FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[volsmet]

1 minute ago, ClaytoAli said:

Just remembering how we could have had Wilson

We could have traded for him this offseason.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, mhd24 said:

 

If the OC is scheming guys wide open and Haskins can't hit it, than its on Haskins and not the OC.  I thought Scott Turner called an outstanding game against Cleveland.  He had people running wide open.  Haskins couldn't hit them despite looking at it on the field.  Seriously listen to the Cooley film breakdown I posted.  He generously gave him a D when he said it was an F performance.  

 

Thanks.  That was interesting, I focused mostly on the non-Haskins stuff, because I thought he was a bit too generous with some of the better plays Haskins had.

 

TL;DL for everyone else:

He liked both of the OT's.  Liked Christian and thought he was a pleasant surprise against Myles Garrett.  Loved Moses, thought he was phenomenal.  Thought Wes Martin was solid.  Roullier was good.  Schweitzer was generally good but struggles a bit when having to move quickly. 

 

Thinks the 5 best offensive skill players need to be on the field more often together.  McLaurin, Gibson, McKissic, Inman...and I'm blanking on if he thinks it's Sims or Thomas after that.  He wants more 2 RB sets with both Gibson and McKissic on the field together.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

JC knew he was a fraud and did everything he could to disguise it to prolong his career. DH genuinely thinks he’s the man and he’s already arrived. DH is not throwing it underneath on 3rd and long and padding trash time stats. So even though I think he’s a better player than JC, his career will be much shorter in my opinion.
 

His inability to take criticism is his undoing. Dude is too about himself. Even Brady took hard coaching last year from Bellichick. I don’t think denying he stared down his receivers sat well with Ron. 

Here were the problems with JC:

 

1. He had the slowest delivery of any QB I've every seen except for Byron Leftwhich, who had a windup which brought the ball all the way down to his knee.  JC wasn't that bad, but he had a loopy delivery, and the ball was often late.

2. He was very slow processing information.  He didn't do a good job throwing with anticipation.  He had to wait for a guy to be open and then throw the ball.  That combined with a slow delivery meant balls were always late, and when he did have a receiver open, the defense had time to recover by the time the ball got there.  He was the opposite of throwing guys open, he threw guys covered.

3. The further he got on in his career here, the less likely he was to pull the trigger deep.  Mostly likely because he rarely got completions because of #1 and #2. So he kept checking the ball down.  

4. He was the definition of un-clutch.  When you needed a play, you didn't get the play. I always felt JC lacked intensity and killer instinct.  I'm sure he was competitive, but he wasn't that "I'm going to bust through a wall and rip your throat out" type of competitor.  

 

All that said, for his last 2 years, he had the single most inept offensive system in the history of the world under Zorn.  That's not to excuse JC's play.  But if you put Joe Montana with Zorn, he would have struggled to win more than a few games.  

 

Contrasting him to Haskins, there are a few things Haskins already does better.  

1. His release and arm strength are MUCH better.  He gets the ball out quicker, and he has a legitimate top-end arm. 

2. He is not afraid to try and make a play.  He'll pull the trigger and try and get the ball down field.  He knows when you need a play, and he'll try and make the play.  

3. He throws with better anticipation than JC ever did.

 

There are a couple of things I think are worse:

1. His mechanics are just a complete mess.  He doesn't drive off of his back foot, he throws from an open position.  This leads to total inaccuracy.  Even when he does throw the ball to the right guy, it's 50/50 on if the ball will be accurate.

2. Partially because of his mechanics, he can't throw while moving to his right.  He likes to throw from an open position, so that's easier when he's moving left.

3. He doesn't move in the pocket real well, and instead of just side-stepping pressure, he sortof just bails to his left and is then stuck.  He's getting good protection at times, but he doesn't use the pocket well.

 

The problem is, however, can he fix his mechanics, which would lead to better accuracy?  I have no idea.  He definitely would have benefited from an off-season with OTAs and mini-camps, working solely on mechanics, footwork, etc. with Zampese and Turner.  He didn't get that luxury. 

 

But I have no idea if he can develop.

 

I still think calling it quits on any QB after 11 starts is massively foolish. For any QB in any situation.  I have my reservations about Haskins.  I put in another thread, if I had 100 chips, I'd put:

 

40 chips: Dwayne is not on the team in 2021. New vet or high draft pick is starting.  

40 chips: Dwayne is on the team, and there is an honest to God QB competition between him and another vet not named Kyle Allen.

20 chips: Dwayne is the named starter going into camp.  

 

That's 80% chance next year Haskins is either not around, or possibly a backup.  

[Cooleyfan1993]

17 minutes ago, volsmet said:

We could have traded for him this offseason.

,....Russell wilson? Why would the Seahawks trade him ANYWHERE? (If that’s who you’re talking about)

[ExoDus84]

20 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said:

Just remembering how we could have had Wilson

 

Meh. Pointless to ever think "what if". 32 teams passed on him for 3 full rounds.

