 4 starts. What had most of us optimistic this offseason was that Haskins showed improvement last year once he got comfortable in KOC's system. It's odd that we're not willing to give him the same chance this year in Scott's system. If you all want to say you agree with the decision because of the leaks coming out, then fine, that's your prerogative. But to say he's had enough time to prove what he is as a player, given the circumstances, is just flat out wrong IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, megared said: Rivera should be able to handle a lockerroom. Fact of the matter is, he had to bear & grin a lot of Cam's antics, because he had a strong FO structure in place that would've been a check & balance on impulsive moves (Gettleman). Changing the direction and complexity of the season, 4 games in, at a pin drop seems to be exactly that. Isn't the coach's job to keep his team focused and disciplined? If he wanted a self regulating lockerroom, he could've added more vets, and NOT handed Haskins the starting job. But, in a nod to conjecture, we don't know what was said between them. When you take over a job as the new HC of a bad franchise, you get a little rope. But not a lot. The players, if they didn’t believe Rivera was working towards their best interest would very likely turn. Or, at the least, sour. Once that happens, the rot spreads. And soon your entire locker room is a cesspool. If the Team is winning, it’s easier to weather that storm. But when they aren’t it’s not. Rivera and Cam have a good relationship. Even though Cam is eccentric and not what Rivera expects. He suspended him for attire once, but I think Rivera learned a little something from that episode as well. Its not easy to control the locker room of any team. I ask this, not flippantly, but curiously: Have you ever been in a locker room as a coach our authority figure? They are almost always manageable, but sometimes decisions have to be made. I believe it was likely bad enough to illicit the change and that’s why it occurred. I also believe his play absolutely played a role. But I do appreciate good discourse on the subject, so... thanks for the response and your perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profusion Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, megared said: Rivera should be able to handle a lockerroom. Fact of the matter is, he had to bear & grin a lot of Cam's antics, because he had a strong FO structure in place that would've been a check & balance on impulsive moves (Gettleman). Changing the direction and complexity of the season, 4 games in, at a pin drop seems to be exactly that. Beneath the goofy antics, Cam put in the hard work to go from being a "dual threat" to being an excellent NFL QB. I don't think Ron cares about what happens on Twitter or the interview room unless it becomes a distraction. He cares about what happens on the practice field and in the film room. Cam was excellent by all accounts in that way, as shown by how quickly he's thrived with Bill Belichick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 28 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: All the more reason to give Haskins more time, as pocket QBs usually take much longer to develop, but they tend to have a much longer career once they do fully develop. This isn't 1981 or any time before the Free Agency era. First round QB's (even if they should have never been taken there) don't get 2-3 years to "develop." Especially when they can't correct the fundamental mistakes they had when entering the league. You move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said: This is the primary reason for our disconnect. I just don't know how anyone can expect a player on his 3rd HC, in his 3rd system (really 4th, since KOC's offense was so different from Callahan's) to show significant improvement in 4 starts. What had most of us optimistic this offseason was that Haskins showed improvement last year once he got comfortable in KOC's system. It's odd that we're not willing to give him the same chance this year in Scott's system. If you all want to say you agree with the decision because of the leaks coming out, then fine, that's your prerogative. But to say he's had enough time to prove what he is as a player, given the circumstances, is just flat out wrong IMO. You expect to see something. Like I’ve said, I thought he could get more time, but I haven’t seen almost any improvement from him from a fan perspective and not in the locker room. If the info coming out is true, that leads me to further believe he isn’t and will never be the answer in DC. But as far as ON-FIELD development, I don’t think he has that in him. Not for this franchise. He and the franchise have burned bridges to ashes on one another. The guy needs a shot somewhere else... where maybe they find a way to get that improvement out of him. There are small glimpses and there is a chance he can make it if he can make those glimpses consistent. I’m not one saying he can’t and never will play in this league. But I don’t think he can develop here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, MisterPinstripe said: But it seems like you are expecting that if we had a GM, since Ron wants to sit Haskins, he would tell Ron no you need to play him for the good of the franchise. In this situation he would be deciding who plays. I cant see any other way to view what you said, but of course feel free to expound on that. Ron would have final authority on the game-day rosters, but with a GM who was above Ron, 1) he would have to think twice about the decision to sacrifice the long-term interests of the franchise for short-term glory, because his head would be on the chopping block and 2) he would have someone who was able to see the forest for the trees and that might influence him to stick with Haskins longer, rather than just having a bunch of players in his ear who only care about what happens this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: I can post a long list of QBs who have started out poorly and turned into franchise QBs How many that were first rounders and turned into franchise quarterbacks with their second team? As I said earlier the coaches almost always know what they have and if they decide to move on from haskins (which they obviously haven't yet) I'd be very surprised if he flourished elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, redskinss said: How many that were first rounders and turned into franchise quarterbacks with their second team? Off the top of my head? Drew Brees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: Ron would have final authority on the game-day rosters, but with a GM who was above Ron, 1) he would have to think twice about the decision to sacrifice the long-term interests of the franchise for short-term glory, because his head would be on the chopping block and 2) he would have someone who was able to see the forest for the trees and that might influence him to stick with Haskins longer, rather than just having a bunch of players in his ear who only care about what happens this season. There it is again and no one can answer it. How is moving on from Haskins akin to sacrificing the future? Especially if they don't think he can get right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, ntotoro said: There it is again and no one can answer it. How is moving on from Haskins akin to sacrificing the future? Especially if they don't think he can get right. This is a key point. If they don’t think they can get him right, then wouldn’t it be sacrificing the future to fit a square peg in a round hole? And better for all parties to cut bait and move forward? Make no mistake, Haskins has been wronged here. And I understand Rivera took the job, but to an extent he has as well. Snyder selected a developmental QB to a lame duck regime with a first round draft choice that reportedly went against the scouts. That is toxic. Haskins wasn’t a cant miss prospect that you couldn’t pass on. He wasn’t Andrew Luck. If Snyder really wanted to draft Haskins, Gruden and Allen should have been removed prior to the 2019 draft and the new GM/HC on board with the move. Then the guy is supported and MAYBE we don’t see such negativity in his body language and the way he carries himself. And he may be performing better. But that’s not what Snyder did. I understand people being frustrated but I think their ire is pointed at the wrong dude. It’s not Rivera. It’s Snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said: Off the top of my head? Drew Brees. You're going to compare Drew Brees early career to what we've seen from haskins so far? That's pretty desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.