 

If scouting was easy, every team would be championship caliber.

[CommanderInTheRye]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Here were the problems with JC:

 

1. He had the slowest delivery of any QB I've every seen except for Byron Leftwhich, who had a windup which brought the ball all the way down to his knee.  JC wasn't that bad, but he had a loopy delivery, and the ball was often late.

2. He was very slow processing information.  He didn't do a good job throwing with anticipation.  He had to wait for a guy to be open and then throw the ball.  That combined with a slow delivery meant balls were always late, and when he did have a receiver open, the defense had time to recover by the time the ball got there.  He was the opposite of throwing guys open, he threw guys covered.

3. The further he got on in his career here, the less likely he was to pull the trigger deep.  Mostly likely because he rarely got completions because of #1 and #2. So he kept checking the ball down.  

4. He was the definition of un-clutch.  When you needed a play, you didn't get the play. I always felt JC lacked intensity and killer instinct.  I'm sure he was competitive, but he wasn't that "I'm going to bust through a wall and rip your throat out" type of competitor.  

 

All that said, for his last 2 years, he had the single most inept offensive system in the history of the world under Zorn.  That's not to excuse JC's play.  But if you put Joe Montana with Zorn, he would have struggled to win more than a few games.  

 

Contrasting him to Haskins, there are a few things Haskins already does better.  

1. His release and arm strength are MUCH better.  He gets the ball out quicker, and he has a legitimate top-end arm. 

2. He is not afraid to try and make a play.  He'll pull the trigger and try and get the ball down field.  He knows when you need a play, and he'll try and make the play.  

3. He throws with better anticipation than JC ever did.

 

There are a couple of things I think are worse:

1. His mechanics are just a complete mess.  He doesn't drive off of his back foot, he throws from an open position.  This leads to total inaccuracy.  Even when he does throw the ball to the right guy, it's 50/50 on if the ball will be accurate.

2. Partially because of his mechanics, he can't throw while moving to his right.  He likes to throw from an open position, so that's easier when he's moving left.

3. He doesn't move in the pocket real well, and instead of just side-stepping pressure, he sortof just bails to his left and is then stuck.  He's getting good protection at times, but he doesn't use the pocket well.

 

The problem is, however, can he fix his mechanics, which would lead to better accuracy?  I have no idea.  He definitely would have benefited from an off-season with OTAs and mini-camps, working solely on mechanics, footwork, etc. with Zampese and Turner.  He didn't get that luxury. 

 

But I have no idea if he can develop.

 

I still think calling it quits on any QB after 11 starts is massively foolish. For any QB in any situation.  I have my reservations about Haskins.  I put in another thread, if I had 100 chips, I'd put:

 

40 chips: Dwayne is not on the team in 2021. New vet or high draft pick is starting.  

40 chips: Dwayne is on the team, and there is an honest to God QB competition between him and another vet not named Kyle Allen.

20 chips: Dwayne is the named starter going into camp.  

 

That's 80% chance next year Haskins is either not around, or possibly a backup.  

 

 

I am honestly amazed that you can remember with such precise detail the specifics of Jason’s game.

 

Most days I can’t even remember what I had for dinner last night.

[volsmet]

7 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

,....Russell wilson? Why would the Seahawks trade him ANYWHERE? (If that’s who you’re talking about)

Not sure why, but they’ve made him available several times, including over the past offseason. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

Just now, volsmet said:

Not sure why, but they’ve made him available several times, including over the past offseason. 

Wow. They’re stupid if they’d even think about trading him. 

[volsmet]

8 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

Meh. Pointless to ever think "what if". 32 teams passed on him for 3 full rounds.

 

If scouting was easy, every team would be championship caliber.

NE & Seattle routinely have atrocious drafts. 

[CobraCommander]

1 minute ago, volsmet said:

Not sure why, but they’ve made him available several times, including over the past offseason. 

They probably expect a ridiculous haul of picks in exchange. 

[ExoDus84]

Just now, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Wow. They’re stupid if they’d even think about trading him. 

 

He's messing with you.

[volsmet]

Just now, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Wow. They’re stupid if they’d even think about trading him. 

I imagine he’s only in Seattle still because they were asking for an insane return. I have no idea what that return was, but they aren’t bashful about their ability to build a winner in Seattle. 

1 minute ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

He's messing with you.

Not at all.

[Cooleyfan1993]

1 minute ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

He's messing with you.

So you’re saying it’s just a coincidence that others such as @Florgon79 are falling for it as well...? 
 

 

[volsmet]

Of course, Wilson has to approve of the destination, and we probably aren’t on the list of teams he’d approve a trade to. That clause exists because Seattle included Wilson in trade discussion so frequently. 

Just now, Cooleyfan1993 said:

So you’re saying it’s just a coincidence that others such as @Florgon79 are falling for it as well...? 
 

 

Seattle tried trading him to the Browns, but the Browns wanted Mayfield. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

15 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Of course, Wilson has to approve of the destination, and we probably aren’t on the list of teams he’d approve a trade to. That clause exists because Seattle included Wilson in trade discussion so frequently. 

Seattle tried trading him to the Browns, but the Browns wanted Mayfield. 

You are either messing with people or you really don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[Cooleyfan1993]

4 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

You are either messing with people or you really don't know what the hell you're talking about.

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/rumor-did-the-seattle-seahawks-try-to-trade-russell-wilson-to-cleveland-browns
 

that could be what he’s referring to. I didnt read the whole thing so i dont know how much of it, if any, is true. It’s possible @volsmet just believes everything he reads. Who knows 😂

[wit33]

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

You can, unquestionably, win with a below average qb. 

Would not be at all surprised to see the Skins win with Allen at QB. It does help if the team with the average QB doesn’t have 20 plus million dedicated to the third string QB. s I’ve said to you a few times, I’ve been pounding this point home for 5 years. 

 

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

I don’t dismiss Kyle, I love cheap QBs who have played well enough to win on terrible rosters. 

 
My belief is the Patriots will trail-blaze this path over the next few years while drafting young guys until one hits on a rookie deal. They struck gold in year 1 of this experiment it appears. League minimum for a top 10-15 guy who can win games for you as well. Imagine a Sam Darnold falling into their laps next year on a league minimum lol

[volsmet]

50 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

 

 

Thinks the 5 best offensive skill players need to be on the field more often together.  McLaurin, Gibson, McKissic, Inman...and I'm blanking on if he thinks it's Sims or Thomas after that.  He wants more 2 RB sets with both Gibson and McKissic on the field together.

3rd down backs, the secret to the Patriots offensive success. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

38 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

I am honestly amazed that you can remember with such precise detail the specifics of Jason’s game.

 

Most days I can’t even remember what I had for dinner last night.

I had MANY conversations about JC.  
 

too many really for a bad QB.

[volsmet]

15 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

You are either messing with people or you really don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Well, I have had family with the Browns for a decade, including then and multiple family members there right now. 
 

Option C

Oops

14 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/rumor-did-the-seattle-seahawks-try-to-trade-russell-wilson-to-cleveland-browns
 

that could be what he’s referring to. I didnt read the whole thing so i dont know how much of it, if any, is true. It’s possible @volsmet just believes everything he reads. Who knows 😂

Or, I just talk to humans who work for the Browns. One of those things.

[Cooleyfan1993]

2 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Or, I just talk to humans who work for the Browns. One of those things.

I meant that last part in humor, i wasnt In any way claiming that you actually believe everything you read 😂

[volsmet]

You clever guys ever watch the movie draft day? Megan Rogers is my cousin. Hope you guys enjoyed the film. 
 

 

 

1 minute ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I meant that last part in humor, i wasnt In any way claiming that you actually believe everything you read 😂

Mean what you say, Cooley. This is a message board, it’s life or banishment on these streets. 

[kingdaddy]

41 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Not sure why, but they’ve made him available several times, including over the past offseason. 

I have watched NFL media guys, one in particular who's name escapes me, say that it is all but a foregone conclusion that Russel Wilson will not re-sign with the Seahawks and the reason given is that he wants to be used more to his strengths than what Pete Carrol has been willing to do. This year you'd be hard pressed to believe this because it looks to me like RW is tearing it up and IS the focal point of the offense. But I do think the Wilson trade rumors are somewhat because his agent has let Seattle know that he won't re-sign there if they don't use his skills more as opposed to running the ball like Carroll likes to do. Take that for what it's worth but the media guy I saw late this summer said he was certain that RW would not finish his career in Seattle.

[volsmet]

Familia, he doesn’t post here, but he’s got some sources with the Browns.

 

 

On 6/7/2020 at 8:31 PM, volsmet said:

Uncle Kevin hired by the Browns today, adjust your nfl props accordingly.

A week later, the media covering the Browns knew what they ES had been told.

 

[skinfan2k]

6 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I have watched NFL media guys, one in particular who's name escapes me, say that it is all but a foregone conclusion that Russel Wilson will not re-sign with the Seahawks and the reason given is that he wants to be used more to his strengths than what Pete Carrol has been willing to do. This year you'd be hard pressed to believe this because it looks to me like RW is tearing it up and IS the focal point of the offense. But I do think the Wilson trade rumors are somewhat because his agent has let Seattle know that he won't re-sign there if they don't use his skills more as opposed to running the ball like Carroll likes to do. Take that for what it's worth but the media guy I saw late this summer said he was certain that RW would not finish his career in Seattle.

I don't think any high profile QB will ever finish off their career where they start.  Those QBs will simply get paid based on name recognition in their later years regardless of stats and outcome.  Manning, Brady, Favre.  It's going to happen with AROD.